AcuraFan1980

0-60 is a big deal for the Type S.

The ONLY reason for even consider the type s will be for its speed and aggressive driving

The overwhelming majority will just get the other versions of the TLX because they all look very nice and are mostly loaded ( compared to other cars )

The type s is supposed to appeal to the die hards. If they don’t make them happy, the car will barely sell imo

mondster

A few still pics from the latest commercial

ZipSpeed

Agreed. This class of driver knows what he or she wants, and they tend to prefer near-loaded or loaded models. The typical non-enthusiast will tend to gravitate towards the more basic models like the base or tech models.

leomio85

Unless you have inside knowledge nobody else has, those rumors that Nissan is killing off the Maxima is just that ... rumors. There has been no confirmation from Nissan as to what the fate of the Maxima is, though the fact that they're moving forward with the new Z car is promising that the Maxima may be safe for the time being. It would be astounding if Nissan said, "f*ck it" and stuck their 3.0TT in the new Maxima with AWD and priced it in the mid-$40k range. Personally, I couldn't care less the badge on the car. If they brought that to fruition I'd absolutely be on board, just so long as they scrapped the CVT. Acura has lost my business for the foreseeable future with nothing that interests me after the debacle that is the 2G TLX-S. MDX-S is probably going to be low-mid $60k (yea, absolutely no thank you) and if they shove the 3.0T engine in the RDX (almost zero chance of that as it'd cannibalize the MDX-S) I may trade the RDX in for the S-variant. Other than that, Acura could vanish and I wouldn't even care.

Honestly, I wish Honda and Nissan would just get rid of their "luxury" divisions as they're comprehensively inferior in every conceivable way to the Germans, and to a lesser extent, Lexus. Just hack off that arm, stem the bleeding and focus on their mainstream brands and bring some of the development to those vehicles. A CR-V with the 2.0T would be in my driveway if it was an option. 3.0T in the Passport with a differently tuned suspension? Yes, please. Honda Accord Type-R with the 3.0T with AWD? Stop! I can only get so erect. I could go on. Screw the Acura emblem and brand, I couldn't care less. It'll never happen, but a girl can dream. =P

Kinuto

Honestly I wish they would do that but this is all over the Maxima org forums. The Altima and Sentra both look like the current gen Maxima and I don't think the Maxima sells like it did back in 1995-2003. Once they put a CVT in that car they killed it completely. My fiance has a 2008 with Nissan's first gen CVT. It's horrible on gas with the VQ35DE and the engines power band certainly doesn't match well with it.

This is my fiance's 6th Gen Maxima.

This was my 1997 Nissan Maxima SE that I had painted Nissan Silvia Pearl Blue. I also spent tons of money on suspension and mechanical parts to keep the car going throughout the years. I loved this car and didn't want to let it go but the rust kept coming back


My 2007 Honda Civic LX Coupe is what brought me into the world of Honda and Acura.

ZipSpeed

You know, this fizzling excitement for the Type-S has got me thinking. @SuperHandlingTL mentioned numerous times that Honda Japan has a fairly firm grip on the Acura brand, and despite what Jon Ikeda has been parading on about the return of Acura as a performance brand, I'm wondering just how much exactly of a grip they have on Acura's proverbial balls. Ikeda may impart the notion that they have absolute free reign to Make Acura Great Again, but in reality, the bean counters and the Old Guard may have a hand at why this Type-S has become somewhat of a disappointment. Acura probably has seen more money flow their way because their lineup is improving, but I have a feeling the top dogs on the other side of the world still has them on a tight leash which is why we're seeing slightly neutered vehicles relative to their competition. My own conjecture of course, valid or not.

BEAR-AvHistory

Was any number of months that the TL was #1 in sales for its class, knocking out 70,000+ units a year. The G4 never even outsold the BMW 5 series forget the 3/4 series loosing half its own market dropping down into the mid 30K range for units sold. 10+ years it has never recovered, still does well to sell 30K cars. Since I owned the fantastic E46 series fantastic ZHP 6MT version & a TL 6MT at the same time I will respectively disagree with you on performance.

fiatlux

You know what, that's actually a good point. It's possible that Acura was ordered not to allow the Type-S to outperform the CTR at the track. It's not outside of the realm of possibility; FCA pulled the same shenanigans when they prevented Dodge from giving the SRT Viper ACR a better power/weight ratio than Ferrari's F12 Berlinetta.

4G-Lover

You are telling me that the 3G was a better sport sedan than a 3 Series of its time...sure...considering that the E46 and E90 are still considered the pinnacle of the 3 Series when it comes to handling I think it's a case of 3G misty eyes...and before you say it, yes I drove all of them and I remember very well the Type S atrocious torque steer...
Selling a lot of cars does not mean being the best in its segment and the 3G was not the best sport sedan in its class.....it was simply a very good front driver and a looker. Personally I did not even find enough gap to justify moving from my 2002 Maxima 6MT with LSD to a 3G Type S and the torque steer of my Maxima was way less than the tug-a-wheel of the Acura....go figure...

4G-Lover

....and the 5.5 Maxima with the 4AT were quite slower than the 6MT...

BEAR-AvHistory

Don't have it saved anyplace but the tests were handicapped to help the TL-SHAWD. It was good in low to medium speed runs but not on high speed runs. One of the early multi-car tests it lost its brakes after the first lap. They kept pitting to let it cool down. The other cars could all run multiple back to back high speed laps. The TL was competitive on tight short courses but so was a Miatia. Even at The Streets of Willow they put up cones to modify the track. In the back ground notes in response to the letters to the editor it was said "we had to slow the other cars down so that they would not run away with the test & we wanted to show handling dynamics"

You will not find a TL or TLX in the 259 cars that have competed in the Car & Driver Lightning Laps going back to 2006 since its run at VIR's North Grand Course which is a fast 4.2 mile run. They have entered both NSX generations. Competitive cars, in our definition of competitive, will make in the 150's on the main straight before braking into a slow right hander. Honda has entered a number of cars including Accord & Civic. Even the Fit EX which finished in 259th place. Toyota has run the Camry & Infiniti the G35 & G37.

As far as buying one in many cases the product line is two narrow. Just a 4 door sedan. Coupes, Convertibles & maybe a 2 seater can't hurt.

BEAR-AvHistory

What I am saying is it was competitive in performance & a sales leader. As for its handling the 3G TL 6MT, LSD & Summer tires was a nice runner & not subject to "atrocious torque steer". At VIR the 2004 BMW 330Ci ZHP 6MT summer tires would run away & hide from the 2006 Acura TL 6MT LSD summer tires. On the street you would need to be in the stupid range before the BMW would put it away. Out of a traffic light driven well the BMW was slightly faster. Make a slight mistake & the TL would win. On the drag strip you could screwup the BMW launch a little but still catch the TL in the second eighth.

Also owned 2 E90's & 1 F90, Coupes with optional performance engines & track package suspensions including the now legendary 335IS 7DCT & this is the first time I have heard them described as the pinnacle of the 3 series. Most of the time the get pounded for the steering feel. Never bothered me put the magazine writers all had a cow over BMW loosing its way. None of the E 90 or F90 except for the first 2 years of the E overlap the 3G. My first E90 was a 2011 model & was a contemporary of the TL 4G whos lunch it ate & whos candy money it stole

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

piggy backing off the alternative ideas;

dmski

Put the crack pipe down for a sec.... Do you know the cost to develop a brand new engine? Probably over a Billion dollars... So Honda, sank all that $$$ but told Acura - "Hey, make sure this thing does not beat the Civic Type R"....

fiatlux

Ego and pride is a hell of a drug.

BTW I highly doubt it cost a billion dollars to develop this new engine. Do you know how many units they'd have to move just to cover that cost? This is a low-volume engine; no way in hell they spent that much.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to agree with others in here as well as from other forums. It's really apples to oranges comparing the type-s to the civic type-r, however since honda sells more units and generally speaking, Honda attracts to more enthusiast buyers, the civic type-r is the Lamborghini of Honda. I don't see Acura taking the spot light away from the civic type-r. The civic type-r has more of a prestige presence and is more than likely to become one of those bringatrailer vehicle as the type-s isnt and wont have that type of presence with it. Again, just my opinion and going with what others have been saying. You here more enthusiast brag about the type-r civic than about the NSX.

4G-Lover

Sales leader does not matter into this discussion, "competitive" in performance under some circumstances, yes, does not mean it it could be considered a top sport sedan. Heck my 2002 Max to 60 was almost "competitive" with an E39 540i...

You and I evidently have different take on torque steer

I smoked a coupe of Type S at a stop light with my Maxima on occasion...did that make my 5.5 a "competitive" sport sedan with a 3 Series?? Please....

E46 and E90 are considered, in general handling and feel, the best 3 Series, yes sir....you may have a different opinion (everyone has one) but this is the general consensus (check on Bimmerfest where you and I are both members)...too early to call on the G20.

The E90 did overlap the 3G by almost 4 years (E90 production started in Dec 2004 and the 4G arrived in Nov 2008)

I would eat Type S for breakfast lunch and dinner with my 4G which was a far and I repeat, a far better car under any angle you may want to look at

You criticism at "screwing up" is simply non credible, pure hogwash, Acura delivered a much better car than the 3G period...you may not like the styling or some aspects of the direction in which was better (bigger and more comfortable for example) but you are not entitled to your own facts.

4G-Lover

Well Cadillac is selling cars with a continuous evolution of a similar design language for over 15 years...Acura simply chickened out instead of fixing the car real shortcomings (no folding seats, small trunk, slow automatic transmission, etc..)

BEAR-AvHistory

Some say they totally screwed the TL with the 4G others say it was a wonderful car & knocked it out of the park.

Consumers said with their pockbooks:
TL/TLX annual USA sales
2005 78,218
2006 71,348
2007 58,095
2008 46,475 Last year of the TL G3
2009 33,620
2010 34,049 Reintroduced the 6MT
2011 31,237
2012 36,783
2013 24,318
2014 19,127 Last year of the TL 4G
2015 47,080
2016 37,156
2017 34,846
2018 30,468
2019 26,548
2020 11,300 Last year of the TLX 1G

A car company is in business to sell cars so one might ask a stockholders if the 4G totally screwed Acura or not.

March 2004 Car & Driver 3G Comparo

Acura was clearly planning to take no prisoners with the latest TL, and that was immediately apparent at the drag strip, where the TL ripped off a 0-to-60-mph mark of just 5.8 seconds--a half-second quicker than the potent Infiniti G35 could manage with its 3.5-liter V-6, and more than a second quicker than the best of the rest.

Equipped with Acura's VTEC system, the TL's broad torque spread was equally impressive. Along with the mega-motor came a slick-shifting six-speed transmission and purposeful--almost sinister-looking--exterior styling. Inside, we found a roomy cabin with high-grade materials and legible instrumentation. The message was clear: This car has the goods to kick ass in this category.


June 2009 car & driver First 4G comparo.

TL track numbers are undistinguished in this group: 6.5 seconds to 60 mph noses it ahead of the Audi, but it isn’t within a sniff of the Infiniti and BMW, who get there in the fives. By the tiniest of margins, the TL topped the braking results: 158 feet in the 70-to-0 compared with 159 feet for the Infiniti and 160 for the BMW. Skidpad grip was identical for those three at 0.92 g, a commendable number for medium-size sedans, but there’s an asterisk attached—all of them roll on summer tires, which generally wear faster and lose their grip as temperatures drop near freezing.

fiatlux

I just know that someone is going to bring up the trope that "oh, of course sales dropped, everyone is gravitating toward crossovers."

To which I say, look at market share or the competition to see if the drop can be explained by macro effects. From 2009-2014, BMW saw no noticeable drop in 3-series sales numbers (in fact, 2014 and 2015 were their 2nd and 3rd highest sales years ever). During that same time period, Audi and Lexus did see a small drop-off, but nowhere near as precipitous as the TL which MY over MY saw a reduction by 50%. And the C-Class had their 2 best years ever in 2012 and 2013. So clearly, buyers were voting with their wallets, and it wasn't because they were moving over to crossovers (yet). Say what you will about the 3G and 4G, but clearly the buying public preferred the former over the latter.

4G-Lover

"Totally screwed" may apply to the commercial aspect (and not even that, in fact at the end of the day the 4G did not much worse than the much cheaper TLX in sales) and we do not need to repeat that the 4G arrived at the start of the worse recession in almost 80 years and the move toward Crossover was well underway, you woudl nto repeat the 3G sales today with any car. The fact is that the 4G was a much better car than the 3G in substance

Yes, yada yada yada...the general public did like, on average, the look of the 3G better...so??? That was not the point..I did liek the 4G and Acura delivered a better car (I should say a better sport sedan to be precise) than the one it replaced so.....same cannot be said for the TLX vs the 4G....


March 2004 Car & Driver 3G Comparo

My Maxima clocked 6 flat already in 2002 (with skinnier all season tires)...so straight performance is everything for you?? Even there in that department the 3G was not out out of this world fast for a front driver compared to cars already in the market (my Maxima for example, the 5 speed Neon SRT 4 rushed to 60 in 5.3)

You may want to read this road test from 2006, the restyled G35 sedan 6MT.....she is the one, in the words of the authors, considered a serious challenger to the 3 Series, the 3G is not even mentioned once

4G-Lover

Yes and what is the point?? The 4G was a better car, a better premium sport sedan pretty much across the board where the TLX is a worse than the 4G also pretty much across the board (ok it is quieter and probably more fuel efficient)

fiatlux

Looks are subjective, but the 4G looked like ass. I'm not sure what was worse, the beak or the fact that the car looked the same from behind as it did from the front. As bland as the TLX is, I would say it's a huge step up in the looks department by virtue of not having a face that resembles a giant can-opener.

If it in fact is "better", then the fact that it saw a huge drop-off in sales must mean something pushed prospective buyers elsewhere. Either other competitor cars were even better, or they found the car to be as homely as I do. My bet is on the latter.

4G-Lover

This is what C&D said of the 4G when tested first time

"heads will swivel when you arrive"

"Finally, an Acura sculpted front to back with a single theme in mind, rakish, ominous, one step short of menacing. If ever there was a car meant to look sinister in the images transmitted from a Predator drone circling overhead, it’s the 2009 Acura TL. This is brave, and the more we look, the more we see a breakthrough design."

"The previous TL had an appealing perkiness about its looks, and it rose to become Acura’s top seller by a wide margin over the TSX. Now this new version reaches in an altogether different direction. In profile, the greenhouse arches elegantly over the wedge-shaped lower body, the contrasting shape enhanced by bright metal accents running along both sides of the arch. Below the rear bumpers, deliberately sculpted diffuser channels frame the twin exhaust outlets on each side. Overall, we see grace deftly balanced against aggression.

Edmunds TL SH-AWD 6MT road test and ranking

The Sport Sedan Establishment Should Be (Slightly) Worried

https://www.edmunds.com/acura/tl/2010/road-test-3/

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

sounds like they were paid by Acura to say that

fiatlux

They're either shills or blind because most other reviews weren't quite so kind. At best, it's incredibly controversial:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...h-awd-verdict/
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...l-first-drive/
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ura-tl-sh-awd/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...h-awd-wrap-up/
https://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/15/...wd-6mt-review/
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...-tl-arrival-2/
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...ura-tl-sh-awd/

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The 4G TL was probably a better sports sedan than the 3G but yea its look was definitely polarizing. And while it's an improvement over the 3G IMO, the others in the segment have also improved noticeably, especially in terms of straight line speed. Whereas the 3G TL when it first came out was nearly the fastest in the segment, by the end of its model cycle and 4G era, everyone was offering 300hp+ and trapping at 105mph or so in the 1/4 mile, while doing 0-60mph in high 4's. The 4G TL needed the 6MT to get close but even then, it was never in the 4's for 0-60mph, and its 1/4 mile trap speed was just slightly over 100mph. A small, but noticeably difference.

I drove one as a courtesy car though and it's a really nice car though. And I can understand how it can be slightly faster than others on race tracks. For instance, I don't believe the 335i back in the days at LSD, that's pretty important when trying to go fast on a track. It's quite possible the TL, while being faster on the race track, may not be able to last many laps. But I'm pretty sure the others in the segment are unlikely to survive a typical 20-25 min track day session unless you are not really pushing the car. I've seen too many Audi S cars and BMW M cars to suffer brake fade issues on the track. Having said that, I don't think many people take these cars to the track anyway....so for 99% of the buyers, it's probably not that important.

BEAR-AvHistory

Yada, Yada, Yada The 4 G was such a great car it cost Acura 50% of it sedan customer base which it never recovered as of today. If it was a great sports sedan it would have won or at least placed near the top of the comparos, but it didn't. The customers have spoken with their money & the magazines have spoken with their reviews. Last competitive car both in sales & in magazine comparos was the TL 3G. Not me thats trying to rewrite history thats history written by various magazines supported by any number of street encounters.

FWIW or not forget the top model 4G which like the other brands top models do not carry the bulk of the sales. There is no evidence that the lower models of the 4G which did not compete in the performance area did any better in sales. No matter how its spun the car could not be sold in any significant numbers compared to the 3G from base to range topper.

Quote:

iforyou I can understand how it can be slightly faster than others on race tracks.

I don't believe you will find any documented evidence that a 4G was faster than the others on the track. The only time it was close was when the straights were all cut out of the already tight streets of Willow. QUOTE: We had to limit the straights so the other cars did not run away with the test.

4G keeps talking about his Maxima not so much his 4G. Only ran one 4G 6MT with my 335is. Was over in about 50ft. Think the TL driver was shocked he lost so quickly, maybe he believed the TV adds.

C&D June 21, 2011
2011 335is
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
5 to 60 mph 5.0
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 108 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 148 mph
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.93 g

C&D October 14, 2009
2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g

Kinuto

I find it funny so much dislike for the 4th Generation styling yet it's selling like crazy in the used car market now. Every car manufacturer has a hit and mess when it comes to vehicle styling. Take the Maxima for example the 5th Gen was highly loved because it was essentially an evolution of the 4th Generation and Nissan even put the VQ35DE for it's mid cycle refresh. Once the 6th Gen came out everyone would complain "Oh it's too big and boat like". But I find it funny now you even see plenty of those on the road as the 4G TL.

dopeboy1

Let's just say that the 4G may have been a sales "failure" for Acura for a number of reasons but it is a huge success for those of us who own one.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

well, just like the Macan...it can be ugly as shit but still have a cult following - due to the driving experience.

Kinuto

Lmao Very true. I find it funny that everyone likes to point out the Beak on the TL when Acura's entire lineup had it too. You see a late model TSX and you wonder is that a TL? Also the TLX had the beak from 2014-2017.
​​​​​​

TVL65

I live in North Jersey, driving here SUCKS and is not enjoyable. So, yeah I can see myself buying a Type S and enjoying it, kicking up the RPM's and getting that Turbo to kick in, I'm going 15 mph over the posted limit and.........................STOPPP!!!!!!!!!!!! Road construction!!!!!!!!!!!! Or the usual UPS or Fed Ex truck pulling out or the idiotic driver who then goes 10 mph UNDER. In reality there are no places up here to enjoy driving, too many people in NJ, we live up each others asses 24/7. And the town PD's up here where speed limits constantly change from 40 to 25 in an instant and if you're even slightly over CONGRATS you get issued wood.

F23A4

As with Jeep, this may warrant a ‘It’s a 4G thing. You wouldn’t understand it.’ bumper sticker.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the turbos kick in a lot earlier than you think.
dont gotta rev it up...torque is available at 1500RPM

F23A4

Honestly, I dont come across too many 6G Maximas in my travels and havent in some time. Granted, I dont spend much time in urban areas where I last recall seeing them in larger numbers. I actually come across more 5.5Gs these days, which probably lends itself to my belief that a Japanese build 5th gen is better than the US built 6th gen which followed.

In any event, having been on Azine since the days when I was a trolling mod from Maxima.org (largely messing with the 3.2TL-S guys back when I had a 5.5G Maxima), I can say that the 4G was NOT well received by many here during its production run....upgraded hardware and build materials notwithstanding. (I sort of recall posting something to the effect of 'now you know how us 5.5G Maxima guys felt when the 6G came out) Granted, it was a better car in many way but that styling (coupled with the Great Recession) really killed sales. As Im pretty close to the sales manager at my local Acura dealer, I recall him indicating that they received tons of gripes about the new TL's styling during that time.

However, I will concede that in the midst of the current 'ugly is the new beautiful' zeitgeist, the 4G TL is probably best received these days than in any years past.

Regarding the back and forth between Bear and 4G, I will say that the 4G was never in the conversation (versus its competitors) in any substantial way but it was an underrated performer; particularly the SH-AWD model with Summer tires which bumped up grip and braking performance (the former to .92g)

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I also live in North NJ and understand where you're coming. NJ isn't the autobahn, but there are plenty of opportunities to responsibly get on that throttle.

Kinuto

I'm from Connecticut. We don't have the tolls yet so we can go all out on the throttle over here.

Kinuto

It's really cool to see a lot of former Maxima owners on the Acurazine forums. Maxima.org used to be awesome so much info and guys were modding the 4th and 5th Gen Maxima heavily. Sadly the forum is pretty dead nowadays I'm not sure if the introduction of the CVT was fault of it all.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

When I was looking to buy the 3rd gen TL, I had made a post here and asked for some advice. I was surprised how many had maxima's and were part of maxima.org. The biggest issue I had with the maxima community, was when I got the TL, a lot of the maxima members "disowned" me. Most of which I had met in person from various meets. All of a sudden I was a nobody to them and became this honda boy. This crap still happens today unfortunately.