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I think its bad news for the TLX that Toyota is adding AWD to Camry and Avalon. Toyota AWD probably wont be as good as SHAWD but it would be enough to get me in the door to take a look.
I don't agree. I believe it will hurt Accord's sales and as a result, people will go to TLX.
At the end of the day, look at the Altima. did it hurt Accord or Camry's sales numbers? the day, Accord comes with AWD, it will be a huge problem for TLX, unless by that time TLX is next level in terms of engine, features and power.
I'd argue that even though the 3G faired well against the competitor's models it was specifically targeting, Acura did not have an answer for something like the M3, which precludes it from being in the performance conversation.
Agree they did not have an M competitor did not say they did. They did however have a head to head competitor with what is now the M340. The 330-ZHP was the M340 of its time. There is no way in hell that Acura is going to sell a 510bhp Acura TLX-S to compete with the new M 3/4 series.
It never targeted the M series & all the road tests for the 3G were against the standard brands "civilian" performance versions.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-24-2020 at 03:36 PM.
Agree they did not have an M competitor did not say they did. They did however have a head to head competitor with what is now the M340. The 330-ZHP was the M340 of its time. There is no way in hell that Acura is going to sell a 510bhp Acura TLX-S to compete with the new M 3/4 series.
It never targeted the M series & all the road tests for the 3G were against the standard brands "civilian" performance versions.
Why would they. Even BMW doesn't move too many M units and they are a maintenance nightmare anyways.
Why would they. Even BMW doesn't move too many M units and they are a maintenance nightmare anyways.
They are not “maintenance nightmares” if you drive them reasonably on the street. Keep in mind that the BMW M-series are bonafide track cars and many M-owners enjoy taking their car to the track to push them to their limits. In that case, it is expected that you will have higher maintenance costs.
Acura TLX Type-S, if it ever gets released, will supposedly compete with the M340i. As an M340i owner I can tell you that I’ve had ZERO problems with my M340i in the first 10 months of ownership. The car is a joy to drive, it is best described as a fully refined beast! Compare that to my 2015 TLX which was a complete lemon and spent 60+ days at the dealership in my first year (and only year) that I owned it. Not to mention it had none of the performance ACURA promised and continues to pretend it has in their commercials.
They are not “maintenance nightmares” if you drive them reasonably on the street. Keep in mind that the BMW M-series are bonafide track cars and many M-owners enjoy taking their car to the track to push them to their limits. In that case, it is expected that you will have higher maintenance costs.
Acura TLX Type-S, if it ever gets released, will supposedly compete with the M340i. As an M340i owner I can tell you that I’ve had ZERO problems with my M340i in the first 10 months of ownership. The car is a joy to drive, it is best described as a fully refined beast! Compare that to my 2015 TLX which was a complete lemon and spent 60+ days at the dealership in my first year (and only year) that I owned it. Not to mention it had none of the performance ACURA promised and continues to pretend it has in their commercials.
Is that a 330 with the m package or M340i? I thought the M340i came with aluminum finish side view mirrors and different style grill.
I agree with your sentiments regarding the trouble free maintenance. I left Acura 2 years ago after my TLX lease was up. Couldn’t stand the sluggish transmission.
My 2018 340i m sport has been reliable as ever. I’d love to jump into the latest one but I’m waiting to see what acura has up its sleeve. I hate how quiet they’re being about the type s. I am starting to lose interest. Someone mentioned that new sport version of the arteon and it honestly looks really good.
Someone mentioned that new sport version of the arteon and it honestly looks really good.
Yup, if the price is right could be a proper replacement of my A4. Which has been mechanically problem free for over 2 years now. Only thing wrong with it was a defective air chamber in driver's seat. Plus usual software recalls done at yearly oil change routine. If Type-S is delayed due to issues, not touching it at all. Deja vu of my old TLX, not giving Acura a second chance just yet.
Is that a 330 with the m package or M340i? I thought the M340i came with aluminum finish side view mirrors and different style grill.
I agree with your sentiments regarding the trouble free maintenance. I left Acura 2 years ago after my TLX lease was up. Couldn’t stand the sluggish transmission.
My 2018 340i m sport has been reliable as ever. I’d love to jump into the latest one but I’m waiting to see what acura has up its sleeve. I hate how quiet they’re being about the type s. I am starting to lose interest. Someone mentioned that new sport version of the arteon and it honestly looks really good.
Funny, I've been looking up the M240i as my second car if the Type S is not what they say it will be.
I don't agree. I believe it will hurt Accord's sales and as a result, people will go to TLX.
At the end of the day, look at the Altima. did it hurt Accord or Camry's sales numbers? the day, Accord comes with AWD, it will be a huge problem for TLX, unless by that time TLX is next level in terms of engine, features and power.
I don't agree. Honda/Toyota owners can be a brand loyal bunch and overall Nissan is a slight step down from them so throwing AWD on the Altima didn't do much to hurt the others' sales because A) I don't think Nissan marketed the AWD aspect very well which I feel is a missed opportunity B) Most people Camry/Accord shopping probably don't think about or care too much about AWD. That will change for Toyota fans now, though, since their brand is putting it in front of them. A shame it's only on the 4 cylinder, though.
I don't think that the majority of those AWD shopping at the Camry level are also going to cross shop a TLX.
I don't agree. Honda/Toyota owners can be a brand loyal bunch and overall Nissan is a slight step down from them so throwing AWD on the Altima didn't do much to hurt the others' sales because A) I don't think Nissan marketed the AWD aspect very well which I feel is a missed opportunity B) Most people Camry/Accord shopping probably don't think about or care too much about AWD. That will change for Toyota fans now, though, since their brand is putting it in front of them. A shame it's only on the 4 cylinder, though.
I don't think that the majority of those AWD shopping at the Camry level are also going to cross shop a TLX.
The take rate for the V6 model was something like 6%, so the opportunity size of offering that engine would have been quite small. Consider that they would have had to build it up from scratch; the only reason the Camry was able to get AWD was because they were able to reuse the RAV4 powertrain, and even then they had to do quite a bit of modifications to the existing Camry to get it to fit.
Why would they. Even BMW doesn't move too many M units and they are a maintenance nightmare anyways.
BMW has killed the maintenance issues over 10 years ago. Spend under $1500 on a 125,000 mile 330. Nothing but BMW covered oil/filiters/brakes/fluids on the 2011 335is /2014 340 /2018 440. Every major cunsumer reporting agency will support this. CR currently has 4 2020 models on its recommended list Acura has 1
BMW does not move many M units because they are very pricey compared to the top performing regular series cars. As mentioned they are geared to track day buyers % a M3 can cost 3X as much as an entry level 3 series.
The take rate for the V6 model was something like 6%, so the opportunity size of offering that engine would have been quite small. Consider that they would have had to build it up from scratch; the only reason the Camry was able to get AWD was because they were able to reuse the RAV4 powertrain, and even then they had to do quite a bit of modifications to the existing Camry to get it to fit.
Yep and Toyota U.S. had to build this one on their own. Still unfortunate and I can see a chicken/egg argument: would more V6s sell if it had the AWD? But realistically the V6 probably isn't long for this world unfortunately so they are planning ahead and are ready for a turbo [or whatever] 4 cylinder.
First, an Arteon R with 400 hp, and now, rumors of the upcoming STI getting the same. Loving how the mainstream manufacturers are upping their game. Type-S should have been out yesterday. Acura is going to look a bit silly if the Type-S comes under significantly. Yes, I know power isn't the only metric, but it's one of the first things enthusiasts look at.
First, an Arteon R with 400 hp, and now, rumors of the upcoming STI getting the same. Loving how the mainstream manufacturers are upping their game. Type-S should have been out yesterday. Acura is going to look a bit silly if the Type-S comes under significantly. Yes, I know power isn't the only metric, but it's one of the first things enthusiasts look at.
Only seeing the Arteon R making 329HP. The Subaru STi making 400HP is just a myth at this point without any real substance behind it. Besides, people generally don't cross-shop WRXs and TLXs.
Only seeing the Arteon R making 329HP. The Subaru STi making 400HP is just a myth at this point without any real substance behind it. Besides, people generally don't cross-shop WRXs and TLXs.
From article, "it reportedly packs a new 3.0-liter turbocharged VR6 with over 400 horsepower". We shall see what Acura packs in it, should at least match up with other 3L turbos at 350++
Is that a 330 with the m package or M340i? I thought the M340i came with aluminum finish side view mirrors and different style grill.
I agree with your sentiments regarding the trouble free maintenance. I left Acura 2 years ago after my TLX lease was up. Couldn’t stand the sluggish transmission.
My 2018 340i m sport has been reliable as ever. I’d love to jump into the latest one but I’m waiting to see what acura has up its sleeve. I hate how quiet they’re being about the type s. I am starting to lose interest. Someone mentioned that new sport version of the arteon and it honestly looks really good.
It’s an M340i. I took delivery in May and I had all of the cerium gray trim replaced before I took delivery. It wasn’t easy. Most of the trim had to be ordered from Germany and some had to be painted once they arrived. Today, most of this is available as a port-installed option. These pics were taken the day I took delivery. Since then I have replaced the gloss black grille with vertical slats with the gloss black “mesh” grille.
BMW has killed the maintenance issues over 10 years ago. Spend under $1500 on a 125,000 mile 330. Nothing but BMW covered oil/filiters/brakes/fluids on the 2011 335is /2014 340 /2018 440. Every major cunsumer reporting agency will support this. CR currently has 4 2020 models on its recommended list Acura has 1
BMW does not move many M units because they are very pricey compared to the top performing regular series cars. As mentioned they are geared to track day buyers % a M3 can cost 3X as much as an entry level 3 series.
Please stop the fairy tales. Just because a few of you had few issues on your almost brand new BMW's does not mean they have Lexus reliability now. I hope they have fixed all the issues with their latest models because going back just a few years tells a differnt story.
I hope someone from Acura comes here and read this thread
People are frustrated, upset and losing hope. Over 1,000 messages are exchanged, everyone is speculating on the date, engine, HP and etc. Yet Acura hasn't shown any sign of progress.
I hope Acura doesn't show the Blue concept for 3 years before releasing the actual car....Legit laughing!
Please stop the fairy tales. Just because a few of you had few issues on your almost brand new BMW's does not mean they have Lexus reliability now. I hope they have fixed all the issues with their latest models because going back just a few years tells a differnt story.
2011 through now being into 2020 is 10 years. The 2004 330Ci ZHP was 10 years old when it was sold & had 125,000 miles on it. The 2013 is now 7 years old with 87,000 miles on it & no money in it outside of brakes tires filters & fluids. The 2011 335IS was modded out to 410WHP & never missed a beat 50,000+ miles when sold. Second owner runs the same autocross series I run the COBRA in & the car is still running strong. The 135is has been running a JB4 since new. The 2014 & 2018 both run the factory performance mods & are relatively low mileage cars. 2014 had 36,000 when sold & the 2018 has 17,000 & will go this summer. Neither of these cars has been in for any warranty work. Once a year into the dealer for state inspection & free normal maintenance items. None of my cars have been babied all a drivers.
Most of the ownership time with BMW's is documented on the two main BMW forums & can be looked up. As for Acura look at my posts in the 3G forum staring in 2006 into 2010 & see how many issues I had with the TL. First one was about 2 weeks old when the drivers side taillight assembly failed & was replaced under warranty. Biggest fix was the manual transmission being replaced at 23,000 miles under a TSB. A number of TSB's, recalls & other warranty issues rounded out the TL life. My 1998 Ranger still in use has had less non expected maintenance items in its life then the TL did in its.
The TL was the most unreliable car I have owned in the past 25 years. Just thought of it. My home built COBRA now has over 12,000 miles on it since March 2015, including drag, road course & autocross & had had exactly two fails. Fuel pump died, was replaced as a defective under its warranty & I had a starter bolt comes lose, builders screwup. 100 treadware tires now due for replacing.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-25-2020 at 10:32 PM.
It’s an M340i. I took delivery in May and I had all of the cerium gray trim replaced before I took delivery. It wasn’t easy. Most of the trim had to be ordered from Germany and some had to be painted once they arrived. Today, most of this is available as a port-installed option. These pics were taken the day I took delivery. Since then I have replaced the gloss black grille with vertical slats with the gloss black “mesh” grille.
Okay cool. I guess you didn’t appreciate the gray trim? Lol I think it looks great especially on dark colors. The new M340i is truly remarkable. It’s so hard to not drive it spiritedly.
If Acura could make the type S as compelling as the M340i I’d pick one up ASAP.
Thanks for pointing this out. I would have if you didn't. These are 2019 results likely of a study around 2015 or 2016 (I looked for, but could not find, details surrounding this study). But it shows middle-of-the-pack loyalty at a point in time when:
The TLX was a brand new model (not a particularly good release)
The MDX was a very aesthetically appealing MMR
Acura historically exceled at loyalty
Acura no longer makes beautiful, performance oriented, luxurious, refined vehicles (I mean, they used to, comparing a Legend, 3.5RL or CL to their respective classes in their top forms and glory days) - so they are literally relying on loyalty to overcome market factors, i.e. quality issues and stiff competition. Being in the pack around the likes of Maserati (borderline exotic and unaffordable to most) and Lincoln (are they even alive still? I speak for all millennials when I say none of use are interested in Lincoln) is not where Acura wants to be.
It wasn't subtle. Off the top of my head, you, a35tl, CPR and mapleloaf are satisfied with your TLXs (in some cases, so satisfied that you're on your second or third). I'm sure there are other less active users around here too that I'm forgetting. That's great for all of you. There's no bother counting all the inactive users who left here long ago as a comparison.
Just to be clear, I wanted the same as you. An Accord Touring AWD with a few extras/upgrades. And I may have been okay with my TLX if it weren't for the expressway vibration (which is quite literally intolerable) and my replacement ZF9 (which was wonky but acceptable). What I couldn't handle was the daily or weekly accessories not working, monthly trips to the dealership, recalls, stalls and quality issues I never expected from Acura. I bought my TLX knowing it wouldn't be anything amazing, but it was ultimately an Acura. My realistic expectations were that it would be a decent car for many years. It simply failed to meet by basic transportation needs. Like... working, not vibrating and shifting right, as if I were driving a Jaguar or a Land Rover, not a Honda product. And I wasn't about to settle for inferior reliability and quality on top of already sacrificing for second tier performance and luxury.
Everyone has different needs, wants and expectations - some more exacting than others. Those people who expect the best likely end up with Euros or Lexus. That's their prerogative. Again, it's fine for people to be satisfied with their TLXs. You remind me of the guy who lives around the corner from me. He has three identical Chevy Malibus in his driveway, all grey, all LT, all the same (previous) generation. That car ain't winning any awards, in fact, it lands pretty much at the bottom of any quality and performance list or test out there. But it obviously fits his needs and meets his "managed" expectations so well that he wanted the choice of which of the three to drive any given day.
Indeed, we’re not going to be on same page with this one, which with I think we’re both quite comfortable.
What would you guys think about leasing a 2020 TLX A-Spec Elite SH-AWD right now? For let's say two years? Would it be ideal to do that and give the new TLX 2 years to sort out the issues it may bring? I feel like you would get an amazing deal right now and then eventually I could get a Type S two years down the line.
I love the M240i. I just wish it was a bit bigger. Otherwise it’s a quick sporty car that packs a nice punch.
Yup, watched so many reviews on it. That will be my choice if the Type S is a flop or is super heavy with weight. The price range for both will be the same and the only thing I will miss is the ventilated seats which actually don’t work that well in the Aspec. Type S may have 350 to 380 we are estimating and once reflashed with ktuner or hondata it should be well over 400, but M240 flashed with Dinan will be a beast. I’ve been with Acura for 21 years and After the 9speed I said its finally time for quits on the sedan section. I also have a 2020 RDX since I needed something awd but the wife drives that, the tranny is still slow to me but it moves well but not enough for me : /
What would you guys think about leasing a 2020 TLX A-Spec Elite SH-AWD right now? For let's say two years? Would it be ideal to do that and give the new TLX 2 years to sort out the issues it may bring? I feel like you would get an amazing deal right now and then eventually I could get a Type S two years down the line.
For that price, even heavily discounted, there are any number of cars I would rather drive for 2 years. I'm also not so sure there will be that many lease deals, as dealers will know that the residual value is going to tank once the new generation comes out. Now, if you were buying, I'm sure there's quite a bit of cash on the hood of these cars.
What would you guys think about leasing a 2020 TLX A-Spec Elite SH-AWD right now? For let's say two years? Would it be ideal to do that and give the new TLX 2 years to sort out the issues it may bring? I feel like you would get an amazing deal right now and then eventually I could get a Type S two years down the line.
Good plan. That said I am biased on this right now & have bought year 1 cars before.
Wanted to get a new StingRay mid engine convertible then things piled up. The GM strike pushed back initial production, 6 months to 1 year on the waiting list. Nothing below MSRP & many with ADM's up to $20.000, finally the 6.2 OHV cam in block engine.
My wants were the DOHC/DCT package. Looks like this will be the Z06 or GS version both of which are over a year away.
Intend to lease a BMW Z4 M40i for the interim. Car has a few things going for it. It's in year 2 for the 2021 model year, convertible, 3.8 second 0-60, 12.3 @ 116mph quarter mile, over 1.02G lateral control. Car has enough grunt & poise for some track days & autocross when the COBRA is weather limited. Car has some faults, not a true sportscar more of a GT, but overall will fit my usage till the C8's are were I would buy one.
Will order a car to be built in Austria in late April & it should show up in late May early June. 440 is done in June.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-26-2020 at 11:28 AM.
For that price, even heavily discounted, there are any number of cars I would rather drive for 2 years. I'm also not so sure there will be that many lease deals, as dealers will know that the residual value is going to tank once the new generation comes out. Now, if you were buying, I'm sure there's quite a bit of cash on the hood of these cars.
Can't say anything about the car one way or another but the lease residual may not be an issue with the dealer.
If is anything like a BMW lease that are through BMW financial services the dealer does not eat the poor residual from their point of view, but good for your monthly payment, BMW does. Just something to look into with Acura/Honda.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-26-2020 at 11:25 AM.
What would you guys think about leasing a 2020 TLX A-Spec Elite SH-AWD right now? For let's say two years? Would it be ideal to do that and give the new TLX 2 years to sort out the issues it may bring? I feel like you would get an amazing deal right now and then eventually I could get a Type S two years down the line.
That's not a bad idea, but
Originally Posted by fiatlux
For that price, even heavily discounted, there are any number of cars I would rather drive for 2 years. I'm also not so sure there will be that many lease deals, as dealers will know that the residual value is going to tank once the new generation comes out. Now, if you were buying, I'm sure there's quite a bit of cash on the hood of these cars.
^-- I couldn't have said this better myself. There are better cars for the money if you look around. I know the Aspec is a looker, but performance is average at best (whether you choose the 4cyl or try to tolerate the ZF9) and the reliability is poor. There are people all over this forum not getting home, not getting to work, constantly at the dealer, for all sorts of things. Seems like half of all TLXs are hunks of junk. Suppose you get lucky enough to score a reliable one, the resale is poor because:
a) it's a mediocre performance/reliability car with polarizing style, hence, why no one is looking to buy these.
b) it's the 6th year of a production run and the 3rd since a refresh, almost completely carried over year after year, with no changes - so a dealer or someone selling a 2020 will have a hard time against an identical 2019 or 2020.
c) it's on the heels of a brand new, shiny, hopefully improved (but maybe not) second generation, which will further reduce the potential buyer pool and exacerbate b) above.
I check autotrader periodically (to see if my TLX ever pops up) and prices are not good. In 2018, 2015s were fetching $20-30k. In 2020, 2017s are fetching $14-24k. I notice too that TLXs often sit and sit for weeks and months. That's the range of 4cyl Tech to V6 SH-AWD Tech/Advance. These simply aren't holding their value, which should come as no surprise when carrying over such an average car (to begin with) for three years at a time. So lease maybe to bide time. But a shrewd dealer knows the raw deal they are going to get at the back end, especially in 2-3 years with really stiff competition.
Honestly, you might get a great deal if you simply say "I'm interested in buying/leasing this car despite the coronavirus pandemic."
Most of the ownership time with BMW's is documented on the two main BMW forums & can be looked up. As for Acura look at my posts in the 3G forum staring in 2006 into 2010 & see how many issues I had with the TL. First one was about 2 weeks old when the drivers side taillight assembly failed & was replaced under warranty. Biggest fix was the manual transmission being replaced at 23,000 miles under a TSB. A number of TSB's, recalls & other warranty issues rounded out the TL life. My 1998 Ranger still in use has had less non expected maintenance items in its life then the TL did in its.
The TL was the most unreliable car I have owned in the past 25 years. Just thought of it. My home built COBRA now has over 12,000 miles on it since March 2015, including drag, road course & autocross & had had exactly two fails. Fuel pump died, was replaced as a defective under its warranty & I had a starter bolt comes lose, builders screwup. 100 treadware tires now due for replacing.
Just curious why you stay on the Acura forums when it doesn't appear you own an Acura and as you stated your TL was the most unreliable car you have owned in 25 years? I have had two BMW's and the last one was the most unreliable car I have ever owned and was in the shop constantly. However I traded it in early on the lease, moved on and wouldn't bother to spend time on a BMW forum downgrading the brand to those owners. I moved on from the brand and don't have any plans to go back after my last experience. I also had a 3rd gen TL type S and it was the most reliable car and besides an HFL module was rock solid for 10 years and got great trade in on it at the Acura dealer who sold it within 3 days of me dropping it off there. Had my 3rd gen been like my last BMW I would never have bought another Acura and moved on a long time ago.
Just curious why you stay on the Acura forums when it doesn't appear you own an Acura and as you stated your TL was the most unreliable car you have owned in 25 years? I have had two BMW's and the last one was the most unreliable car I have ever owned and was in the shop constantly. However I traded it in early on the lease, moved on and wouldn't bother to spend time on a BMW forum downgrading the brand to those owners. I moved on from the brand and don't have any plans to go back after my last experience. I also had a 3rd gen TL type S and it was the most reliable car and besides an HFL module was rock solid for 10 years and got great trade in on it at the Acura dealer who sold it within 3 days of me dropping it off there. Had my 3rd gen been like my last BMW I would never have bought another Acura and moved on a long time ago.
If everyone who know longer has an Acura moved on, this place would be a ghost town. A lot of old timers with good amounts of knowledge to share have moved on to other cars. Just take a look at what the moderators are driving and you'd think this place is the other AZ (audizine.com). Like it or not, the perception (and reality) is that Acura is a stepping-stone. Nobody aspires to own an Acura; it's not really a terminal brand.
I should add my additional data point. I owned a Z4M for about 6 years. During that time, I had to have the seals on the VANOS system rebuilt (under warranty), the retractable cup holders replaced on an annual basis, and a wonky navigation system replaced. That said, it never left me stranded, and I never had to fight with the dealership to get anything done. While mechanically my TLX has been sound, it did leave me stranded due to a dead battery, and I did have to fight with the dealership over said battery, a failing key remote, and a poorly aligned fuel door, none of which they owned up to. And so while overall I'm satisfied with the car given how little money I paid for it new, it's just OK, and I probably won't be buying another. If I didn't like cars and only saw it as an appliance, then yeah maybe I'd buy another one if I could get it for 20% off sticker again in just the 2nd year of the generation. But for me, life's too short to just drive something that's OK.
Just curious why you stay on the Acura forums when it doesn't appear you own an Acura and as you stated your TL was the most unreliable car you have owned in 25 years? I have had two BMW's and the last one was the most unreliable car I have ever owned and was in the shop constantly. However I traded it in early on the lease, moved on and wouldn't bother to spend time on a BMW forum downgrading the brand to those owners. I moved on from the brand and don't have any plans to go back after my last experience. I also had a 3rd gen TL type S and it was the most reliable car and besides an HFL module was rock solid for 10 years and got great trade in on it at the Acura dealer who sold it within 3 days of me dropping it off there. Had my 3rd gen been like my last BMW I would never have bought another Acura and moved on a long time ago.
Simple I enjoy it here. Did pretty well running a global marketing operation. Took it from number 4 in its sector to number 1 before I retired at 55. Formed my own company making financial instrument trading decision systems in the UK & 8 years later sold it to a major player in the software business. Been retired since then so I have time to enjoy things that interest me on the net & in real life.
The way the Acura line is marketed just absolutely fascinates me. The very major disconnect between what the Acura marketing is trying to sell & what their customer base now looks like is mind boggling. Adds look like there are trying to appeal to the type of people that used to buy MT TL's & MT TL-S while their current audience (customer base) has turned into a "peppy" grocery getter family car audience. Post here & the various consumer surveys strongly suggest that the reliability of the car is a myth & no longer what it was 8 or so years ago.
Lots of things have caught up with the brand that used to dominate the segment in sales, had very highly rated reliability, repeat customer & exciting cars. Someone just said being number 8 on repeat buyers is not so bad, are you kidding me, its a slow death.
An extremely interested in seeing how (if) the current team can turn it around. Don't mean to offend anyone, never said the car sucked until someone challenged by personal experience with the TL. The TLX is a reasonable competent car thats looking for an audience but looking with the current product line in all the wrong places. 1,800 cars a month for what should be a high volume car is not a very good place to be.
If everyone who know longer has an Acura moved on, this place would be a ghost town. A lot of old timers with good amounts of knowledge to share have moved on to other cars. Just take a look at what the moderators are driving and you'd think this place is the other AZ (audizine.com). Like it or not, the perception (and reality) is that Acura is a stepping-stone. Nobody aspires to own an Acura; it's not really a terminal brand.
I should add my additional data point. I owned a Z4M for about 6 years. During that time, I had to have the seals on the VANOS system rebuilt (under warranty), the retractable cup holders replaced on an annual basis, and a wonky navigation system replaced. That said, it never left me stranded, and I never had to fight with the dealership to get anything done. While mechanically my TLX has been sound, it did leave me stranded due to a dead battery, and I did have to fight with the dealership over said battery, a failing key remote, and a poorly aligned fuel door, none of which they owned up to. And so while overall I'm satisfied with the car given how little money I paid for it new, it's just OK, and I probably won't be buying another. If I didn't like cars and only saw it as an appliance, then yeah maybe I'd buy another one if I could get it for 20% off sticker again in just the 2nd year of the generation. But for me, life's too short to just drive something that's OK.
LOL @ audizine. I love it! FYI - I hang around here for the general car talk and to knock the TLX when given the opportunity. I don't feel the need to gtfo despite no longer owning my TLX.
I was going to add this to my post (that was already too long). I haven't owned Euro in 15 years, so my info is dated and Euros made strides in that period for reliability (that's truth, not my perception). My recollection and perception is that the problem with Euros isn't the frequency of issues - it's the cost to fix when they do break. You might be fine all year, but you will inevitably encounter a rattle rattle thunder clatter boom boom boom at some point and it's going to cost a grand minimum, maybe worse. Whatever it is. A minor switch, sensor or doohickey, all the way up to a gasket or seal that could end up being a bloodbath for your wallet. But look around the expressways. Euros don't often leave people stranded. That's not their failure mode.
I know two guys who drive VW and old high mileage BMWs. Both do their own wrenching and say they otherwise couldn't afford to drive their cars. I guess if you're willing and able, that's the best case with Euros. If you don't, the next best case is to "know a guy" like a foreign or import specialist you trust. The worst case is to use dealers. And I'm talking price exclusively, not treatment, service or quality of repairs. Dealers (any brand for that matter) will rake you over the coals. My TLX was the first car I've ever owned that I legitimately feared I wouldn't make it to my destination every week, day or push of the start button. I wasn't about to see how it fared or what it cost after the warranty expired. For the money, I would have been more satisfied with a Euro and setting aside a hundred bucks every month in a repair kitty.
BMW has killed the maintenance issues over 10 years ago. Spend under $1500 on a 125,000 mile 330. Nothing but BMW covered oil/filiters/brakes/fluids on the 2011 335is /2014 340 /2018 440. Every major cunsumer reporting agency will support this. CR currently has 4 2020 models on its recommended list Acura has 1 …
For across the board BMW maintenance / repair over the last 10 years our experience was different. From 2010 – 2020 we purchased 3 new BMWs. I had a 2013 3 series and replaced that with a 2017 3 series. Both of these vehicles were / are fun to drive and reliable, but were under factory warranty / maintenance for most of the time.
The 3rd vehicle was a 2011 X3 purchased new. Again, it was a great drive and reliable while under factory coverage. But after that coverage expired it became increasingly more expensive to maintain until it reached a point where it was too much of a financial liability.
Our X3 was 6 ½ years old with only about 55,00 miles on it. Some examples of what we encountered, all costs were from a reputable independent BMW repair garage-
There were four taillight assemblies with LED arrays that went out periodically. The cost to replace each of them was $400+.
The labor to replace the thermostat was about $500. The shop strongly recommended we replace the electric water pump at the same time so we would not have to pay the same labor charge again if the pump failed in the future. Both BMW forums said the water pump was a real issue and prone to early failure so we had that replaced at the same time.
We were driving home from a trip and we got a TPM error message. When we took it in to the shop they said 1 or more of the TPM sensors were bad and we should replace all 4, plus there were other issues: the battery needed to be replaced (no issue with having to do that except for the cost- $400); the car had an oil leak that needed to be fixed; that leak had dripped oil onto the engine belt, weakening it, so the belt needed to be replaced; and one or both of the tail light assemblies that we had not previously replaced needed to be fixed.
Bottom line is it would have cost $4,000 to make the car drive-able. On top of that the turbo was going bad, it would need to be replaced in the not too distant future, and I shuddered to think what that would cost.
Rather than invest that kind of money in a car that old, we traded the X3 in on a 2018 RDX. Footnote, we just traded in the 2018 RDX for a 2020 RDX.
Owning a BMW can be a great experience, but I think you need to decide on an ownership strategy before acquiring one; e.g., leasing and getting a new vehicle every 3 – 4 years, buying an extended warranty, etc.
Sorry, but I'm not spending $55,000+ for a 350 Hp Type S that'll get blown away by a Kia turbo.
Maybe the Kia Turbo is what you should be buying. Doubt you will see much more than 350+ from the type S. Why not go ahead and get the Kia?
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
The way the Acura line is marketed just absolutely fascinates me. The very major disconnect between what the Acura marketing is trying to sell & what their customer base now looks like is mind boggling. Adds look like there are trying to appeal to the type of people that used to buy MT TL's & MT TL-S while their current audience (customer base) has turned into a "peppy" grocery getter family car audience. Post here & the various consumer surveys strongly suggest that the reliability of the car is a myth & no longer what it was 8 or so years ago.
Lots of things have caught up with the brand that used to dominate the segment in sales, had very highly rated reliability, repeat customer & exciting cars. Someone just said being number 8 on repeat buyers is not so bad, are you kidding me, its a slow death.
An extremely interested in seeing how (if) the current team can turn it around. Don't mean to offend anyone, never said the car sucked until someone challenged by personal experience with the TL. The TLX is a reasonable competent car thats looking for an audience but looking with the current product line in all the wrong places. 1,800 cars a month for what should be a high volume car is not a very good place to be.
It is at the run of it's cycle. If the pro-type on the type S is close to what ends up in production and the drivetrain is solid along with some interior upgrades the sales will be what they are. They will not get back to 3rd gen numbers with the rush to suv's the past 5 or so years.
Originally Posted by someguy11
LOL @ audizine. I love it! FYI - I hang around here for the general car talk and to knock the TLX when given the opportunity. I don't feel the need to gtfo despite no longer owning my TLX.
I know you had a lot of issues. Eventually maybe you vent all your frustrations out. Knock away.
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I was initially quite disappointed in the TLX myself coming from the type S but after installing the vcm muzzler it really improved the trans behavior to the point where it very rarely bothers me and I wish I had installed it sooner. I don't like it better than the type S even to this day, not even close. I have had no issues with reliability. Would I buy another TLX without real changes? No. Is there something else out there now that I am in a rush to get into? No. The next gen will be out in fall with the type S soon after and if that is not a real upgrade over the TLX then I will look elsewhere but not in a rush. I avoid the german cars due to the high servicing costs. I don't mind paying up front to get the car but ideally I want to get something I want to keep for 8 or more years that is low cost to service over the long haul.
So I was at the Kia dealership today looking at the Telluride for the gf and decided to check out the Stinger while I was there. Well its out as an option for my next car, I dont fit in it. I cant believe how narrow the car is, im not even able to sit straight up in it. I do have very broad shoulders but its not usually an issue. Love the look of the Stinger though. Hopefully I like the new type s otherwise I will probably be driving my tl type s for years to come.
^new engine, new generation, I'd definitely won't buy the 2nd gen right away. I'll probably wait for the MMC to be honest.
It's definitely best to avoid the first model year, but a 2.0T/10AT model will have an engine and transmission that have been on the road for awhile in other models, including the 2.0T in a higher state of tune in the Civic Type R. As a result, I might be comfortable with a first year 2.0T TLX. The bigger concern might be the infotainment if it's a new system. No way I'd consider the first year of an all-new engine.
I'm not a fan of BMWs either ... I think their touted engineering is spectacularly overrated and their reliability isn't anything to write home about either. I really want an F82 M3, but the fact that the crank hub can potentially walk and take out a $20k motor is absolutely abhorrent for any manufacturer to have as a defect. But these are fairly common place with BMWs as of late ... small problems that wind up causing catastrophic failures in their engines. But, I digress. As bad as I perceive BMW as being, most auto review outlets have BMW faring far better than Acura in reliability ratings, so this place is the last place to chide in about BMW's poor reliability standing. Only other automaker that has less of a leg to stand on is Cadillac. I'm still shocked they're still in business. Sad, since I really do like GM vehicles, but their corporate overlords are complete shit and they've completely let the American people down with their piss-poor product quality.
02-24-2020, 03:12 PM
