AltecBX

Guys do you think Honda will produce more than 290HP to a fwd? This is crazy, as all insurance company's will raise the rate on this kind of vehicle. By adding more HP now and still keeping the lb-ft of torque down, Acura ain't doing nothing but selling us numbers(Marketing strategy). When Acura is ready to play with the big boys, they will introduce more HP and Torque with a AWD or a RWD platform. PERIOD.

56Oval

Hundred bucks to a donut hole that my original '07 predictions come true:

Minor updates to the front and rear fascias, headlights tail-lights. (Don't they have to go clear tail-lights like the rest of the "in" cars?)

Perhaps a little interior refresh. A couple new paint colors.

Minor bump in horsepower. Probably around 275 or whatever the number we've seen from the Chinese site.

That's it. Nothing more. Look at what Honda has done historically in the mid-lifecycle refresh. It's always very minor.



If there is a Type-S again, the J35 seems like a great idea.

acuraz88

The way its going.. I think so.. They are going to give the type-s 290 hp but no AWD..

whatjones911

My list of realistic changes to the inteior for the 07 TL are a new steering wheel similar to the RDX, refreshed gauge with the numbers looking like the 06 TSX, new aluminum trim pattern, new navi of course like the TSX with Zagat(MAYBE with real-time traffic but dont count on it), MP3 cd capability, new buttons, power tilt steering, Auxiliary audio jack for IPods, and hopefully no rattles

brian92873

I agree with you for the most part, although, i'd add LED tail lights since the accord now has them.

brian92873

my coffee hasn't kicked in yet...i just saw that you had indeed included taillights...DOH!

Drunkenmunky23

we already have LED taillights......

brian92873

i meant cleared tails...i'll crawl back under my rock now

rockylee

What in the heck is a Grand Am GXP ?


Rocky

type_sGuy05

its the grand PRIX GXP. (get the Grand am, and prix mixed up all the time).

303 HP v8 with FWD. But Pontiac actually fits it with wider tires up front than rear to account for torque steer.

Xpditor

Excuse me? "Infamous for bad torque steer"? What car are you talking about? Do you have a TL? Have you driven one? My TL does NOT have bad torque steer. I can feel it if I floor it going around a corner (hasn't happened very often), but it is not bad. If you want to feel bad torque steer, drive a Maxima or Altima 3.5.

I understand there might be some more torque steer in the 6MT with the LSD because it doesn't like to let one front wheel spin faster than the other -which it has to do when going around a corner.

In all the magazine road tests I have read on the TL, none has complained about "bad torque steer". So, if you have a different real-world experience, I'd be glad to hear it.

type_sGuy05

guess you don't read Car and Driver. ONly reason the car hasn't won multiple comparos, and made the Ten Best list is because of Torque steer.

Dont get me wrong, I love the TL...but Kennedy's point is if you pack more than 270 in any FWD car and try launching hard and exiting hard out of a corner and tell me how your steering wheel feels. Honda is great at making wonderful handling cars, but we're not fooling anyone by saying the beloved TL doestn' suffer from Torque steer.

type_sGuy05

from car and driver-

Highs: Acura's second-best V-6 to date, slick manual transmission, sophisticated styling inside and out.

Lows: Front-wheel-drive propulsion, underwhelming tires, torque-steer symptoms.

The Verdict: A rear-driveshaft shy of getting our full recommendation.


The car's equipment levels are extraordinary, and the Elliot Scheiner stereo is an aural delight. But—and it's a big but—the TL has annoying torque steer. For me, that's a fatal flaw.

Acura's familiar formula—plenty of power, lots of baked-in luxury features—should make the new TL even more desirable than its successful predecessor. But there's a catch: 270 horsepower plus the limited-slip diff that goes with the six-speed manual produce more than a little torque reaction. It's only the limited slip doing its job, but

Base your performance views on curves instead of straight lines, and the Acura's shortcomings quickly become evident. Hustled through the 300-foot skidpad, the TL managed to pull 0.81 g, which is less grip than that achieved by the G35 (0.87) and the 330i (0.83). A call to the Potenza bullpen is in order. On our 10Best handling loop, where twisty roads abound, the TL couldn't attack curves with the same speed and vigor as the Infiniti and BMW, inspiring less confidence because of its heavier front-loaded nature. Balance is key here, and the Acura's 60/40 front-to-rear weight bias can't match the BMW's perfect 50/50 or the Infiniti's 53/47. At 3521 pounds, the TL feels heavy and not nearly as light on its feet as the 330i, which weighs 144 pounds less, and even the G35, which weighs five pounds more.

Moreover, the TL's power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering lacks the direct communication of the BMW's and Infiniti's, hampering a close relationship between the driver and the road. We found ourselves constantly adjusting the wheel through sweeping curves. The steering is weighted in a nice, light fashion, but its effort doesn't build progressively, and there's too much assist when what you want is direct feedback


from MOTOR TREND

The TL's Accord roots are showing at the outer edges of the performance envelope. And with 270 horsepower and 238 pound-feet of torque on tap, the TL's steering has something else to deal with: torque steer. Punch the throttle and the steering wheel tugs to the right.

what car magazines do you read???- again, love the TL, but c'mon lets be honest with it though.

Xpditor

I read all of them.

Most of the complaints are generic to FWD cars and I still haven't see one that said the TL has "bad torque steer". Magazines, as I'm sure you know, don't like FWD in general. The article you quoted speaks of "torque steer symptoms", which is not quite the same as "bad torque steer".

They also speak of steering responses in general in broad sweepers which is another topic not directly related to torque steer. More about the steering system and vehicle balance.

Agreed that 6MTs tested on rough roads had prominent torque steer (LSD working) when going around a corner and getting on the throttle.

Magazines aside, I am telling you of my real experience that my TL with a 5AT has minimal torque steer. OTOH, I rented a Maxima a couple of months ago and learned what people are talking about concerning bad torque steer.

As Toyota says in their most recent print ad:



But, that's another topic for another thread.

type_sGuy05

uh, , can you explain to me what "good" torque steer is since no one wrote "bad" torque steer? Torque steer in its nature is bad, so i think if its written, thats what it means.

I actually quoted 'friendlier' parts of the article, and later on as well as the motor trend article, it clearly says it suffers from torque steer.


I'm not hear to hijack the thread, or debate. Like I said, Honda makes great handling cars. But physics is physics, you pack 270-290 horses thru the front tires and youll be tugging launching out of a curve...thats all Kennedy' was saying I think.

The reason I love the TL is that for all intensive purposes, you won't feel it cause you're not autoxing on your way to work. Its a great value. but lets not pretend it doesn't has its limits on the curves, and based on its drivetrain.

Xpditor

Well, you can induce torque-steer in any car that is being driven by it's steering tires. "Bad" to me implies worse than normal. In everyday driving, my TL has NO torque steer but I know that I can induce it if I want to.

Most magazine tests that I have read test the 6MT. I have read here and elsewhere that it is more of an issue with the 6MT on hard acceleration while turning on a bad road.

So for me, the TL has a minimal amount of torque steer one would anticipate with a FWD since it is a characteristic of that set up. Since I have driven FWD for almost 17 years (alongside RWD), it doesn't appear on my radar screen in everyday driving. So, I don't see it as a fault of the TL, but rather a characteristic of the drive line.

When you are road racing through mountain curves, as C&D were apparently doing, they were comparing the TL with 2 RWD giants: the BMW 3 and the G35. Of course they will feel different. And, also, the 3 series is smaller and lighter which is also an advantage in the curvies.

If you look at R&T's April 04 test of the TL, you will see that it out-handled in all areas a BMW 530i with a sport package. But... they still didn't like the feel and the torque steer (compared to a RWD car). As we know, none of the magazine's writing elite like FWD. But, compared with other FWD cars, they like the TLs handling.

We have drifted a bit off topic here so let's end the torque-steer discussion by saying this: You don't like any torque steer. I find the TL to have a very mild, rather than bad case when compared with other FWDs- especially the 5AT.

type_sGuy05

we are off topic, but part of the topic is what Kennedy said- putting more power thru the front wheels in car known to have torque steer is not the smartest thing.

You, responded to that rather surpsied asking for "explanations".

You can't just chalk it up to FWD. Cause not all FWD suffer from 'bad' Torque steer as you stated. But guess which ones are more prone to? really powerful ones, like the TL.

in the 07, i hope it has more power. But if it goes up too high, the gain begins to be marginal, cause torque steer will only increase.

acuraz88

Torque steer is torque steer... doesn't matter what car its on.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Jeez...
Even Acura recognized the TL's BAD torque steer problem and introduced a more potent VSS system in the 2006 6MT (which is what I have)...
I still feel it when I get on it, even with this new system, but it's not nearly as bad as my buddy's 04.
On a 6MT with VSS off, if you drop the clutch, your wheel turns 90+ degrees, and yep, "you better have a firm grip on that leather wrapped A-Spec steering wheel".

Torque steer is much easier to control in an auto, as the power can be governed through the tranny... which is much easier than control on the 6MT's, as the TS issue is governed through engine timing and power delivery.

Xpditor, please don't drink the cool aid. The TL (OK, any FWD car with a LOT of power) will have torque steer problems... Adding 20 more HP on top of that will not help that problem... which is why the 290 HP RL HAS AWD.
Adding more power will ony amplify the problem further.

TLTypeSTx

I've an '03 TL Type_S....love the acceleration merging in and out of traffic(hate the handling when trying to park in tight spots)...if the '07 Type_S indeed appears w/ ~295 hp in FWD, I think alot of us w/ 2nd gen TLs that live in the sunbelt will jump on it because of the cool 3d gen styling/interior, improved acceleration in everday situations, and the belief that the '08 redesign w/ SH-AWD will cost even more $ and won't be generally useful to us...I also hope they come out w/ an improved color selection...I want a British Racing Green TL!!!....

Acura98TL

I am starting to believe that Acura has found a way to keep the press' lips sealed shut...haha. It is amazing how no where on the net is there some form of a spy shot after the first wave of the press event is over with.....

Drunkenmunky23

i second that, but that can only mean 1 of 2 things:

either the car is goin to have major improvements (awd, more hp, etc) and so the confidentiality of the new model may be a marketing strategy

or the improvements are not substantial enough for acura to make such a big deal about it and therefore theres not much info on it.

considering the new model should come out 08/09, im thinkin the latter argument is more likely.

chill_dog

I'm not sure if this has occured to you, but Acura's big '07 release is the RDX. To us, it's the TL with MMC, but to them (and probably the automotive community) it's the RDX. That's where the hoopla is now; the TL will get it in '08 for the '09 4G...until then, it's just another car with a few tweaks for the next years' model.

Acura98TL

Or all those Car mags are workin on publishing their finds as we speak for their next issue.....

Drunkenmunky23

kind of late for "spy" information. ususally car mags would start getting into automotive reviews/comparisons by this time

b/c if the car was going to be majorly improved, im sure they would have made at least some hype about it, especially since the RDX has been known about for a while now.

but like was said above, the RDX is acura's main focus this year.

whatjones911

I think the car mag could care less what the refresh is. They will care when the acutally car is available.

AltecBX

Yea, but a RDX(4-Cly) for $37K, who wants it. The TL and Civic will continue to bring $ for Honda. Chaning the TL platform this year will not make a smart business choice.

brian92873

yeah but if there were going to be little to no changes, acura would not have included the TL in the press event, the RL wasn't but thats becuase its not getting any changes and thus there is nothing to announce...based SOLEY on the fact that the TL was included in the event, we'll DEFINITELY see something out of this

brian92873

i'm inclined to agree with this...

AltecBX

Word is that the Acura
'07 TL will get the 3.2 more HP.
'09 TL will get the 3.5.
'07 MDX will get the 3.7.
'08 RL will get the 3.5 more HP.
'10 RL will get the 3.7.
'07 RSX gone.
'08 TSX will get 2.4 more HP.
'08 TSX coupe.

Acura98TL

From what source do you know this information or are you just speculating this info.....

type_sGuy05

i also heard the 2089 NSX will have a jet powered engine and SH AWD- this time SH standing for Space Hovering.

Drunkenmunky23

lol, i got a kick out of that one

....question tho.....if the car can hover...why does it need awd?

type_sGuy05

cause AWD stands for astronaut willing dynamics..didn't you know this?

jdeec

oh snap!

jdeec

that's real space-age technology right there

Drunkenmunky23

nah man i didnt, acura should really clarify things like this

King of Pain

Here are some spy shots of the new TL.

LOL

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Sorry, I just had to do that. This thread was getting out of hand.

You guy are taken this a little to serious. Have some fun!!!!!

brian92873

THIS PRESS EVENT SUCKS

SleekSilver

Word.