jhb31

Driving a manual is a lost art among many. My mom drove plenty as my wife has as well. Daughter has no desire. I enjoyed many manual trans over the years but for an every day driver todays automatics are pretty good to the point if you have the HP and the trans is properly mated with it, it's hard to find a fault (TLX zf excluded). Will be interesting if the type-S has to be in a sport plus mode to get a good response.

fiatlux

Speaking of the M340i, I was able to snag an M440i loaner for the weekend, bucktooth grill and all. I've driven the G20 M340xi before, and the F32 440i, but never the new G22. The B58 is as good as a I remember it, and the already minimal turbo lag is now almost non-existent. I didn't realize until I got home and checked the specs that I found out it now has a 48V mild-hybrid setup. I wouldn't have thought the extra 11hp would be noticable, but it really is.

Most importantly...I think the regular TLX is actually more dynamic to drive. I don't know what BMW has been doing, but the way it handles just doesn't feel as direct and connencted as before. I would not be surprised if the Type S winds up supplanting the BMW as being the more dynamic "driver's car", even if there's no way the powertrain will be able to compare.

Haven't had a chance to try out launch control, and I've mentioned in the past that 0-60 numbers don't interest me as much as real world acceleration (i.e. acceleation while already in motion), but even I'm curious to see what the launch control on this AWD model is like.

I'm also not a big fan of the interior; it looks more futuristic and modern and the materials feels good, but it just feels cold and sterile and all business. Subjective, I know, but I prefer the TLX interior. Reminds me of a cockpit, and the only knock I have is the stupidily large drive mode dial and the lack of a full digital dash.

Shield your eyes, she's a bit of a butterface

Mak P

I saw a 4 series with the grill for the 1st time today. The grill isn't THAT bad, but I'm definitely not buying a beamer with it.... so I hope they don't add it to the 5 series which I'm eyeing along with this TLX

FactoryMatt

Thanks for the comparo. this is good. beemer motors are stronger than ever, but i think they've lost the plot as the ultimate DRIVING machine.

loki

Embargoed...do they really think the automotive world has stopped spinning and is holding their breath? Ridiculous.

The hype on this forum amongst us, 30 people at best doesn't constitute any sort of reliable data about actual interest in the car.

FactoryMatt

they probably want to save the last of the hype for when folks can actually place orders on the car. makes sense.

iutodd

Basically every automaker embargoes the “first drive” write ups. Honda for sure does it for everyone vehicle - why do you think first drive write ups always show up on the same day across every site?

bilirubin

I swear we had this discussion on embargoes when the 2.0T TLX came out, when the Civic Type R came out, when the RDX came out, when the G1 TLX came out.

Do people not really know that a review embargo is a very common practice? Not just in cars but in other industries too (eg. movies, music albums, phones, etc).

nist7

I do see your point @fiatlux

Though I could also say that people who can afford 50-100k sport sedans likely can also afford a beater suv/van/truck to transport larger items...not to mention potential damage to interior when trying to fit a large item in an expensive car's interior.

But again it is a fair point and some people may only have parking for one car

fiatlux

To the point about parking, if we consider that a fair amount of people who would buy a car like this are relatively young (and let’s face if, anyone older probably has kids and as discussed ad nauseum this car is not ideal for families) they likely also live in places with just one parking spot.

nist7

Possible..but again if someone who is young and can afford such a luxury item with a price tag of $50k-100k+....they could be making good income and while this year's real estate market is absolutely insane..in more sane years it is not uncommon to see younger folks with nice homes or townhomes or a rental property that has 2 or more parking spots. (Obviously certain VCHOL areas notwithstanding)

My apartment complex charges $95/mo for a 1-car garage per month and $20/mo for a covered car parking...and there's tons of free uncovered parking spots....one can easily keep the nice car in a garage/covered spot and have a beater truck/suv either parked for free or $20/mo extra for slightly more protection.

In the end this thread is playing out as it always has...those who are fans of the TLX-S are going to minimize the downsides and those who are not fans are going to raise and point to every potential flaw.

Not sure if this dynamic plays out in other car forums but for the TLX on AZine is particular interesting to observe.

Kense

Thanks for the write up but there is no way you can really think this lol

fiatlux

I do. I know it sounds surprising but have you’d driven the G20 or G22 BMWs? The EP steering just feels so artificial compared to the good ol’ hydraulic steering they used to use.

Also let me be clear; I’m not saying the TLX handles better, just that to me the steering feel feels better and more direct. Also the braking feel on the TLX feels really good; the electro-servo brakes I gave them crap about initially actually is pretty great.

Kense

I have a ‘21 G20 and I’ve gotten a TLX loaner when my MDX was in for service . The TLX feels like a floaty boat. The steering on the G20/22 is vastly improved from the previous F series and has been noted as being pretty good by everyone who has reviewed the car. It’s not old school BMW raw but it’s pretty damn good.

BEAR-AvHistory

Have driven the 2021 M440i in AutoX & will disagree with you.



Steering was precise in hitting the apex everytime & quick in responding to input. First laps were a little slow as we were not allowed to walk the course like in a regular AutoX. Speeds picked up quickly as we were able to pick out the best breaking zone. They did provide Cliff Notes by putting a red cone at each turns apex. Anyone who has driven an AutoX knows you are always looking down the course not at the current turn so the cones were a big help on an unknown course.

Lots of guys complain about the electric steering & think the hydraulic steering gives road feel. Its just different than hydraulic which is also artificial. What's interesting is I have a BMW 2013 135is MT before BMW "lost its way" An electric steering BMW Z4 M40i 8ZF after BMW "lost its way". Finally the COBRA with manual steering "The Way". The only one that lets you feel the pebbles in the road is the COBRA. The others are all interpretations of what road feel is supposed to feel like. Have no issues driving them back to back quickly as far as the steering goes. So like it some don't but the end result is according to C&D at the Lighting Laps M340 test.

"Years of testing BMW 3 and 4 series allow us to measure the pace of evolution through generational comparison. For example, the M340i arrives at the Turn 1 braking zone traveling 142.3 mph, a mere 2.4 mph shy of the 425-hp M4's speed. And the 340iM's 3:03.2 lap is 10.0 seconds quicker than that of the last-gen 2012 BMW 335i Sport Line and just 2.5 seconds off the M4's time"

The M440 has not done LL yet but should be in this years. If Acura can get the Type-S out the door in time it should also be in it. Hopefully both will do well. Its been posted in the October issue every year but is run at VIR in the spring.

CaliAtenza

I'm torn between picking up the outgoing C43 AMG (which apparently has one more run left in it for 2022, as the redesign will be a 2023 model in the US, with a 4 banger ) or looking at the Type S. The C43 is just so good, even if it isn't a "real AMG"....

ELIN

What makes it not a "real AMG"?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

MB has created a tiered system within their models..
you have extra low, low, medium, high.

the C43 is the extra low AMG model, or perhaps the budget friendly option.

where as before, AMG, stood for the highest most powerful MB car.

Kense

Extra low? There’s only one designation for cars like that and it’s AMG lite. There are no other tiers you’re mentioning. You either have a full on AMG or one of the AMG lite models. What would the medium or low be to make the C43 Extra low? That car is faster than 99% of cars on the road it’s not like it’s a C250 or something Mercedes feels it’s an AMG therefore it’s an AMG just a less powerful one. If the manufacturer calls the car an AMG it’s an AMG

BEAR-AvHistory

BMW does the same thing as does Audi. M340 is not an M3 & the M440 is not a M4. They have a number of "M" parts from the "pure M cars" but not the big power engines. Top M4XX is 382BHP the M4 is 473BHP & 502BHP. MB does the same with the AMG line vs the AMG. Audi has the S series & the RS series.

Typical Auto industry BS marketing. My Z4 trunk has

on it. Thing is there is no true MZ model. Lots of guy who are embarrassed by that remove all the logos.

fiatlux

I took a quick cursory look at some of the other reviews of the M340i and M440i and it looks like most of them also complain about the numb steering, so I’m not the only one to feel that way about it. If you feel so strongly about them being wrong, feel free to send them all an email explaining how they need to go to an AutoX before they’re credible enough to have a valid opinion about it. In any case, you don’t need to go on a track to discover that the steering isn’t really communicative, which has nothing to do with turn-in and responsiveness. Just get the front wheels a bit loose and it’s clearly obvious that the steering wheel isn’t telling you much about what the front wheels are doing. Admittedly, things like steering feel shouldn’t really affect track times or performance, but IMO it does affect enjoyment. If track times mattered the M3/M4 is the correct choice anyways, not the faux-M cars.

sonyfever

Perhaps fiatlux was referring to 330 variants? I feel there are some differences between M340 and 330 steering feedback - 330 feels more like a slick luxury sedan, while M340 has a bit more feedback probably due to stiffer bushing/suspension. I second that G20 steering feedback is just fine, as long as your reference is not hydraulic unit or Porsche and above. On M340 it is pretty close to F80 M3 I feel.

sonyfever

It is standard practice in the industry, I am not sure why you need to vent about every move from Acura. Even having racing driver leading a track test is pretty standard, especially when the group last week obviously included a bunch of YouTubers who don't necessarily have the skills to push the car safely to and beyond the limits. Laguna Seca is pretty technical, a slight mistake could ruin the schedule. If someone is so interested in the car, he or she can wait.

BEAR-AvHistory

You are 100% wrong about this. Have run the M340 & M3 on the 300ft Skid Pad at the BMW track in Greer, SC. As you approach & enter understeer there is enough vibration in the steering wheel to wake the brain dead. Its how they teach you to recognize & react to understeer. Same guys are constantly whining about the MT dying & saying the C8 Corvette did not handle well until they discovered a mid engine car handles differently than their Civics,

BTW its not a case of feeling strongly about it its a case of having done in in person, vid is an a M3 follow the leader run. Daughter is holding the phone for the vid, she drove next.

Managing built in BMW understeer with steering wheel feed back at 0.50. No feedback no control.

CaliAtenza

So the reason I put it in quotes is that a lot of AMG fanboys online seem to think the 35, 43 and 53 models are not real AMG cars because the engines are not built by the "one man, one engine" philosophy. Frankly, if MB and AMG say it's an AMG, it's an AMG to me. I don't care that it's AMG lite or whatever.

CaliAtenza

There isn't an extra-low model. It's just AMG and AMG lite....

CaliAtenza

Honestly though, in day to day use, where 99.9% of these cars spend their time, there is more than enough power and handling to embarrass most anything on the road. The AMG lite, S, and M performance models are actually a little too much car for the vast majority of folks. I drove an M340i without the M adaptive suspension and it was a little too wild for me. I felt more much confident with the C43 and S5 Sportback/Coupe.

BEAR-AvHistory

I expect if he does not understand that the M340 at Lighting Laps Laps came in within 2.5 seconds or so of a the 425BHP M3 a car that will destroy it on the long uphill straight there as well as the shorter straight it must get around the turns pretty well. Its a long track at 4.2 miles so a very fast car has a lot of built in advantage that needs to be made up by a slower car if it can in the turns.

fiatlux

Mine must be broken then because what you described is definitely not what I’m experiencing. Either that or the 5G microchips in the vaccine is affecting the nerves in my arms

In any case, as a public service I still think you should write to MT and C&D to let them know that their writers are being very unfair to BMW when they criticize it for numb steering.

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree only a moron would drive any of these cars at 10/10 even the 4 cylinder TLX. Its all about bragging rights & living vicariously within the potential of the cars we drive. Its fun to debate but at the end of the day only a very few of us will ever drive any of the cars on a track or in any kind of competition.

That said even for daily driving its a big mistake to buy a performance car without adaptive suspension. I even have it in my Suburban RST which is basically a 3 ton Corvette. When I make long runs in either the Z4 or Suburban I run the suspension in adaptive mode & let the car/truck decide what's is best real time based on the roads contrition & what I am doing in the drivers seat. The adaptive mode ties into the BMW navigation system to get some of its input. Never looked to see if the Chevy does the same thing.

BEAR-AvHistory

In your particular case maybe you are just to slow.

If the M340/M4 steering wheel does not vibrate at understeer how am I controlling the drift in the vid, Devine intervention? As for the magazine writers Road & Track crowned the Veloster N the Performance Car of the Year because according to them is what a great front-wheel-drive car should FEEL like. So don't buy that Porsche get the Veloster N because Road & Track said so.

Modern writers are real big on Feelings. The only thing the magazines are good for are the hard stats & Lightning Laps. How many cars have lost a multi-car test where they beat all the other cars in quantitative data and lost the whole test based on qualitative datathe subjective FEELINGS section.

fiatlux

You just made my point for me. Unless you’re dead set on setting lap times, a car that “feels” better is indeed the better car to drive. Sounds to me like you care more about the quantitative metrics, in which case more power to you, but if the faster car doesn’t feel as fun to me, then I’m just wasting my money on it.

evo9

There is dig at Hyundai/Kia in this video.

BEAR-AvHistory

Did you order your Veloster N yet best feeling performance car in the United States? Should be slow enough for you to get all the "Good Vibrations" out of the steering wheel They might even throw in a Beach Boys song.

fiatlux

Fortunately for me I (hopefully) still have plenty of time to enjoy driving cars based on how they feel to me. Maybe in another 40 years I too will feel the pressures of time and instead derive satisfaction from the car specs rather than the experience of driving the car. Until then I’ll continue to decide on what car I like based on how I like the way it drives, and not based on how someone else likes it.

BEAR-AvHistory

Maybe the Stinger GT is the $50,000 benchmark.

BEAR-AvHistory

Feels to you? Thought you were all in on how the YouTube guys & magazine writers felt about how a car feelings since you have self described numb arms. Terrible thing to happen to a inexperienced kid. So just continue take it slow & the issue should cause you no problems with understeer correction that you have never felt.

Actually I only buy cars I like & I do so like quick well handling cars like the 3/4 & Z series & of course my COBRA which recalls the days before electronic & hydraulic intervention.

Expect the Type-S will turn out pretty well but honestly can't ever come close to agreeing with you that it will give the M340 a hard time at the track.

Despite your new found love of feelings you did make that performance statement didn't you?

sonyfever

+1, I would be driving a m340 now if there was a car on the lot with adaptive dampers. The standard one is wayyy too stiff IMHO.

fiatlux

Hm, did I say anything about the Type S being competitive with the M340i at the track? Funny, I can't find that anywhere. Maybe the 5G's are affecting my brain too

Come on Kevin, you're better than that. Isn't putting words into people's mouths more of a Tony thing?

sonyfever

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