Supercharging the TL
04-10-2013, 09:05 PM
#841
A J35A8 EG civic is in
I am not s/c'ed but from research...
-you must upgrade your plugs (two step colder) - i.e. NGK Iridiums BKR8EIX
-yes, but don't have to crush your FPR if you upgrade your injectors and/or upgrade fuel pump.
i would consider installing the tranny cooler before since the s/c will be in the way.
btw - who is doing the install and tuning your flashpro?
Goodluck, sounds like a fun build and you are well on your way with all the necessary material.
here is a more recent s/c build with all your answers:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/2012-supercharger-jr-ecu-build-841336/
-you must upgrade your plugs (two step colder) - i.e. NGK Iridiums BKR8EIX
-yes, but don't have to crush your FPR if you upgrade your injectors and/or upgrade fuel pump.
i would consider installing the tranny cooler before since the s/c will be in the way.
btw - who is doing the install and tuning your flashpro?
Goodluck, sounds like a fun build and you are well on your way with all the necessary material.
here is a more recent s/c build with all your answers:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/2012-supercharger-jr-ecu-build-841336/
Sup bro! Enjoy it, while you can before temps get very hot outside. I will say it based installing the kit (I had to remove the kit and then reinstall it due to the warranty claim), it's a pretty straight forward install. Under hood temps are going to be pretty hot and I mean hot. Highly suggest you install a CAI and DON'T CONNECT the coolant lines back to the TB.
If your pushing more air you need more fuel, by crushing the regulator your going to have 10 PSI more fuel. If your installing this kit, you will need to AT LEAST crush the regulator. It won't hurt anything when you do injector upgrades. If you looking for long term you need to monitor knock and at least venture to meth kit. You will need to figure out what to do with the temps under the hood. That entire engine bay will be hot, the more you whine the hotter it gets.
I wouldn't use the old plugs unless they have very low miles. Usually from what I've been told they last approx 25K. I could be wrong. Exhaust mods are usually recommended to free up the flow. I have the ATLP J-pipe and comptech catback didn't feel the need to upgrade to precat deletes.
Keep in mind, like I said a million times, this was built and tested on a STOCK TL. Yes, the management system isn't the best but luckily now 07-08 have the flash pro (I believe the 06 as well) which will be better than the ACM. There are 2 versions to the ACM. I have the updated version that comptech did their very best to correct the surge. I will say over the winter season I surged 2-5x in the month and it being extremely minor. Now with temps rising, I may surge 2x every drive but still fairly minor.
The best way to go about this in the long term of things is full exhaust work, meth kit, tune, injectors and some other form to keep that intake manifold cooler. Like I said, this kit was put and tested for a STOCK CAR. Anything more than what you have is only a plus. Best of luck, enjoy it!
If your pushing more air you need more fuel, by crushing the regulator your going to have 10 PSI more fuel. If your installing this kit, you will need to AT LEAST crush the regulator. It won't hurt anything when you do injector upgrades. If you looking for long term you need to monitor knock and at least venture to meth kit. You will need to figure out what to do with the temps under the hood. That entire engine bay will be hot, the more you whine the hotter it gets.
I wouldn't use the old plugs unless they have very low miles. Usually from what I've been told they last approx 25K. I could be wrong. Exhaust mods are usually recommended to free up the flow. I have the ATLP J-pipe and comptech catback didn't feel the need to upgrade to precat deletes.
Keep in mind, like I said a million times, this was built and tested on a STOCK TL. Yes, the management system isn't the best but luckily now 07-08 have the flash pro (I believe the 06 as well) which will be better than the ACM. There are 2 versions to the ACM. I have the updated version that comptech did their very best to correct the surge. I will say over the winter season I surged 2-5x in the month and it being extremely minor. Now with temps rising, I may surge 2x every drive but still fairly minor.
The best way to go about this in the long term of things is full exhaust work, meth kit, tune, injectors and some other form to keep that intake manifold cooler. Like I said, this kit was put and tested for a STOCK CAR. Anything more than what you have is only a plus. Best of luck, enjoy it!
Do you have your knock sensor wire connected to the ACM? I read that caused it to surge a lot. TB coolant lines are bypassed, and I am going to custom make a CAI. I was also looking in to "the ultimate cooling mod" to help the high temps out. I have a beater car so I'm not really worried about it too much as I won't have to be driving it daily in the heat. I already have the freest flowing exhaust possible so that's taken care of, and spark plugs are a definite since mine probably have close to 70k on them.
That is quite a bit of surge. Hopefully I won't have that with the Flashpro, which by the way came in the mail yesterday
. Thank you for all the info!Thanks!
If your using FlashPro you dont have to Crush the FPR because you can control fuel trims with FlashPro and it will be adjusted while getting tuned. Just DONT boost past 0lbs while S/C'd and NOT tuned or Zip Tie the bypass valve open so boost will bleed out until you get it tuned Also with the FlashPro you dont have to run Colder Spark Plugs cause you can adjust timing to compensate for boosting I would recomend replacing the plugs with new ones and just go with factory spec. Pretty sure there will be other people that will say different then what i suggested but this info is from Doug the owner of Hondata himself. Good Luck!
Good Luck!Thanks!
04-11-2013, 12:29 AM
#842
Tuning I'm not sure of yet, but I will be installing it myself, with the help of friends at my friend's shop. Guess I will look in to tranny cooler installation and see. Thanks for the info! I can't wait, I've been dying to do this and finally am able to. I just want to make sure I don't wreck anything
I'm trying to keep it on the DL for now til Honda Day :P. Hopefully I can get this install done in time, I'm always busy with school
Do you have your knock sensor wire connected to the ACM? I read that caused it to surge a lot. TB coolant lines are bypassed, and I am going to custom make a CAI. I was also looking in to "the ultimate cooling mod" to help the high temps out. I have a beater car so I'm not really worried about it too much as I won't have to be driving it daily in the heat. I already have the freest flowing exhaust possible so that's taken care of, and spark plugs are a definite since mine probably have close to 70k on them.
That is quite a bit of surge. Hopefully I won't have that with the Flashpro, which by the way came in the mail yesterday. Thank you for all the info!
Thanks!
Colder plugs will help to prevent detonation so I will go with those since I need new plugs anyway. Thank you on the information about the FPR. I was thinking the same which is what made me ask. Doesn't it come with a SC map? I was thinking of running that until May when the temps get hotter and I can get my RDX injectors in. So I can get them tuned with it.
Thanks!
I'm trying to keep it on the DL for now til Honda Day :P. Hopefully I can get this install done in time, I'm always busy with school
Do you have your knock sensor wire connected to the ACM? I read that caused it to surge a lot. TB coolant lines are bypassed, and I am going to custom make a CAI. I was also looking in to "the ultimate cooling mod" to help the high temps out. I have a beater car so I'm not really worried about it too much as I won't have to be driving it daily in the heat. I already have the freest flowing exhaust possible so that's taken care of, and spark plugs are a definite since mine probably have close to 70k on them.
That is quite a bit of surge. Hopefully I won't have that with the Flashpro, which by the way came in the mail yesterday
. Thank you for all the info!Thanks!
Colder plugs will help to prevent detonation so I will go with those since I need new plugs anyway. Thank you on the information about the FPR. I was thinking the same which is what made me ask. Doesn't it come with a SC map? I was thinking of running that until May when the temps get hotter and I can get my RDX injectors in. So I can get them tuned with it.
Thanks!
04-11-2013, 07:44 AM
#843
A J35A8 EG civic is in
How many times I tell you...lol. Never run a car without a tune. Denotation isn't mainly coming from spark plugs...its octane to burn up the fuel..never run anything but premium. Main reason for meth..but meth to me isn't needed with 5-6 pounds of boost..its nothing. Run 92/93 always and you will be fine. Monitoring knock will drive you crazy, besides you drive low and slow anyway lol. SC will be just for looks..might as well just place it in your engine bay for hondaday.
My tires won't be like before lol, so I will be putting the SC to some use! It's for looks, sound, and those WOT runs that I love
. It will be up and running for this weekend. I just want to make sure it's running right which is why I posted this for advice.
04-11-2013, 08:13 AM
#844
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
Sunny, In my kit when It was purchased new from the last owner (who never installed it) it came with the UPDATED Wiring diagram for the ACM. When I purchased a newer ACM from a member here he had the OLD Wiring Diagram. Like I was telling CBP08TL, You cut one wire going to the ECU. With that one wire cut it will look like this ---- (GAP) -----. For the new diagram you take 2 wires from the ACM and tap them into that cut wire. One wire will tap into one end of the cut wire and another ACM wire taps into the other end of the cut wire. Your making 2 taps on One wire with 2 ACM wires.
On the OLD diagram it required you tap 4 wires, which only one of them is still the same with the new one. Comptech changed what wires to tap and updated the ACM. I spoke to Nate about this for over an hour. He verified the ACM I have is the updated one.
Now I will tell you this. I CAN ONLY COMPARE from 2004 TL MT w/ 2006 CT SC setup only mod being comptech exhaust.
VS
My setup 2004 TL MT w/2012 CT SC setup mods being J-pipe, CAI, TB Bypass, comptech exhaust, Light weight pulley, with new ACM.
I drove his car, It has such a terrible surge like if the car had a dead misfire. It bucked hard and he did nothing to help with exhaust flow or heat control under the hood. This being said, compared to my setup, the surge is a very minor hiccup. It feel like a dead spot on the TPS. IF your in 6th gear going up a slight incline you will surge a bit. The car is trying to get that correct air/fuel and switching from ECU to ACM. It's like having a small twitch in your hand, vs his car which felt like a jolt. I have an 04, the flash pro is worthless for me.
To be honest, I rarely drive my car hard. I get on it for a whole gear and let off. I'll hit it in 2nd or 3rd gear till maybe 6K and then drive it normal for the rest of the time. Even out of boost and driving the car with cruise control on, the blower will get hot. If you pop the hood open and it's on the safety latch it helps bring down temps quickly. I already routed custom air flow tubes from the front bumper to the engine bay, it didn't do much. I also use 93 from Shell, it would be nice if we still had 94 available.
On the OLD diagram it required you tap 4 wires, which only one of them is still the same with the new one. Comptech changed what wires to tap and updated the ACM. I spoke to Nate about this for over an hour. He verified the ACM I have is the updated one.
Now I will tell you this. I CAN ONLY COMPARE from 2004 TL MT w/ 2006 CT SC setup only mod being comptech exhaust.
VS
My setup 2004 TL MT w/2012 CT SC setup mods being J-pipe, CAI, TB Bypass, comptech exhaust, Light weight pulley, with new ACM.
I drove his car, It has such a terrible surge like if the car had a dead misfire. It bucked hard and he did nothing to help with exhaust flow or heat control under the hood. This being said, compared to my setup, the surge is a very minor hiccup. It feel like a dead spot on the TPS. IF your in 6th gear going up a slight incline you will surge a bit. The car is trying to get that correct air/fuel and switching from ECU to ACM. It's like having a small twitch in your hand, vs his car which felt like a jolt. I have an 04, the flash pro is worthless for me.
To be honest, I rarely drive my car hard. I get on it for a whole gear and let off. I'll hit it in 2nd or 3rd gear till maybe 6K and then drive it normal for the rest of the time. Even out of boost and driving the car with cruise control on, the blower will get hot. If you pop the hood open and it's on the safety latch it helps bring down temps quickly. I already routed custom air flow tubes from the front bumper to the engine bay, it didn't do much. I also use 93 from Shell, it would be nice if we still had 94 available.
04-11-2013, 10:00 AM
#845
Sunny, In my kit when It was purchased new from the last owner (who never installed it) it came with the UPDATED Wiring diagram for the ACM. When I purchased a newer ACM from a member here he had the OLD Wiring Diagram. Like I was telling CBP08TL, You cut one wire going to the ECU. With that one wire cut it will look like this ---- (GAP) -----. For the new diagram you take 2 wires from the ACM and tap them into that cut wire. One wire will tap into one end of the cut wire and another ACM wire taps into the other end of the cut wire. Your making 2 taps on One wire with 2 ACM wires.
On the OLD diagram it required you tap 4 wires, which only one of them is still the same with the new one. Comptech changed what wires to tap and updated the ACM. I spoke to Nate about this for over an hour. He verified the ACM I have is the updated one.
Now I will tell you this. I CAN ONLY COMPARE from 2004 TL MT w/ 2006 CT SC setup only mod being comptech exhaust.
VS
My setup 2004 TL MT w/2012 CT SC setup mods being J-pipe, CAI, TB Bypass, comptech exhaust, Light weight pulley, with new ACM.
I drove his car, It has such a terrible surge like if the car had a dead misfire. It bucked hard and he did nothing to help with exhaust flow or heat control under the hood. This being said, compared to my setup, the surge is a very minor hiccup. It feel like a dead spot on the TPS. IF your in 6th gear going up a slight incline you will surge a bit. The car is trying to get that correct air/fuel and switching from ECU to ACM. It's like having a small twitch in your hand, vs his car which felt like a jolt. I have an 04, the flash pro is worthless for me.
To be honest, I rarely drive my car hard. I get on it for a whole gear and let off. I'll hit it in 2nd or 3rd gear till maybe 6K and then drive it normal for the rest of the time. Even out of boost and driving the car with cruise control on, the blower will get hot. If you pop the hood open and it's on the safety latch it helps bring down temps quickly. I already routed custom air flow tubes from the front bumper to the engine bay, it didn't do much. I also use 93 from Shell, it would be nice if we still had 94 available.
On the OLD diagram it required you tap 4 wires, which only one of them is still the same with the new one. Comptech changed what wires to tap and updated the ACM. I spoke to Nate about this for over an hour. He verified the ACM I have is the updated one.
Now I will tell you this. I CAN ONLY COMPARE from 2004 TL MT w/ 2006 CT SC setup only mod being comptech exhaust.
VS
My setup 2004 TL MT w/2012 CT SC setup mods being J-pipe, CAI, TB Bypass, comptech exhaust, Light weight pulley, with new ACM.
I drove his car, It has such a terrible surge like if the car had a dead misfire. It bucked hard and he did nothing to help with exhaust flow or heat control under the hood. This being said, compared to my setup, the surge is a very minor hiccup. It feel like a dead spot on the TPS. IF your in 6th gear going up a slight incline you will surge a bit. The car is trying to get that correct air/fuel and switching from ECU to ACM. It's like having a small twitch in your hand, vs his car which felt like a jolt. I have an 04, the flash pro is worthless for me.
To be honest, I rarely drive my car hard. I get on it for a whole gear and let off. I'll hit it in 2nd or 3rd gear till maybe 6K and then drive it normal for the rest of the time. Even out of boost and driving the car with cruise control on, the blower will get hot. If you pop the hood open and it's on the safety latch it helps bring down temps quickly. I already routed custom air flow tubes from the front bumper to the engine bay, it didn't do much. I also use 93 from Shell, it would be nice if we still had 94 available.
) I would still have some surging when I switched to Flashpro it was all eliminated!
04-11-2013, 02:24 PM
#846
def intall a trans cooler!. also important to monitor trans temps so you can have an understanding on what it is going through. she heats up fast. (I have a oil temp guage with "jig" to mount right into the line for sale. lmk) also ask some of the more informed members but I think you should only go one step colder on spark plugs, not two. rdx injectors is the way to go. meth i would say def. knock monitor? not sure. u relocating the battery?
04-11-2013, 07:28 PM
#848
Team Owner
How many times I tell you...lol. Never run a car without a tune. Denotation isn't mainly coming from spark plugs...its octane to burn up the fuel..never run anything but premium. Main reason for meth..but meth to me isn't needed with 5-6 pounds of boost..its nothing. Run 92/93 always and you will be fine. Monitoring knock will drive you crazy, besides you drive low and slow anyway lol. SC will be just for looks..might as well just place it in your engine bay for hondaday.
Meth is not just octane, its cooling and its fuel.
Knock should always be monitored under boost. It's more important than AFR, more important than any other gauge.
04-11-2013, 08:26 PM
#849
Rdx will require sion tc iirc pig tails or splicing.. They are not direct pnp.knock should be monitored but under boost u will always knock. The time this was the main concern was with the acm, since tuning has progressed many just support the FI build.
Last edited by handsom-hustla; 04-11-2013 at 08:28 PM.
04-11-2013, 09:11 PM
#850
Team Owner
Nope. It should never knock, especially in boost. Knock should always be monitored no matter what. Your tune can be perfect but all it takes is for fuel pressure to drop, atmospheric conditions change, oil burning lowering the octane, etc. On a FI build knock monitoring is the number one priority. I would have a knock gauge before I would have oil pressure or AFR.
04-11-2013, 10:10 PM
#851
So I have heard you should allow to build any boost before getting a tune. But if you bought a used kit and will end up with exactly the same setup as previous owner what is the difference from driving without a tune (relying on previous fic tune) vs Comptech acm which is the same for everyone?
04-14-2013, 03:55 PM
#852
Alright Aziners.....pls help me out of a pinch here. Just finished installing the S/C on my car. And car now wont start. I tries but cant. I checked and it seems the fuel pump does not turn on. I unplugged the fuel pump and checked voltage and dont get anything when switch is turned to ON. I unmounted the pump again and powered it direct to the battery and it turns on. So it seems the fuel pump is not being told to turn on. I check to see if any plugs seem to be disconnected...no. I check to see if ground seemed to be an issue...grounds seem fine. Rechecked plugs on fuel tank assembly....connected. I disconnected the AEM FIC although it is only supposed to kit in during open loop right??...and put it back to just oem ecu (with battery unplugged of course). I checked the fuel pump fuse...still good.
Actually i just checked the fuel pump fuse and it powers on and off with the switch but the plug at the pump never gets power.
Any ideas??
Actually i just checked the fuel pump fuse and it powers on and off with the switch but the plug at the pump never gets power.
Any ideas??
Last edited by MAS; 04-14-2013 at 04:08 PM.
04-15-2013, 09:34 PM
#853
Alright Aziners.....pls help me out of a pinch here. Just finished installing the S/C on my car. And car now wont start. I tries but cant. I checked and it seems the fuel pump does not turn on. I unplugged the fuel pump and checked voltage and dont get anything when switch is turned to ON. I unmounted the pump again and powered it direct to the battery and it turns on. So it seems the fuel pump is not being told to turn on. I check to see if any plugs seem to be disconnected...no. I check to see if ground seemed to be an issue...grounds seem fine. Rechecked plugs on fuel tank assembly....connected. I disconnected the AEM FIC although it is only supposed to kit in during open loop right??...and put it back to just oem ecu (with battery unplugged of course). I checked the fuel pump fuse...still good.
Actually i just checked the fuel pump fuse and it powers on and off with the switch but the plug at the pump never gets power.
Actually i just checked the fuel pump fuse and it powers on and off with the switch but the plug at the pump never gets power.
Are you plugging in the FIC correctly? There are two plugs on the extension harness that can be reversed and cause the car not to start and pop up a error on the dash "check starter" it has happens to me before so double check your harness when plugging into the ECU.
04-21-2013, 07:18 PM
#854
So my S/C install is almost complete. Only pending items are: new meth nozzle to replace leaky one, cooling mod to release some heat, and better intake piping to improve flow over COmptech intake. Besides that everything seems good except i also have that delayed start issue since installing the S/C. I've been talking with a friend from Azine and we are looking into the FPR. I'm going to do a test when i get more time. I believe the only person on here with the S/C kit who did not crush the FPR is handsome-hustla. I wonder if the crushed FPR is what is causing it.
04-26-2013, 02:12 PM
#855
Nope. It should never knock, especially in boost. Knock should always be monitored no matter what. Your tune can be perfect but all it takes is for fuel pressure to drop, atmospheric conditions change, oil burning lowering the octane, etc. On a FI build knock monitoring is the number one priority. I would have a knock gauge before I would have oil pressure or AFR.
04-26-2013, 04:44 PM
#856
Suzuka Master
something that will pull timing when detected
04-26-2013, 04:51 PM
#857
Team Owner
Timing is not enough once it starts, the stock ECU will pull timing. The only way to stop it once it starts is to lift. Something loud usually works better than a visual such as an LED that lights up with knock.
04-26-2013, 07:06 PM
#859
Us turbo guys are using a knock sensor system called the knock box if I remember correctly. It hooks up to the stock knock sensor and uses a led to warn of knock. You could add a buzzer instead of the led if you want to use an audible warning. I am happy with the visual warning, it gives a more subtle reminder.
04-26-2013, 08:28 PM
#860
I didn't crush my fpr bc I had the rdx injectors, I too did and still have the lag in starting even after the blower has come off. Ill be Getting a new starter in the near future.
04-26-2013, 09:54 PM
#861
Team Owner
It sounds like you ran boost without monitoring knock or you allowed it to knock while monitoring. Either way I would be checking compression for a slow to start condition.
04-30-2013, 06:11 PM
#863
Well I had this delayed start issue as well after the S/C was installed. I was thinking FPR when I was experiencing it as well but the starting issue to me felt almost like there isn't enough fuel to ignite as there were even times when it would stumble as if almost catching but not quite. The only thing that seems to have fixed it so far for me is the Hondata ECU as now the car starts up normal.
01-06-2014, 08:59 AM
#865
KingKong_Dav
I will be supercharging my TL-S 5AT. i dont know what to expect. Im kind of shakey because there is no known TL-S Supercharged that had sucess. I will be relying on HONDATA FlashPRO. Im not worried about Fitment because it bolts on with a battery relocation mod. its the tuning im worried about. With the help of a few contacts I think it will be safe to be boosted. There was a couple of old threads with epic fails for the Type S supercharged but I hope I can flip this around with Hondata.
01-06-2014, 10:14 AM
#866
A J35A8 EG civic is in
I will be supercharging my TL-S 5AT. i dont know what to expect. Im kind of shakey because there is no known TL-S Supercharged that had sucess. I will be relying on HONDATA FlashPRO. Im not worried about Fitment because it bolts on with a battery relocation mod. its the tuning im worried about. With the help of a few contacts I think it will be safe to be boosted. There was a couple of old threads with epic fails for the Type S supercharged but I hope I can flip this around with Hondata.
I don't think tuning is an issue at all, it's just that the blower supplied with the kit is already undersized for the 3.2, which makes it worse on the 3.5.
01-06-2014, 04:03 PM
#870
Congrats on the buy!
RSX-S injectors are plug-n-play for my UA6.
Hondata will be your best friend (Vit is tuning mine, happy so far)
Meth will also be your friend (mine is working from the wiper system).
HBP....respect it, but do it.
Aftermarket CAI is a must to maximize whine :-)
Have Fun!!!
RSX-S injectors are plug-n-play for my UA6.
Hondata will be your best friend (Vit is tuning mine, happy so far)
Meth will also be your friend (mine is working from the wiper system).
HBP....respect it, but do it.
Aftermarket CAI is a must to maximize whine :-)
Have Fun!!!
01-06-2014, 07:58 PM
#872
no problem.....pm with any questions.
Btw, i have also heard/read many places you should eliminate the first cats because of the higher exhaust temps they might deteriorate faster and it could suck some loose chunks in, creating havoc. Besides who needs those damn cats anyways. :-) Just put in a Vibrant ultra quiet resonator and the rasp & excessive sound will be totally eliminated.
Btw, i have also heard/read many places you should eliminate the first cats because of the higher exhaust temps they might deteriorate faster and it could suck some loose chunks in, creating havoc. Besides who needs those damn cats anyways. :-) Just put in a Vibrant ultra quiet resonator and the rasp & excessive sound will be totally eliminated.
01-07-2014, 03:35 PM
#873
KingKong_Dav
i bought vtecmini's kit. practically new considering it only got 15k miles on it. everything was included the custom supercharger bracket to fit on the Type S transmission, the battery cables to the trunk, the battery box, CAI, P/S adpater, belt, hose, acm, all nuts and hardware, a fuel pump with a precrush fpr, crush tool, and boost and a/f gauges. it is 99% drop in ready just missing camshaft O ring and the comptech air intake system. i still have my flash pro and i think ill choose sean church from church auto to tune it
01-07-2014, 03:37 PM
#874
KingKong_Dav
no problem.....pm with any questions.
Btw, i have also heard/read many places you should eliminate the first cats because of the higher exhaust temps they might deteriorate faster and it could suck some loose chunks in, creating havoc. Besides who needs those damn cats anyways. :-) Just put in a Vibrant ultra quiet resonator and the rasp & excessive sound will be totally eliminated.
Btw, i have also heard/read many places you should eliminate the first cats because of the higher exhaust temps they might deteriorate faster and it could suck some loose chunks in, creating havoc. Besides who needs those damn cats anyways. :-) Just put in a Vibrant ultra quiet resonator and the rasp & excessive sound will be totally eliminated.
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