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I know that people want to rag on Acura "marketing" and greedy dealers for ADM on the TLX Type S, but at this point, the overall car market might be dictating some, not all but some of that ADM instead of just purely hype.
Did I hear correctly that even something like the CR-V has some sort of ADM now, due to the chip shortages?
I suspect much of it is based upon your area and their inventory as to what they can get away with.
We bought a 2021 Honda Pilot a month ago - the first thing out of the sales guys mouth is that everyone is at MSRP and some dealers are even charging more than MSRP etc etc. They were trying to add $999 to the MSRP for some internal scratch protection plan, said they add it to every vehicle. We ended up getting that taken off along with an extra $900 and we got what we wanted on our trade so we were happy. That said - they had 10 new Pilots on the lot so I imagine that helped us. Maybe it was just a slow day and they wanted to sell a car!
I am not being biased (I don't like lever-less, has one and few in the family), but I think the Genesis would look nicer if it has the gear lever like some of the Audi.
Yes, nice having a "real gear shift" in my Audi ... over just buttons. That actually made my Pros-Cons "short list" over 2021-TLX.
It's upgraded to semi-electronic, with low-travel (so best of both worlds). It has a Park electronic button. When on an incline, pressing Park also applies the Emergency Brake.
I know that people want to rag on Acura "marketing" and greedy dealers for ADM on the TLX Type S, but at this point, the overall car market might be dictating some, not all but some of that ADM instead of just purely hype.
Did I hear correctly that even something like the CR-V has some sort of ADM now, due to the chip shortages?
Yes, nice having a "real gear shift" in my Audi ... over just buttons. That actually made my Pros-Cons "short list" over 2021-TLX.
It's upgraded to semi-electronic, with low-travel (so best of both worlds). It has a Park electronic button. When on an incline, pressing Park also applies the Emergency Brake.
I have mine auto engage E-Brake when I shut off the engine.
I'm glad we are taken-care-of "vehicle-wise" for a while.
It's all such a nightmare right now, myself and a family member are in the market and it's been such a pain. And the auto industry is to blame for this as well for using old chip technology...and add that in with how inventory has been managed prior to this and we are seeing a perfect storm.
Yes, nice having a "real gear shift" in my Audi ... over just buttons.
LOL, for those of us with three pedals under the dash, we'd argue all you have is a bunch of buttons actuated by a faux shift leaver; ain't nuthin' "real" about it.
LOL, for those of us with three pedals under the dash, we'd argue all you have is a bunch of buttons actuated by a faux shift leaver; ain't nuthin' "real" about it.
.......................
Once approved it will take longer than a vanilla M550ix for the actual production, I don't expect to see it this year.
Hear you did something similar to your individual M build. Took a shot & ordered Dravit Gray Metallic which is an individual M paint color for my series. Has an ?* warning saying it could add up to 10 weeks to production time as they batched these cars till the get enough of the same color for a paint run. Looks like I made the current paint batch. Am keeping an eye on the build status to see what happens at the paint shop which is the one after the next one along the process. Dravit Grey Metallic
LOL, for those of us with three pedals under the dash, we'd argue all you have is a bunch of buttons actuated by a faux shift leaver; ain't nuthin' "real" about it.
That shift lever is a hell of a lot better than having the button layout. Have had both and the Acura button implementation leaves a boatload to be desired over the Audi shift lever. The button shift in the TLX was one of the things I hated most of all. Three pedals is a rarity. The button tech is not an advancement over any lever. Other than a clean look it is less functional in every way.
Yeah, the old Celica was long ago. I know this dual-clutch auto can shift the gears much better than me (plus, I don't have to ... always hated stop-n-go traffic). The Audi shifts even better/faster in S. I thought I would use the paddles more than I actually do (hardly ever). It's easier to just punch-it (it down-shifts, stays in gears properly, all that)..
Finally, I don't think you can have Adaptive Cruise Control or basic Self-Driving with an old-school mechanical manual-transmission ... can you?
Last edited by Tesla1856; 09-29-2021 at 11:43 PM.
Reason: typo
Yeah, the old Celica was long ago. I know this dual-clutch auto can shift the gears much better than me (plus, I don't have to ... always hated stop-n-go traffic). The Audi shifts even better/faster in S. I thought I would use the paddles more than I actually do (hardly ever). It's easier to just punch-it (it down-shifts, stays in gears properly, all that)..
Finally, I don't think you can have Adaptive Cruise Control or basic Self-Driving with an old-school mechanical manual-transmission ... can you?
Yeah, the old Celica was long ago. I know this dual-clutch auto can shift the gears much better than me (plus, I don't have to ... always hated stop-n-go traffic). The Audi shifts even better/faster in S. I thought I would use the paddles more than I actually do (hardly ever). It's easier to just punch-it (it down-shifts, stays in gears properly, all that)..
Finally, I don't think you can have Adaptive Cruise Control or basic Self-Driving with an old-school mechanical manual-transmission ... can you?
I had the same thinking, but then I rarely do. Just a quick shift to SPORT and let the car does the rest. I am still jealous of my brother-in-law Macan S though, that damn thing shifts butter smooth and quick.
Slick new painting technology called no overspray. Sample of how its done. Trade name is BMW individual. Pilot operation is being run on the M4 production line in the M series Dingolfing plant. What you get from the process is unlimited design capability with no masking.
Mick Jagger said you can't always get what you want, but when looking at sport sedans, there's pretty much one for every buyer preference. Looking for a European? You have five options. All-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive? Plenty to choose from. Electric? You betcha.
The BMW 3 Series first defined this segment over three decades ago, and today the competition has grown in size and ferocity. As the sport sedan segment grew, so did these cars' power and variants; some fresher-to-the-scene automakers have even tried offering their fast four-doors for less than BMW to coax buyers into their folds. That's how we got here—Acura and Cadillac have established mid-performance sub-brands to distinguish their sport sedans from the base models (Type S and V, respectively), and although Genesis hasn't gone down that path yet, it has an adequate model to compete in the segment at a hot price. Although Cadillac and other Europeans have sedans with even more power, this midgrade trio focuses on delivering a sporty and engaging driving experience while offering the luxury and versatility sedans are known for.
This comparison would be even more interesting if the Audi S4 and BMW M340i were present, but issues with production and limited press fleets kept us from getting the two Germans. The Mercedes-AMG C43's replacement will make its debut soon, and the Alfa Romeo Giulia doesn't offer a six-cylinder mid-performance trim to compete against these players. Turns out Jagger was right—at least some of the time.
After years of waiting, the 2021 acura tlx Type S marks the return of the Type S performance treatment to Honda's luxury brand. A twin-turbo 3.0-liter V-6 sends 355 hp and 354 lb-ft of torque through a 10-speed automatic transmission to all four wheels thanks to the standard Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system. (That's Acura's signature AWD setup, which includes torque vectoring on the rear axle.) Besides being one of the best-looking sedans out there, the TLX Type S is also longer and wider than its competition. Its wheelbase may be 3.0 inches shorter than the Cadillac CT5-V's, but the Acura's proportions are closer to a Porsche Panamera. At $54,645, the Type S takes value to the next level, too.
The 2021 Cadillac CT5-V effectively replaces the old CTS V-Sport, while the V-8-powered CT5-V Blackwing stands in for the CTS-V of yore. Once you get your head around that naming shuffle, look at the numbers: 360 hp and an eye-popping 405 lb-ft for the V, not bad for a midgrade performance trim. That's all thanks to its twin-turbo 3.0-liter V-6 engine, which comes mated to a 10-speed automatic. Unlike the Acura, the Cadillac sends all its power to the rear wheels, though all-wheel drive is available as an option. The CT5-V can be considered a tweener for the segment. The CT5 is larger than the German competition, but its smaller sibling—the CT4-V—is smaller than the Europeans. Our test car came with a $64,640 price tag—the most expensive vehicle in this group thanks to nearly $15,000 worth of options.
When it launched, the Genesis G70 surprised everyone in the industry with its performance, handling, looks, and value—part of the reason we crowned it our 2019 Car of the Year. Three years after its reveal, the G70 is getting a deep midcycle refresh that could easily be confused for a new generation. Behind its elegant fresh face, the 2022 Genesis G70 Sport Prestige hides this roundup's highest horsepower rating: 368. Its twin-turbo 3.3-liter V-6 engine sends those ponies (and up to 376 lb-ft of torque) to the rear wheels via an eight-speed automatic. If that's not impressive enough, look at its price—$51,945 as tested, the cheapest in this test.
When it comes to sport sedans, the driving experience is the entire point. The car must have a sparkling powertrain, deliver sharp responses, and offer a settled ride to justify its station.
On Angeles Crest Highway, one of the best mountain roads in Southern California, the Type S shows decent handling around its tight turns. Its well-tuned chassis feels settled and flat, though its torque-vectoring all-wheel-drive system sometimes intervenes too much. "Rear torque vectoring surely helps a ton, though I wish it were more predictable," associate road test editor Erick Ayapana said. Its steering also seems too digital compared to the Genesis and Cadillac. "It doesn't feel like Acura changed a thing in that department over the standard TLX," online editor Conner Golden said.
Although the G70 feels a bit too wobbly on the corners with Sport mode on, it is more settled in its driver-directed Custom mode. Like its name suggests, the driver can customize the driving experience, adjusting the powertrain, steering and suspension. Body roll is more noticeable than in the Caddy or Acura, but the Genesis is excited to rip through the corners. Its steering is better weighted than the tiller in the TLX Type S, but the transmission is slow to respond. The brakes represent a real weak point, with inconsistent pedal feel and less bite than you get in the CT5-V or TLX Type S.
On the Crest's undulating pavement, the Cadillac CT5-V feels as though it's taking a walk in the park. Based on the Alpha II chassis, the evolution of the already athletic Alpha architecture, the CT5 is very at home through the corners. With its magical adaptive dampers (GM's excellent MagneRide tech) and Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, the Caddy fairly attacks twisty hill climbs and descents. Its steering and damping notably change from drive mode to drive mode; all of us used the V mode and edited it to our liking. "It approaches Porsche levels of intuitiveness," Golden said.
We like how much car the TLX offers for your money, but all that "more" hurts the Type S' performance. At 4,179 pounds, it's the heaviest of the three, with 59 percent of its mass sitting on the front tires. This slows down the TLX Type S' straight-line acceleration: It takes 5.1 seconds to reach 60 mph and 13.7 seconds at 101.8 mph to complete the quarter mile—the slowest of the three. Those aren't awful numbers, but the Type S also doesn't feel quick in the real world, especially on Angeles Crest. There's plenty to like here, but as a sport sedan, the Acura simply feels tamer than the Cadillac and Genesis.
Weighing in lightest—more than 300 pounds lighter than the Acura—the Genesis G70 is unsurprisingly the quickest sedan here. The Cadillac feels more powerful on Angeles Crest because of its 405 lb-ft of torque and its settled chassis, but the Genesis isn't too far behind. "This great chassis is begging for more power," Ayapana said of the G70. The twin-turbo 3.3-liter V-6 delivers plenty of power for a car the size of the G70, though we hope to see even more muscle in the future, as the brand continues to grow.
Ignore the CT5-V's second-place showing in our acceleration tests—it feels sharp overall. The gearbox likes to hold on to gears as long as possible, and the chassis is always ready to take on the next canyon road. Just be careful with the brakes; at one point, Golden managed to leave the front brake pads smoking after an aggressive run up the mountain.
Sure performance, handling, and ride are vital in sport sedans, but customers pay luxury money for these rides, so they expect a luxury experience, as well.
Acura effectively distinguishes the Type S from the regular TLX in terms of performance, so it's a shame it doesn't pull off the same feat with the former's cabin. No matter which type of TLX you sit in, it'll feel the same. Our test car's wild Tiger Eye Pearl exterior paint matched well with the elegant beige and black interior, but we're not huge fans of the center stack design. Unlike Cadillac and Genesis, Acura designers opted for a push-button gear selector, making the center stack a cascade of buttons. Complicating things a bit more is the touchpad that controls the infotainment system, which works by mirroring the display (i.e., the lower left corner of the pad correlates with the lower-left section of the screen) unless you have Apple CarPlay connected. Sit in the rear seat, and legroom and headroom are tight, mostly because of the stadium-style rear seating that is elevated slightly relative to the front row.
The Cadillac and Genesis both offer more foot- and headroom in the rear seats and have cleaner surfaces compared to the Acura. Between the American and Korean, it's the Genesis that stands out for its premium design. With diamond-quilted seats, red contrast stitching, and red seat belts, the G70 Sport Prestige feels like a sporty first-class airplane cabin. Just as surprising? That this interior is much the same as before; unlike the updated G70's exterior, the cabin wasn't altered as much.
The Cadillac's cabin isn't a bad place to spend your time in, but there's nothing about it that screams luxury. The CT5-V's infotainment system is easy to use and is compatible with wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. But the rest of the interior design doesn't feel as superior as the Acura's or Genesis' cabins. Even though our CT5-V had the red carbon-fiber trim, its layout is somewhat bleak.
Between the Genesis and Acura, it's the Korean that brings more value to the table. Not only is the G70 a bit cheaper, it's also better equipped. Our former Car of the Year winner arrived with heated and ventilated front seats plus a heated steering wheel, head-up display, 15-speaker premium audio system, and side cameras that feed live blind-spot action to the digital instrument cluster when the driver activates either turn signal.
The Acura brings midpack pricing but is well equipped from the start, with a 17-speaker ELS premium audio system, wireless phone charger, front and rear parking sensors, and a sport steering wheel. The wheel and tire package is the sole option available in the Type S and adds Pirelli P Zero tires for only $800. Provided you go easy on the available dealer-installed accessories, the Acura maintains excellent value for the segment.
The Caddy looms because of its high price compared to the Asians, but our test car came with a few options you could easily bypass without sacrificing performance. The $5,290 Premium package adds power driver and front passenger seats with lumbar adjustment and massage function; illuminated door sills and door handles; navigation; and a Bose premium audio system. The $2,015 Parking package adds rear camera mirror and automatic parking assist, among other features. Axe those two packages and the security package, and the CT5-V price drops to $56,660—a very competitive value proposition.
The CT5-V easily takes home the gold. Although its interior could be better appointed, its performance, handling, and ride make a huge difference against its competition. "This is very much one of the finest mid-level sport sedans I've ever driven," Golden said. Cadillac took things seriously with the V, making it a true sport sedan that's not only fun to drive, but also inspiring, putting up a good fight against the best from Germany.
Choosing between second and third place isn't as clear cut. While the Acura and Genesis are very different, they both deliver in terms of performance, luxury, and quality. But the Genesis' performance, handling, and value stand out over the TLX Type S. The G70 is faster, more powerful, and has a nicer cabin, and while the Type S brings back Acura's performance roots, it doesn't feel as strong as the Genesis or Cadillac.
All these sport sedans capture the essence of the segment, but the Cadillac goes above and beyond to deliver more than the basics in a thrilling package.
3rd Place: Acura Tlx Type S
Pros
Dynamic styling
Standard all-wheel drive
Well equipped
Cons
Nose heavy
Cramped interior
Needs more oomph
2nd Place: Genesis G70 3.3T Sport Prestige
Pros
Excellent value
Interior and exterior styling
Dynamic chassis
Cons
Inconsistent brakes
Noticeable body roll
Slow gearbox
That's probably true for brands like Acura, but for Nissan and FCA Stellantis it's getting more and more common. 96 is the new 84
The irony is that the dealers who offer loans that long are hurting themselves in the long run. It’s almost impossible to trade out of a vehicle with a loan that long for quite a few years.
"After years of waiting, the 2021 acura tlx Type S marks the return of the Type S performance treatment to Honda's luxury brand. A twin-turbo 3.0-liter V-6 sends 355 hp and 354 lb-ft of torque through a 10-speed automatic transmission to all four wheels thanks to the standard Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system."
I've been on MT's case recently for inaccuracies and it's not ending any time soon. We all know the Type S is a twin-scroll engine right?
"After years of waiting, the 2021 acura tlx Type S marks the return of the Type S performance treatment to Honda's luxury brand. A twin-turbo 3.0-liter V-6 sends 355 hp and 354 lb-ft of torque through a 10-speed automatic transmission to all four wheels thanks to the standard Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system."
I've been on MT's case recently for inaccuracies and it's not ending any time soon. We all know the Type S is a twin-scroll engine right?
Right. Most turbos for general use are twin scroll. Lots of advantages for DD street oriented cars. The Twin Turbo cars today are generally V8's & V/I6's in the upper performance range, seldom under 450BHP. The twins were pretty common till around 2010 or so when the twin scroll stated to take over the DD street market.
Right. Most turbos for general use are twin scroll. Lots of advantages for DD street oriented cars. The Twin Turbo cars today are generally V8's & V/I6's in the upper performance range, seldom under 450BHP. The twins were pretty common till around 2010 or so when the twin scroll stated to take over the DD street market.
I just looked up both the G70 and TLX-S. Acura does refer to the S as a single, twin scroll turbo. Genesis refers to theirs as a “twin turbo”, with no reference to twin scroll. Even though I have one, I must confess that I have only assumed it has two turbos, but have never verified it. It’s too hot and humid out right now for me to want to go out and crawl around and under the car to find out for sure.
EDIT, I just looked at pics of the G70 engine and it does appear to have turbos on each side of the engine. One side is hard to see, but I think it’s what I’m seeing.
Slick new painting technology called no overspray. Sample of how its done. Trade name is BMW individual. Pilot operation is being run on the M4 production line in the M series Dingolfing plant. What you get from the process is unlimited design capability with no masking.
As I'm sure you know, BMW Individual Manufaktur is part of the M operation and offers a wide variety of semi-custom choices (over 100 paints, dozens of interior colors in various materials) as well as a willingness to create any cosmetic customizations your checkbook can pay for.
When I decided to pass on the Type-S I drove an M540ix and really liked it. But I simply couldn't resist the temptation of the big dog - the M550ix. Not loving the standard colors/interiors choices I opted to order it with Individual paint and merino leather.
I just looked up both the G70 and TLX-S. Acura does refer to the S as a single, twin scroll turbo. Genesis refers to theirs as a “twin turbo”, with no reference to twin scroll. Even though I have one, I must confess that I have only assumed it has two turbos, but have never verified it. It’s too hot and humid out right now for me to want to go out and crawl around and under the car to find out for sure.
EDIT, I just looked at pics of the G70 engine and it does appear to have turbos on each side of the engine. One side is hard to see, but I think it’s what I’m seeing.
The two lines I drew point to the Turbo high pressure output piping.
They "T" into the to intercooler input tube. Arrow.
Its a true Twin Turbo.
As I'm sure you know, BMW Individual Manufaktur is part of the M operation and offers a wide variety of semi-custom choices (over 100 paints, dozens of interior colors in various materials) as well as a willingness to create any cosmetic customizations your checkbook can pay for.
When I decided to pass on the Type-S I drove an M540ix and really liked it. But I simply couldn't resist the temptation of the big dog - the M550ix. Not loving the standard colors/interiors choices I opted to order it with Individual paint and merino leather.
There are always some more ways to spend money, they dinged us for the Individual Dravite Gray paint. Have the standard Merino Leather.
I was surprised to read the MT comparison where is said the TLX has less rear seat room than the G70. As a G70 owner I find that hard to believe. Anyone sat in the back of both that can comment? The TLX is a much bigger car overall.
I was surprised to read the MT comparison where is said the TLX has less rear seat room than the G70. As a G70 owner I find that hard to believe. Anyone sat in the back of both that can comment? The TLX is a much bigger car overall.
On paper, the TLX has only 0.1" more rear legroom than the G70. However, due to the noticeably raised center seat in the back, it can make the rear of the TXL less practical than the G70.
Don't be fooled by the TLX exterior dimensions as you get none of that extra room in the interior.
I was surprised to read the MT comparison where is said the TLX has less rear seat room than the G70. As a G70 owner I find that hard to believe. Anyone sat in the back of both that can comment? The TLX is a much bigger car overall.
I’ve sat in the back of both. The G70 had a little more knee room because the front seat backs are thinner; however if you have large feet you’re in trouble because there’s not a lot of under the seat clearance. The center area of the back seat appeared to be more usable in the TLX. To me the G70 was a four seater because there just didn’t seem to be enough room for a center rear passenger. The TLX has way more room for the front passengers. The G70 front seat wells were cramped to the point that I’m doubtful anyone over 200 lbs would be comfortable.
I’ve sat in the back of both. The G70 had a little more knee room because the front seat backs are thinner; however if you have large feet you’re in trouble because there’s not a lot of under the seat clearance. The center area of the back seat appeared to be more usable in the TLX. To me the G70 was a four seater because there just didn’t seem to be enough room for a center rear passenger. The TLX has way more room for the front passengers. The G70 front seat wells were cramped to the point that I’m doubtful anyone over 200 lbs would be comfortable.
The TLX has more hip room for the center passenger on account of being wider, but the seat is unusable for anyone over 5’5” on account of the raised seat bottom and low ceiling.
The TLX has more hip room for the center passenger on account of being wider, but the seat is unusable for anyone over 5’5” on account of the raised seat bottom and low ceiling.
Got you. The funny thing is that outside of the two years with my RDX I've driven sedans for the last 45 years and the only people that I've ever placed in the back middle seat were under 5'5". I know we've beat this one to death, but anyone who needs to place an adult in the middle rear shouldn't be buying nearly all the cars in this segment. By the way, I'm doubtful that even that hypothetical 5'5" person could sit in the middle rear of the G70.
Kinda how I feel because having had sedans and having my TLX in general, I rarely needed to utilize my backseats. So with the 2021 TLX, I don't care about backseat space at all and my only nitpicks with the TLX is more specific to the trim level I am going for.
I’m 5’8” and i’ve sat in the middle backseat of my TLX a handful of times in between two car seats. Was it a tight fit? Yes. Would I do it if needed? Yes. Would I recommend it for a long trip? No.
I’m 5’8” and i’ve sat in the middle backseat of my TLX a handful of times in between two car seats. Was it a tight fit? Yes. Would I do it if needed? Yes. Would I recommend it for a long trip? No.
I just test sat all three of the rear seat positions. I’m 5’11”. The outward seats are more than serviceable for a long ride. That middle space would be rough for anymore than a short trip because of the raised nature of that space though at my height I still had an inch or more of head room. The reality is that the seat is contoured for two passengers only.
though at my height I still had an inch or more of head room
I have to ask…do you have a 40” inseam or something? I’m 5’8” with a 31” inseam and I have to hunch over to avoid having my head hit the ceiling. My wife is 5’5” with a 28” inseam and you can barely fit a piece of paper between her head and the ceiling in that middle seat.
I have to ask…do you have a 40” inseam or something? I’m 5’8” with a 31” inseam and I have to hunch over to avoid having my head hit the ceiling. My wife is 5’5” with a 28” inseam and you can barely fit a piece of paper between her head and the ceiling in that middle seat.
Thats not what I attempted to demonstrate. My question simply was is .3 or even .5 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile a valid reason to recommend one car over another. Oh don’t mind the cheap switch gear in the Stinger, the plastic fake air vents or the service experience or forget about how small the G70 interior is because you can run a .5 second faster 1/4 mile than the Type S. Yes, makes a lot of sense.
only cheap plastic is the whole center stack of giant piano black plastic found in the type s sooooooooo lol
only cheap plastic is the whole center stack of giant piano black plastic found in the type s sooooooooo lol
I'm in the car daily. I'm quite satisfied with the interior. Intially I had my doubts, but the more time I spend in there the more I appreciate how clean and appealing the astestic is. I understand completely if it's not to your taste.
09-29-2021, 01:39 PM
