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I look at the side-view 2G TLX pics and wonder how Honda/Acura engineers got so much front overhang with the 2G TLX. I strongly suspect it's a transverse mounted V6 (last longitudinal powertrain FWD Acura was the 2G Legend).
So the front wheels look pretty far forward for a transverse FWD motor/transaxle. I'm guessing two solutions
1) Modern traditional Honda/Acura (engine on the right, transaxle on the left been that way for the past couple decades) with the engine rotated backwards to provide a low hood line and move the Cg to the rear. This would have the driveshafts behind the engine block.
2) Less likely but put the engine block behind the driveshafts, this would move the engine to the rear. Would require a new transaxle case or perhaps reverse the layout (can't see that happening). I'd imagine Honda/Acura want the same transaxle arrangement for both the 2.0T and 3.0T to make it easier on production engineering
Either way, the hoodline is pretty low and overhang fairly big for a V6 to be mounted in front of the driveshafts and not rotated to relocated.
Never seen a pic but Honda put the C25 V6 into a 2G Prelude, apparently the packaging was very tight.
When I was looking to buy the 3rd gen TL, I had made a post here and asked for some advice. I was surprised how many had maxima's and were part of maxima.org. The biggest issue I had with the maxima community, was when I got the TL, a lot of the maxima members "disowned" me. Most of which I had met in person from various meets. All of a sudden I was a nobody to them and became this honda boy. This crap still happens today unfortunately.
So true they get very defensive there over the Maxima. A few members on there are considering the next gen TLX now that Nissan has pretty much abandoned the Maxima for the Altima and Sentra. I just dumped 2k on my 2013 Acura TL for timing belt and other maintenance. When my fiance's Maxima decides to die finally I'll pass the TL to her and move on to a TLX Type S. Crazy thing is so far her engine and CVT transmission have been extremely reliable. The CVT in the 6G is chained driven which is why I think it doesn't have the same failure rate as the Altima and Rouge.
Regarding the back and forth between Bear and 4G, I will say that the 4G was never in the conversation (versus its competitors) in any substantial way but it was an underrated performer; particularly the SH-AWD model with Summer tires which bumped up grip and braking performance (the former to .92g)
One of the gripes about the 4G other than the controversial styling was the size....it was simply too big for many....for us owners that appreciated the added comfort and room was like owning a 535i at discounted price.
For others that criticized the straight line performance and Bear which mentions how the 3G was more "competitive" than the 4G, one thing happened between the 3G and the 4G.....advanced turbocharging, a route that Acura and other Japanese decided not to take at that time. A 4G of his liking styling wise with the same J37 engine would have produced the same results, the 335i, considered the benchmark in the segment, was simply too fast off the line (and quite smaller and lighter, let's remember that the 4G was 5 Series big)...however in handling the 4G SH-AWD was much closer in effectiveness to a 3 Series than a 3G ever was, something obviously he will never admit.
I bought my 4G one night in winter and on my first drive the next day I got my first compliment (maybe the black color did help who knows) and I kept receiving compliments more than any "normal" car I ever owned. All well placed paid shills by Acura I guess...
One of the gripes about the 4G other than the controversial styling was the size....it was simply too big for many....for us owners that appreciated the added comfort and room was like owning a 535i at discounted prices
It really is. You pull up in a 4G Acura TL and you'll still get strong looks. Heck I went to wash my car this morning and saw a 2019 Acura TLX Aspec owner admiring my car.
I bought my 4G one night in winter and on my first drive the next day I got my first compliment (maybe the black color did help who knows) and I kept receiving compliments more than any "normal" car I ever owned. All well placed paid shills by Acura I guess...
Some people also find exceedingly ugly dogs to be cute as well. Doesn’t mean the majority think they look good.
I look at the side-view 2G TLX pics and wonder how Honda/Acura engineers got so much front overhang with the 2G TLX. I strongly suspect it's a transverse mounted V6 (last longitudinal powertrain FWD Acura was the 2G Legend).
So the front wheels look pretty far forward for a transverse FWD motor/transaxle. I'm guessing two solutions
1) Modern traditional Honda/Acura (engine on the right, transaxle on the left been that way for the past couple decades) with the engine rotated backwards to provide a low hood line and move the Cg to the rear. This would have the driveshafts behind the engine block.
2) Less likely but put the engine block behind the driveshafts, this would move the engine to the rear. Would require a new transaxle case or perhaps reverse the layout (can't see that happening). I'd imagine Honda/Acura want the same transaxle arrangement for both the 2.0T and 3.0T to make it easier on production engineering
Either way, the hoodline is pretty low and overhang fairly big for a V6 to be mounted in front of the driveshafts and not rotated to relocated.
Never seen a pic but Honda put the C25 V6 into a 2G Prelude, apparently the packaging was very tight.
I'm a bit baffled since you're a die hard Acura fan.. The TLX 2.0T will have nearly the exact setup as the RDX (engine with AWD setup). The layout will 100% be transverse. The V6 isn't a big engine, it's a 3.0 with a single twin scroll turbo. If you pause the video at 8:30 you see the driveshaft going to the rear diff. Drive axles are still going to the front so you already have an idea of where the engine and transmission are going to sit. The front end is longer to accommodate the front inter-cooler for the turbo and other reasons. If you pause the video at 8:00, you will see the unibody design. Look at the strut towers, bracing and firewall. The engine and transmission will not sit behind the front drive axles but more in line and forward. Attached is a picture of the RDX 2.0T drive-terrain setup. Imagine that on the new TLX. The 3.0T has the turbo sitting on the front head. Also attached is the leaked photo of the new TLX 2.0T
It really is. You pull up in a 4G Acura TL and you'll still get strong looks.
Yes that is a big mystery to me.....everybody saying it was ugly but I got quite few compliments. When I traded my 4G SH-AWD 6MT it was sold in 3 days by the dealership....
I know personally of two cases of missing 4G sales because of the lack of folding rear seat and smallish trunk....it had nothing to do with styling...
Yes that is a big mystery to me.....everybody saying it was ugly but I got quite few compliments. When I traded my 4G SH-AWD 6MT it was sold in 3 days by the dealership....
I know personally of two cases of missing 4G sales because of the lack of folding rear seat and smallish trunk....it had nothing to do with styling...
Just don't join any 3rd gen TL Facebook groups.. The dislike of the 4th gen TL is fierce. The memes are the best
Yes that is a big mystery to me.....everybody saying it was ugly but I got quite few compliments. When I traded my 4G SH-AWD 6MT it was sold in 3 days by the dealership....
I know personally of two cases of missing 4G sales because of the lack of folding rear seat and smallish trunk....it had nothing to do with styling...
I have to admit that not having a folding seat is annoying after I sold my 2007 Honda Civic Coupe that had them. Funny thing is my 4th Gen Maxima didn't have folding seats but my fiance's 6th Gen Maxima has them and her trunk is massive in size. The refresh in 2012-2014 for the 4G fixed a lot of exterior complaints.
Some of them had me rolling
What kills me the most, they act as if they own pristine condition 3rd gen TL's.. Have you seen a dumpster on wheels?
Lol I've seen some bad ones over here in CT on the road. We have a lot of ricers out here. So you'll see them with big gold or red rims. Paint clear coat totally destroyed or a black one with swirls and armor all shine.
I'm a bit baffled since you're a die hard Acura fan.. The TLX 2.0T will have nearly the exact setup as the RDX (engine with AWD setup). The layout will 100% be transverse. The V6 isn't a big engine, it's a 3.0 with a single twin scroll turbo. If you pause the video at 8:30 you see the driveshaft going to the rear diff. Drive axles are still going to the front so you already have an idea of where the engine and transmission are going to sit. The front end is longer to accommodate the front inter-cooler for the turbo and other reasons. If you pause the video at 8:00, you will see the unibody design. Look at the strut towers, bracing and firewall. The engine and transmission will not sit behind the front drive axles but more in line and forward. Attached is a picture of the RDX 2.0T drive-terrain setup. Imagine that on the new TLX. The 3.0T has the turbo sitting on the front head. Also attached is the leaked photo of the new TLX 2.0T
You're confusing the rear prop shaft with the front driveshafts (or halfshafts as some call them). I was talking about the front driveshafts location with The RDX engine bay is probably much taller view and the K20 is probably a easy fit from a height and depth point of view.
Probably only the width gives any issue.
The 2G TLX appears to hang a shorter front wheel overhang than the previous TLX or say my 3G TL. I'm curious how that was achieved with a low hoodline and relatively short front overhang. If the front driveshafts are behind the motor then it causes the motor to be physically moved forward.
There are some mechanical engineering tricks that can be played. the 2G Prelude rotated the engine forward to lower the hoodline while the 3G Prelude rotated the engine rearward to lower the hoodline and bring the Cg to the rear more.
A V6 has more cumbersome engine bay packing than a 4 since the V increases the width of the engine as in a transverse application it means the engine bay has to be longer to accommodate the necessary ancillaries (exhaust packaging which is more difficult as now a turbo).
The V6 does help out with the height as it's reduced.
Lol I've seen some bad ones over here in CT on the road. We have a lot of ricers out here. So you'll see them with big gold or red rims. Paint clear coat totally destroyed or a black one with swirls and armor all shine.
Not much different from the ones here in NJ. I have custom candy gold pearl WORKS on my TL. I took my paper weight err.. TL out for a photo shoot yesterday. I still can't believe how incredible my TL looks for a 16 year old car. My paint is original except for the front bumper (I did the conversion). It's a shame to see what has become of these vehicles. My interior is also flawless minus the headliner because it's starting to sag in two spots. Best of all, my engine bay <3
04WDPSeDaN beautiful car! I can tell you put a lot of time and money into your vehicle it truly shows in the quality of your paint and engine bay. I always wanted a clean 3G TL in either White or Black but never could find one in mint condition. I seen some destroyed interiors especially the ones with tan. This is my 4G TL. It's a FWD model Tech Package. Was hard even finding it clean out here. I've had it for nearly 4 years.
I never have passengers and it's mostly garaged kept...but my stupid headliner is coming loose, too! starts in the rear, where noone ever sits, so no one touches the ceiling. stupid acura adhesive.
04WDPSeDaN beautiful car! I can tell you put a lot of time and money into your vehicle it truly shows in the quality of your paint and engine bay. I always wanted a clean 3G TL in either White or Black but never could find one in mint condition. I seen some destroyed interiors especially the ones with tan. This is my 4G TL. It's a FWD model Tech Package. Was hard even finding it clean out here. I've had it for nearly 4 years.
Absolutely beautiful brotha! And I REALLY appreciate the kind words
Originally Posted by justnspace
I never have passengers and it's mostly garaged kept...but my stupid headliner is coming loose, too! starts in the rear, where noone ever sits, so no one touches the ceiling. stupid acura adhesive.
My TL is covered when It's not being used. I rarely have anyone in the car other than my wife. I was going to attempt to fix it myself when I only had a small spot sagging, but yesterday I noticed the other side was starting to sag as well. I checked oemacuraparts and a new headliner is nearly $1K. Not sure if buying a new OEM headliner is worth the cost considering it's on borrowed time til it happens again.
I find it funny so much dislike for the 4th Generation styling yet it's selling like crazy in the used car market now. Every car manufacturer has a hit and mess when it comes to vehicle styling. Take the Maxima for example the 5th Gen was highly loved because it was essentially an evolution of the 4th Generation and Nissan even put the VQ35DE for it's mid cycle refresh. Once the 6th Gen came out everyone would complain "Oh it's too big and boat like". But I find it funny now you even see plenty of those on the road as the 4G TL.
Agree maybe it was just ahead of its time or marking presented it badly as a sports sedan instead of a luxo-cruiser. Personalty was looking forward to the 4G already had 3 years on the 3G & got the usual for me 3 year itch. Could never get past the design so I moved on. The other issue I had was it looked to big. Size was a selling point for the marketing people but they misjudged the sports sedan sediment.
Lots of bitching on the BMW forums when the 3 series grew with the E90 versions.
Maybe a point on growth. My 135is convertible is about the same size as the 330 ZHP E46 convertible it replaced, both 4 seat cars. My 2 seat Z4 is bigger than the 135is. The last 4 series cars I had were bigger than the previous 5 series. That's why the current M240 & M2 are considered the successors to the E46 cars. I believe most performance car or sports sedan buyers do not think BIG unless its horsepower is a good thing or a major selling point.
Find it interesting that many of the mods here moved also on. Once lost its very hard to re-capture a customer.
At the very end of the day it did not sell much worse than the 1G TLX....
Actually it did. Not only did the 1G TLX outsell the 4G TL, but it had a larger market share in the entry-level luxury sedan segment. The 4G TL sold 34K the first year, the 1G TLX sold 47K. Might not seem like that much more, but in comparison the 3 series during the 4G TL's time was moving over 100K units a year. By the time the 1G TLX came around, the 3 series was selling half as many. Something something consumer shifting to crossovers. Both in terms of absolute numbers and market share, the 1G TLX beat out the 4G TL. The fact that the TLX was able to sell more than the TL even with the crossover headwinds is a sign that consumers actually preferred it more than the TL, even if enthusiasts found it to be inferior. Hard to argue with facts, but go ahead and try.
Absolutely beautiful brotha! And I REALLY appreciate the kind words
My TL is covered when It's not being used. I rarely have anyone in the car other than my wife. I was going to attempt to fix it myself when I only had a small spot sagging, but yesterday I noticed the other side was starting to sag as well. I checked oemacuraparts and a new headliner is nearly $1K. Not sure if buying a new OEM headliner is worth the cost considering it's on borrowed time til it happens again.
Thanks! Insane price! I seen the headliner sag on a co workers 2003 Honda Accord LX I never thought it would make it's way into Acura. Biggest flaw in my car is the leather. No matter how much I condition it this is happening to the driver seat.
I also live in North NJ and understand where you're coming. NJ isn't the autobahn, but there are plenty of opportunities to responsibly get on that throttle.
Used to commute Spring Lake NJ to the Jersey City Grove St PATH station way back in the last century. Things might have changed over the years but the GSP & NJTP except Friday/Monday in the summer did a good imitation of the autobahn. Cops used to set up an ambush between Newark Airport & exit 11 a lot of mornings & evenings. Interesting thing it was on the lanes opposite the commute flow. Might be having a brain fart but seem to remember 80MPH.
Thanks! Insane price! I seen the headliner sag on a co workers 2003 Honda Accord LX I never thought it would make it's way into Acura. Biggest flaw in my car is the leather. No matter how much I condition it this is happening to the driver seat.
FWIW did a DIY seat cover replacement on the FORD Expedition after one of the dogs nailed it. Was pretty warn anyway so it seemed like a good plan.
Took better part of a Saturday. Also replaced the cooler units while I had the covers off.
I look at the side-view 2G TLX pics and wonder how Honda/Acura engineers got so much front overhang with the 2G TLX. I strongly suspect it's a transverse mounted V6 (last longitudinal powertrain FWD Acura was the 2G Legend).
So the front wheels look pretty far forward for a transverse FWD motor/transaxle. I'm guessing two solutions
1) Modern traditional Honda/Acura (engine on the right, transaxle on the left been that way for the past couple decades) with the engine rotated backwards to provide a low hood line and move the Cg to the rear. This would have the driveshafts behind the engine block.
2) Less likely but put the engine block behind the driveshafts, this would move the engine to the rear. Would require a new transaxle case or perhaps reverse the layout (can't see that happening). I'd imagine Honda/Acura want the same transaxle arrangement for both the 2.0T and 3.0T to make it easier on production engineering
Either way, the hoodline is pretty low and overhang fairly big for a V6 to be mounted in front of the driveshafts and not rotated to relocated.
Never seen a pic but Honda put the C25 V6 into a 2G Prelude, apparently the packaging was very tight.
FWIW did a DIY seat cover replacement on the FORD Expedition after one of the dogs nailed it. Was pretty warn anyway so it seemed like a good plan.
Took better part of a Saturday. Also replaced the cooler units while I had the covers off.
Wow that looks amazing! I didn't know you could just buy the seat covers instead of the entire seat assembly.
You're confusing the rear prop shaft with the front driveshafts (or halfshafts as some call them). I was talking about the front driveshafts location with The RDX engine bay is probably much taller view and the K20 is probably a easy fit from a height and depth point of view.
Probably only the width gives any issue.
The 2G TLX appears to hang a shorter front wheel overhang than the previous TLX or say my 3G TL. I'm curious how that was achieved with a low hoodline and relatively short front overhang. If the front driveshafts are behind the motor then it causes the motor to be physically moved forward.
There are some mechanical engineering tricks that can be played. the 2G Prelude rotated the engine forward to lower the hoodline while the 3G Prelude rotated the engine rearward to lower the hoodline and bring the Cg to the rear more.
A V6 has more cumbersome engine bay packing than a 4 since the V increases the width of the engine as in a transverse application it means the engine bay has to be longer to accommodate the necessary ancillaries (exhaust packaging which is more difficult as now a turbo).
The V6 does help out with the height as it's reduced.
Cant remember but see it the cylinders are pure vertical of canted forward.
Wow that looks amazing! I didn't know you could just buy the seat covers instead of the entire seat assembly.
If your interested can look for my receipts. Covers are from a specialty house that does replacement seat covers & have quality leather factory duplicate replacements for most cars.
+1, my bad. The 1G RL borrowed the drivetrain config of the 2G Legend, with the transmission behind the engine which then had a output shaft that went to the differential that was under the engine oil pan.
If your interested can look for my receipts. Covers are from a specialty house that does replacement seat covers & have quality leather factory duplicate replacements for most cars.
I definitely am! I was gonna replace my driver seat cover with the oem unit but I figure it'll tear apart again.
I know this 1st hand with my tuned M40i.. 418 TQ peeking at 2800 RPM and that's power to all 4 wheels. It sure pins you in the seat and the "Shit that's fast" words come out of my mouth.
Originally Posted by Kinuto
Thanks! Insane price! I seen the headliner sag on a co workers 2003 Honda Accord LX I never thought it would make it's way into Acura. Biggest flaw in my car is the leather. No matter how much I condition it this is happening to the driver seat.
Unfortunately the vinyl ... err... LEATHER that Acura uses is garbage. I redid my interior with leatherseats.com using their 100% full leather kit. Took me three days to finish everything but my interior looks incredible! Check them out and see if they have a replacement kit for your 4th gen.
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Used to commute Spring Lake NJ to the Jersey City Grove St PATH station way back in the last century. Things might have changed over the years but the GSP & NJTP except Friday/Monday in the summer did a good imitation of the autobahn. Cops used to set up an ambush between Newark Airport & exit 11 a lot of mornings & evenings. Interesting thing it was on the lanes opposite the commute flow. Might be having a brain fart but seem to remember 80MPH.
NJ doesn't mess around with state troopers, especially on the damn parkway. Truth be told, I drive very conservative because of how the cops are in this state. To anyone driving through NJ, avoid driving above the speed limit during the last week of every month.
Actually it did. Not only did the 1G TLX outsell the 4G TL, but it had a larger market share in the entry-level luxury sedan segment. The 4G TL sold 34K the first year, the 1G TLX sold 47K. Might not seem like that much more, but in comparison the 3 series during the 4G TL's time was moving over 100K units a year. By the time the 1G TLX came around, the 3 series was selling half as many. Something something consumer shifting to crossovers. Both in terms of absolute numbers and market share, the 1G TLX beat out the 4G TL. The fact that the TLX was able to sell more than the TL even with the crossover headwinds is a sign that consumers actually preferred it more than the TL, even if enthusiasts found it to be inferior. Hard to argue with facts, but go ahead and try.
You conveniently forgot (talking about arguing with facts) that the TLX was a quite cheaper car at the low end and it did aggregate 2 sedans in one with an entry level 4 banger which the TL did not have....and on the lower end, the 4 cylinder TLX competed with the new small el cheapo FWD derived entry level premium sedans like the A3 or the CLA where the TL did not....finally, the TLX sold in a much better economy...yes arguing with facts indeed....
The combined TL + TSX in the first 2 years of their re-design debut (2009-2010 in a crappier economy) moved well over 60K pieces per year...sure there was some redundancy because the TSX had a V6 version as well....so I rest my case, the TLX (at least the TL part of the TLX proposition) did not sell that much better (actually probably worse) compared to the 4G .
You conveniently forgot (talking about arguing with facts) that the TLX was a quite cheaper car at the low end and it did aggregate 2 sedans in one with an entry level 4 banger which the TL did not have....and on the lower end 4 cylinder TLX competed with the new small el cheapo FWD derived entry level premium sedans like the A3 or the CLA where the TL did not....finally, the TLX sold in a much better economy...yes arguing with facts indeed....
someone in another thread came up with a brilliant idea!
the TLxTSX TL Bridges TSX
TLX
which also brings us back to my point I made earlier about the obsourne effect.
Big auto cant encroach their ICE sales as it's their bread and butter....by promising an EV.
these incremental updates to cars is just bridging or biding time....
Last edited by justnspace; 08-23-2020 at 02:39 PM.
Agree maybe it was just ahead of its time or marking presented it badly as a sports sedan instead of a luxo-cruiser.
It was indeed a very good sport sedan for its size....the fact that even in a specific scenario chosen by Acura was able to hang with a more powerful (and with a modern turbocharging system capable of full torque at the low end) and much lighter 335i is a good testament of how good it was...used TL SH-AWD 6MT for sale leave their owner very quickly
Unfortunately the vinyl ... err... LEATHER that Acura uses is garbage. I redid my interior with leatherseats.com using their 100% full leather kit. Took me three days to finish everything but my interior looks incredible! Check them out and see if they have a replacement kit for your 4th gen.
Yeah, that's where it finally starts to wear (on the edge/side due to enter/exit). I think heat (ie not garaged) and cleaning/conditioning (during it's whole life) plays a role also.
But reason I'm posting ...
Those new seats look AWESOME . I would never know they were not factory. Nice materials and good job on install.
INCREDIBLE! I'm certain I follow him on IG. IF it's the same owner, he has by far one of the best 4th gen's i've seen. (The guy I follow is running the Rotrex Supercharger, such a beautiful TL)
Originally Posted by Tesla1856
Yeah, that's where it finally starts to wear (on the edge/side due to enter/exit). I think heat (ie not garaged) and cleaning/conditioning (during it's whole life) plays a role also.
But reason I'm posting ...
Those new seats look AWESOME . I would never know they were not factory. Nice materials and good job on install.
Thank you very much! I appreciate the kind words. I'm still shocked that I was able to get them on as nicely as I did. For sure I won't be doing this again. My hands were beat to hell.
08-23-2020, 11:31 AM
INCREDIBLE! I'm certain I follow him on IG. IF it's the same owner, he has by far one of the best 4th gen's i've seen. (The guy I follow is running the Rotrex Supercharger, such a beautiful TL)