KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

My point is that if I did something to induce knock, then I'd want something in place to know it was happening and better yet to do something.

The factory algorithm is a little conservative but better than nothing.

If you install this ECU without the added knock monitor, you don't have anything to detect or protect.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

^is the monitor more crucial for FI/turbo guys or everyone including us N/A?

Inaccurate

I agree. If you are gonna to play with a knife, you need to know if you are bleeding.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

There is knock present with the factory tune. Depending on how much you want to wring out of the N/A setup. you could easily induce knock.

Several factors can induce this especially with the compression ratio we are running.

egprelude

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure its listed their website that the MS3 does not come with a controller and ANY wideband sensor used will need a controller to output the signal to it.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Um, yeah, we are all well aware of that. I am one of the few who have one of these things in my ride

I am referring to Rodney's implementation.

egprelude

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't look like Rodney would include a wideband controller without a wideband sensor? Not attacking, just thinking out loud.

I am just trying to clarify it for all since this can get pretty confusing having to think of what to add to get this up and running.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

So wanted to post some generic OBD data logging tools for those who just want to use the ECU as simple plug an play

http://www.c5racer.com/catalog/corve...i-scanner.html

http://www.obd2.com/scantool/mini-dl.htm

you have to remember though as KN stated it is conservative data but if you don’t want to go past the pre-maps of the ECU you should be fine. I would say run a log of pre JnR ECU, then a log of first run JnR ECU then just keep track from then on to make sure it stays close to your first JnR run

the next are threads I have on data logging.. as usually Innacurate has a thread from before Acura the brand was created J

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=780232

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=801734

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=842352

in all honesty there are a plethora of data loggers out there.. just look for OBD Data Loggers.. they will all tell you what your current ECU is doing.. since from what I understand the OEM ECU will still read the OEM O2 sensors if there is no wideband going to the JnR ECU

again, it is not a must have for the ECU upgrade but is a should have for any car with modifications

Noober

iTrader: (7)

so much for the estimated price range. this is why i didnt want to confirm, till price was set.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

Just want to make sure folks understand, you dont need a wideband sensor. Want to make sure that is a clear statement

however for anyone who will do further fine tuning or want to have more control of their engine then a wideband is a tool you should have.. the same for the knock monitor

TmaX

iTrader: (1)

I definitely feel the more options the better that way a person can decide what they want to do.
If we could get some updated breakdowns of the options with the costs of the additions it will make it easier for everyone to create their package and calculate their cost.

Kind of like how swoosh split the set ups but with prices.
(Guess this is pending vendor status but something everyone is keen to see)

In addition if we could get those dyno charts from 04 6MT w/ custom PCD and JnR ECU & VTEC Engagement Changes in jpg format as they're hard to see from the video alone.

There is still a lot of interest in this for the NA crowd.
Rodney should get someone to compile all the information from this thread and all the other pertinent threads into one.
I get most people will say that everyone wants everything to be spoon fed to them but thinking logically wouldn't you like to know everything about a product before making a decision.
There's a difference between saying I want proof and I want to know exactly how this works for my application; which is a reasonable question.

Products Being Offered
-Picture
-Description
-Benefit
-Video (if applicable)
-Dyno's (JPGS w/ Description of Mods)
-Cost

Packages (JnR/JnR+Knock+AFR/JnR+All etc)
-Products Included
-Reason they're packaged
-Pro's & Con's
-Price of each component


I am not saying that this information is not available or not known by some. (minus price) right now.
Its just that its all dispersed across numerous threads and on numerous sites.
Bring it all together in one and the information will flow and be more easily understood by those who have not gone FI before or tuned an ECU.
This will definitely increase interest as sometimes you want to see the information laid out in a logical manner before buying something.

Similar to how other vendors will outline their product, explain how it works and provide empirical data (dyno).

I would say 95 % of Acurazine as far as TL's are concerned are NA with a few SC and Turbo guys holding it down.
The main reason is due to the high cost of running FI on the TL which is understandable.
The market is there for NA its just a matter of gaining interest and getting the information out there for all to see.

Up until now this tool has been primarily utilized by the FI crowd.
The FI crowd forked out a premium and got the ball rolling so we should be thankful for them being the pioneers and for their help in this thread.

As NA'ers lets be aware of that and support Rodney in his endeavors by being patient and waiting to get all the information before jumping to conclusions.

If its outlined as above and addresses all the caveats for each type of end user I think he will see a definite increase pre and post-groupbuy sales to NA'ers.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ Tmax I completely understand to what you are saying....you (customers) have to realize this is not a jpipe, 1 model fits all....its more like a laptop....and if you dont know what you looking for and confuse Ram memory with HDD space, GOD BLESS YOU....

We are talking about adding a computer to the car and squeezing out every hp by NOT doing a mod but by tuning what we already have....and i will bet you, get 2 Type S MT, slap same mods on it...and throw in on the dyno a hundred times, the numbers will be different....that being said people who are asking for a dedicated tune, sorry but either you will have to go to a tuner OR drive down to Rodney....pick one

Now about your questions:

Page 5 has it....car made 271whp....

Trust me, every thread turns into the same....this is turning into "what air intake should I get" thread....there are 4-5 thread which have all the data....there are different people asking the SAME question in all the threads...if you are willing to fork out ~1500 and tune the car, i bet a research is required....otherwise you will end up with a blown motor....

I agree....we do need a picture....and let me add dimensions to it....
Description we have almost 30 pages of....
Benefit: see the videos again...
Videos and Dyno's: all of them are there
Cost: Will be disclosed

There are no predefined packages...its more like buy what fits your need + budget....Think about it this way:
ECU is needed
Do I need injectors ? NO then no need for pigtails and fuel pump
Knock Monitor and AFR controller, do i need it ? i dont WTF it is...then research it and make your decision...you have ample time....there are threads on threads discussing the same thing....even if you read this thread you will find the answers to your questions...

My point being, if your out to buy coilovers and you dont know what they do, there is no POINT !!!

The thing is not many people have this ECU....I thank HISPEED + KN_TL for chiming in....coz they are the one's rocking the ECU....

there IS NO one who is NA and has the ECU and chiming in....so thats the problem which we are facing....

about 95% of Azine being NA....out of that 30% dont know what ECU is, 30% are stock...30% are afraid as JnR is a new company and "ohhh its not plug and play like the exhaust"....9.999% are not interested in spending ~1500 bucks, remains the .0001% which are 18-20 people on the list....

I would suggest everyone to hold onto their horses....I have the list of pricing ready....I will be posting it the very minute, Rodney tells me he is a VENDOR.....

Once the pricing it out, it will help you decide whats going on....what is included....

But to sum the thread up:

ECU will help you control various parameters and help you gain horses....you will be able to see how the engine is running using couple tools.
NEEDED

Knock Monitor will help you monitor knock which in turn will help you tune the car to the edge. To monitor this you will need the knock monitor...
RECOMMENDED

AFR means Air Fuel Ratio....a very important parameter which basically tells if your running rich/lean. It is what mixture is burning in your engine....To monitor this you will need a wideband sensor which will be welded on the exhaust around the 3rd cat area. This sensor will be connected to the controller which will feed the MS3 (ECU). Will see if Rodney can hook us up with great prices on these
RECOMMENDED

Injectors + Fuel Pump + Pigtails: If your looking at doing some FI or head worK this is a good opportunity to get a great price on this....
NOT REQUIRED FOR NA. ONLY FOR FI or SERIOUS TUNERS

DATA LOGGING/GAUGES: You will be able to connect various logging tools + displaying tools to this ECU. This will help you see what exactly is going on when you hit WOT or are idling. Many hardwares allow you to download data and look into it and tune your car accordingly. Will ask Rodney if he can include this as well.
NOT REQUIRED FOR NA. ONLY FOR FI or SERIOUS TUNERS

BASE MAP: the ECU will come with a base map. The base map will be different for MT/AT and Base and Type S models. This map will be based on the TEST vehicle. If you have different mods than the TEST car you can still run with this base map.
INCLUDED

TUNING: The process of modifying/tuning the base map to fit the mods on your car. The ECU is ofcourse tunable....ways to tune it is either pay a professional tuner and get it done or get the EFI so it tunes the car while you drive....
RECOMMEND EITHER ONE

I hope i didnt miss out on anything....sorry for the long ass post...

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Then how does the A/F data from the stock electronics get fed back to the MS3?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Just to clarify this point for everyone.

TunerStudio, which is used to look at and modify the maps along with a dashboard for displaying various engine parameters. It also has logging capability and there is also some other log viewing programs that can be used on various platforms in combination with a PC connected via usb or smart device using a wifi to serial adapter.

You can also setup the data logging via TunerStudio to write to an SD card that is part of the ECU itself. It can be triggered via a button or run continuously. More details can be found here:

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/sdlogging.html

If you want to log data from the factory ECU, then the OBD-II scanners are what you want and there are a bunch of solutions for this combination out there.. I wouldn't bother myself but that is an option.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

if the MS3 is premapped and a person dont want to fine tune then you dont need the wideband...

the OBD loggers will tell you if anything is extremely abnormal.. but as you said KN, it is very conservative..

just trying to let folks who dont want to get deep into the editing options the opportunity to still to purchase JnR ECU

TmaX

iTrader: (1)

I'm not saying I don't know the above stated added information but rather it would be beneficial to compile it in one place.
I've read both threads in their entirity and thought to myself what if it were all summarized in Post #1.
This might just be because I'm used to writing essays and organizing information.

For a product of this stature it does itself good to have the information organized as such.
For the skeptics that out there this approach would help qualm their concerns.

My suggestions are just that suggestions meant to help this ECU be a big hit and promote future business for JnR.
This is so that they can continue to be pioneers in the TL platform like the new module to take automatic transmission control for us 5AT folk

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ I agree with you bro....but its not like the functionality are predefined...we are constantly finding new things to do with this....

Rodney is currently working on something which will make our auto tranny's a monster and we might be able to control this using the MS3....so its always something new....

but i concur to your comment....let me try to gather all the info from the 3-4 threads and make a long ass essay LMAO...

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Finally got around to reading the manual on this and you are correct, maps can be fixed.

I wouldn't want to run this way even N/A but if you have precats and can't run an additional O2 sensor, then that is your only choice.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

Just getting it back on track

1. ANIL - 05 5AT - swoosh - SURE AS HELL
2. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace - Credit card ready
3. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
4. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531 - ready
5. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
6. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
7. fenda rolla - 07 base AT - SURE AS HEAVEN, bitches...
8. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speed- ECU,Injectors, Fuel Assembly
9. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
10. r3devi7 - '04 AT - Debit card ready....BALLIN' !!!
11. Joey tl - 04 TL
12. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
13. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT 100% GOOD TO GO
14. Anon Person- Wanted to keep the mods under the wraps so PM-ed me to add his name on the list. SURE AS HELL via PM
15. Joe Manteiga 06 AT - sloppyjoe92
16. t0talacuratl - 04 TL 6spd - ready for sure
17. Noober - 07 TL-S 5AT - Ready Pending Price
18. Feji - FCVADI - 04 6MT
19.


and now reset and discuss again!!!

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

you can still run the sensor near the 3rd cat/test pipe location tho, correct?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ NO

KN is talking about OEM Precats. The sensor has to be BEFORE any cat....so for people running OEM PRECAT they will have to wire a bung right next to the stock O2 sensor or take a reading from the O2 sensor....

If you have precat deletes, your good

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

If someone really wants to keep their factory precats I suppose you could install o2 sensor simulators to fool the factory ECU avoiding a CEL and then find a narrowband o2 sensor that can handle the extreme temperature and connect it directly to the MS3.

Not as accurate as the wideband but to me would be better than fixed.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

been trading emails with rodney, here are a few that i felt would be helpful for the community.

Aaron in n/a application weve seen an increase of 25+whp and remember all dynos read different so another Dyno may register higher ,and numbers sre grester on street than on Dyno as theres more air ect .
With supporting mods you have thay should be more than achieveable ...
Now for n/a applicaton a wideband sensor is really not needed .(why)? Once tune is set it does not change ,the maps we have has been verified and tested so maps are pretty dead on ,and most people probably will be heading to the Dyno where they all have wideband which theyll use to fine tune the car ,so unless you are a tuner who will be tuning car it is not necessary for boosted application we do recommend it .....
As far as knock unit we recommend it for boosted applications ,for n/a we dont stress this, as the oem ecu and knock sensor still will detect any problem if any occurs but wont be able to pull timing as now it will only detect ...
Ill go ahead and say if your a regular racer go ahead and get knock box if not I would just opt for ecu ,in short if I were buying ecu I would maybe and maybe only opt to get knock box if funds are available, wodeband I wouldnt unless boosted or you just want some gauges .I really hope this help email me for any questions I overlooked...

the tune is set for the cars already so just plugging on ecu you will be fine ,if your tring to extract every bit of power out of ecu ,a local tuner can rin car on Dyno and make adjustments might be able to pick up a few whp ,but like I said this is not a necessity.
According to your upgrades we will send corresponding map closest to your setup ,which means I wont be sending a tune with oem cats but rather one with all upgrades.
let me try to make it easy weve extracted 25+whp ,of youre looking for more then bring car to get fine tuned at a Dyno which there and then youll see a/f ratio ect ...
All cars a bit different ,with fine tuni.g more power can be made ....

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Aaron, that was a good post....

but in all honesty what different did Rodney tell you ?

All info was on this thread already....maybe you just wanted to hear it from Rodney

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

^nah i know what you mean. i was just posting one complete consensus for the hell of it you know?

looks like for my needs, all i need is the ECU itself. i don't plan on going FI/turbo/cam work so i should be ok with just the ECU

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ makes sense....your for ECU

the fenda rolla

Aaron , thanks for that post! It might have been said before, but for some reason, for me, that was crystal clear as to what we do and do not need. One piece of info that is new from that email, is that even though the stock knock sensor detects knock, the stock ECU will not cut timing...which is excellent!

Just ECU for me too...although it's nice to know i can tweak certain parameters if I still want to on my own...without a pro tuner...

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

1. ANIL - 05 5AT - swoosh - SURE AS HELL
2. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace - Credit card ready
3. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
4. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531 - ready
5. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
6. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
7. fenda rolla - 07 base AT - SURE AS HEAVEN, bitches...
8. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speed- ECU,Injectors, Fuel Assembly
9. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
10. r3devi7 - '04 AT - Debit card ready....BALLIN' !!!
11. Joey tl - 04 TL
12. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
13. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT 100% GOOD TO GO
14. Anon Person- Wanted to keep the mods under the wraps so PM-ed me to add his name on the list. SURE AS HELL via PM
15. Joe Manteiga 06 AT - sloppyjoe92
16. t0talacuratl - 04 TL 6spd - ready for sure
17. Noober - 07 TL-S 5AT - Ready Pending Price
18. Feji - FCVADI - 04 6MT
19.
20.

Come on fellas lets make 20 orders

Black07TLS

1. ANIL - 05 5AT - swoosh - SURE AS HELL
2. Justin Myers - '06 6MT - justnspace - Credit card ready
3. Justin Rogers- '04 AT - j-rogsuperstar
4. Champ - 06 AT - TheChamp531 - ready
5. phatrick34 - 06 base MT - phatrick
6. Jack213 - 05 AT supercharge
7. fenda rolla - 07 base AT - SURE AS HEAVEN, bitches...
8. InFaMouS LinK - 06 6speed- ECU,Injectors, Fuel Assembly
9. Bouncer07- 05 TL 6spd
10. r3devi7 - '04 AT - Debit card ready....BALLIN' !!!
11. Joey tl - 04 TL
12. Dstah - 07 tl-s 6speed
13. Sharksbreath - 07 TL-S AT 100% GOOD TO GO
14. Anon Person- Wanted to keep the mods under the wraps so PM-ed me to add his name on the list. SURE AS HELL via PM
15. Joe Manteiga 06 AT - sloppyjoe92
16. t0talacuratl - 04 TL 6spd - ready for sure
17. Noober - 07 TL-S 5AT - Ready Pending Price
18. Feji - FCVADI - 04 6MT
19. Black07tls - 5AT (pcds, rv6 v3 jpipe, aem v2)- Cash in Hand
20.

d-j-m

I think I'm sold. So you'll set it according to my upgrades, and I just plug it in without doing anything?

The price isn't outrageous like a supercharger is it? More in the exhaust range?

BostonSilverTypeS

Okay sorry to keep yall out of the loop on my tune session down in Florida with Rodney.....

First off i just want to say Rodney is 100% legit he knows his stuff and the customer service is just outstanding! aka he is a kool ass mothaa efferrrr....Thanks again for everything Rodney

I really had no mobile device with me to post anything while on vacation and the time i had in a house i was just to busy to sit and post info of the tune!!

I was rushing so much that when I left the dyno shop I forgot to grab my printouts and so did Rodney!!


So it's late now but I will post some videos of my runs and couple of graphs during the tuning session!

the final numbers were 281whp/246lbs compared to initial run with no ECU which was 260whp/222lbs so the gains were very nice to say the least..... I was just impressed on how the torque curve was a nice flatline almost all the way to redline

Rodney and Doc were pretty easy and kool to deal with. Even after the dyno I went on the road with Doc(tuner) and street dyno'd and made some fine tweaks here and there where we were getting some knock and lag or what not.... needless to say when it was all said and done the diffirence felt was night and day just amazing how much the car woke up after this ECU!!!

and yess I only got ECU installed and it literally took 5minutes to install jusyt very super easy to do and really nothing to it (i chose to place it on pass side upfront under carpet there is a slight bulge that is really not noticeable and my wife did not notice anything either and even if someone were to put their foot on it i mean its a solid black box and nothing is going to happen to it


The drive back was flawless no issues i drove from 70degrees to 9degrees back home and thru elevations from sea level to as high as 2850ft and no issues were noticed


some minor concerns which is being worked by Rodney as we speak is the governor on the auto trans.......

we were able to get the fuel cut off removed and on the dyno we did manage a pull where car reached 152mph but for some reason on the street it would not go past 132-135mph which Rodney is aware and will address to me what needs to be done....but this is only for auto guys and for people who want to governor removed if not then you have no worries

I have not emailed Rodney on this issue but in the morning cold weather the car is being a bitch to start usually its taking me 5minutes of cranking to start and yes Rodney even doing the cycles it is still just cranking but once it starts it runs fine and won't do it again till next cold morning!!!

I am not worried as Rodney is working hard and I am in no rush to get this solved as it does not really bother me much......

JnRECU will not throw a code or for me at least it has not... I also did a EGR delete and this will throw a CEL code, but very easy to put back in and reset and get vehicle stickered for all us state inspections ppl!!! Also remember dont just clear code day before inspection and bring it in as the readiness codes will not be ready and you will fail!!! vehicle will need to be driven usually for couple of days with plenty of city.highway crusing to get codes ready or you can just do a drive cycle which I happen to do at my job so if anyone is interested in this just shoot me a pm and I can gladly explain the drive cycle which takes anywhere between 30-45minutes to get codes ready..


Ok enough for tonight anything I left out just ask and I will try to respond to, also I will try to get the videos up by tommorow late in the day after I get off work if not tommorow then by weekend for sure......

For anyone still debating on getting this ECU I say do it and you will not look back and be glad you made the purchase..... Rodney thanks again and glad you were able to squeeze me in on the 30th at around 9pm to like midnight yesss that is what I call working with customer hours...unheard of around my way.....

4drviper

Wait,,, so how have FI people been running before this came out?

libert69

iTrader: (7)

^aem fic

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

@BostonSilverTypeS

I experience the same sort of startup issue and I haven't tried it in the cold yet, this was in the warmer weather. Seems to need to crank for a couple seconds then fires right up.

I felt the same experience going from the FIC to the J&R. Night and day difference how the car woke up and was so responsive.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Effin great review Boston....It only makes me want to go down to Richie for the install....

and killer gains 21whp and 24WTQ

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

great review, boston. thanks!

so you said you experienced knock/lag and it had to be tweaked on the road? is it safe to assume that the rest of us will have that issue as well?

also the cold starts where you have to crank it for 5 minutes...? no thanks. what is the story behind that? kinda' worries me a little.

happy to hear that rodney will be going to bat for us 5AT guys with the governor removal and hopefully more. very interested in that feature.

again, thanks for the thourough review!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ bro i love the way you think ? what do you do for a living ? no seriously....you come across as a project manager or some like that....

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

design outdoor/indoor pool layouts, spas, fireplace inserts, etc.

if somebody wants an inground pool built in their backyard in a kidney shape with pebbleteck flooring and marble coping blah blah blah...i help design it.

i'm looking for a new job tho...times are though and nobody is building $100k pools anymore.

anyway, back on topic! J&R ECU!!!

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't be concerned about the startup. There are settings to tweak that.

The fact that for the same price as some catbacks, you can have a totally different ride.

If I hadn't already plunged into the turbo world, I would be all over this.

Sonnick

Awesome review Boston! I'm so excited for all you guys getting this ECU (and jealous). 21whp/24wtq is a great gain! That would lead me to believe that I'd gain similar numbers being that our mods are similar minus my ported manifold. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm that sounds tasty.

I think I may try to tune myself with the FIC and see how that works out. If it doesn't go too well, I may decide to sell it. Hopefully my clutch will sell as well. I need it gone!

Good luck guys and I will definitely be keeping an eye on this thread.