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Here's what I don't get, and it's the value proposition.
I called the local Genesis dealership today about a G70 3.3t with the Elite package. This is a comparable vehicle, missing maybe a couple of options. MSRP is right about $50K. With just asking the sales rep what their opening offer was, he said $46K, and down to $45K with conquest.
This represents a discount of $8-$10K over the TLX-S.
Are the vehicles not comparable. Is the G80 the right target here?
My wife just got an RDX and I love how it drives, but at $55K the Type-S is going to have tight competition.
What kind of discount did you see on then new RDX?
Here's what I don't get, and it's the value proposition.
I called the local Genesis dealership today about a G70 3.3t with the Elite package. This is a comparable vehicle, missing maybe a couple of options. MSRP is right about $50K. With just asking the sales rep what their opening offer was, he said $46K, and down to $45K with conquest.
This represents a discount of $8-$10K over the TLX-S.
Are the vehicles not comparable. Is the G80 the right target here?
My wife just got an RDX and I love how it drives, but at $55K the Type-S is going to have tight competition.
2018 G80 Ultimate with the V8 brand new is $53k. 2 years and 30k miles later, it's worth $34k. That's a massive $21k in value lost in just 2 years.
Especially with that kind of loss, I'll still take the TLX Type S over the competition.
What kind of discount did you see on then new RDX?
Thanks!
No conquest or loyalty, we got a loaded 2020 RDX Advance for $42K. The trade was also $1K-2K better at that dealer, so the deal represented not just 20% off of MSRP but a better OTD price in the color we wanted.
Originally Posted by Shadow2056
2018 G80 Ultimate with the V8 brand new is $53k. 2 years and 30k miles later, it's worth $34k. That's a massive $21k in value lost in just 2 years.
Especially with that kind of loss, I'll still take the TLX Type S over the competition.
Yeah, I think the red paint issue really hurt Genesis resale on this instance. I am interested to see how the TLX holds value.
Originally Posted by iforyou
Supply and demand. If people are only willing to pay $45k for a g70 3.3t elite and Hyundai is happy to sell at price, then that's where the car is valued at, imo.
Same for the tlx s. They may ask $53, 54k msrp but it comes down to how much people are willing to pay. People are getting $10k off m340i too so these competitors likely have no choice but to discount accordingly. This is probably especially true during covid.
The TLX Type-S at $54K seems absurd. Especially if it barely competes with the S4 andbG70, and is easily bested by the 340i and C43 AMG.
I I really want the Type-S to do well, and am very much considering purchasing one. But a purchase price of $45,000 is much more in line with what the market seems to be at, then a purchase price of $53,000.
2018 G80 Ultimate with the V8 brand new is $53k. 2 years and 30k miles later, it's worth $34k. That's a massive $21k in value lost in just 2 years.
Especially with that kind of loss, I'll still take the TLX Type S over the competition.
But have you seen the depreciation on the current TLX? I would expect the same if not worse [because we don't know what issues may pop up yet] on the new gen. as well.
It's the car game in general and luxury cars take a pretty big hit
No conquest or loyalty, we got a loaded 2020 RDX Advance for $42K. The trade was also $1K-2K better at that dealer, so the deal represented not just 20% off of MSRP but a better OTD price in the color we wanted.
Yeah, I think the red paint issue really hurt Genesis resale on this instance. I am interested to see how the TLX holds value.
The TLX Type-S at $54K seems absurd. Especially if it barely competes with the S4 andbG70, and is easily bested by the 340i and C43 AMG.
I I really want the Type-S to do well, and am very much considering purchasing one. But a purchase price of $45,000 is much more in line with what the market seems to be at, then a purchase price of $53,000.
Give your head a shake.... You want the Type S to be at $45K when the current ASPEC is at this price level. Germans start at high 50's and take off from there. Add few features and you are at mid 60's easy. Type S is not a volume car. Acura is banking that in the first year or two they will move them easily. I'm sure there will be another level eventually which will add all the missing features. I agree with all that not giving your customers an option to trim up Type S is a DUMB move. In Canada Type S will have everything minus HUD and Surround Cameras. I can live with that.
Any guesses how much the Type S will weigh?
The A-spec 2.0T SH-AWD is 3990 lbs, and the Advance 2.0T SH-AWD is 4028 lbs. So I'm thinking about 4200 lbs to account for the 3.0T and bigger brakes, wheels, etc. For reference, the BMW M340i and Mercedes C43 AMG are both about 3800 lbs.
No conquest or loyalty, we got a loaded 2020 RDX Advance for $42K. The trade was also $1K-2K better at that dealer, so the deal represented not just 20% off of MSRP but a better OTD price in the color we wanted.
Well done sir, I'm a terrible negotiator, need you to do my negotiating from now on.
That is what I was hoping the Type S would come in as or 48k. I will be more inclined to pay 48k for the Type-S rather than 53k which I would look elsewhere if I were to pay that much.
Any guesses how much the Type S will weigh?
The A-spec 2.0T SH-AWD is 3990 lbs, and the Advance 2.0T SH-AWD is 4028 lbs. So I'm thinking about 4200 lbs to account for the 3.0T and bigger brakes, wheels, etc. For reference, the BMW M340i and Mercedes C43 AMG are both about 3800 lbs.
That sounds about right if they don't remove any NVH insulation for the Type-S. The difference in weight between the 2.4 TLX and 3.5 TLX is 100lb, so if we assume the 8DCT and 9ZF weighs about the same, then just the engine block itself is probably 100lb extra for the Type-S. And as you mentioned, the bigger brakes and bigger wheels, plus I imagine a larger intercooler and maybe a diff or trans cooler if they're serious about this being a performance car. Probably some beefier braces too, and the supposed "beefier" transmission would probably weigh a little more. My guess is 4148lb.
The TLX Type-S at $54K seems absurd. Especially if it barely competes with the S4 andbG70, and is easily bested by the 340i and C43 AMG.
I I really want the Type-S to do well, and am very much considering purchasing one. But a purchase price of $45,000 is much more in line with what the market seems to be at, then a purchase price of $53,000.
The MSRP of a M340i xdrive starts at $57k for the base trim, and a fully loaded one is just under $70k. The fully loaded one has features that are not available on the Type S though.
Realistically, a comparably equipped one has the following:
Paint: $550
19" rims (TLX actually has 20" but that's not available on the M340i): $600
Leather seats: $1450
Driver Assistance Pro Pkg: $1700
Heated front seats: $500 (TLX S actually has ventilated seats too but this does not seem to be available on the M340i)
Wifi Hotspot: $500
Harmon Kardon sound system: $875 (I'd imagine this is not quite the same level as the ELS 3D system)
Adaptive suspension: $700
The above comes to $63k and it's somewhat not as well equipped as the TLX Type S. Regardless, there's a good $10k price difference. We can only compare MSRP at the moment. If one can get $10k off the M340i, that's great for the buyer and may be that's a indication of supply and demand of the car (i.e. may be people don't think a decently equipped M340i is worth $63k and it's more of a $55k car). Likewise, Acura will try to sell as many TLX S at MSRP, which is said to be low $50k's. If they can't sell at that price, they will have no choice but to give out incentives too to meet their target sales volume.
Originally Posted by bilirubin
Any guesses how much the Type S will weigh?
The A-spec 2.0T SH-AWD is 3990 lbs, and the Advance 2.0T SH-AWD is 4028 lbs. So I'm thinking about 4200 lbs to account for the 3.0T and bigger brakes, wheels, etc. For reference, the BMW M340i and Mercedes C43 AMG are both about 3800 lbs.
The Type S is comes moderately equipped and I'd imagine a similarly equipped m340i xdrive may be over 4000lb.
People seem to be making a big deal about how much the extra features and equipment weights as a way to justify why the Type-S doesn't have all the Advanced features. But, from Honda's own spec sheet, the weight difference between the A-Spec and the Advance is a whopping 38lb, and the weight difference between the Tech and A-Spec is only 8lb. For a 4000lb car, that's hardly anything at all.
People seem to be making a big deal about how much the extra features and equipment weights as a way to justify why the Type-S doesn't have all the Advanced features. But, from Honda's own spec sheet, the weight difference between the A-Spec and the Advance is a whopping 38lb, and the weight difference between the Tech and A-Spec is only 8lb. For a 4000lb car, that's hardly anything at all.
May be for others but I wasn't really justifying the weight lol. It's more to point out the actual weight of a similarly equipped m340i xdrive. For the TLX, Base AWD is 3927lb, Tech AWD is 3982lb, A-spec 3990lb. Depending on how you look at it, there's a 55lb difference from base to tech. With the base m340i xdrive being 3968lb, I'd imagine a better equipped model being 4000lb+ is too surprising. Again, wasn't really trying to justify anything.
I have thought a lot about weight differences before. I think the biggest weight difference a trim package could add would be found between a base model car and fully loaded, sunroof vs not, cloth vs leather, power seats vs manual. Really, nothing that applies once your in an Acura since every Acura comes pretty loaded up!
Give your head a shake.... You want the Type S to be at $45K when the current ASPEC is at this price level. Germans start at high 50's and take off from there. Add few features and you are at mid 60's easy. Type S is not a volume car. Acura is banking that in the first year or two they will move them easily. I'm sure there will be another level eventually which will add all the missing features. I agree with all that not giving your customers an option to trim up Type S is a DUMB move. In Canada Type S will have everything minus HUD and Surround Cameras. I can live with that.
II guess I should have clarified. I wasn't suggesting that 45,000 dollars should be the MSRP, but that the $45,000 is more appropriately what the thing should actually sell for.
Thanks for sharing that link, although it's somewhat curious that they state the weight is exactly 1800kg. Seems like that might be an estimate. The M340i that was actually weighed by Car & Driver was 3813 lbs... https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
Regardless, I think it's a given there's no chance the TLX Type S will weigh less that its German competition. That 355hp/354 lb-ft better be under-rated.
Likewise, Acura will try to sell as many TLX S at MSRP, which is said to be low $50k's. If they can't sell at that price, they will have no choice but to give out incentives too to meet their target sales volume.
Remember, the whole planet is buying all these other better premium sedans. If they buy an Acura , it's a SUV ( I read here that is what everyone likes to drive).
So, only 10 of us (per state) will even buy a TLX . Admittedly, Acura knows that only 20% of TLX buyers will spring for a Type-S . That's like 2 per state. A rich lady might drop by and buy one for her husband. That leaves 1 rare Type-S . Sure they will really be wanting to get rid of it below MSRP. Probably below Invoice.
Thanks for sharing that link, although it's somewhat curious that they state the weight is exactly 1800kg. Seems like that might be an estimate. The M340i that was actually weighed by Car & Driver was 3813 lbs... https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
Regardless, I think it's a given there's no chance the TLX Type S will weigh less that its German competition. That 355hp/354 lb-ft better be under-rated.
No problem man! The M340i in your link is RWD, not AWD.
Originally Posted by Tesla1856
Remember, the whole planet is buying all these other better premium sedans. If they buy an Acura , it's a SUV ( I read here that is what everyone likes to drive).
So, only 10 of us (per state) will even buy a TLX . Admittedly, Acura knows that only 20% of TLX buyers will spring for a Type-S . That's like 2 per state. A rich lady might drop by and buy one for her husband. That leaves 1 rare Type-S . Sure they will really be wanting to get rid of it below MSRP. Probably below Invoice.
lol I'm guilty of that by having a RDX. Personally I'd take the TLX over the RDX....but the wife gotta have a SUV....
The MSRP of a M340i xdrive starts at $57k for the base trim, and a fully loaded one is just under $70k. The fully loaded one has features that are not available on the Type S though.
Realistically, a comparably equipped one has the following:
Paint: $550
19" rims (TLX actually has 20" but that's not available on the M340i): $600
Leather seats: $1450
Driver Assistance Pro Pkg: $1700
Heated front seats: $500 (TLX S actually has ventilated seats too but this does not seem to be available on the M340i)
Wifi Hotspot: $500
Harmon Kardon sound system: $875 (I'd imagine this is not quite the same level as the ELS 3D system)
Adaptive suspension: $700
The above comes to $63k and it's somewhat not as well equipped as the TLX Type S. Regardless, there's a good $10k price difference. We can only compare MSRP at the moment. If one can get $10k off the M340i, that's great for the buyer and may be that's a indication of supply and demand of the car (i.e. may be people don't think a decently equipped M340i is worth $63k and it's more of a $55k car). Likewise, Acura will try to sell as many TLX S at MSRP, which is said to be low $50k's. If they can't sell at that price, they will have no choice but to give out incentives too to meet their target sales volume.
This is probably the best angle/photo I’ve seen of the car so far ...and of course it has to be “in the wild”. I’ve seen some Acura Studio pictures that don’t do the car justice.
Not many people are paying those prices for an M340i. Most people are getting them for mid to high 50's low 60's. BMW offers crazy discounts.
Exactly my point - supply and demand. People aren't paying those prices for an M340i because it's not worth that much - the market has spoken. The TLX-S would be the same. Its MSRP will be low $50k's, but after the first few months, Acura will offer discount to create a price gap between the Type S and its competitors. But if they can lure people in for the first little while at full or nearly full msrp, they won't say no to that profit.
I bet Acura will make another PMC Edition at the end of the 2G TLX lifespan.
I think maybe by MMC since Type-S price with less content than and Advance will cause it to not sell as well as it could. I am unaware of any competitor that removes content it’s highest term car.
This is probably the best angle/photo I’ve seen of the car so far ...and of course it has to be “in the wild”. I’ve seen some Acura Studio pictures that don’t do the car justice.
THESE are the type wheels these cars should be coming with stock. Love that concave!
I hope and think based upon what I've read that a desired feature or two missing in certain trims will be outweighed by the way this car is built to perform. We shall see.
Good Lord, they phoned it in even more than I thought. The seats are identical to my 2015 F-Sport. The layout is identical, just bigger screens and minor cosmetic changes like going from rectangular vents to circular vents on the outside. If they were looking for an excuse to discontinue the model for poor sales they've given themselves an out by creating a 'new model' with less change than most MMCs.
08-30-2020, 02:30 AM
