Please define 'normal'

If drivability was not there, what is the sense in doing this.

The intent all along was to have horsepower that can be a DD.

That is what I have.

 

Where? And again, I'm sure the air bag will deploy but where do the gauges go when it does?

 

there u go bud. i found this in 2 minutes by using the search functions on this website by searching this thread for "airbag"

you should of tried it....

 

You can't guarantee anything from that. That is with the OEM pillar cover which easily gives way due to it's purposely designed flimsiness and flexibility.

The gauge mod is all one molded piece which doesn't look anywhere near as flexible as the OEM cover. Can't really tell what the material is from the pictures.

So, again, where has this been covered?

 

ok you have your own opinion that the gauge pod will spear you in the head. just stick with that. we know you wont install it so lets leave the topic alone

 

When you figure out where this has all been covered before, let me know...Thanks!

 

You ever have a day when you don't question everyone's statement. Damn

BTW, look more closely at Rodney's pictures. The original cover is still there.

 

Are you referring to kikazz's car?

Wasn't his motor also built if so?

 

Agreed. I firmly believe a turbo is THE way to have stock-like drivability with double the factory power.

All you're doing is changing the cutoff point from 0 vacuum to positive manifold pressure. That's it! There is no down side besides cost when done right.

Keeping the stock engine specs (heads/cams/etc), all the specs that influence drivability and adding a little positive pressure will not hurt drivability.

I know I mention it way too much but I proved it with a 600rwhp 6 cylinder that ran deep 10s on the weekend (a 9 second combo that never made it to the track) and drove me 210 miles round trip to work during the week. There's absolutely no reason why the TL can't do the same thing.

There are very minor things that used to be an issue back when I was getting into this in the '90s. Finding an injector that could be pulled back to very low PW for a good idle and supply enough fuel for 100hp per injector was hard to find but these days they're available and cheap. Turbo lag is a thing of the past. Pulling knock at a quicker rate and avoiding it altogether.

The only tuning things you guys are running into is honestly figuring out how much R&D goes into the factory ECU in regards to drivability.

Just about anyone can have a quick race car. Having a very quick street car with good manners is so much more fun to me.

 

It had forged internals.

What I'm really looking forward to is Rodney soon finding the limit of the bone stock long block with no knock. I bet it can touch 500whp as long as there is ZERO knock.

 

yes but xiomaros car or whatever his name is was a type-s and there is another type-s that he is doing now

 

heard muh name! lol

 

Looking for info on acl bearings. I havent found anything made for the TL or Accord j series. May have to send ACL some samples to take measurements and make a set for the TL.

Bmeyer, I know your building your motor as well....are you going oem or aftermarket for your bearings?

 

I ended up going the OEM route, though for the f'n hassle that I had to go through with them I should have looked for an alternative. I basically had to end up ordering two complete sets because so many of them came damaged. They basically just threw them in a box with no padding and let them rattle around for the whole 1000+ mile journey.

 

^Do you have any concerns with using oem bearings on your high hp build? I would think your shooting for ATLEAST 500 to the wheels right?

 

I'm not overly concerned with them at this point. I think a lot of other things are going to break before I have to worry about the bearings. Like you, I did a good amount of searching for an alternative when I did mine, but came up empty handed. I briefly spoke with John over at KMS a little about it and he didn't seem to have much of an issue with them.

 

 

Out of curiosity, what are you guys gapping your plugs at? The service manual calls for 0.039" - 0.043", but that seems a little high. I picked up a set of NGK BKR8EIX plugs which come pre-gapped at 0.027".

 

I'd like to add my two cents on main and rod bearings.... Run a high end oil, minimum 30wt and you will have no issues with stock bearings unless the J series has some inherent design issue. As long as you have no crank journal to bearing contact while running, you're not going to hurt the bearings in high hp. Plus they're more tolerant to debris. Dirt or whatever makes it's way into the bearing will enbed itself instead of killing the crank. It's always a trade-off, kill the bearings or kill the crank.

Running a good rod that will have less deformation (egg shaping) under high power/high rpm actually decreases the jorunal bearing hardness requirements.

In my case I run bearings slightly wider than stock but barely any harder. You can do this is your rod width is quite a bit wider than the stock bearing width.

And let's not forget rod side clearance. It's extremely important for oil pressure, journal bearing life, and cylinder/piston lube. Too tight and you don't get enough oil to the cylinders and while pressure will be good, flow goes down and bearing temps go up. Too loose and oil pressure is too low and you end up with bearing to crank contact.

Again, oil type and weight is very important at this point.

 

I'm at .025"

 

Stock ignition under high boost/high cylinder pressures, you're probably right on at .027. You don't want misfires under full throttle and boost, very bad. It's much better to err on the small side.

 

Thanks for the input, guys! It's much appreciated.

Regarding the engine oil, the plan is to run Royal Purple Engine Break-In (mineral) oil combined with an RP filter during the break-in process. Once broken in, I'll still run the RP... something in the neighborhood of 10w30. I'm also running an extra quart (give or take) due to the oil cooler.

 

i dont know much about engine oil but after i saw TSX trans with RP in it for about 50k i will never use that stuff. ALL the synchros were worn to shit! the owner knows how to drive and had only been down the quarter about 5-6 times.

 

i called acl and spoke to a tech. they have nothing that would work for us. not even something from the j30 accords. they said i could send in samples but it would take several months to produce b/c they do their tech work in australia lol. then we need a minimum batch order of like 500 units. not gonna happen

my plugs are gapped at .020

im was planning on running redline 10w30

 

LOL Holy crap. 500?! Ouch. I was going to say that I have a hand full of scrap bearings here that I could just send them, but wow. They don't even have bearings for an MDX, huh? That's a bummer.

 

I've only got a minute but PLEASE reconsider running RP for an engine oil. I know many times oil threads are opinionated and subjective but one thing I've seen in high specific output engines 99% of the time is excessive wear when running hard and running RP. It will not provide adequate protection in your situation. I consider Mobil One EP oils an upgrade from RP.

I'm not trying to start an oil debate but I don't want to see all of your hard work down the drain in a year's time.

 

What are people using for air filters? My filter fits perfect but seems so small I think it must be restricting air flow. Mine is a k&n ru 2510.

 

I'm running a K&N RE-0870. 4" inlet, 9" long tapered.

 

Are you running a silicon elbow to connect the filter to the turbo? I have been looking at a 4 in 45 degree metal intake tube to get the filter under the fuse box where I can go with a bigger filter.

 

That's what I ran for many years. I've never seen any CFM ratings but when I went from ~500rwhp to the current 602, the filter became restrictive. Had to go with a 14" tapered cone. I don't know how much power you guys are making or plan to make but the 9" tapered with 4" inlet is basically the most widely used and will work for just about any setup. If you plan to surpass 500whp I would think about a larger filter.

The issue is that any restriction pre-turbo affects power much more than NA. It causes more exhaust back pressure, hotter charge air temps, and more lag. You want the turbo to think there is nothing in front of it.

 

Waaay too small. Ideally you want a solid 6" of straight shot to the compressor wheel but in your case it would be beneficial to add a large 45 and run the 9" filter. If you have any choice, just make the elbow come off the turbo for as far as possible before the bend.

 

I have been running the filter right on the turbo but am starting to worry about all the filter oil going into the turbo. I need to route the filter under the fuse box to go any bigger.

 

The filter oil is a non issue. Only an issue in MAF equipped cars. FWIW, my car had the PCV right before the turbo. In stock form the compressor wheel was always oily, a lot more than you would ever get from the filter. It's not ideal of course but it's not something to worry about.

 

That's what I have. I took a 45 and cut it almost in half (about 22 deg) to get under the charge pipe and the under hood fuse box. Had to remove the bottom of the box to make it fit.

I made the run as long as I could and the end of the filter is only 2-3 inches from the firewall. It's a real bitch to get in and out.

I'm told with the ECU that I'll have a tune in the 400whp range. Rodney is working on getting more but it will require modified rdx injectors. At 400hp, he said the injector duty cycle was around 75%. Not sure if I want to get into the realm of building internals and probably will stay below 500whp.

 

Nice setup! If you are getting the new ECU, it would be beneficial to get some good aftermarket injectors, not modified stock injectors. You can end up with a blown engine if something goes wrong. There are some nice 60lb injectors that are cheap, idle like stock and will supply enough fuel to give you room to grow in the future if you decide to. It's always good to have some serious overkill in the fuel system department as long as you have an ECU that can control the injectors properly at idle. One of our GNs have 180lb injectors lol.

 

No kidding? Wow. Good to know. Is there anything better than M1 EP, in your opinion? I've got no problem ordering it if it's not in stock. I'd rather have the protection than the convenience of being able to pick up a quart whenever I need to.

Also, as far as the filter goes, I'm running the V2 turbo piping. I believe that Rodney said that I'll have to run an HKS SMF filter. I need to double-check with him though. There seems to be very little room to put a filter on the turbo with this setup.

 

 

We're all running Redline per Matt's suggestion.

With regard to the air filter, I thought the same thing about the V1 configuration. But after looking at things for what seemed like 100hrs, I was able to work out an alternative. My wife would come out in the garage and ask me what I was staring at.

 

Redline it is.

Hahahaha. Sadly, I know exactly what you're talking about.

I'll have to snap some pics this weekend and send them your way. I just don't see a way around putting a filter on this type of setup.

 

I sound like a Redline salesman but nothing else matches the HTHS vs viscosity, the add pack, the ester base oil, etc. Whether it's lack of wear or a complete lack of deposits in the piston ring land area, the teardowns on Redline have been amazing. Being a full ester group V oil it will take the heat and anything the turbo can throw at it with ease. It won't break down like other oils under hard use so you can use a normal length OCI if you choose to assuming fuel dilution is under control.
Eliminating restriction pre-turbo is VERY important. Better spool, cooler charge temps (compressor outlet temps), and slightly less exhaust back pressure. You want the inlet tract to be invisible to the turbo.

If the filter is restricting things, the turbo will still make the same boost up to a point. However, the pressure ratio is now greater so it's the same thing as turning the boost up but without the benefits. The turbo is working harder to provide the same boost level so it's raising outlet temps and slightly increasing exhaust backpressure since more exhaust will be going through the turbine instead of being bypassed through the wastegate. Of course, a restriction on this side of the turbo hurts spool too. How noticeable depends on how large the restriction was in the first place.

If you can't get the filter area needed, you'll have to go with one of the ultra high flowing medias that will basically keep out boulders and small animals lol.