Souljah

ok....

djbonsu

iTrader: (3)

yea, maybe better for your engine but maintenance costs will kill the value of it compared to the cheaper supercharger.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Here we go again...

Guys, AGAIN... Noone knows how a turbo'd TL is gonna hold up maintenence/reliability wise. The turbo GB thread, which is really cool, can't find 6 potential buyers to complete the buy. Right now, one guy, with amazing talent, has built a kit for his testing purposes and appears to be having success. Noone knows the long term or "riden hard" impact of this kit yet.
I don't care what ya say either guys, bolting the turbo on and getting 420 HP is giong to break stuff... Rather it be external: trans, mounts, axles, or internal: rings, rods, etc.

The CTSC leaves less than desirable tuning, but is proven safe. If you mod around the CTSC tuning (further exhaust mods-) and ride it hard, something will give eventually, that's also proven.

Again, debating what is better is not a debate. There is no proven turbo kit yet, only a prototype.

RonJonTL757

Well said AGAIN lol. This thread does not need to be turned into a SC vs Turbo shit storm. Im going to be depending heavily on this thread next month for my install. Thanks

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^kennedy^^^ no one is asking u to run ur turbo at full boost dude !!!

i know u have a CTSC and good knowledge about stuff....but i rather spend a little more and get it finely tuned....dont wanna get things messy in a already ready to explode TL engine !!!

i think the turbo at 6-7 psi made around 350-350...and u can push ur car as hard as u want....later when ur ready for more u can bump it up to 8psi or 12psi which they are currently testing ON A TL !!!

CTSC was not tested on a TL....i think since a year that turbo thread has been open and couple people are running a turbo and see where what fails !!!

And talking about cost....the reason why the cost of the turbo is almost double 3.5-4G compared to almost 7-8G is because of what u get along with it:

Intercooler/upgraded clutch/aem fic or some like that/ all custom piping.....

so if you go to see, you do get a lot for ur $....

i think beyond this point its a personal opinion....if you know what ur doing, pretty good tech know how.....then go for boost....else just do bolt ons and find ur way home !!!

handsom-hustla

iTrader: (3)

^^ im with you on that one. now when pple ask for info on the s/c everyone is quick to come out with the why not go turbo and the whole reliable/unreliable/complete/incomplete etc..If this is a s/c thread lets keep it one pple.. I too have a s/c to install once the weather gets nice and am absorbing as much info as i can. keep any use full info coming guys. thanks..

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Well I agree with all that... and I stated this earlier.
The value of the turbo kit is there too, considering what you get (although if I got 30K TL and approaching $8K in engine mods, there are MUCH better options).
I'm just stating that it's unproven, and folks running around saying it's better that the CTSC is stupid, becasue right now it's only a prototype.

The CTSC is WELL tested on the TL through SALES (in the thousands according to Nate at Comptech), and on the forum. It's low boost for a reason (engine conservation, likely due to tuning challenges), but it is tried an true. Could it be better? sure, not the discussion.

SC or Turbo is along standing internet debate. Not the point here either.

Either way, I look forward to seeing the GB buyer's install progress and "field testing"... I'll try not to be the first to say I told ya so... But power costs. and 350+ SC or turbo'd will start breaking things... It's just the way it is.

Souljah

Besides Kennedy, is anyone else running stock cats with S/C?

I am really considering CT S/C, just would like more input on the Stock Cats/PCD/ProCats<-- Does anyone make ProCats anymore?
I/ve read the E-Shift was a disaster with S/C due to ULEV and LEV. They were deteriorating?

Xiomaro

iTrader: (5)

welll, see i'd have to disagree with this SC more reliable and better power nonsense, and no i'm not saying this because i have a turbo.

I spent the last year and a half studying and researching the differences between the two setups and trying to make a solid decision on what i wanted to do.

The problem with a SC is that it eats up more power than it should be putting back down. The other thing is that contrary to most peoples assumptions the true efficiency of the SC is only met right at redline. The SC has a gradual build of boost as apposed to a hit like the turbo will give (if you know how to drive a turbo right).

I also find that through working around ppl who have turbo drag cars and some of the fastest street cars, the turbo setup is much more efficient and safe if you aren't stupid with it. The problem is that most ppl don't understand the limits of a car, they think it can do anything no matter what they do to it. guess what, these are not drag cars... if you try and make it one with stock bottom... u lose

And don't forget guys, you can always detune the hell out of the turbo setup if you are that worried. run it at 3 or 4lbs boost if u want. you'll still make about 330whp

BostonSilverTypeS

maybe it's been done and posted but I haven't found it. All I hear is UA6 3.2l TL's being supercharged...Has anyone done a supercharger kit for the UA7 3.5l Type-S motors...I know they don't sell a kit for the Type-S, but I'm wondering if someone has used the CT-E kit on a Type-S with success obviously, If not then don't even bother posting.....

djbonsu

iTrader: (3)

^^^there is a 20+ page thread on this subject which includes the owner supercharging his type-s.....SEARCH is ur friend

BostonSilverTypeS

^^^ thanks i'll have to check it out later...

Souljah

And if passing emissions is an issue/concern...?

ussi

iTrader: (1)

It's doable but it never took off. Here's the thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ercharger+type but it's almost tl;dr, there's a lot of thread crapping, but basically it can be done, it's just a matter of if you want to do it. Kinda underpowered for a 3.5 if you ask me though...

BostonSilverTypeS

Thanks alot, yea I mean im not looking for nothing crazy as far as power numbers, just looking to take it to the max stock internal wise, which I think under 330whp would be something the motor would handle, but like I said still in the searching and studying part as I also have a crappy Automatic due to family reasons lol(damn wife)...But my options are limited but if need be I might go nitrous way again nothing crazy 50-75shot ballpark, which i been talking with exelerate about....but thanks again for the thread link as I was having trouble finding it

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Then disagree, you're arguing a different point.

I'm not entering the which is better, SC ot Turbo, "in general" debate as stated above. Both have thier benefits and drawbacks, assuming either are properly setup. Off the top of my head: Nissan, GM, Toyota etc, all have SC OEM cars that are properly setup for them. VW, Mitsu, GM also have OEM turbo cars. The FI path begins with engine internals and is built outward, not bolted on.

Most kid draggers like turbos because they of kit availability, simplicity, and ease of "boosting" through chip control. I got 40 free HP out of my VW through a $200 chip mod. Turbo surge was the only risk, and I blew a turbo once.
SCers get thier boost mod power through new pulleys and tuning, a bit more difficult to implement.

I digress...

My point is, and always has been, that the turbo kit for the TL is completely untested, and merely a simple promising prototype. People already barreling on here saying SC is passe are offering risky advice. The CTSC is tried and true, even with the drawbacks it offers. Please also remember, the CTSC's drawback is the tuning. The issue for the last 3 years has been getting proper tuning matched to the SC (see 04accordV6). Now that we seem to be emerging into a technical development period where the "tuning challenges" have been overcome, no doubt someone will soon have a viable tuning solution to smooth out and increase the the CTSC power delivery. I'm going to explore that with NVAAV6 this summer.
Beyond that, more SC power is not attainable... the CTSC m62 can't move enough air effeciently. With the tuning cracked though, an M90 could likely be swapped very easily, and your power ratio will increase.

My point is this... The CTSC is great, but has drawbacks, based on the tuning capability of 2005. It appears the community has negotiated strong piggyback tuning techniques (which have encumbered any other FI/turbo development BTW), and now tuning options are emerging, as is a new FI/turbo option. Getting the CTSC with a proper tune is even better. "Safety" is a factor of tuning and power.

The Turbo needs a year in my mind, with 10-20 test cars, drag time, and 20K miles on all of them before anyone should consider it... and like I said, throw over 350 whp on these cars is going to break something... So nothing is safe, SC or turbo when you start pushing this envelope.

Will I go Turbo? Nope. I got enough tied up in the SC and add ons already, and I can't keep the torque steer under control. When I get ready to do another $8K mod to this beast, the TL is gone and I'm going to an M3. Daddy's earned it.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Came an went...
My assessment of that thread:
- Bolt on CTSC kit, not enough charge for the displacement, "but we know it fits" LOL.
- Poor tuning, I never got clear definition of what they did, I think they just tweaked the injection map, dumping more fuel.
- Poor results... Whaddaya expect.

The kit's not made for it, waste of money. You need a bigger blower, likely bigger injectors, and a proper tune.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

I'm actually running TL-S cats which are bit more free flowing. Ideally, PCD's with a good third cat is what you'd want, but I won't do that till I can get a proper tuneout. These freeflow exhausts I think run the engine lean and cause problems, and the CTSC tuning isn't setup for it.

Souljah

Does anyone know where I can get TL-S cats and approx how much?
Also, does anyone else agree with TL-S vs my stock cats?
I still want to pass emissions, therefore PCD is practically out of the question.

Xiomaro

iTrader: (5)

Ok first off i didn't need a history of the problems that most ppl are aware of. Second the reliability issue has been the topic on this thread for a little while now. you yourself in this quoted post are talking about the reliability...

As far as the superchargers time being tested, it's not really that great either. there are maybe, MAYBE, 20 ppl on this forum with an SC TL, and it always come back to the same thing like what ussi said, underpowered. So now that there's a new option you won't even give it a shot or a chance to develope and just shoot it down and try to sway as many ppl with you because u have so much tied up in the SC.

And i know you think i'm reiterating what you said, but you can't just omit a new option (which testing has been going on for almost a year now and has two working prototypes)

It sounds to me like you just have no faith in these cars if you would just go get a bmw...

whatever, i don't want to fight, i'm just saying don't be so quick to judge

Souljah

TL-S Cats anyone? Any help? Link?

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Sorry for the history lesson. My point is relevant considering the SC issues of the passed, and the tuning issues, are likely going to work themselves out soon. When that happens, will the CTSC still not be up to par? 04accordV6 has a properly tuned setup and is breaking everything... axles, mounts, lsd's, trans... and that's with 320 HP. Hold that thought.

Again, you've misinterpreted my point. My statements about reliability are centered around almost doubling the J32's power with a bolt on, and that's a reliability challenge within itself.
I think the CTSC is very reliable, and pushes the limit of stock engine reliability... I wouldn't have bolted it on if I thought differently. Underpowered? I think it's more than I need. Could it do more, perhaps... Tuning being the likely holdback, maybe a few more lbs of boost without the paddles overheating the air...

I think there's more than 20 SC's here (or historically)...and most rave over it. Why wouldn't they though, 60+ HP and driveway bolt on easy. No matter the surge and tuning bitchin, it is an exceptionally well designed kit, and you'll be hard pressed to find a kit as seamless integrated.

I can recall 3 or 4 blown SC motors in 3-4 years. I've seen more blown motors here NOT SC than SC, people over revving/floating valves etc. That's a bad metric considering the ratio, but it is a data point.
Secondarily, < 20 SC here are not relevant data, as only a small percentage of TL or SC owners are AZ forum nerds.
Comptech Engineering is a proffessional engineering shop with numerous Honda offerings. The kit was tested extensively before it went to market, and again, sales are in the thousands (according to Nate)... It was not put on the market with 2 prototypes on the road.

I'm not being quick to judge or "not let this develop", I'm observing with gaurded optimism... but apparently you are quick to judge, and have deterined being a test mule is within your budget... and that's great for you.
I hope your turbo works out for you.
I'm refuting folks, like yourself, again, justifying thier investment in thier turbo becasue they're so excited for it, and giving bad advice on the reliability of an untested product over a product thats exceptionally tested from the vendor and the user community.

That said, two working prototypes with driveby videos is not something I'm ready to plunk $6-8K down on, and certainly does not indicate product maturity. I'm not bashing it either. I genuinely hope it comes around...

No faith...? nope. Closest thing we've had to FI beyond the CTSC is the TL-S SC thread. Link above, that panned out well...
Hondata panned out well...
This is an underserved community... Not much has come through in 4 years reagrding these kinds of projects.
This one is great, but may be a bit over ambitious considering the the power delivered.

My car is great, and I'm satisfied with over 300 whp. 400HP in FWD is flat out scary dangerous (mine is now), and I hope those that are buying this kit are buying some performance driving training with it, else I fear the road. Maybe I'll get that BMW someday, till then, I'll be happy.

Good luck with your turbo... No boohooing here when you blow sumthin up though.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

ebay
black market
car-part.com

I'm running TLS cats with 3rd cat delete and have no problems with emissions...

Xiomaro

iTrader: (5)

well, i definitely feel sorry for you on some level. without being adventurous and being a "test mule" nothing would ever get done. so i'd rather be part of something kind of historical to this series of car and not be like everyone else.
At 3.4lbs boost we were making 330whp, and thats not even that much psi., so i don't see that as being too dangerous, And i just found out we made 435whp 406tq at 6.4lbs of boost.

O and yet hondata is NOW going to be working on the 07 Type S ECU (mine) since they caught wind of the success with the turbo kits...

But whatever man, keep up whatever it is you're doing

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Great. Hondata worked with the TL community due to the success of the CTSC too, for about a year, realized the market, and quit... Maybe you'll be more successful. 435 is ridiculous, I believe it, and know there's no way it will last. I'm looking forward to those field tests and dyno's.

Don't feel sorry for me bud, there's not a guy on this forum more confident in his own abilities and judgement, and I been working on a TL since bfore you could drink (I couldn't resist that one).
Years of experience... and being that test mule... and the $$$ spent to be the first, and the shit that it breaks, and the hours fixing stuff, and late nights under the car, the sending shit back for replacement, the fight with the vendors, the arguing on the phone over "incorrectly installed, yada yada"... all has taught me well.

You can look down your nose at my apprehension, I'm OK with that.

I feel sorry for you actually... embarking down the same road, knowing the PITA that's headed your way. Reading your other posts, I've not gotten the sense your that mechanically inclined, either. I hope I'm wrong or you, sir, are going to have great time test muling. Trial by fire for you...

I'll leave the R&D to guys like you and others... What I am happy about in all of this is this new power envelope will start breaking all the things next in the chain, and thus drive the community to start bullet proofing. The tuning aspects are interesting as well, for above stated reasons.

I will keep doin what I'm doing on tried and true hardware...
Be safe out there tough guy.

anyone have any other SC questions since there is an unreadable 74 page turbo thread of mindless banter already running>

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

just FYI, im making 348whp/300tq @ 3-3.5psi pretty much across the board with my SC

i dont think kennedy is turning this into a TC vs SC thing, (if you are implying that). he's just bringing up the fact that this isnt exactly a proven reliable kit, such as the comptech kit (even with all its drawbacks) and until more than one of these turbo kits are installed with at least 20-25k hard driven miles, the reliablilty factor cannot be answered. i totally agree with him

for me, i am completely happy with my setup and my quest for more hp has offiicially ended. why? cause lets face it, were not exactly driving cars that were designed from the factory to take this kind of power and abuse. like kennedy said, you will break stuff eventually, thats a given. ive been through it enough to know this. transmissions, axles, mounts and anything else connected with the drivetrain, you name it, ive broken it. i couldnt fathom what traction would be like over 350hp, let alone 400hp. besides breaking parts, traction was another one of my main concerns for additional power, since 1st and 2nd gears are rendered useless already. whats the sense of having all this power under your foot, if you cant get it to the ground? and even if you did find a way, guess what? your going to break more parts and faster too. ive yet to see any traction from a dig on any of the turbo TL vids of course their holding up ok (for now)

you have to know the limits of your car and from 3 1/2 years of being boosted, ive found this out. oh, and lets not forget about the REALLY BAD torque steer too. ive had a few close calls veering into a car next to me on more than a few occasions and thats with a mere 300tq

in the end, the SC kit works great with the right supporting cast, like injectors, meth kit, fi/c and a good tune. what i really like about the comptech kit, you can drive anywhere, all the time, without seeing any boost whatsoever, which is next to impossible to do with a turbo. dont get me wrong, when it comes to making hp, i will agree turbo > SC any day of the week. more potential yes, more reliable? i have to disagree...(regarding our cars only of course) yes, a turbo is powered by wasted energy, BUT the SC with its built in bypass valve and linear powerband is MUCH easier on the internals IMO, especially on a 11:1 compression motor thats not specifically built for boost. like you mentioned, a turbo has some pretty mean torque in the low rpm's and hits pretty hard when it kicks in, which a high compression motor does not like. the SC on the otherhand, is much more gentle as it eased into boost.. another turnoff is theres alot more components associated with the turbo kit, which is another reason why i passed on the kit.

anyways, good luck with the turbo kit. your definetly going to have fun! cause a TL with a turbo is truely PRICELESS! just remember that exclusivenss comes with heartaches and be well prepared for future misfortunes, cause with this newfound power, it will be inevitable

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

oh and regarding the HONDATA for the newer style ecu's, ill believe it when i see it.

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

I just hope you turbo guys know something will break. Our cars are not made for boost, s/c or TURBO. If the S/C came tuned it would be just as reliable as the TURBO kit if not more. BUT neither of them are going to be "reliable". Besides, a turbo kit is around 10k and S/C around ~6 with proper tune and such, I would rather give paul my ~5k and have a fully built RELIABLE 3.6 motor pushing around 306 whp, which CAN handle I believe he said something around 8 psi. Pushing that much HP on a front wheel drive car is scary and wreck-less, IMO.

BostonSilverTypeS

yo are you looking for just the precats from a TL-S or the third cat as well...either way I have all three and won't really be needing it, it has 54k miles on them so PM me and we can possibly work something out..........

Ok all this about FWD is scary at 400hp and yada yada...well wheter it be FWD,RWD,AWD..at 400hp if you don't know what you are doing is scary period(scary for some/but hell of a ride for others)....It all comes back down to driver skill and how well you know your car whether it be FWD,RWD,AWD......Just my in this

Xiomaro

iTrader: (5)

no problem guys, it's just a different ball field, but its sad that i start with just some simple imput and get that much flack from some one so much older than me...

ken,
You can say whatever you want about me, but i've been building engines since i was 8 with my family, and on the side with some of the best shops in palm beach. I highly doubt you've been into the extensive in and out of the engine and its components like these other guys have, but i'm sure you know everything about it already.

I know the consequences of being greedy with boost. i don't intend on just turing it up at my leisure cuz i'm not stupid. You're opinion is yours for which FI setup you want, and you will obviously stick with a SC since you paid for it, duh.

we could go in circles about this for all of time, but if you're just going to pull the i'm older card then i could care less to talk, have a good one...

handsom-hustla

iTrader: (3)

This thread is going to turn out to be useless if we keep debating our personsal prefrences on turbo v.s. s/c. The thread was off to a good start, but is falling apart fast. Were better off inputting informative info on the s/c because this is a s/c thread. It may not be a new topic on here but im sure there is still more info to be learned and discussed on the s/c. Just because the turbo is coming out doesnt mean the s/c is dead. keep any uselful info coming people.

RonJonTL757

^ Tru dat. Kennedy and Xiomaro lets

Anyone know or has 2 RSX-S injectors lying around. I have 4 I need 2 more

Souljah

I agree... this thread is ABOUT SUPERCHARGING.

Souljah

Only interested in the two primary. You have been PM'd.

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

RONjon, you do not need the injectors, what you need is a tune and meth.
Souljah, go deletes, its useless going to TL-S, if your going s/c.

ussi

iTrader: (1)

I have these in my car...i guess I should swap them out, don't really need em anymore.

RonJonTL757

I hear ya bro but Im just collecting pieces to the pie but im not going to install them initially. Yes meth and the AEM F/ic is on the list as well


USSI-- PM me if you wanna get rid of 2, but i doubt it since its easier to sell 6 instead of 4 but they will sell.

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

haha, your in the same boat i was. i bought a set of 4 from clU b r s x , then i got the other 2 at a local junkyard

check around, they shouldnt be more than 20-25bucks a pop.

actually yes he does. even though the stock 270cc injectors may work, they are maxed out at near 100% duty cycle. the rsx-s 310cc injectors are PERFECT to use with the stock boost pulley.

so lets re-cap. in order to make the comptech kit COMPLETE, heres a list of what you need to add,

1. 310cc rsx-s injectors
2. meth injection kit
3. AEM fi/c
4. AEM extension harness (send to paul to have wired)
5. A GOOD TUNE!!

this combo done right, along with the right supporting mods such as PCD's (an absolute must IMO if your SC'd), jpipe, freeflowing exhaust, etc,.. will give you a safe and reliable 350whp/300tq on 3-4psi of boost.



souljah, i would seriously consider the PCD's over any type of stock or AM cat. they are just to close to the head to survive the extra heat thats generated from the SC. ive seen this many times on the dyno and on the streets. all they will do is overheat and cause a cork in the system, which will cause a nasty boost spike and loss in power. i know your worried about emmisionis, but deal with it when the time comes and switch out to your stock cats. trust me on this....

RonJonTL757

Ok i think I have asked this question 3 times now and still no answer...but which AEM f\ic do we get?? I see a bunch on ebay but not sure which model

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

1910