leomio2.0

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

IS500 pricing is out. It starts at $57.5k. Wow, very surprised at that pricing (in a good way).

F23A4

Well, this shouldn't come as any surprise:



....but notable is how much lighter it is compared to the TLX-S.

And that price range pretty much shuts down the ADM pitched by some Acura dealers.

F23A4

Just a quick side by side posting versus the TLX Type S

fiatlux

I was expecting a starting price of 59,995 so this is a nice surprise. Already have deposits down with a few local dealerships, but no word yet on ADM from them.

SebringSilver

What colour are you getting?

fiatlux

Ultrasonic Blue Mica of course. Although I’m also a big fan of Atomic Silver if I wanted something more subdued.

leomio2.0

Goddamn, my man works quick! If the Type-S and CA were indicators of anything, it seems like ADMs run rampant there. I'm sure the same will be true for the NY metro area.

fiatlux

Yeah…I’m not expecting sticker, but I can wait it out. I don’t absolutely need a new car right away, and my company is still remote until the end of next year at the earliest. The only thing that would change the calculus would be if this was a limited run for just 1-2 model years and supply really is low.

leomio2.0

Pretty brutal on the 'Final Thoughts', but everything he says is why I would buy the car. It's literally what I want in a car ... more about driving experience, which I was so grateful when they harped on the fact at how compliant the ride. Transmission woes really only seem to be if you use them in manual mode, so for me that would be moot.

And despite what he says, if I could get them without ADM, I'd be the first in line to get one of the 'Base' models. Literally nothing in the 'Premium' package is even remotely appealing to me. The only thing I would have to come to grips with is RWD only being in the Northeast. Then again, you have plenty of idiots who think AWD is going to be sufficient to overcome the fact that they're running Max Performance Summer tires. I can't wait to see a Type-S stuck on a slight, snowy incline with all 4 of its Y-Spokes spinning this winter.

leomio2.0

SG has said it's going to be limited production in the past, but I never saw anyone else claiming that it would be. Yes, there's the limited Launch Edition of only 500, but other than that, I haven't heard anything from Lexus or anyone else saying it's going to be limited production. Another thing that gives me hope that it isn't going to be limited is the pricing. For them to price it competitively against the Germans as well as the Type-S makes me believe that they're looking to sell as many of these as possible.

fiatlux

The way I see it: it's the Charger Scatpack for people who have decent credit, and want a non-shitty dealership experience, reliability, and resale value.

leomio2.0

I find it hilarious that this is what the ScatPack has become synonymous with in the car community.

fiatlux

It's what Dodge has become synonymous with. Doesn't help that these cars seem to be the ride of choice in the, how to say...less affluent urban neighborhoods.

F23A4

...tons of YT channels seem to support that observation; especially in areas like Atlanta and Houston.

vhtran

Yeah, I saw the SavageGeese video this morning. So if you are single or no kids and want a super reliable sport sedan with a V8, that's the car for you. They both had that ear to ear grins when they ripped that car.

SebringSilver

Whoa, can’t wait to see it.

fiatlux

It might be a while; I'm in no rush and I'll be waiting for the right one (UBM with the Premium package) at the right price (MSRP or less). No if, and, or buts.

fiatlux

Even though the rear legroom for the IS is pretty bad, the middle seat is actually more usable for a rear facing car seat than in the TLX. In both cars, the car seat fits in the space between the two front seats, so it doesn't affect front seat comfort. However, not only does the IS have a little bit more headroom, but it doesn't have a comically high center seat bottom like the TLX does, so the total vertical space in that seat is even better than the numbers would suggest. That's hugely important for getting them in and out of the seat without sliding them in horizontally (not fun when they're getting heavy) or banging their head on the ceiling. Now, if I had to fit a rear facing car seat behind the driver or passenger seat, then it's game over, but for one kid in the middle I've got no complaints.

F23A4

Watched a number of new IS500 videos and all reviewers (thus far) seem to be receiving it very well. Lexus ceated a far more viable alternative to S4 and C43 than the Acura. All that said, I can help but see its resemblance to the Toyota Camry SE from certain angles.

Great for the Camry but......

Kense

Absolutley no reason to buy a Type S over this if you want a Japanese car.

ross7777

Wait. It actually has a CD player?

fiatlux

It probably helped that there was far less fanfare and hype about this car leading up. Everyone already knew going in that this was not going to be some sort of track monster, but it would be an IS350 with one of the best V8s. A Japanese S4 with a V8 and RWD, so to speak. What we got is exactly what we expected (unlike with the Hype S), and at a price point that's very fair.

4G-Lover

...except the Scat Pack is faster, brakes better, it has higher skidpad numbers, you can put two adults in the back and do a COSTCO run with it trunk... and, good credit or not, it's still a 50K+ car....it's not like there are special lenders only for Dodge and SRT products are usually excluded from financing deals....

leomio2.0

Although true, you still can't deny the fact that they're quite prevalent in "the hood" as well as trailer parks. I know you're a MOPAR guy, and I honestly love Hellcat-anything, but that's not to say that there isn't any truth to the sentiment.

F23A4

ross7777

I have to say the Lexus interior is very dated though. Lots of stuff is the same in my NX300.

BEAR-AvHistory

I thought they were police cars & the car of choice in South Raleigh. Interesting how two poler opposite groups drive the same car.

4G-Lover

I do not deny that Dodge cars, on the cheap end, can be vehicles identified with certain demographics, you can have the El Cheapo special deal Charger/Challenger V6 or even RT pushed to subprime buyers but SRT products are not generally cars bought by people with poor credit at very high interest rates, they are expensive cars (relatively) to buy, they do not offer financing incentives and can be very expensive to maintain. Solid working class?? Absolutely...Subprime?? Not necessarily


I'm not a MOPAR guy, I just happen to own a Trackhawk at the moment (my wife's ride, coming from a GC SRT 6.4) and I just happen to think that the Charger is a terrific sport sedan for the money.....I would not buy a Challenger since, in the same segment, the Mustang and specially the Camaro are quite better sport cars.

By the way, all the high end trims of Dodge models today sticker higher than any Acura other than the unicorn NSX.

We need to be careful at putting people is well defined boxes....just recently our good friend recently cross shopped the Durango Hellcat with the Audi SQ7.....he is definitely not subprime material....

fiatlux

I don't know about your area, but in my area (pre-pandemic) dealers were selling Scat Pack Chargers for under $40K. They were being heavily discounted because not many people were buying them. I almost pulled the trigger on an F8 Green Scatpack that would have been $37K after including the "Power Dollars" discount on a car that stickered for $48K. I saw some base models that were as low as $32K after incentives. I don't think there's any better horsepower/dollar deal out there, but what stopped me from buying it was the pisspoor dealership experience I've had at multiple CDJR dealerships in the area. There is no way with a straight face you can say that the CDJR dealership experience is anywhere close to what you get at Lexus...they're almost entirely on opposite ends of the spectrum.

4G-Lover

P.S.

Conversely, Dodge least expensive car is still 3.5K more expensive and the cheapest Acura....is Acura a subprime brand??

fiatlux

Once you get up to the 392 and Hellcat, that usually prices out those type of folks, but by god do the R/T and Scat Packs attract the payday-loan types. A couple of the rental properties I own are Section 8 in a less than desirable areas, and the amount of those cars I see around there is unbelievable. Also a lot of Infinitis....

fiatlux

It's not based on the price of the car. It's who they are willing to finance. How many Acura dealerships are selling cars with 96 month loans at 5% APR? Probably not many, but I know my local CDJR dealership is. No credit? Bad credit? Come on down

4G-Lover

CDJR dealer experience is absolutely awful.....but, like you said, you get a crazy amount of performance value for the money and actually pretty good quality at least on the Charger/Challenger and Grand Cherokee/Durango models (I'm saying this as a former hater of Chrysler products, I had to get rid of my 300M 20 years ago out of desperation, it was such a lemon)
Heavy discounts on SRT products are definitely possible (I got my Trackhawk for 12K off MSRP, previously I got our GC SRT 6.4 for 8K off) but usually they are excluded from financing deals....no 0% on SRT/Scat Pack products

For me, as soon as I sign on the dotted line, I will never see the dealer again so I do not care.

4G-Lover

Again. I do not doubt it happens on the low end of the model range but, as far as I know, you do not get these financing deals on SRT/Scat Pack 6.4 & up.

fiatlux

At least back in 2019/2020, Scatpacks weren't being excluded from the 0% financing because it was just considered a package for the R/T model (the SRT 392 and Hellcats definitely were excluded). At the time, they had a 0% for 84 month with $0 downpayment that I had qualified for. Between that and the incentives, it was a hell of a deal and I still have second thoughts about not jumping on it.

fiatlux

Sure, but I don't know why you're equating Scat Pack with some high end car. Originally it was just a package on the R/T model (important distinction because insurance companies still considered it a regular R/T which would have made my premiums absurdly low compared to the SRT 392). Today I think you can spec it up to be a replacement for the SRT 392 that they no longer sell, and it's priced accordingly, but historically it was still a relatively cheap car. And as such, you can still buy it as a relatively cheap car; I'm willing to bet the distribution of Scat Pack sales still skews to the cheaper end based on how the cars on the lots around here are optioned.

4G-Lover

.....couple of compilation of "nice" hoods in Detroit and LA.....I do not see a definite higher presence of Dodge cars....

fiatlux

My dude in that first scene, of the 10 cars I counted, there was a Charger, an Avenger (I think), and a couple Caravans.

4G-Lover

The SRT 392 does not exist anymore, the Scat Pack has taken its place, you can spec it all the way to a fully equipped SRT 392.....the Scat Pack has always been equipped with the 6.4 motor on the 3rd generation Charger. It was more than just a package of the RT, the 6.4 engine, the 4 piston Brembo brakes (SRT had 6 piston and you can get these in a Scat Pack nowadays) different suspension, LSD and the SRT/Hellcat body look.

The Scat Pack is not a high end car for sure but is not subprime material either...it's very expensive to feed and maintain.

According to Dodge 40% of Charger sales are V8 and almost 1/3 of total are Scat Pack/Hellcat (pre pandemic 2019 data). The Charger is one of the few sedans that did not experience a significant contraction in sales in recent years.

4G-Lover

Pre-historic pieces do not count ...I will concede the Charger...a very old one that I'm ready to bet it was not bought new....

You should have.....
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