Group Buy for JnR ECU - Dyno's/Gains (12/23); Prices Posted (1/7)
04-24-2012, 09:23 AM
#1722
putting the AEM or LC-1 wideband in the engine bay is somewhat unknown now because of such high heat our engine bays have.. i have read horror stories of the cables being melted but it was from FI engines and nothing TL
reason you have to do it before any cats is because you can geta true reading of AFR.. if you do it after cats.. even high flow cats it wont give you a true reading.. it wont be incorrect but it wont give you what the true mixture of AFR is coming out of your manifold since the high flow cat will be editing the data/flow
if you can return the wideband then do so or purchase cat-deletes and then use the wideband...
just my two cents but check with the tuner first on options.. they will know more of what the dieband is capable of in the engine bay or after the high flow cat
reason you have to do it before any cats is because you can geta true reading of AFR.. if you do it after cats.. even high flow cats it wont give you a true reading.. it wont be incorrect but it wont give you what the true mixture of AFR is coming out of your manifold since the high flow cat will be editing the data/flow
if you can return the wideband then do so or purchase cat-deletes and then use the wideband...
just my two cents but check with the tuner first on options.. they will know more of what the dieband is capable of in the engine bay or after the high flow cat
So with the cats cleaning up the unburnt fuel, then the sensor is going to read a leaner than what is actually coming out of the cylinders.
04-24-2012, 11:47 AM
#1727
04' tl 6 spd
04-24-2012, 01:57 PM
#1730
ya, I agree.. sorry Joey.. but again check with the tuner person you are sseeing, they will have more realy world experience (hopefully) .. but everything I read states to not put the wideband in the engine bay due to heat issues...
but the good part is you are taking it to a tuner who should know how to tune irregardless of having cats
but the good part is you are taking it to a tuner who should know how to tune irregardless of having cats
04-24-2012, 07:55 PM
#1733
Inaccurate, you have an EGT sensor on top of the PCD, right? If so, what kind of temps are you logging.
Has anyone thought about using one of these in that position for those who have pre-cats in place? From what I can understand, it allows the use of a wideband sensor with EGT's as high as 1300 deg.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=250&page=2
Has anyone thought about using one of these in that position for those who have pre-cats in place? From what I can understand, it allows the use of a wideband sensor with EGT's as high as 1300 deg.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=250&page=2
04-25-2012, 08:08 AM
#1734
Inaccurate, you have an EGT sensor on top of the PCD, right? If so, what kind of temps are you logging.
Has anyone thought about using one of these in that position for those who have pre-cats in place? From what I can understand, it allows the use of a wideband sensor with EGT's as high as 1300 deg.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=250&page=2
Has anyone thought about using one of these in that position for those who have pre-cats in place? From what I can understand, it allows the use of a wideband sensor with EGT's as high as 1300 deg.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=250&page=2
first, I thought I was good at finding infromation, KN you far surpass me
second, the description says what happens to the wideband if in high heat but not how that part should be used to battle the high heat, it says extender but not sure what that means or how to apply it.. unless all it does is extend the bung hole... hahah I said bung hole.. so that there is less heat/gas contact with the sensor
04-25-2012, 08:34 AM
#1735
first, I thought I was good at finding infromation, KN you far surpass me
second, the description says what happens to the wideband if in high heat but not how that part should be used to battle the high heat, it says extender but not sure what that means or how to apply it.. unless all it does is extend the bung hole... hahah I said bung hole.. so that there is less heat/gas contact with the sensor
second, the description says what happens to the wideband if in high heat but not how that part should be used to battle the high heat, it says extender but not sure what that means or how to apply it.. unless all it does is extend the bung hole... hahah I said bung hole.. so that there is less heat/gas contact with the sensor
The design has a heat sink look to it with the fins machined into it. As I see it, the heat sink goes in first and the o2 sensor screws into the heat sink.
The one thing I wonder about is if this is degrading the accuracy of the readings because the tip is out of the direct flow of the gasses. But as with j-tube defoulers, It is similar in that fact as well.
If it were me in this case, I would install a bung on the top of the cat and first measure EGT's. Then if I see them staying under 1300 deg, I would next install the heatsink with the W/B and log both the wideband and stock ECU readings just to see how close they are. Then decide if the readings are close enough in various throttle/load conditions that it can be used by the MS3 to make A/F adjustments.
BTW, it's not the heat in the bay itself that is the issue, if that were the case all wiring would be Teflon. It's the temperature of the gas that you expose the sensors tip to that can degrade and shorten it's life.
Last edited by KN_TL; 04-25-2012 at 08:38 AM.
04-25-2012, 09:48 AM
#1737
Safety Car
Inaccurate, you have an EGT sensor on top of the PCD, right? If so, what kind of temps are you logging.
Has anyone thought about using one of these in that position for those who have pre-cats in place? From what I can understand, it allows the use of a wideband sensor with EGT's as high as 1300 deg.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=250&page=2
BELOW IS SOME REAL-LIFE DATA WHEN I HAD MY EGT -
EGT with excessively retarded timing and wot to 6500 RPM is 1600-1650* F. With max timing and wot, the egt is 1450-1500* F. This is with a J32 normal aspiration and PCD. Cruising on freeway at 60 mph is 950-1000* F. Freeway cruising at 80 mph is 1100* F. Idle is 800-850* F.
The ecu turns off the fuel injectors while coasting. It's funny to watch the egt gauge when coasting to a stop from freeway speeds. The egt temps will drop down to 500* F from the engine just pumping air thru itself (no combustion occurring).
04-25-2012, 09:52 AM
#1738
takin care of Business in
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Age: 40
Posts: 30,994
Received 4,732 Likes
on
4,064 Posts
The following users liked this post:
justnspace (04-25-2012)
04-25-2012, 11:46 AM
#1747
takin care of Business in
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Age: 40
Posts: 30,994
Received 4,732 Likes
on
4,064 Posts
Joey...from the excel i have from the orders i see you have:
Intake/TBS/HFC/Full Exhaust
I would suspect you to be ~265whp, 245wtq when well tuned with the ECU
Intake/TBS/HFC/Full Exhaust
I would suspect you to be ~265whp, 245wtq when well tuned with the ECU
The following users liked this post:
justnspace (04-25-2012)
04-25-2012, 11:57 AM
#1749
takin care of Business in
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Age: 40
Posts: 30,994
Received 4,732 Likes
on
4,064 Posts
^^^ actually its my mistake....you do not have a jpipe right ???
I went by 20whp/20wtq gain over Justin's dyno (241whp)....if you get the jpipe you might see the numbers jump up (but you might need a re-tune).....also can you post your AFR at WOT and idle from the map ?
I went by 20whp/20wtq gain over Justin's dyno (241whp)....if you get the jpipe you might see the numbers jump up (but you might need a re-tune).....also can you post your AFR at WOT and idle from the map ?
04-25-2012, 12:24 PM
#1751
takin care of Business in
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Age: 40
Posts: 30,994
Received 4,732 Likes
on
4,064 Posts
^^^ farrkkk !!!
i need more coffee.....
i wrote there "full exhaust": which means he should have a jpipe !!! i am growing old
i need more coffee.....
i wrote there "full exhaust": which means he should have a jpipe !!! i am growing old
04-25-2012, 01:14 PM
#1754
takin care of Business in
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Age: 40
Posts: 30,994
Received 4,732 Likes
on
4,064 Posts
The following users liked this post:
Inaccurate (04-25-2012)
04-25-2012, 02:04 PM
#1755
04' tl 6 spd
he didn't do a base run. It was knocking when he applied throttle at idle so he said he going to play it safe and tune it from idle then work forward. 4 1/2 hours $500 late. i will post the chat when he emails it to me. Its a dynojet dyno. he couldnt play with the idle control because its running off our stock ecu so there is surge at idle/start up.
04-25-2012, 04:48 PM
#1759
04' tl 6 spd
I'm still have the knock light flash, codes still there. I'm debating on taking the ms3 out because I feeling it's just going to cost more and more money. Not to happy about 250/221. The tuner said if the light goes on to go back and he will adjust the timing.
04-25-2012, 05:11 PM
#1760
takin care of Business in
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Age: 40
Posts: 30,994
Received 4,732 Likes
on
4,064 Posts