Turbo Kit for Acura TL '04-'08
#4801
Safety Car
iTrader: (3)
There will never be a normal running FI car. Your right about the valve's and as many don't agree with me pushing the rods and bearings past 7k isn't the best either.
This is a complete kit already minus the tune/gauges/water-meth and 3" exhaust. Not sure how much of this thread you have read but the J series has come a long way in the last 6-8 months as closed loop has a solution as well as AEM makes an FIC to control timing and everything else you would need to do.
This is a complete kit already minus the tune/gauges/water-meth and 3" exhaust. Not sure how much of this thread you have read but the J series has come a long way in the last 6-8 months as closed loop has a solution as well as AEM makes an FIC to control timing and everything else you would need to do.
If drivability was not there, what is the sense in doing this.
The intent all along was to have horsepower that can be a DD.
That is what I have.
#4802
Race Director
#4804
Race Director
You can't guarantee anything from that. That is with the OEM pillar cover which easily gives way due to it's purposely designed flimsiness and flexibility.
The gauge mod is all one molded piece which doesn't look anywhere near as flexible as the OEM cover. Can't really tell what the material is from the pictures.
So, again, where has this been covered?
The gauge mod is all one molded piece which doesn't look anywhere near as flexible as the OEM cover. Can't really tell what the material is from the pictures.
So, again, where has this been covered?
#4805
Drifting
iTrader: (1)
You can't guarantee anything from that. That is with the OEM pillar cover which easily gives way due to it's purposely designed flimsiness and flexibility.
The gauge mod is all one molded piece which doesn't look anywhere near as flexible as the OEM cover. Can't really tell what the material is from the pictures.
So, again, where has this been covered?
The gauge mod is all one molded piece which doesn't look anywhere near as flexible as the OEM cover. Can't really tell what the material is from the pictures.
So, again, where has this been covered?
#4806
Race Director
The following users liked this post:
cmluckett (06-10-2011)
#4808
MY KBP IS BTR THN URS...
#4809
Team Owner
All you're doing is changing the cutoff point from 0 vacuum to positive manifold pressure. That's it! There is no down side besides cost when done right.
Keeping the stock engine specs (heads/cams/etc), all the specs that influence drivability and adding a little positive pressure will not hurt drivability.
I know I mention it way too much but I proved it with a 600rwhp 6 cylinder that ran deep 10s on the weekend (a 9 second combo that never made it to the track) and drove me 210 miles round trip to work during the week. There's absolutely no reason why the TL can't do the same thing.
There are very minor things that used to be an issue back when I was getting into this in the '90s. Finding an injector that could be pulled back to very low PW for a good idle and supply enough fuel for 100hp per injector was hard to find but these days they're available and cheap. Turbo lag is a thing of the past. Pulling knock at a quicker rate and avoiding it altogether.
The only tuning things you guys are running into is honestly figuring out how much R&D goes into the factory ECU in regards to drivability.
Just about anyone can have a quick race car. Having a very quick street car with good manners is so much more fun to me.
#4810
Team Owner
What I'm really looking forward to is Rodney soon finding the limit of the bone stock long block with no knock. I bet it can touch 500whp as long as there is ZERO knock.
#4813
18psi
iTrader: (7)
Looking for info on acl bearings. I havent found anything made for the TL or Accord j series. May have to send ACL some samples to take measurements and make a set for the TL.
Bmeyer, I know your building your motor as well....are you going oem or aftermarket for your bearings?
Bmeyer, I know your building your motor as well....are you going oem or aftermarket for your bearings?
#4814
I ended up going the OEM route, though for the f'n hassle that I had to go through with them I should have looked for an alternative. I basically had to end up ordering two complete sets because so many of them came damaged. They basically just threw them in a box with no padding and let them rattle around for the whole 1000+ mile journey.
#4816
I'm not overly concerned with them at this point. I think a lot of other things are going to break before I have to worry about the bearings. Like you, I did a good amount of searching for an alternative when I did mine, but came up empty handed. I briefly spoke with John over at KMS a little about it and he didn't seem to have much of an issue with them.
#4817
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
#4818
Out of curiosity, what are you guys gapping your plugs at? The service manual calls for 0.039" - 0.043", but that seems a little high. I picked up a set of NGK BKR8EIX plugs which come pre-gapped at 0.027".
#4819
Team Owner
I'd like to add my two cents on main and rod bearings.... Run a high end oil, minimum 30wt and you will have no issues with stock bearings unless the J series has some inherent design issue. As long as you have no crank journal to bearing contact while running, you're not going to hurt the bearings in high hp. Plus they're more tolerant to debris. Dirt or whatever makes it's way into the bearing will enbed itself instead of killing the crank. It's always a trade-off, kill the bearings or kill the crank.
Running a good rod that will have less deformation (egg shaping) under high power/high rpm actually decreases the jorunal bearing hardness requirements.
In my case I run bearings slightly wider than stock but barely any harder. You can do this is your rod width is quite a bit wider than the stock bearing width.
And let's not forget rod side clearance. It's extremely important for oil pressure, journal bearing life, and cylinder/piston lube. Too tight and you don't get enough oil to the cylinders and while pressure will be good, flow goes down and bearing temps go up. Too loose and oil pressure is too low and you end up with bearing to crank contact.
Again, oil type and weight is very important at this point.
Running a good rod that will have less deformation (egg shaping) under high power/high rpm actually decreases the jorunal bearing hardness requirements.
In my case I run bearings slightly wider than stock but barely any harder. You can do this is your rod width is quite a bit wider than the stock bearing width.
And let's not forget rod side clearance. It's extremely important for oil pressure, journal bearing life, and cylinder/piston lube. Too tight and you don't get enough oil to the cylinders and while pressure will be good, flow goes down and bearing temps go up. Too loose and oil pressure is too low and you end up with bearing to crank contact.
Again, oil type and weight is very important at this point.
#4821
Team Owner
Stock ignition under high boost/high cylinder pressures, you're probably right on at .027. You don't want misfires under full throttle and boost, very bad. It's much better to err on the small side.
#4822
Thanks for the input, guys! It's much appreciated.
Regarding the engine oil, the plan is to run Royal Purple Engine Break-In (mineral) oil combined with an RP filter during the break-in process. Once broken in, I'll still run the RP... something in the neighborhood of 10w30. I'm also running an extra quart (give or take) due to the oil cooler.
Regarding the engine oil, the plan is to run Royal Purple Engine Break-In (mineral) oil combined with an RP filter during the break-in process. Once broken in, I'll still run the RP... something in the neighborhood of 10w30. I'm also running an extra quart (give or take) due to the oil cooler.
#4823
i dont know much about engine oil but after i saw TSX trans with RP in it for about 50k i will never use that stuff. ALL the synchros were worn to shit! the owner knows how to drive and had only been down the quarter about 5-6 times.
#4824
18psi
iTrader: (7)
i called acl and spoke to a tech. they have nothing that would work for us. not even something from the j30 accords. they said i could send in samples but it would take several months to produce b/c they do their tech work in australia lol. then we need a minimum batch order of like 500 units. not gonna happen
my plugs are gapped at .020
im was planning on running redline 10w30
my plugs are gapped at .020
im was planning on running redline 10w30
#4825
i called acl and spoke to a tech. they have nothing that would work for us. not even something from the j30 accords. they said i could send in samples but it would take several months to produce b/c they do their tech work in australia lol. then we need a minimum batch order of like 500 units. not gonna happen
#4826
Team Owner
Thanks for the input, guys! It's much appreciated.
Regarding the engine oil, the plan is to run Royal Purple Engine Break-In (mineral) oil combined with an RP filter during the break-in process. Once broken in, I'll still run the RP... something in the neighborhood of 10w30. I'm also running an extra quart (give or take) due to the oil cooler.
Regarding the engine oil, the plan is to run Royal Purple Engine Break-In (mineral) oil combined with an RP filter during the break-in process. Once broken in, I'll still run the RP... something in the neighborhood of 10w30. I'm also running an extra quart (give or take) due to the oil cooler.
I'm not trying to start an oil debate but I don't want to see all of your hard work down the drain in a year's time.
#4830
Team Owner
That's what I ran for many years. I've never seen any CFM ratings but when I went from ~500rwhp to the current 602, the filter became restrictive. Had to go with a 14" tapered cone. I don't know how much power you guys are making or plan to make but the 9" tapered with 4" inlet is basically the most widely used and will work for just about any setup. If you plan to surpass 500whp I would think about a larger filter.
The issue is that any restriction pre-turbo affects power much more than NA. It causes more exhaust back pressure, hotter charge air temps, and more lag. You want the turbo to think there is nothing in front of it.
The issue is that any restriction pre-turbo affects power much more than NA. It causes more exhaust back pressure, hotter charge air temps, and more lag. You want the turbo to think there is nothing in front of it.
#4831
Team Owner
Waaay too small. Ideally you want a solid 6" of straight shot to the compressor wheel but in your case it would be beneficial to add a large 45 and run the 9" filter. If you have any choice, just make the elbow come off the turbo for as far as possible before the bend.
#4833
Team Owner
The filter oil is a non issue. Only an issue in MAF equipped cars. FWIW, my car had the PCV right before the turbo. In stock form the compressor wheel was always oily, a lot more than you would ever get from the filter. It's not ideal of course but it's not something to worry about.
#4834
Safety Car
iTrader: (3)
Waaay too small. Ideally you want a solid 6" of straight shot to the compressor wheel but in your case it would be beneficial to add a large 45 and run the 9" filter. If you have any choice, just make the elbow come off the turbo for as far as possible before the bend.
I made the run as long as I could and the end of the filter is only 2-3 inches from the firewall. It's a real bitch to get in and out.
I'm told with the ECU that I'll have a tune in the 400whp range. Rodney is working on getting more but it will require modified rdx injectors. At 400hp, he said the injector duty cycle was around 75%. Not sure if I want to get into the realm of building internals and probably will stay below 500whp.
Last edited by KN_TL; 06-16-2011 at 08:10 PM.
#4835
Team Owner
That's what I have. I took a 45 and cut it almost in half (about 22 deg) to get under the charge pipe and the under hood fuse box. Had to remove the bottom of the box to make it fit.
I made the run as long as I could and the end of the filter is only 2-3 inches from the firewall. It's a real bitch to get in and out.
I'm told with the ECU that I'll have a tune in the 400whp range. Rodney is working on getting more but it will require modified rdx injectors. At 400hp, he said the injector duty cycle was around 75%. Not sure if I want to get into the realm of building internals and probably will stay below 500whp.
I made the run as long as I could and the end of the filter is only 2-3 inches from the firewall. It's a real bitch to get in and out.
I'm told with the ECU that I'll have a tune in the 400whp range. Rodney is working on getting more but it will require modified rdx injectors. At 400hp, he said the injector duty cycle was around 75%. Not sure if I want to get into the realm of building internals and probably will stay below 500whp.
#4836
I've only got a minute but PLEASE reconsider running RP for an engine oil. I know many times oil threads are opinionated and subjective but one thing I've seen in high specific output engines 99% of the time is excessive wear when running hard and running RP. It will not provide adequate protection in your situation. I consider Mobil One EP oils an upgrade from RP.
Also, as far as the filter goes, I'm running the V2 turbo piping. I believe that Rodney said that I'll have to run an HKS SMF filter. I need to double-check with him though. There seems to be very little room to put a filter on the turbo with this setup.
#4837
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
No kidding? Wow. Good to know. Is there anything better than M1 EP, in your opinion? I've got no problem ordering it if it's not in stock. I'd rather have the protection than the convenience of being able to pick up a quart whenever I need to.
Also, as far as the filter goes, I'm running the V2 turbo piping. I believe that Rodney said that I'll have to run an HKS SMF filter. I need to double-check with him though. There seems to be very little room to put a filter on the turbo with this setup.
Also, as far as the filter goes, I'm running the V2 turbo piping. I believe that Rodney said that I'll have to run an HKS SMF filter. I need to double-check with him though. There seems to be very little room to put a filter on the turbo with this setup.
#4838
Safety Car
iTrader: (3)
No kidding? Wow. Good to know. Is there anything better than M1 EP, in your opinion? I've got no problem ordering it if it's not in stock. I'd rather have the protection than the convenience of being able to pick up a quart whenever I need to.
Also, as far as the filter goes, I'm running the V2 turbo piping. I believe that Rodney said that I'll have to run an HKS SMF filter. I need to double-check with him though. There seems to be very little room to put a filter on the turbo with this setup.
Also, as far as the filter goes, I'm running the V2 turbo piping. I believe that Rodney said that I'll have to run an HKS SMF filter. I need to double-check with him though. There seems to be very little room to put a filter on the turbo with this setup.
With regard to the air filter, I thought the same thing about the V1 configuration. But after looking at things for what seemed like 100hrs, I was able to work out an alternative. My wife would come out in the garage and ask me what I was staring at.
#4839
Redline it is.
Hahahaha. Sadly, I know exactly what you're talking about.
I'll have to snap some pics this weekend and send them your way. I just don't see a way around putting a filter on this type of setup.
Hahahaha. Sadly, I know exactly what you're talking about.
I'll have to snap some pics this weekend and send them your way. I just don't see a way around putting a filter on this type of setup.
Last edited by bmeyer; 06-16-2011 at 09:02 PM.
#4840
Team Owner
If the filter is restricting things, the turbo will still make the same boost up to a point. However, the pressure ratio is now greater so it's the same thing as turning the boost up but without the benefits. The turbo is working harder to provide the same boost level so it's raising outlet temps and slightly increasing exhaust backpressure since more exhaust will be going through the turbine instead of being bypassed through the wastegate. Of course, a restriction on this side of the turbo hurts spool too. How noticeable depends on how large the restriction was in the first place.
If you can't get the filter area needed, you'll have to go with one of the ultra high flowing medias that will basically keep out boulders and small animals lol.