TSX69

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...date-yosemite/

2021 Acura TLX long-term update: Yosemite bound

How does the new TLX handle a 900-mile day of driving?

Kyle Hyatt
Feb. 3, 2021 2:00 a.m. PT

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Listen
- 02:56Even with 450 miles of road grime, the 2021 TLX is a handsome car.
Kyle Hyatt/Roadshow The 2021 Acura TLX sedan benefits from a whole bunch of fairly substantial upgrades, things like a reworked suspension, new styling, better tech and more. Seeing these upgrades on paper is one thing, but how do they affect the car's livability?

That's what we're aiming to find out with our long-term TLX SH-AWD, which I recently took on a trip from my home in Los Angeles up to Yosemite National Park. For those unfamiliar with California's geography, that's about 13 hours of driving, which I did in one day.

In the TLX, that journey was nowhere near as taxing as it might sound. The new double-wishbone front suspension and multilink rear do wonders for the TLX's handling characteristics and help deliver a smooth ride. That ride, coupled with the relatively luxe interior and comfortable seats, make for a great road-trip car.
Comfort and efficiency are high on the list of reasons to love the TLX.
Kyle Hyatt/Roadshow Of course, no car is without its weak points. I'm tall -- 6 feet, 4 inches, to be exact -- and a lot of my height is in my torso. Yet even with the driver's seat in its lowest position, I regularly found my head brushing the headliner. Is this a deal-breaker? No. Is it annoying? Yes.

From a mechanical standpoint, however, the TLX is flawless. The 2.0-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder engine offers plenty of passing power at all times, though the engine noise isn't what I'd call pleasant. The 10-speed automatic transmission works smoothly and helps deliver reasonable real-world fuel economy.

Speaking of fuel economy, I averaged around 26 miles per gallon over the 900 or so miles I drove, almost all of which were on the highway. That's a little bit short of the 29 mpg that the EPA shows for our Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive-equipped model, but also not bad, given the fact that I maintained above-average freeway speeds. I would like to see a car like the TLX sit somewhere in the 30-to-35-mpg range on the freeway, but it's a heavy car at almost 4,000 pounds with AWD, so something's gotta give. Still, after more than 3,000 miles of testing (so far), we're seeing just under 23 mpg, which is slightly below the EPA's 24-mpg combined rating.
Even after 13 hours in the driver's seat, I got home without feeling too tired or sore.
Kyle Hyatt/Roadshow The rest of the TLX experience -- infotainment, climate control, cargo space -- is all really pleasant. The ELS-branded audio system is decent, too, particularly with audiobooks. Even though my coworkers disagree, I think the infotainment system works well with Apple CarPlay, so navigation, etc., is easily handled through my phone.

Our TLX isn't a cheap car at almost $50,000, but it offers plenty of classic Acura/Honda driving dynamics and great build quality in a genuinely handsome package. The Acura TLX was meant as a bit of a comeback for the brand, and at first blush, it's certainly compelling. I'm looking forward to piling some more miles on it soon.

Legend2TL

^ 900 miles in a day

If you ever get the chance strongly recommend driving to Yosemite from San Francisco/San Jose area, there are some really great driving roads along the way along with some beautiful central California scenery

ELIN

I would have liked to know which drive mode he used the most to get those fuel econ numbers. Having a relatively tall driver do 900 miles and call it pleasant is certainly promising.

BEAR-AvHistory

Think we are to the point where everybody builds a nice car. That makes it very hard to change perception. An Acura guy is an Acura guy & a Toyota guy is a Toyota guy. There is no compelling reason to switch brands in either case.

Acura's problem is there is no place to go after the TLX. The Toyota guy as his income improves graduates to Lexus maybe even an Avalon driver getting a super Avalon AKA the Lexus ES. Based on the 2020 threads Audi seems to be the preferred growth option to TL/TLX drivers that don't repeat buy.

For as long as I have been here a majority of the TL/TLX sales seem to be from Honda owners moving up or repeat buyers. There are just not that many conquest sales being made. I was a semi conquest buyer in that my TL did not replace my 3 series it just added to it. Was a toss-up TL vs Accord. The TL's looks made the deal, a compelling reason to me.

Where I see an issue is Honda has a problem that BMW avoided. They let the Accord get too good in relation to the TLX. My gut feeling is if Honda had put an AWD system in the Accord they would have drained TLX sales then emulated FORD & make Acura a SUV company.

BMW use horsepower, performance & features to separate sales within it lines but maintains some overlap segment to segment. The 3 series in the US goes from 255BHP 330 @ $41K base to a 503BHP M3C @ $73K. The 3 series is over lapped both in power & price Bottom to Top, The bottom by the 2 series & the top by the 5 series. This gives a seamless progression to more & more expensive cars. Creates strong brand loyalty.

GM invented this system & after WWII both the Germans & Japanese jumped on it to kick start their auto industries. Honda also adopted it but for some reason (economics?) never went past stage one with their premium brand. They got out of the staring gate first among the Japanese manufactures but tripped right away by not developing an RWD V8 platform as the premier offering. Both Lexus & Infiniti came out in V8 format. Infiniti tripped up further on, IIRC the had the strongest initial model, and have never really recovered (economics?)

Hunyadi has had a problem with Genesis a good product, RWD, V8 platform but no real stand alone dealer network. I bought one at a Hunyadi dealer but its hard for many high premium buyers to accept that . Think that is an easier fix than what is facing Acura. From a marketing point of view they want Type-S to be aimed directly at the M340 X-drive with a price point advantage. Not sure they can do it cost wise & don't believe 355BHP will make them a player against the German trio but it should do with Lexus & Infiniti counterparts.

Be interesting to see if they missed the next wave going V6 DOHC Turbo instead of I6 DOHC Turbo. MB is switching back & the new Toyota/Mazda collaboration is a fresh I6 DOHC Turbo that will be in both brands cars. Way easer to get a lot of grunt out of an I6 than a V6.

3 Liter I6 regular production engines have already surpassed 500BHP. Hot Rod aftermarket versions are at 1000BHP.

F23A4

[Insert BMW/AUDI photos and specs here]

Legend2TL

ELIN

No love for Benz?

It hasn't shaken its AARP image yet?

neuronbob

That was a great article, thanks for sharing! Of course, I’m aware of why Americans choose SUVs. I just am not a fan , with the possible exception of the Durango, which for some bizarre reason I love.

BEAR-AvHistory

The devil made me do it.

The M5 version best performer of the X series SUV's looks like:

X5 M50i
4.4-liter BMW M TwinPower Turbo V-8 engine
xDrive, intelligent all-wheel drive
523 HP
22 MPG
4.1 sec 0-60 MPH

X5 M
4.4-liter BMW M TwinPower Turbo V-8
M xDrive all-wheel-drive system
600 HP
18 MPG
3.8 sec 0-60 MPH

Just 2 of the 70 car models they make.

Nexx

blah blah blah blah blah

Nexx

Bro we all don't live 0-60 or a quarter mile at a time like you do. BMW and Mercedes can get away with building near super car sedans and sell them. Acura not so much. Hell Lexus cant either. They tried it with a GS-F and it failed. Infiniti tops out on a Red Sport. Stop crying about what Acura doesnt build and go buy something else and piss and moan on their forums please.

bilirubin

Don’t let this distract you from the fact that Hector is going to be running 3 Honda Civics with Spoon engines, and on top of that, he just went into Harry’s and bought 3 T66 turbos with NOS, and a Motec exhaust system.

TSX69

a35tl

^^^
That was painful to watch at times.

Tesla1856

Actually, I kinda like this guy (a fellow Texan). I found him a while back and watched his older review of 2020 TLX.
He actually knows something about Acura's but he get WAY to excited about TLX A-Specs.

BEAR-AvHistory

My car world is a lot broader than just the C&D stats that all are waiting for featuring the V6 DOHC Turbo Type-S. Wonder why with some attitudes about performance measurements here like yours they would even make such an Acura?

BTW My quickest car the roadster is not a 1/4 mile car specialist although it is a sub 3 second car to 60. Sees a bit of Auto-X in season along with track days and a lot of daily driving when its sunny in the sunny south.

Actually I drive a well rounded group in addition to the Cobra roadster. A solid high speed comfortable over the road 2 seat convertible to get from point A to point B quickly, A Strong 420BHP 4X4 SUV for people, things + towing, An off road capable 4X4 pickup truck (sort of an NC requirement) for general stuff & hunting season. Guess I would have to say my living by 1/4's & 60's is very far from reality although it is fun.

Expect the only ones crying about what Acura doesn't do are the poor guys who have to try making a living selling them. They might actually sell better if the performance car adds were caned, not raising expectations & the TLX advertised to its obvious strength a very nice competent family car.

ELIN

Competent, yes. I would not call it a family car (this is not the Accord).

I'm only a couple years removed from needing to put a kid in/out of a carseat. I can't tell you how many times I've hit my head on the roofline when exiting the back seat of taller sedans. This TLX is the lowest roofline sedan I've had.

In a pinch, younger kids not needing car seats can be transported in the rear but as they get older, that sloping roofline may impact comfort. I see this TLX as a cool commuter car and shouldn't be the car families use for trips. I'd say it's really for young couples with no kids or with older kids that can buckle themselves in. The TLX makes a nice 2nd or 3rd car but should never be the only car in a growing family. My 2 cents.

BEAR-AvHistory

See what you mean. With a non car seat requirement should make a solid family class, if larger school age kids up into the teens will fit OK. Have tried the front seats but never the back ones when I was in for annual service & state inspection so I can't comment. Acura marketing seems to have a unique skill in winding up with a twiner. Not quite a sports sedan & not quite a family car for very young. A bit more power on one side a bit more room on the other side is all it would take. A bit of both would be ideal. Maybe they will pull a shocker and turn up the boost about 4PSI on the new V6.

Its a shame they are continuing on from 2010 in building a very good car that too many people will not even give it a look because of bad advertising. Maybe they are tied to image that in its time, 11 years ago, the 3G had. That was when Acura lived its life 0-60 & 1/4 mile better than all the rest, sold 70,000+ TL's a year & had a packed Acurazine Forum. It also had room for baby seats & taking the grandkids to school & back.

Still believe 100% if they build a campaign around its good points they would have better sales results from more floor traffic. Soon as the push the sports sedan concept, the sports guys look to the quick cars as competition & the all round usage family guys think "I don't live 0-60" & look at Accord & Camry

Legend2TL

Good question, I think it's mostly the culture and attitude of the country in general. But the car company's culture/process/procedures also plays a significant role, as well as if there are unions and the relationship with them.

The best though is when you apply both countries together, when Porsche's new CEO Wendelin Wiedeking knew how bad Porsche's operation and quality were in '94 they hired Shingijutsu (ex-Toyota executives well versed in TPS) as consultants to revise and redesign how Porsche operated. Took about a decade to implement but Porsche's reputation for quality and efficiency blew past MB/BMW/Audi in the 2000's where those three companies produced fair to poor quality cars. Porsche got so good at operations research, they created their own management consulting group that had VW, Audi, Lufthansa, and other German companies as their customers. Which probably explains why Audi got better in the 2010's for overall quality.

Everything I've read about Toyota and Honda's operations in the US is they've sorta blended their Japanese work culture for their US operations. AFAIK, the start of shift calisthenics has faded long ago but the red handle (known as the Andon Cord) line stop is still used for halting the assembly line if there is a immediate problem as gets used frequently. Both hire a fair number of former US automakers management and engineers.

jhb31

I don't think anyone really thinks the type S will have M series performance. But it has to be substantially better than what Acura has put out in the past with the TLX. I understand where you are coming from but the TLX is getting to the price level where it needs to be at least close in performance to German cars than may be 5 or 10k more that understate their HP. Having owned the 1st gen TLX it was the slowest feeling near 300HP car I have driven (and felt much slower than the 3rd gen type S rated at 286). I don't think Acura ever understates the HP but a better trans will go a long way to improving the feel.

If you're buying a Type S you should expect a nice 0-60 time, otherwise why bother? Otherwise you get a car that has good show but no go.

Mikey319

is anyone's transmission very jumpy and kind of jerky at lower speeds? It hesitates quite frequently when rolling in the parking lots around the 5-15mph speed. Mine also tends to jerk a bit when coasting down from 35mph tp 28mph and it keeps my RPM revved around 2k. It has overall not been feeling great when shifting. I am quickly not loving this car any more and almost wish I went with another Maxima.

leomio85

It's the same transmission (AFAIK) as the RDX. Mine was very similar when knew. It was a purported problem with the Accords too. These transmissions seem to take time to "break in". Now it drives pretty smoothly. I remember when it was new that it was a bit jerky and you could noticeably feel downshifts when slowing at lights. Just give it some time, if things don't get better after a few months and a few more thousand miles, I'd take a trip to the dealer.

Terragotti

I'm starting to see more of them on the streets and they looking good and solid, The curves, front facia, growing on me more every day, Nice car.

Mikey319

that’s the issue, it /was/ feeling great and shifting fine. Now it isn’t :/ I’m at 1,970 miles now. it
also feels rougher over bumps than when I got it.

ELIN

Perhaps your minor accident impacted the car more than you think?

Tony Pac

Legend2TL

^ First review driving in snow

Mikey319

it was happening before hand

TSX69

TSX69

TSX69

https://www.thecarconnection.com/new...s-compare-cars

2021 Acura TLX vs. 2021 Lexus ES: Compare Cars

2021 Acura TLX

#12 in Luxury Mid-Size Cars
7.2
Expert Rating

People's Vote

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Read full review »

2021 Lexus ES

#8 in Luxury Mid-Size Cars
7.3
Expert Rating

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Read full review »
Kirk Bell Senior Editor

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February 19, 2021Mid-size sedans aren’t the mainstay of American driveways that they used to be, but they still offer practicality and value. We count them among some of the best vehicles on the market, especially in the premium and luxury segments.

The 2021 Acura TLX and 2021 Lexus ES both exist in that space between mainstream cars and luxury stalwarts like Audi, BMW, and Mercedes. However, recent redesigns for both have brought them closer to true luxury. They’ve also gotten sportier and better looking.

We find a lot to like in both cars, but which is the better choice?



The TLX’s redesign moves the cabin back to create a longer hood that imparts the look of a rear-wheel-drive car, though it’s still front-wheel drive. Angles and creases flow from the attractive diamond-pattern grille to create a cohesive design with wide wheel haunches and a rising character line that creates forward tension. A short deck completes the athletic stance.

The Lexus isn’t the staid ES of days gone by. It’s bolder and sportier, with a large spool-shaped grille that’s better integrated than on most Lexus vehicles. The body is characterized by a grounded stance, a long roofline that resolves in a short deck, and taut, athletic lines.

We think the TLX is better looking, but not by much.

The TLX also excels in performance. A strong new platform, quick steering, and a double-wishbone front suspension provide athletic moves. Available adaptive dampers balance the car’s agility with a smooth ride quality, and available all-wheel drive improves handling by controlling torque at the rear wheels. It’s spirited and fun to drive.

Acura injects a touch too much spirit into the new 272-hp 2.0-liter turbo-4. Well matched to its 10-speed automatic transmission, it launches the car from 0-60 mph in less than six seconds, and provides EPA fuel economy ratings as high as 22 mpg city, 31 highway and 25 combined. However, Acura lets in too much engine noise and pipes in more in Sport mode—so much so that it disrupts conversation. Some will find the engine note annoying.

Lexus takes a different approach in terms of powertrains and handling. The base engine is a pedestrian 203-hp 2.5-liter inline-4 that’s weaker than the Acura’s turbo-4 but gets better fuel economy at 25/34/28 mpg. An available hybrid gets impressive ratings of 43/44/44 mpg and provides a slight jump to 215 hp, which enables a still leisurely 8.1-second 0-60 mph time. The top engine is a smooth and sonorous 3.5-liter V-6 that puts out 302 hp and cuts the 0-60 mph sprint to the TLX’s ballpark. The base engine comes with all-wheel drive, but all other ES models have only front-wheel drive.

The ES’s handling also isn’t as sharp, though it is quite competent on a winding road. Satisfying steering and a well-damped ride are its baseline, and the F Sport model adds more steering heft and agility. It’s not as sporty as the TLX, but the ES does provide some driving pleasure.



Both cars exude quality in their cabins, and both offer color and trim choices that can skew toward elegance or sportiness, but the Lexus has more space for people and cargo. Unfortunately, both brands also opt for touchpad-based infotainment systems that we count among the worst on the market for ease of use.

The TLX has comfortable and supportive front seats with 12- or 16-way adjustments and standard seat heating. Its 2nd row provides excellent thigh support and enough room for three across, but leg room can be tight for taller occupants. At 13.5 cubic feet, the trunk is small for the class.

The TLX employs premium materials in a modern design with the infotainment screen set atop the dash. A rotary drive mode knob design borrowed from the NSX supercar implies performance, and rich leathers and woods impart luxury.



The ES’s seats have 10-way power adjustments with available 14-way thrones and sportier buckets. The big advantage over the TLX is an additional 4.3 inches of rear leg room. The trunk is also slightly larger at 13.9 cubic feet, even for the hybrid.

Lexus wraps the ES cockpit in luxury, with soft-touch surfaces and wood or aluminum on all touch points. Lexus also borrows its drive-mode controller design from a supercar, the limited-run LFA of a decade ago. It’s an elegant cabin that would look right in a car twice the price.

That luxury is tempered by frustrating infotainment systems that require owners to control what happens on the center screen with a touchpad. Users have to look back and forth between the pad and the screen, and the systems require a degree of fingertip dexterity that shouldn’t be required to control infotainment.



Both cars come well equipped, and Lexus offers a larger lineup with more options. The TLX starts at $38,525, with all-wheel drive a $2,000 option. Standard features include heated synthetic leather seats, a 10.2-inch center screen, Apple CarPlay and Android Auto compatibility, a 10-speaker audio system, and 18-inch alloy wheels.

Lexus charges more for a car with a lesser engine but standard all-wheel drive. The base ES costs $41,450 and comes standard with an 8.0-inch screen, Apple CarPlay and Android Auto compatibility, synthetic leather, and 17-inch alloy wheels. We find the $43,360 hybrid model a better buy.

Lexus offers a larger lineup, but the Acura comes off as a better value, so we rate the cars the same for features.

Safety goes to Lexus, though likely just temporarily. The ES gets top ratings in crash tests from both the NHTSA and the IIHS, while the Acura has just IIHS ratings, where it earns the highest score. Once NHTSA testing comes in, safety will likely be a wash.

Both cars come standard with automatic emergency braking, active lane control, and adaptive cruise control. Both also make blind-spot monitors and rear cross-traffic alerts available.

Our TCC ratings run neck and neck. The 2021 Lexus ES rates a 7.3 out of 10 while the 2021 Acura TLX rates a 7.2, which is likely to go to 7.3 when NHTSA testing is completed. We prefer the Acura’s looks and handling, but we like the space and safety record of the ES. In addition, the ES offers a wider lineup with a hybrid, while the Acura’s lone engine is better than the Lexus’ base offering. We recommend both cars and view the choice a matter of taste.

MORE: Compare detailed specs for 2021 Acura TLX and 2021 Lexus ES

Summary

7.2
The 2021 Acura TLX plants its flag among premium mid-size sedans with a racy design, strong turbocharged engines, and improved dynamics.
7.3
The 2021 Lexus ES grabs some of the LS’ spotlight with its sleek shape and its sky-high hybrid economy.

Styling

8.0
The 2021 Acura TLX takes on a sportier, more emotional design inside and out.
Read More
7.0
The Lexus ES does the best job of interpreting the brand’s complex design language.
Read More

Performance

7.0
The 2021 Acura TLX boasts a stiff structure and improved balance that help it drive smaller than its size.
Read More
7.0
The Lexus ES shows off its range, in more ways than one.
Read More

Comfort & Quality

8.0
Good space and high-quality materials make the 2021 Acura TLX’s cabin a comfortable environment for the driver and passengers.
Read More
9.0
Well-wrought and spacious, the Lexus ES exudes quality.
Read More

Safety

8.0
The 2021 Acura TLX has lots of safety features and good crash test scores.
Read More
9.0
The Lexus ES nails its safety SATs.
Read More

Features

7.0
The 2021 Acura TLX comes well equipped in a simple lineup.
Read More
7.0
A good feature set is offset slightly by a frustrating infotainment interface in the 2020 Lexus ES.
Read More

Fuel Economy

5.0
The 2021 Acura TLX is efficient for its size and power.
Read More
5.0
Fuel economy soars in the Lexus ES hybrid; it’s average in other editions.
Read More

MSRP

from $37,500
from $40,000

Invoice

from $36,554
from $37,468

Fuel Economy - Combined City and Highway

25
26

Engine

Intercooled Turbo Premium Unleaded I-4, 2.0 L
Regular Unleaded V-6, 3.5 L

Drivetrain

Front Wheel Drive Read Full Specs
Front Wheel Drive Read Full Specs

F23A4

IMHO, that's the best looking ES to date....and many props to Toyota for keeping the 3.5L V6. Definitely, an area where Acura fell short.

bilirubin

A couple more reviews, I think at this point >95% of reviews have been positive...

Flapjackura

I will watch these, thanks for posting. I too am seeing mostly positive reviews. The only fairly harsh review I have seen is Consumer Reports - and their opinion is tiresomely predictable, since the TLX2 has limited appeal to those of a predisposition that tends toward a borderline obsessive resistance to track-pad controlled infotainment systems.

Honda430

CR took the position that the infotainment interface was the main reason not to buy the car. The high handedness of that position led me to completely discount any opinion they had on the vehicle. By the way, the infotainment systems were factored into their road scores. They don’t seem to understand that unlike a few other manufacturers none of the active vehicle controls are made through the system.

Flapjackura

It's ridiculous. Every modern car has the warning disclaimer on the screen at start-up, warning that the infotainment system, whether it is controlled by a track pad, knob, joystick, touch-screen, or ropes/pulleys, is distracting by its vary nature - and should be used minimally while driving. CR never takes this into account. They hold things against cars in their reviews that should have minimal bearing on their overall score. It's even more pathetically hilarious to read their reviews of sports coupes. I laughed out loud at the magazine rack in Barnes and Noble when I read their review of the current Toyota Supra, which contained tons of wasted copy space bitching about stuff like excessive road noise and cramped interior. Yeah, those "problems" in a sport coupe?? The horror!!

pyrodan007

It's not just the infotainment, they were also pretty pissed with the fuel economy. Not present in statement, but rear seat also plays a role. Now, to be scored much lower versus the IS, that I'm not too sure (58 vs 70).
"But the loud cabin, confounding infotainment touchpad, and unimpressive fuel economy result in a road-test score—and an overall driving experience—that falls short of its luxury sports sedan competition."

bilirubin

Besides Consumer Reports, TheStraightPipes were also quite negative. But it was over trivial things like the lack of voice-recognition of "Yakub W" (the name of one of the reviewers), or the amount of parking pawl when the parking-brake isn't used.

Tony Pac

Honestly, I am still surprised that people read or even bother with CR. Their likes and dislikes are beyond laughable. If I am not mistaken it was early 2000s, when they reviewed Mazda RX-8 and they criticized that the back door is too small. As of that day, I stopped listening or reading their reviews about cars. I was like dude, this is the most clever thing. it's a two door vehicle and still they give you an easy access for the back. They don't know sh1t! They were probably good 50 years ago lol

Flapjackura

"Loud cabin"? I've had mine for 3 months and the only thing loud in my cabin is the terrific ELS sound system. Fuel economy? Bah! It's decent considering the weight of the vehicle. And, like I said - factoring infotainment into the driving experience is unfair, as the driving experience should not be judged by fiddling around with a control system that should not be fiddled around with at all while on the move. If you're not interacting with infotainment in a vehicle on the move by using only the voice activation features via the ones built into the car or in Apple CP/Android Auto, then you're not using it safely in the first place - and that's not the car's fault.