justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the ES is Wrong wheel drive. never gonna happen!

Midnight Mystery

ES F-Sport?

Isn't that just a GS350 F-Sport?

CollinR4

Yes, already suffers from torque steer, any additional power is wasted. Although, they add AWD as they did for Camry and Avalon and then you're talking. Just need to scrap that infotainment system.

fiatlux

At least the GS350 is (was?) RWD.

Edward'TLS

However, once they add in AWD hardware, the additional dead weight and AWD gearing loss will render the additional power moot on dry roads.

Nothing beats the simplicity and the comparatively lighter weight of RWD (2 wheel drive) mechanics for propulsion and the front wheels dedicated for steering purpose.

Midnight Mystery

Yup. Honda ain't about that life though.

Shadow2056

I don't see any other cars that my wife would like in that same class. She's an Acura fan and so am I. BMW, Mercedes, Audi. Don't want none of them. Lexus was on the list for a while but not a fan at all about any that are above the 13 models. Hate the grill and interior. Plus. I have my new 2020 Accord Sport. So the car will be for the wife. Wifey wants the TLX Type S or the NSX. Well...I can't afford a payment on a 100K vehicle. Lol. So it'll be the Type S.

I've always been a fan of Lexus. Just not a fan of the dated infotainment. If I could, I'd get a 2013 ISF or IS350. Love the look of them.

Midnight Mystery

Your wife wants an NSX?

Shadow2056

Yep. And plays COD with me. Perfection in human form. Hahahaha! She saw it and was like "Oooo that car is sexy." Lol

leomio85

I was being facetious with the ES F-Sport ... though, I would love it if they shoved the LS500 motor in it with AWD, I understand the typical ES driver is a snowbird that does less than the speed limit. Lexus would never bother. Heck, Lexus IS sales in the US didn't even eclipse 15,000 units for 2019. That's woeful. Who knows, they patented IS 500, but if sales don't pick up with the refreshed IS (doubtful as they basically did nothing to it), they might just axe the model entirely. Meanwhile, Lexus's own shortcomings are the reason the model has died out.

Hope she's just being ignorant or said the NSX comment in jest ... $160k, the thing better look good. As for the TLX, again, the thing isn't even out yet and you haven't seen it in person. Even in the videos posted, it seems a lot less aesthetic (at least IMO), compared to the carefully curated photographs that have been released. Also, the Type S will likely have a harsh ride with the low profile sidewalls that it appears to have. The 3G RDX A-Spec's ride isn't exactly one of its strong points, I'd imagine the TLX Type-S to have a similar issue. I'm not saying to remove it entirely from the list, but don't be honed in so strongly on it before it's even out or you may overlook some glaring issues it has before dropping a decent amount of money on something you won't be entirely happy with once the honeymoon effect wears out.

Midnight Mystery

At least you have a wife that is interested in cars and not your typical Prius driver.

CaliAtenza

What's wrong with BMW, Mercedes and Audi? My father has a 2014 BMW 328i Sport and its worlds better than my TLX. My folks also have a 2020 X5 and its pretty amazing that an SUV that big can scoot around as fast as it does (it sounds good too!).

Edward'TLS

Unfortunately, no. But on the bright side, Honda still carries some of the best handling FWD vehicles, as long as their engine output stays below ~270hp.

Edward'TLS

Once you throw in the German makes into the party. The word "Reliability" is flashing like a neon sign.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

CTR

Midnight Mystery

270?

So you're saying a 3G Base TL with 258 hp out handles a TypeS with 286 hp?

JK!

BEAR-AvHistory

Think you are about 5 years out of date on who are the top cars in reliability.

Edward'TLS

Do please enlighten everyone !

F23A4

BEAR-AvHistory

2019 survey original owners of 3 year old cars
Lux under $45,000

2016 Audi A3
2016 Audi A4
2016 BMW 2 Series
2016 BMW 3 Series
2016 Hyundai Genesis
2016 Lexus ES
2016 Lincoln MKZ
2016 Mercedes-Benz C-Class
2016 Volvo S60

2019 survey of 3 year old cars
Lux over $45,000

2016 Audi A5
2016 Audi A6
2016 Audi
2016 BMW 4 Series
2016 BMW 5 Series
2016 Mercedes-Benz E-Class

2015 survey original owners of 3 year old cars
They did not do a value breakout

2012 Cadillac CTS
2012 Chevrolet Malibu
2012 Honda Accord
2012 Lexus ES
2012 Lincoln MKS
2012 Lincoln MZS
2012 Mercedes Benz E Class
2012 Nissan Altima
2012 Toyota Avalon
2012 Toyota Camry

Shadow2056

Some people are just fans of the looks and tech. No. It hasn't come out yet. My wife isn't a car enthusiast like me. She's not going to go drive 3 other cars to see if it handles better than her choice. I still wouldn't consider any of the above cars I mentioned due to the looks and interior. I like what I like. She likes what she likes. Lol. Trying to convince her otherwise is a failed attempt. She doesn't like BMW, Audi, Mercedes, or other brands. She loves the looks of the NSX. That's why she wants one. No. She was serious. If she, or I, had the money, we would have one sitting in the driveway right now. She'll drive it of course when it comes out. She has a 15 TLX now and loves it. No issues that everyone else complains about. Only problem we had was the brake rotors warping and the trans shifting funny. Both have been fixed. No problems.

Lol! I know right? She likes what she likes. Hahaha!

Right now with the BMW brand, the M3(F80) and the X5M are the only models I would even consider. The Audi models(S3, S4, and S6) are nice but I don't like the layout of the dash and buttons. Definitely not a fan of Mercedes and their weird gear shift on the steering column look. Ugh...Nor the infotainment. But being that I don't have money for the vehicles or any of the maintenance on any of them, they'll just remain as looker cars to me.


There you go.

Sure there are a few mags and reports that say the ones I mentioned above might be better reliability wise than Acura/Honda. But working at a Honda dealership, there's a reason why. Majority of the BMW/Audi/Mercedes owners trade their cars in at 40-60k. Way before the problems actually start. My wife has had her TLX for 4 years and only had 2 problems with it. Neither put the car down and both were fixed. She's had her 2010 TSX for 7 years and only had 2 problems with it. One of which was the brake rotor warping and the other a recall that was fixed for free. Before I actually believe any of those reports speaking on reliability, I want to know what demographic they're talking to. The ones who trade out of their cars every 3 or 4 years? Or the ones that keep their cars for 12 years or more? If it's the first one, then of course reliability won't be an issue. Especially when it's covered under warranty.

honda_nut

One thing I'm noticing in the spy shot video and the racing video is the terrible bumper/fender/hood alignment. Looks like they've been wrecked and hastily put back together. That wasn't the case in the introduction videos, so hopefully these are just pre-production issues.

dmski

You can show me all the Surveys you want. Germans sell a tonne of cars but how many do you see on the road after 10/15/20 years. They just don't last. If they did, they would be up there with Toyota and Honda in terms of reliability. It takes decades to build your reputation, no one just gives it to you.

MGP99999

Hmm, one of the engineers just confirmed that the Type-S will have over 350hp. Take that for what it's worth. Looks like anyone hoping for more than 375 hp might be disappointed.

honda_nut

Intersting. Anytime someone says over so an so number, it is basically barely over that number. Probably will be around 352 hp. Was really hoping for closer to 400 hp

Tony Pac

I think it will be 385HP

Teh Jatt

Official numbers tomorrow

https://www.vtec.net/forums/one-mess...age_id=1422666

fiatlux

I'm sticking with my guess of 365.

CollinR4

I'm as interested as anyone but to think we still have 2 months until the 2.0T arrives in dealerships, feel like the unveiling was too soon with the time between that and availability. I think the marketing group needs to release something each week to keep everyone interested. Base pricing would be a start, hopefully, that will be included tomorrow as well.

If we're getting numbers tomorrow morning, put me down for 375 horsepower and 385 torque.

leomio85

Are we playing over/under? I'm gonna say 366HP to outdo the G70, lol.

leomio85

Meet BEAR, the resident White Knight Defender of European Automobiles. LoL.

Consumers are stupid. The vast majority of people who operate these two ton missiles don't even know how to put air in their tires. But, we trust them to know about reliability? I've had my mom complain to me that there's always a beeping from her new car without realizing its the parking sensor. When I wrenched on cars, I've had people blame me for messing up their cars because a mysterious light came on their dash (it was the green light showing that their DRLs were on). When it comes to reliability, its really a crapshoot ... especially with a mass produced item like cars. What you really want is an automaker that will rectify those issues. The Germans have become very good at that, which is why people are less apt to complain about them, especially since the majority of vehicles are leased and are covered under warranty. Domestic automakers will laugh you out of the dealership if you drive off the lot and come back with an issue. Also, the perceived notion that German cars are terribly unreliable, people are pleasantly surprised when they don't have many issues with their German vehicles. I get a very perplexed look on my face when I hear people talking on BMW forums or on comments sections about "high mileage" cars with 50k miles on them. I'd eat a cyanide pill if I ever thought that was considered high mileage.

But, cars as a whole suck. They're getting worse too with all the electronics they're shoving into them. For the most part, at least Japanese and domestic vehicles are easy to wrench on yourself. Germans will outright tell you they engineer things to be difficult for a DIY or even skilled mechanic without specialized tools to work on. They want you coming back to the dealerships. Plus, the plastic the Germans use is "smart-plastic" and will literally snap at the slightest touch once the vehicle reached its 7th birthday. =P

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Given the current state of affairs I'm not so sure I would hold my breath on the 2G landing at dealerships on time

Edward'TLS

Thank you for all the 3 years ownership data.

It is true that the reliability of European autos have improved over the years, so are the Japanese makes. As far as the European long-term reliability matching that for Toyota's and Honda's, there is still considerably gap to overcome.

In general, European autos start to having reliability issues right at the 4 year mark, which is the length of the standard warranty period. Hats off to the European auto designers. They are geniuses. They can design vehicles and vehicle parts to such a precise life span, that is really impressive.

Unless one keeps swapping vehicles every (at most) 4 years, otherwise owning a top Japanese auto make is still the way to go for long term reliability.

dmski

Put me down for 400 Alex.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I'd say 358-368 hp and 365-373 TQ.

Lets all keep our fingers cross for promising numbers. I'd be more interested to see actual power numbers to the wheels. That would verify if they under rated the numbers.

ZipSpeed

I'm quite confident it will be between 351 hp to 400 hp.

CaliAtenza

I don't think that's necessarily true. I know the E90 335i was a dumpster fire, but the F30 has been pretty solid. My father's F30 328i has had no mechanical issues; just the odd burnt-out taillight. It's a 2014 and it's still going pretty strong (other than the steering, which is pretty loose, even in sport mode...). He gets it serviced at an independent shop now, which is MUCH cheaper than the dealership.

CaliAtenza

How did you get the transmission shifting fixed on your wife's 15 TLX? I've tried in two states and no go . I'm living in the South now, maybe I'll try here. The transmission just sours me on the car and it gets more and more annoying to drive it in daily stop-and-go traffic. I guess one thing is that a LOT of folks buy German cars for the status and prestige they carry. Acura and the Japanese brands, other than Lexus, can't do that.

Mak P

What does this heated up press about the lawsuit on the MDX and RDX, particularly the RDX mean for the new TLX?

https://carbuzz.com/news/more-angry-...popular-models

https://www.driveaccord.net/threads/...p-mode.502130/

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rdx-...9-spec-971802/

You think Honda/Acura is aware, but quite possibly could have made the necessary changes and tests for the TLX and Type-S to avoid those issues? God I hope so

leomio85

After thinking about it more, I think you're going to be right. Why does that number "350" keep coming up? Likely because it's in the 35x range. Sad.

It's likely thrown together quick without the quality control of your actual consumer car. It was probably a development car that they've had the body panels off multiple times for various reasons. Only the American automakers would have panel gaps that large, lol.