fiatlux

1) The NSX is unobtainable for most so it’s not particularly relevant. Plus it hasn’t exactly been a sales success so I’d call it a stinker
2) You conveniently forgot about the refreshed ILX that’s still riding on the 9G Civic platform.
3) Having to use an entry level compact crossover as an example of Acura’s newfound performance prowess ain’t a good sign.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

There's enthusiasts and then there's the Fan boys.

No rationalizing an irrational thought process.

So you can't voice your own personal opinion in here without someone getting upset. Moral of the story, to be on Acurazine

1. Must own an Acura, and only Acura / Honda products
2. Only praise Acura
3. No negativity towards Acura
4. No conversations about anything other than Acura
5. Your opinion on other vehicles are worthless, this is an Acura enthusiast site.

pyrodan007

If the new TLX would already be released, the negativity for it needing updates would be understandable and patience would be a virtue. But for it to already be matched or made old-ish even before release by a non-luxury model, well the negativity is from fans expecting more. Why would I sink in 45k for something average, it's no longer the best buy. AWD is becoming the leather option, more basic models are starting to have it. Especially when people care more about interior versus engine, better be current from day one. To me, interior in new TLX does nothing so it's not a selling factor. Kia K5 looks better, and that's a problem.

pyrodan007

If the TLX looked like this, would be a +1 from me. Coming from a lower model, Acura didn't do it's homework.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kyleedw.../#70a13d80285b



Versus

dmski

Cool story.... When you return that Audi and get the KIA come back and post, I'll wait. Again, Korean fan boys coming out to post while driving German cars.

Tony Pac

Koreans are the best man! Didn't you know Kia Stinger outsold C300 in Godknowsland. And now K5 will outsell C300, 3 Series and A4. Forget Acura TLX man doesn't even compete with Hyundai Accent.

pyrodan007

Keep on praising Acura, shows how much they listen to you guys. Maybe by 2025 they will have completed the digital display, and reinforced the car to have a pano sunroof. The fact that a Kia can be crossed shop today with an Acura on interior is telling on how Acura is not focusing on people's wants. Forget about performance, Type-S will have another problem with price same as RLX.

Acura fanboys always say Audi's break and Kia's are cheap. Yet who scored higher on reliability and satisfaction. I am still cross shopping Stinger with others, I don't care about the logo.

pyrodan007

If people can cross shop a Kia to an Acura and get more with the Kia, who will cross shop the new TLX with the Germans for features. Think about it, to them Kia = Acura. TLX lost me with no sportback design, not only on interior and apparently "brand".

fiatlux

It's staggering to me that the new Kia K5 manages to include a panoramic sunroof and acoustic glass even on their base models.

All that said, you've gotta wonder what's the catch. Either they're cutting corners somewhere, using slave labor, or they signed a deal with the devil. It boggles the mind how they can include that kind of stuff standard on what's effectively a commuter car, while still undercutting Honda and Toyota.

Edited: Nevermind, I think Motortrend is full of $#!7 on this one seeing as how nobody else is reporting this: https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021...hotos-details/

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I saw this video posted on an Optima group. They discuss a lot about the vehicle. I was very happy with our Optima. It ultimately saved my wife's life.

dmski

Apsolutely shop around. At the end of the day, people vote with their wallets. If KIA pushes K5 upmarket and are on par with Acura, I'm still buying Acura. If Acura drinks the cool aid and demands equivalent pricing to S5/C43/M340 for the Type S, I'm going German.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Most dont know that Hyundai/Kia have their own steel manufacturing companies. in fact, KIA started off as a steel tubing company in 1944.

Smart Koreans!

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I bought a slightly used, fully loaded X3 M40i for $46,850 (with taxes, fees, reg and plates). I personally would never buy anything new (just not worth it to me). All my personal vehicles have been bought slightly used and have lasted a very long time. If you really want proven performance with a great aftermarket support, go German and get one slightly used with CPO. Every time I drove the M40i, I don't regret buying it. It's such a fantastic vehicle. Now i'm dealing with the urge on getting a high flow down pipe and another reflash tune, because 355 hp and 418 TQ to all 4 wheels isn't enough . (I have a very mild tune)

Midnight Mystery

Justin!


Why are we arguing? All of these cars are nicer than say, a Chevy Malibu.

The new TLX may not be the most high tech, but does every driver want a high tech spaceship?

Think of what it would cost to fix that LCD speedometer after the car goes out after warranty.

BEAR-AvHistory

Since the senior guys doing the KIA & Hyundai are from BMW M & AUDI there will be a natural affinity toward the Korean cars. Have you ever seen that KIA instrument cluster before?

Mak P

I don't get it. Shouldn't you buy what you feel is better and like more?

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

WELL SAID
Life is way too short. Buy something you are happy with and don't regret, regardless of what the damn badge is.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Sorry MM, part of being car enthusiasts, you can discuss other vehicles that are current and are comparable. It's not meant to start an argument.. It's meant to be open minded and talk anything in the automotive industry. After all, it's what we car guys love to do! Welcome to life, not everyone walks around with "Good vibes only" tee shirts.

Midnight Mystery

Nah. It's ok. I get it. I just remember this thread being happy and bright several months ago. I just didn't expect the excitement to become disappointment so rapidly before the car even hit the lots.

On the flip side...

The good thing about expressing disappoint on a car forum expresses buyer dissatisfaction without direct hostility toward the brand.

In other words.... the Acura spies might be watching and hopefully listening.

Also, Acura's future lineup looks to be better than it was circa 2015-2017. Eh, whatever.

Everyone's opinion is welcome.

My personal opinion is everything being computerized is kinda silly. Sometimes I think I'm 23 going on 73. LOL. Sometimes I just want a late 90's Lexus or something. I miss the throttle cables.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

To be honest with you, I think BMW has employee's who read comments from reliable sites like xbimmers (bimmerpost). I've seen it mentioned by different groups. So you never know! They might be checking Acurazine.

Midnight Mystery

How we saw the RDX change for the 2019 MY coming from 2018 "might" suggest someone in Acura corporate read forum members complaining about the 2G RDX being too boring. Then again, that probably isn't the case.

Good to see BMW is actively listening to their followers.

I do think Infiniti has done this too, bringing Hydraulic steering back to the Q50 Sport, I think, which sounds super cool!

Midnight Mystery

A bit off the wall, I know, but I still can't believe Mitsubishi brought the Aztec back to life. Now that, IMO, is the ultimate "new car fail" of current time.


I will say this about Kia/Hyundai. In the older models, other than the engine issues of the 2.4, I really see no reason not to get one. I personally didn't care for the 2011 Optima I had. It wasn't that I disliked the car, I just couldn't get over the Korean driving dynamics. Had mine been a 2014-15 with the reprogrammed EPS I probably would have enjoyed it a lot more. I think I just got too big of a car for my needs. That, and trading a nice TL for it kind of soured my opinion of the Korean car maker. I think that sourness was more of my own emotional detest for downgrading to a less powerful, larger car. It wasn't bad and I see no reason a new model would be "cheap".

FWIW I hear the 2016-17+ Kia/Hyundais have really nice driving dynamics.

But I won't lie, if I was given a choice I'd still go with the TLX for really no reason beyond it's a Honda and may feel a little more familiar to me.

Kis dealers do suck so I hope to see that improved. Every Kia dealership I've been to was very "basic", blatantly ugly. But the cars in the showroom were super nice. It just feels weird being in a 20 year old showroom that feels like a Chevy dealer to see Stinger GTs on display.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I wasn't a huge fan of the steering on the Optima either. It feel disconnected and the 2.4 was under powered for me, but other wise a great vehicle for what it was. The dealership was the worse part! Every time I had them do something to the vehicle, I got it back filthy or incomplete repairs. They replaced all the clips on the headliner due to the rattle, the technicians didn't put the sunglasses holder back correctly, so one side was hanging down. I ended up doing it myself. They did something by the shifter and never plugged the cooled/heated seats connectors and the Aux lighter, I ended up doing it myself. The new Optimas feel and drive better but the 2011-2015 had a way better fit and finish interior vs the 2017-2020 models. The new K5 is better even in the base model (from all the video blogs and reviews I've seen). They are in the right direction and have a solid vehicle to compete with the base TLX. The Korean version K5 will have a full digital cluster and a rotary dial shifter. The US market doesn't.. I drove the Stinger GT2 and it's substantially better than the Optima.

Midnight Mystery

That pretty much sums it up perfectly.

I have noticed that the past decade or so, allcars come with a black interior and different seat color options. No more full on beige or gray interiors. Just black everything with beige seats. I kind of think this is to conceal those pesky gaps in the plastics. but I could imagine.

I am curious how the 1.6T DCT Optima drives. That seems like a cool combo.

Strangely though, I found our 2007 Kia Sportage had better fit/finish than the Optima despite the use of hard plastics everywhere. The Sportage had decent steering feel too.

LOL if you know me you'd know the only deal breaker for me in a car is steering feel. I think it just got to my head with the Optima.

It is a good little daily, work, uber car though. Definitely big enough for a sedan. Pushing 8G Accord or Avalon in terms of size!

leomio85

Let's not forget, the G70 is getting a facelift for 2021. Who knows what other goodies it will get. Also, who knows what Infiniti is going to bring with the next gen Q50. They're desperate, and sometimes, great things come out of desperation ... they're likely going to look at their next Q50/Q60 as a "make or break" vehicle, among other vehicles in their line-up. Also, the new M3 is coming with 473HP for the base one, 503 for the competition model, giving the M340i some more wiggle room to go up in power without angering the M crowd. The other two will likely follow suit. By the time the new TLX Type-S comes out, it may get washed away in some stiff competition and may not stand out as anything special.

Midnight Mystery

IMO, the current Q50 (sedan/coupe) is a sweet whip.


Everything else in their lineup

Legend2TL

+1 QFT, some of the postings are on par with the 2G NSX a few years ago

+1, yeah I'll wait and see what comes out then make final judgement.

So by your "logic", the 1G NSX was also a stinker since it also was also expensive and not a sales success?
I'll extrapolate that some more since the McLaren F1 was also very expensive and not a sales success (250 was the goal, but only sold 106).
Oh yeah, calling the 2G NSX a stinker
Keep drinking your brand of bitter Koolaid

Tony Pac

If the current infiniti Q50/60 isn't selling with an amazing power and pretty good looking car (yes the interior is a bit outdated but lest's be honest, those 400HP Q50's are selling $20K+ less than the Germans.). I am not sure about Infiniti at this point. I lost hope after hearing "Nissan Plus". Infiniti had two great cars in the last 20 years. G35 and G37 and FX. They couldn't even take advantage of the current market with their QX50, which is a major FLOP!!!!

Legend2TL

+1 yeah, some of the automakers have done some far out there businesses nothing related to auto's.
Hyundai also made IC's in the 90's but got out of that business.
Subaru make the huge wing center box structure for the Boeing 777.
Porsche helped redesign the cockpit of the Airbus 300B.

https://www.subaru.com.au/news/fhi-c...entre-wing-box

fiatlux

What’s with the revisionist history? Not only did the 1G NSX sell almost as many units in its FIRST YEAR as the 2G NSX has sold in its entire existence over the past four years, but it received unanimous praise for being a technical marvel while also being daily driveable. Total game changer for what a super car could be. The critical response to the 2G NSX pales in comparison and can be described as tepid at best. I doubt the current NSX will ever sell more units in its entire history than just the first 2 years of the 1G NSX’s life.

ESHBG

The problem is the cars are not practical for many. Coupes in general don't do too well anymore and the Q50 is pretty tight so it doesn't make a good daily driver for most people...so both models don't really fit into any niche. They are nice cars, though, and for the right price I would not be opposed to owning one; I sat in a new Q50 and liked it a lot.

Legend2TL

You're getting rightfully called out by me for your ridiculous hyperbole original response.

If you really knew the 1G NSX, you would know it's custom built single purpose facility in Japan had the capacity to produce 25 NSX/day but in the first three years averaged ~6NSX/day for the US market.
Honda's board was frustrated with it from a business point of view, it was the old man's dream along with the F1 racing program (which through Honda world marketing was very successful, the NSX not much).
Personally I'm kinda surprised they even did the 2G knowing how much more crowded the exotic market competition is in 2017 vs. 1990.

Is the 2G perfect and captures the essense of the 1G? No, but it's also Honda's modern interpretation of the original intent being a everyday supercar which it is.
But is it a stinker as you describe? No, it's gotten very favorable reviews. Not a 488/Hurican slayer but it's competive with R8's and other lesser exotics.
Same goes for the RDX, the 3G production numbers are ~20% higher than the 2G.

Acura's slowly coming back lately (being the last 2-3 years, ~2010-2017 are pretty sad) with the NSX and RDX, so your negative comment may play well with the Debbie Downers on the thread but does not reflect reality.

Tony Pac

I am not an "enthusiast" and don't know about cars, except being a "fanboy" but let me tell you something. The current gen NSX is a state of art. That car is worth more than $150-200K. But Acura has a major problem with NSX. PRICE!!!

The first gen NSX was priced very reasonably and it was affordable compared to all other supercars. Acura/Honda doesn't have the supercar logo. Supercar lovers won't pay $200K for Acura/Honda. if Acura prices it $100K-120K. It would have been a huge success.

Tony Pac

I agree and disagree with you.

I totally disagree that Q50 is tight. I drove Q50S for an entire day and it had more room than C300, 3 series and A4. So it fits perfectly in that segment. The coupe is a different story.
I totally agree that it's a nice car and for that price, I will take a 400HP Q50 over a BMW 330. In terms of price they are very similar at the moment (at least in Canada).

BEAR-AvHistory

They are very big in customer support & keeping their ear to the ground. Porsche & Mazda (Miata) have similar programs.

"Founded in 1969, BMW CCA has grown to become the world’s largest owner supported single-marque car club. Today, BMW CCA has 67 chapters nationwide, with more than 70,000 dues paying members mutually enhancing one another’s BMW ownership experience. As BMW’s most active and vibrant enthusiast organization, the club represents a lifestyle of passion and performance as powerful as the cars our members drive." My chapter is the Tar Heel Chapter & runs its performance driver school at VIR. A number of track days are also run at VIR. Overall its pretty active with at least one driving event a month & a monthly dinner. Several National Champion drivers are from the chapter.

Membership is $45 a year & worth up to a $1500 check when you buy a new BMW, minimum check is $500 based on the cars MSRP. They also support through the club one of the largest customer racing programs in the country. Run High Performance Driving Schools. Parts & service discounts etc.

Tony Pac

Impressive!

BEAR-AvHistory

Quick thing on badges. When I lived in England we were is a village about 35 miles west of London. Train station, single 5 block long, one traffic light, "high street" with a Honda store. The window car was an NSX. Had a HONDA logo on it.

Tony Pac

Correct! When I went to Germany in 2019 I saw a NSX but it was HONDA logo on it. If I am not mistaken even in Japan is Honda NSX.

fiatlux

That’s because early Acura’s were all rebadged Hondas. Acura didn’t start diverging from Honda until the 2000s. Even then there was still rebadging going on; the TSX was a rebadged EDM Accord.

ESHBG

If you carry back seat passengers regularly and/or for long periods of time there are much better options than this segment. I don't have to worry about that regularly so for me it is a non issue but I wouldn't want to deal with car seats and getting kids in and out often in most cars in this segment.