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Looks pretty different from the Type-S concept, unless Type-S and regular will have different designs. Being in full camo, not sure it'll be announced soon.
Things that changed from the concept:
- rear diffuser delete
-side splitter delete
-shark fin add
-b pillar add
-side mirror increase
-caliper placement relocated
Hopefully the rear quarter window angle, or the fake one is retained from the concept.
Based on the leaked infotainment images from the RDX we will still have that rear quarter window angle or the fake one, it's just hidden by the camo right now.
They could possibly add a rear diffuser later, even the current TLX A Spec has one. As for the brake discs, I think they look to about the same size as the concept. Obviously the production will have better calipers, possibly colored?
I honestly see more resemblance to the Type S concept then I expected.
B pillar add, shark fin, side mirrors were expected to be added after the concept. They actually kept the tail lights look.
Agreed, but at the same time if they are staggering the Type-S release after the 4-cylinder release (Still unknown obviously) it will likely be going against a fully refreshed A4/S4 in its second year and we can clearly see that the Germans do not sit idly by in the horsepower wars right now. New C-Class is currently in development as well and I've seen rumors of the C53 (turbo mild-hybrid inline 6) all the way down to utilizing the A45S engine for AMG-Lite. Regardless, both are considerable performance upgrades on the current bi-turbo V6.
Think once the 500BHP M3/4 are out the regular 3/4 series during the mid cycle upgrade will move up from 382BHP that C&D tested at 3.8 seconds @ 60MPH to 405/410BHP or so. The smaller 2018 M2 was rated at 365BHP & its already gone to 405BHP in the 2019 model. The standard 3/4 & the M2 have had similar power ratings in the past.
That said they are at a point where 30BHP boosts don't show a lot of performance improvement, but the number makes good advertising copy.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-07-2020 at 01:06 PM.
Great points. The biggest issue with Acura is by the time the Type S comes out, in its second year or so, all the German vehicles will have over 400HP.
Once again, the TLX will be not competitive
but at least for now, let’s bring the regular TLX followed by the Type S. It will definitely boost sales and Acura brand image.
It's slower than the M340i, but 4.2s 0-60 is no joke. That HP rating has to be hugely underrated in typical German fashion.
The Type-S will have a tough time against the German like the Q50 Red Sport(which has 400hp)
I never said it’s slow. On paper S4 is the weakest one. And yes if you follow my posts, I have always said I don’t care for 400HP and Acura shouldn’t chase the power number. Acura’s strengths are price, reliability and resale value. We like it or not but this is the reality. I always said if HP was the only reason, Infiniti would have been in a different level. Yet Infiniti’s 400 HP is a total flop and the company is at the merge of closing its door.
I never said it’s slow. On paper S4 is the weakest one. And yes if you follow my posts, I have always said I don’t care for 400HP and Acura shouldn’t chase the power number. Acura’s strengths are price, reliability and resale value. We like it or not but this is the reality. I always said if HP was the only reason, Infiniti would have been in a different level. Yet Infiniti’s 400 HP is a total flop and the company is at the merge of closing its door.
Well your post above gave us a different impression when you said you hope the Type-S falls in the middle. That means the HP numbers have to be closer to 400 and 0-60 around 4.1(C43 does that)just to be competitive.
Yall,
I just saw the commercial that shows the Type S TLX towards the end of the commercial and it still looks like the concept for the most part. They didnt show it long, but that was definitely the Type S!!! From what I could see, it looked like the side mirrors were a little bigger, but thats all I noticed so far. I still cant wait to buy it from what I could see.
Pretty certain they wouldn't put it in a commercial before even posting a press release for it. Especially not if it was light blue, and the only noticeable change were the mirrors...
Seeing these type of commercials from Acura is a bit infuriating as a customer. I can think of at least one model that can destroy that, forget beat current models. NSX is already feeling kinda old by now. Saying beat that on a yet released type S, sure....
One thing they do need right now is for sure more talk on future models.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 03-09-2020 at 10:04 AM.
Well, if Acura put electric motors in the Type-S, it'll increase the hp and tq for sure. Just like RLX SH (377hp now). And throw in a turbo setup, 400+ should not be an issue.
Seeing these type of commercials from Acura is a bit infuriating as a customer. I can think of at least one model that can destroy that, forget beat current models. NSX is already feeling kinda old by now. Saying beat that on a yet released type S, sure....
One thing they do need right now is for sure more talk on future models.
I think you missed the small font at the bottom that says: "Beat That comparisons only apply to competitor models of a similar price when comparably equipped. Beat That is not valid when comparing against higher-priced models."
Really, what does that say compared to what you have now.
What I have now? A car that isn't a black hole in terms of maintenance costs (Audi). Yes, the acceleration off the line is disappointing [TLX], since it's not RWD, is a bit heavy, and it doesn't have much low end torque.
Plus, no way I would pay $50,000 for a car without 4 second or less 0-60. As I mentioned in the past, I had an Audi A6 for a couple weeks and by the end, I couldn't wait to get back to my TLX.
Turning off traction control has made my TLX acceptable - if I had to keep TC on, I simply would have found the car unacceptable.
Am I fully satisfied? No, I want: RWD, higher power to weight ratio, more torque, and a slightly less "bouncy/floaty" suspension. I absolutely want more visceral excitement, not "smooth". Acura engineers purposefully made the TLX too smooth - not what I expected from a brand w/the slogan: "Precision Performance". No, their slogan should be: "Decent quality daily drivers for families and retired folks who like to avid excitement".
If it weren't for what I would expect to be silly high maintenance costs, the car that would suit me would probably be a BMW 228 w/a Turbo on the engine? My budget is under $30K.
Last edited by Christopher.; 03-09-2020 at 12:00 PM.
I'm glad to see Brembos (or similar) on the front.
On the other hand, more money spent on brakes probably means less money spent on power.
Starting with the 2019 RDX’s development, the top brass in Japan finally allowed Acura access to larger and more plentiful resources to better execute products. We’ve seen the massive upgrades the 2019 RDX had over the 2G RDX. Expect even greater upgrades for the TLX and MDX as both will debut with features never before found on any Acura to date.
Power from the 3.0t should be AT LEAST 370hp with a special version of SH-AWD reserved for Type-S models.
What I have now? A car that isn't a black hole in terms of maintenance costs (Audi).
Turning off traction control has made my TLX acceptable - if I had to keep TC on, I simply would have found the car unacceptable.
No, their slogan should be: "Decent quality daily drivers for families and retired folks who like to avid excitement".
Needing to turn off TC all the time would be enough for me to axe the car from my list. Having all the safety tech, but turing off the basic system defeats the family aspect right away.
As for costs, cheap for now until tech stops working.
What I have now? A car that isn't a black hole in terms of maintenance costs (Audi). Yes, the acceleration off the line is disappointing [TLX], since it's not RWD, is a bit heavy, and it doesn't have much low end torque.
Plus, no way I would pay $50,000 for a car without 4 second or less 0-60. As I mentioned in the past, I had an Audi A6 for a couple weeks and by the end, I couldn't wait to get back to my TLX.
Turning off traction control has made my TLX acceptable - if I had to keep TC on, I simply would have found the car unacceptable.
Am I fully satisfied? No, I want: RWD, higher power to weight ratio, more torque, and a slightly less "bouncy/floaty" suspension. I absolutely want more visceral excitement, not "smooth". Acura engineers purposefully made the TLX too smooth - not what I expected from a brand w/the slogan: "Precision Performance". No, their slogan should be: "Decent quality daily drivers for families and retired folks who like to avid excitement".
If it weren't for what I would expect to be silly high maintenance costs, the car that would suit me would probably be a BMW 228 w/a Turbo on the engine? My budget is under $30K.
You have to identify the problem here which wasn’t the Acura engineers but the top brass in Japan who cut development costs back before the current generation of Acura’s started their development cycles. The current TLX, MDX, RLX and ILX all suffered the cutbacks and those cutback were clearly evident in the final product execution.
After the Acura briskness planning office, a new president/CEO (Hachigo) and John Ikeda’s promotion were all in tact, Hachigo gave Acura more resources to revamp, remake and rethink the entire Acura lineup. The first all new vehicle under the new management was the 2019 RDX. Although it’s had some teething issues, the design, performance, materials, features etc etc are all monumentally superior to the current. Expect that trend to gain momentum with the new TLX and MDX as both will debut all new drivetrains, platforms, tech, design, better materials and features never found before on any Acura. The TLX will actually move up a tier in its segment as the base 2.4 car will go away. The TLX 2.0t will replace the current TLX V6 and the Type-S 3.0 turbo will be the top tier TLX. I think people will be surprised and impressed by the level of progress made here.
What I have now? A car that isn't a black hole in terms of maintenance costs (Audi). Yes, the acceleration off the line is disappointing [TLX], since it's not RWD, is a bit heavy, and it doesn't have much low end torque.
Plus, no way I would pay $50,000 for a car without 4 second or less 0-60. As I mentioned in the past, I had an Audi A6 for a couple weeks and by the end, I couldn't wait to get back to my TLX.
Turning off traction control has made my TLX acceptable - if I had to keep TC on, I simply would have found the car unacceptable.
Am I fully satisfied? No, I want: RWD, higher power to weight ratio, more torque, and a slightly less "bouncy/floaty" suspension. I absolutely want more visceral excitement, not "smooth". Acura engineers purposefully made the TLX too smooth - not what I expected from a brand w/the slogan: "Precision Performance". No, their slogan should be: "Decent quality daily drivers for families and retired folks who like to avid excitement".
If it weren't for what I would expect to be silly high maintenance costs, the car that would suit me would probably be a BMW 228 w/a Turbo on the engine? My budget is under $30K.
Needing to turn off TC all the time would be enough for me to axe the car from my list. Having all the safety tech, but turing off the basic system defeats the family aspect right away.
As for costs, cheap for now until tech stops working.
The cost of replacement down the road, if you are planning on keeping the car for a long time, may indeed be a good reason not to get a trim level which includes the "Technology Package". I might just go ahead and purchase an additional "extended warranty" when my current one expires, because of that very issue.
What I mean by that [...turn off TC all the time], is holding the button for a few seconds, this disables only a few basic aspects of the Traction Control system and only for speeds BELOW 40Mph - anti lock breaking, stability control, etc., are all left on - what I am primarily changing is the heinous reduction in low speed acceleration, which, in my opinion, actually is less safe to leave on (unless you drive like my grandma, which I don't want to do).
Audi maintenance costs are notorious for being heinously (IMO) high. Also, my father nearly cried when I told him I was considering getting a used BMW 228i, to replace my 2018 Acura TLX - he pleaded w/me not to do it because "maintenance costs would be a nightmare, guaranteed" (according to him).
Your chart looks backwards to me - something like this (although there are probably better ones) is more like what I'm accustomed to:
Last edited by Christopher.; 03-09-2020 at 04:17 PM.
Reason: picture displayed as DATA WTF?!?
Audi maintenance costs are notorious for being heinously (IMO) high. Also, my father nearly cried when I told him I was considering getting a used BMW 228i, to replace my 2018 Acura TLX - he pleaded w/me not to do it because "maintenance costs would be a nightmare, guaranteed" (according to him).
Your chart looks backwards to me - something like this (although there are probably better ones) is more like what I'm accustomed to:
My chart is the reported reliability of current cars by their owners for the last three years 2017,2018,2019. Yours might be from when Acura still was near the top of the reliability charts, those days are gone. If a car is reliable it does not need extra maintenance. FWIW or not my 2004 ran for 10 years & cost me not including tire or brake pads under $1500 out of pocket. My last 4 including the 2013 now almost 8 years old have cost me nothing other then brakes & tires.
I tend to buy fresh disks every other pad change. Disclosure all work is done by myself so the cost will be less than an indi shop but nothing I have done in general maintenance is brain surgery. Oil changes run a few bucks more than the TL because they take 8 quarts instead of the TL/TLX 4.
Thing is with a $30K budget talking about a stripped 2 series is even over your budget. The small engined 4 cylinder 248BHP 230 coupe opens at $36,000
Not an Audi person but AFAIK Audi is warranties for 4 years 50,000 miles. They also offer a maintenance plan that covers services at 10,20,30,40K miles for around $800 MSRP. It becomes part of the sales deal. It's part of the cars price & gets discounted along with any discounts you make as part of your buy.
To pick a random sales number of $50,000 thats less than 1% of the cars cost.My chart is the reported reliability of current cars by their owners for the last three years 2017,2018,2019. Yours might be from when Acura still was near the top of the reliability charts, those days are gone. If a car is reliable it does not need extra maintenance. FWIW or not my 2004 BMW ran for 10 years & cost me not including tire or brake pads under $1500 out of pocket. My last 4 including the 2013 now almost 8 years old have cost me nothing other then brakes & tires.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-09-2020 at 08:12 PM.
My chart is the reported reliability of current cars by their owners for the last three years 2017,2018,2019. Yours might be from when Acura still was near the top of the reliability charts, those days are gone. If a car is reliable it does not need extra maintenance. FWIW or not my 2004 ran for 10 years & cost me not including tire or brake pads under $1500 out of pocket. My last 4 including the 2013 now almost 8 years old have cost me nothing other then brakes & tires.
I tend to buy fresh disks every other pad change. Disclosure all work is done by myself so the cost will be less than an indi shop but nothing I have done in general maintenance is brain surgery. Oil changes run a few bucks more than the TL because they take 8 quarts instead of the TL/TLX 4.
Why does it always seem to be a crap shoot? I've always kept away at German because of the cost rumors long term. You've had great results, my friend blew his engine on his E92 M3. Something with the VANOS failing. And other friends had random computer issues. I've had Acura's going back to 1997 and haven't had any issues so I may be an anomaly based on that reliability chart. I'd love to get a BMW but need to keep my cars longer than 4-5 years. I had so much fun driving an M3 at an event they threw a while back.
Why does it always seem to be a crap shoot? I've always kept away at German because of the cost rumors long term. You've had great results, my friend blew his engine on his E92 M3. Something with the VANOS failing. And other friends had random computer issues. I've had Acura's going back to 1997 and haven't had any issues so I may be an anomaly based on that reliability chart. I'd love to get a BMW but need to keep my cars longer than 4-5 years. I had so much fun driving an M3 at an event they threw a while back.
Because every brand has a car come off the line that sucks on occasion. That's why you need to follow the reliability trends because on occasion every brand will have a whole line that sucks. Not sure how a VANOS fail would kill an engine. VANOS is BMW's VTEC. Major suck on the E series was bad fuel pumps up into the 2010 model year. They cleared the problem around March & added extended warranties out to 8 years & 82,000 miles. My E series was a 2011 so I missed that problem.
The 135IS E88 series had a M55 engine that was introduced after the E series N54 that had the fuel pump issue & was used in the early F series like my 2014 435.The last two were F series (my current F series 440 has a B58 engine) which was pretty problem free & resulted in BMW moving up in the surveys.
That said an M car is much more likely to be abused then a normal one. Personally would never ever buy a used one.
The German makers recognize their lack luster early 2000 efforts were the whole bunch except Porsche were below industry standards. Today they are all above the industry mid point. At the same time I believe Honda was resting on its, IMHO laurels, and went from the top of the list to below industry standard.
Remember like them or not the surveys are actual owners filling out the form.
They are all moving targets a car that was great last generation can suck this generation. How many guys would buy an out of warranty 2015 TLX with a 9 speed AT VS how many guys would buy a TL 6AT?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-09-2020 at 08:48 PM.
You have to identify the problem here which wasn’t the Acura engineers but the top brass in Japan who cut development costs back before the current generation of Acura’s started their development cycles. The current TLX, MDX, RLX and ILX all suffered the cutbacks and those cutback were clearly evident in the final product execution.
After the Acura briskness planning office, a new president/CEO (Hachigo) and John Ikeda’s promotion were all in tact, Hachigo gave Acura more resources to revamp, remake and rethink the entire Acura lineup. The first all new vehicle under the new management was the 2019 RDX. Although it’s had some teething issues, the design, performance, materials, features etc etc are all monumentally superior to the current. Expect that trend to gain momentum with the new TLX and MDX as both will debut all new drivetrains, platforms, tech, design, better materials and features never found before on any Acura. The TLX will actually move up a tier in its segment as the base 2.4 car will go away. The TLX 2.0t will replace the current TLX V6 and the Type-S 3.0 turbo will be the top tier TLX. I think people will be surprised and impressed by the level of progress made here.
Any idea if sport hybrid (or some version of performance hybrid and not 48v mild hybrid) will make its way in next generation of TLX/MDX? Since all companies are going towards hybrids and looking at Honda's intentions, those should be part of lineup at some point in time. Why invest so much in this generation and throw all that knowledge when market is more ready to accept performance hybrids?
How long before a car is released do they wrap up the "driving in camo" testing?
I work for another large Japanese automotive brand and this is pretty damn close to production. They’re more than likely doing some fine tuning on the safety systems, tranny logic etc etc.
Any idea if sport hybrid (or some version of performance hybrid and not 48v mild hybrid) will make its way in next generation of TLX/MDX? Since all companies are going towards hybrids and looking at Honda's intentions, those should be part of lineup at some point in time. Why invest so much in this generation and throw all that knowledge when market is more ready to accept performance hybrids?
From what I’ve heard, the Sport Hybrid system is done and the 48v mild hybrid system will be implemented but I don’t know for sure if its in the TLX but I’m positive its in the MDX.
Thought this might or might not be of interest on long term reliability & parts dying. This is from memory & being an old fart might forget something but it should be close. Seems to me the truck with all round use including off road during hunting season has been way more reliable than most cars are.
I bought the 4X4 Ranger in the summer/fall of 1997 as a 1998 model year. Current mileage in unknown as the odometer crapped out around 140,000 miles 10 years ago.
Again all work performed by me & mostly parts through Rock Auto not the dealer.
Parts replaced not necessarily in exact order.
1 Starter
on 3rd or 4th battery
1 Fuel Pump
2 Tail light bulbs
2 cloudy Headlights
2 Transfer case motors
1 Radiator Fan Clutch
1 Clutch Assembly - Throwout bearing, Disc, Pressure plate
1 Shifter bushing
2 Universal Joints
12 spark plugs
1 AC compressor
1 AC Receiver Drier/Accumulator
1 Refrigerant charge
2 Serpentine belts
1 Water Pump
1 thermostat
2 O2 Sensors
1 Mass Air Flow Sensor
1 Alternator
Truck still has the original exhaust system might add duals at some point but if/when the engine dies will upgrade from a V6 to a V8
Picture last year when we were doing an addition to the house & it got booted off the driveway
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-09-2020 at 09:28 PM.
Apologies for jumping in the middle, but I cannot believe when people say Audi or BMW will cost you cheaper to maintain! Let's be honest and ignore these "beautiful" charts.
If Acura still sales over 150K units and surpassing Infiniti is its reliability, initial cost and resale value! Acura is an excellent car when it comes to cost of ownership.
Another thing to mention is that these numbers don't show the exact problems. We know that the RDX had a number of issues but most are infotainment which have been fixed through frequent updates. You should take the numbers with a grain of salt, a big one in fact. The other cars most likely don't have major issues relating to the infotainment but relate to the mechanical portion. Now you tell me, which is worse? Having a software issued which are being fixed automatically or mechanical issues that require you to step out and lose your car for a day or so?
These numbers are not accurate at all due to the fact that the RDX initially had issues with the infotainment.
My chart is the reported reliability of current cars by their owners for the last three years 2017,2018,2019.
Assuming these years are referring to model years, those cars, in all likelihood, were still under warranty, and still new enough that major components hadn't started to fail. Give it a few years, and let's see how they're all doing.
This has been (and maybe still is) an issue with Consumer Reports' reliability ratings. When I bought a Saab 9-5 Aero in 2001, the 9-5 range was "recommended" by CR, in part because it had a solid reliability record. Unfortunately, three critical components on the Aero frequently failed at around 50,000 miles, and thus weren't in CR's data in 2001. Mine experienced two of these failures, both of which rendered the car undrivable and required flatbed rides to the dealer. Once these failures showed up in the data, the 9-5 was no longer recommended, and I could see how the 9-5's record in the corresponding reliability categories had declined precipitously. Eventually, one of these issues prompted a recall, and Saab refunded my repair costs.
Another thing to mention is that these numbers don't show the exact problems. We know that the RDX had a number of issues but most are infotainment which have been fixed through frequent updates. You should take the numbers with a grain of salt, a big one in fact. The other cars most likely don't have major issues relating to the infotainment but relate to the mechanical portion. Now you tell me, which is worse? Having a software issued which are being fixed automatically or mechanical issues that require you to step out and lose your car for a day or so?
These numbers are not accurate at all due to the fact that the RDX initially had issues with the infotainment.
Thank you! This is a great point but most people love to see the colorful charts and ignore the rest. I will believe these charts when they will show me the issue and cost over a certain period.
For example, RDX with 7 issues: cost of repair $600
Audi Q5 2 issues: cost of repair $1,900
Then we will discuss...right now this is just blah blah!
03-06-2020, 09:16 AM
