krio

and the good thing for Audi A4 is that it offers: 1.8TFSI, 1.9 TDI, 2.0 TFSI, 2.0TDI, 2.4, 2.7TDI, 3.0TDI, 3.2FSI, S4 V8 and... the next gen. RS4 with 470hp. So long!

in Audi are discussing about putting in the first RS5 the Lamborghini Gallardo V10... 550hp. My God.

TSXinTN

I've never bought based on "the last one was good, so I'll just plan on the getting the next one." That's a decidely "non-enthusiast" strategy, IMHO. That's the brand-loyal, "My family always bought Plymouth" mentality; I'm surprised so many of you claim to adhere to that, then rant about jumping ship. Watch out for the gunnel on your way over the side, maties.

Are you new to Honda/Acura? "The last one was good, so I'll plan on getting the next one" is exactly what we do. Do you ever purchase the same brand of clothing or tires or food? Why? Let me answer, because you like them and they have proven to be good products that suit your needs.

Those of us who bought an early model TSX were looking for an entry level luxury sedan. That was 4-5 years ago. My salary has increased nearly 50% since then. I can better afford gasoline. I now have a taste for finer things than I had 4 years ago. If I want a faster, more powerful luxury sedan I should not have to trade MY brand to get it. Don't even mention the TL. There is very little comparasion between the two cars and anyone that has driven both knows that.

I have owned an '87 Accord, a '98 Civic, an '04 TSX and an '07 Pilot. All have been great vehicles for my needs at the time. Up until now I have had no need to look to another brand. IMO, Honda/Acura has proven to be extremely reliable and very affordable over my adult life. I don't want another brand. I want MY brand to give enough choices where it can meet my needs no matter what point I am at in life. Shouldn't this be the goal of every car company?

And I am not jumping ship, not yet anyway. I am simply gazing over the side...

cbusAcuracls

I agree. I've read the past 5 pages of comments concerning the 4 hp loss and this and that. I have to admit I was a little upset when I heard of the loss of hp even with the significant gain of tq but I also understand the new emission laws..and like stated above I too have been on honda/acura side for a while and I still have faith they will not fail us. I have looked at other manufacturers..and there is a reason I always come back to H/A. for the money/ reliability/ service...H/A is #1 in my book. I have an 01 CL-S and for a car that is 7 years old there is very few other cars on the road I'd rather be driving. That alone say's alot. I again am officially stating I have faith Acura...I have faith . Please let our prayers be answered....
I strongly feel Acura will pull something out that will shock and amaze us all (in a good way..not an RL grille way) ha ha. Until then I am waiting patiently and enjoying what I have right now.

LukeaTron

^^^ This may not apply to you but you seem to be expressing at least a portion of something that a lot of people have been. Why do so many of you think the TSX should be a radical departure from what it has been since it's inception? It was created to fill the space of those who want to get into the luxury game but don't want to (or simply just can't) spend the money that the marquee brands demand for their offerings.

If the TSX were to receive a significant bump up in power or have radical changes to the dynamics such as RWD (this will never happen, keep dreaming) the price would jump up tremendously and leave Acura with a big hole in it's offerings. Honda is and always has been a company that is driven by practicality. The Acura brand stirs in a bit of refinement but at it's core, is still a highly practical Honda machine. This approach has allowed Honda to grow very steadily for decades. It's absurd to think they would go and topple their game plan out of the blue when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

It kind of pisses me off that 1/2 the people crying like total babies are crawling out of the woodwork just to pitch a fit. If you're going to abandon Acura/Honda over this, go right ahead. There will be plenty of people behind you to pick up the slack, both new to the brand and those who have known it for years.

A Type-S is coming, grow an ounce of patience and STFU.

Mokos23

i'm thinking that Honda should've followed Toyota with the marketing of the transition from the first gen IS300 to the IS250/IS350.

IS300 had 215 hp

IS250 has 204 hp, yes it's less than the IS300 in hp, but the IS350 with 306 hp is there to make up for it.

1st gen TSX has 205 hp

2nd gen TSX 201 hp, yes if they follow Toyota's plan there will be a TSX-S with 230-240 hp.

Colin

As I reflect on my sins, I feel bad now. This whole uproar reminds me of the AP1 vs. AP2 S2000 debate that continues to rage on. We've had 4 S2000s, two AP1s and two AP2s. Honolulu has no race track so a car with a 9000 rpm has significantly lower appeal now. I find myself liking an engine that is better for 90% of my driving, especially since the 10% is no longer available.

It's far too early to put a nail in the TSX coffin. Weight and price will all play factors in the cars success and in my ultimate decision to go with a '08 or '09. I put a premium on handling and the new chassis will surely be significantly stiffer with a higher percentage of high strength steel.

The a 2007 Accord with 4 cyl weighed 3093 and a new '08 Accord (4 cyl)weighs around 3236-3349. Not a huge gain considering the size of the new car.

As for the price, the weak dollar probably limits how much they can sell the car for and still stay at an entry level price point.

Time will tell.

TSXinTN

This is an online forum. It exists for several reasons one of which is so opinions can be expressed. If you don't think I have the right to express mine then you need to "STFU".

LuvMyTSX

A Type-S has not been officially confirmed, so until then, I maintain the opinion that they NEED engine options - something for the conservative people, and something for the enthusiasts. That is not too much to ask, and most every manufacturer offers this.

dom

Everyone here has right to express an opinion. But lets do so respectfully and intelligently. Remembering that they are OPINIONS and nothing more.

LukeaTron

Sorry, that point wasn't directed at you. None of it was really. I'm talking more about the people with less than 10 posts that come in and post one sentence that's purely just them crying. There's page upon page of that now.

They're not being remotely objective about the shreds of info we've got on this new car. It's all just poorly thought out knee jerking. It just boggles my mind why any one would think Honda was going to turn the TSX into M3 competitor overnight. And it pisses me off that these people can't see how insignificant they're concerns are. Those people who will not consider another Honda/Acura vehicle purely because they didn't turn their entry level luxury sedan into a super car are about .0001% of the market. Why the fuck would Honda cater to them at the expense of 90% it's existing market?

People just don't think. The conceitedness of it all just disgusts me.

TSXinTN

Understood. My apologies. I just want some choices. I totally understand Acura not adding 30-40 HP to the new TSX. I contend that there are enough folks that don't want a TL but want a faster, more powerful car than the current offering of the TSX.

dom

I don't think anyone is looking for a super car.

I would have been happy with 220-230 HP from the 2.4 and a Type-S which I also happen to think is on its way.

Ideally, I would have liked to see Acura move to RWD (unrealistic for some reason I know) and even more ideally I would have loved to see the TSX with a small, high revving V6 making 240-250 HP and ~190-200 lb-ft.

I think what most people are missing is the possibility of an Type-S. An AWD Type-S would IMO quiet us all as far as the 09 goes.

wackura

I'm not entirely sure but I think if a car is ever going to be AWD the frame has to be engineered to accomodate the drive shaft, rear differential and what have you, and supposing the new TSX isn't, they won't offer AWD for this new model.

wackura

Are you suggesting people's whose leases are up just go without a car for an unknown amount of time and wait for a car that may or may not exist? Or is your idea of patience getting a Lexus IS-350 instead?

TypeRS

Word.

What a HUGE disappointment from Acura. As if the new grill is bad enough, the new TSX is merely just a 1.5 TSX to me. Honda was obviously too chickenshit to change things up and make it more than it could be probably because they think the current gen is already good as is.

When will Honda/Acura learn that if they want to be perceived as an upscale and sporty brand, they have to design cars that actualyl look good with the power to match. I'm starting to hate Honda/Acura for their stubborn/boring ways. The RL was already a huge disappointment and this isn't any better.

Even the press announcement hints of Acura's lack of balls to create a killer car:
Carefully crafted to honor the original TSX's vision as a world-class sports sedan...The 2009 TSX is expected to appeal to current TSX owners...

Pretty much sums up Acura's intensions right there. The words "carefully crafted to honor the original TSX" alone sound troubling enough that they're afraid to mess with the car, thinking current gen owners will want to get it when they should be focusing on getting new buyers. They're obviously trying to capture buyers of the first car. Not good when the car seems hardly any different.

And as 05 TSX owner, this new one isn't compelling enough for me to trade up to a new one. Why would I anyway? The new one is bigger, heavier, has worse mileage, AND the navi is no longer touch-screen - a huge fail for me there. Looks like i'll be looking to BMW in the future...

Let's just hope that a Type-S really is in the works. I'm fearing the 09 TL won't be much different now to the current one.

Texas

I would have liked the base to be more towards T-s level engine in the base and then for types S you add the suspension, wheels, tires, trim etc..and maybe more go juice.....This would hold the base cost a little lower rather than having to spend the T-S dollars for some go juice and extras......which it looks a lot will be doing if staying with TSX..

Case in point is I liked the TL-S engine but did not care for the lets put stiffer struts on it and call it a day approach to the suspension.....the 3.5 in the base TL would have been nice for some.....

Maybe this in the TSX write up is to mitigate the problem on harsh ride for future T-S:
"Another first for Acura are the TSX’s new dual-mode suspension dampers, which provide superior suspension damping characteristics at both lower and higher damper speeds. Using a unique deflector plate stack, the new dampers adjust compression damping characteristics to suit the vehicle speed, cornering forces and road surface. "

Newplay1

You know Vtec.net guys are going to run the new 09'TSX Dyno and come back with "Honda did it again and under rated 2.4Liter"...

dom

Am I the only one that doesn't understand the point of underrating an engine in this case? Especially one rated at 201 HP. If it makes 210 or 215 than marketing 101 says thats what the specs should say. I highly doubt Acura likes to rely on word of mouth or internet chat rooms to advertise the real number.

I can understand the 335 or TL Type-S being underrated considering the models and motors above them. But what would Acura have to lose by marketing 210 in the TSX.

gt0279a

You know that's for when the MMC rolls around and they can bump it to 210-215

krio

Agree. I expected too 225-230 hp.
I fear Acura is believing that making different models, like TL and TSX with the SAME engine could affect the selling. The market is showing the contrary.
About the 201 hp vs 205:
If you look at the new Audi TFSI 1.8, he got 160hp, when 4 years ago the 1.8T had 163hp, but the fuel consuption and the lighter new engine are big +.
Than why bother for Acura?
Because Audi gives you for the A4 6 different engines... from 150 to 420hp... please, get what you want.
If Acura is seriously thinking about 2 engines for each model, TSX and TL, base and Type-s, please, don't wait 3 years for selling them!!

LukeaTron

I've been thinking the exact same thing. The rear seat would have to effectively become two bucket type seats to accommodate the huge center hump to pass the axle through. The trunk would have to become much more shallow for the giant SH-AWD rear differential and axles. The rear suspension would need to be totally re-engineered. In essence, it would become a completely different animal.

I just don't see that happening for a car that will have relatively limited production. This is why I brought up the idea of an SH-FWD a few pages ago. Apparently Honda has done this already with the Prelude Type-SH and the reviews were glowing. Car and Driver claimed it made the car handle almost like a RWD. Personally, I could settle for a turboed FWD with a computer controlled differential. RWD and especially AWD eat so much horsepower anyway.

WRT to the delay of the Type-S. Yeah, you've got a legitimate gripe but I don't think you're situation is representative of most people's. I think by and large, a lot of these people are bitching because they want to bitch and aren't realistically considering a new TSX in the near future anyway. I mean if you have the choice of a BMW or Audi as so many are claiming they do, why are they looking at the TSX anyway? Just look at the price difference, these cars are only competitive with the TSX if you're willing to make concessions that the whiners are very much not. If you want more car than you'll ever be able to use, you're barking up the wrong tree with Honda.

Ibn Rushd

I'm really sure about it, and i have a couple of very good friends in Ottawa and Toronto who are working there and are letting me know for sure. So far they've all confirmed the same things.

As for the IS250, it was my friend driving it, and i was driving my EL. Now in all fairness, he TOLD ME, he was pushing it hard in the corner, but it had more , and i know i was using everything i had. So my assumption is that when you really push the IS, it should take me out. (Sorry i should have mentioned that, i meant to)

I don't get as much understeer as the TSX or TL because of the lack of power to the wheels, and usually by then, it's using everything through the corner. I've only experienced understeer once, but it took a LOT out to do it.

The only reason i've found that i can keep up in the corner is because of my lack of power. Stupid i know, but me using all my power still doesn't cause my car to understeer unless it's a VERY sharp corner, and i believe it's because that since i don't have that much horsepower to the ground, the i take the turn at the cars full potential. I've tried it with the TL as well, going into a corner, i shift up, and drop the revs, now it may not be true, but i truly feel that i take the corner more planted and with less understeer and actually a bit faster..and as i come out of the corner, if there is enough left, i'll downshift for the starting of the straight.

But i'm 95% sure that if you had a proper driver at the wheel of the IS...i'm gone. So in all fairness yeah the IS should do it.

But the one thing to realize is that if both drivers are amateurs, it should not make much of a difference.

Either way, even though i'm telling you to calm down and giving you my opinions, you're right it's still just opinions..but my point is wait until it launches at least to go off the handle. Just because it dropped 4 hp, the torque may have actually made up for it, so sure the car may not be faster, but it probably isn't slower either.

I run my own business, and i can't believe that compared to me a business giant (Honda) would bring out a SLOWER car without having a faster one as well.

Personally i'd prefer a 3.0 or 3.2 V6 in the TSX over the Turbo. But none of my friends actually know which one it's going to be (i.e turbo or V6).

L1StarTSX

Owning a few high HP and torque vehicles besides the TSX, I am aware this isnt the only messure. I have a 445+HP car that gets 27MPG now on highway, pretty sure that is good for the environment. MY point is, this is the ONE messure I would have liked to have seen increased, I am happy with the TSX aside from that and the drivetrain.

Everyone that loves the TSX say that is the main shortcoming, the HP/torque. I dont think us guys that have owned the TSX since the early days bought it for its HP and torque monster-like abilities.

And WOW, paddle shifters?? I had that on my 04 BMW, so 4 years later I can get that on this new "improved" acura? It's more or less a moot point with me now, the next small lux sedan I buy is going to have 290 or more HP. SO that leaves options that dont include the TSX. I could have overlooked 50HP for AWD or RWD...maybe if the car looked better.

jwood_06TSX

In all honesty, who wants paddle shifters on a car that only has 201HP and 174TQ?!?!?!?!?!

As soon as you shift our TSX and it leaves VTEC, the power is like istantaneously gone. So paddle shifters wouldn't really give me the effect they are intended to do so



paddle shifters on the TL-S were fun but they were even more fun on my buddies 335i coupe!!

LukeaTron

If you're looking at upwards of 290 HP, the TSX should never have even figured in your possibilities. You can be sure that even the Type-S won't come close to that. What's TL-S putting out? Isn't it like 285? Why would you ever have thought that Honda would out of the blue throw out a RWD that isn't a balls out sports car?

Your expectations are so far from reality that there was no other possible outcome than disappointment.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Those of you who have been around a while know that I am one of the staunchest defenders of the TSX. I loved everything about the current generation car. So much so that I have owned 2 of them. My family is about as loyal a buyer for Acura as any manufacturer could wish for, having owned in the last 15 years eight Acuras. I personally have had 3 Acuras and I have resisted going to other brands largely because no matter what I drove, the Acuras always had the best balance of driving dynamics, interior ergonomics, comfort, driving feel, technology, and value. The fact that it was an attractive looking car was absolutely a plus as well.

But you know that Acura has failed miserably when even a loyal family such as mine decides that none of us is interested in the next generation of Acura cars. My brother, who currently has an older Accord, is more enamored by the Golf GTI than he is by the offerings from Acura. My mother, who has an RL, saw the refreshed design and wrote it off completely from being her next car, which she will be looking to get within the next few months. My dad is ready to trade his MDX in for a Cadillac CTS. Even I find the new Audi A4, due in fall of this you, much more intriguing. When a family that owns 4 cars from the same manufacturer suddenly decides that nothing that manufacturer offers is of interest seems to clearly indicate that Acura and Honda are doing absolutely nothing for current buyers.

Some of you seem to be okay with Acura keeping this TSX as the status quo. However, as a whole new design, it really does not offer anything that is hugely appealing. Sure the price will be good. Sure the manual transmission will be the best feeling of any other car in the segment. But honestly, the lack of many features that other manufacturers are starting to offer as standard is beginning to become tiresome. For an MMC, I can forgive that. For a FMC, I cannot.

My expectations for the TSX were not that it would be a huge departure from the current car. However, I did expect Acura to at least maintain its tradition of handsome and timeless exterior designs. I did expect Acura to offer a more competitive engine package. I did expect there to be some sort of advancement in the drivetrain technology that was used on the vehicle. Unfortunately, Acura has failed rather miserably in all respects. Plus, they made the cardinal mistake of making the car even bigger, which honestly, was the last thing I wanted in a car.

So unless Acura decides to do the smart thing and offer up news of the Type-S, which by itself will not be enough to sway me from moving to another brand, they can pretty much count me as a previous customer. I have loved my TSX and it really has been the best car I have ever owned. I did not have the problems that many others here have experienced and the ownership experience has been one of the best I have experienced. But my loyalty is based on merit and unfortunately, Honda and Acura have proven that they are not interested in buyers like me.

Ibn Rushd

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3215

Sorry folks, it looks like no one is getting a turbo TSX any time soon.

And with the above post, we're in the same boat.

EL, TL, RL and MDX...and all five of us (two Tls) have decided to go elsewhere. I might be protecting Acura but it's false hope and a bit of devils advocate. But other than that...we're all looking at BMW and Audi now.

GrayTSX05

I think the design of the new TSX has started growing on me. When I looked at it at the first time, I also hated the front design of the car, but after a while I like it. I looks mean, more sporty and looks like this car eager to go fast. If you compare to the current TSX side by side, the new TSX looks much sportier and looks much meaner to me.

TheDukeZip

Ok but that interview was over a year ago, so it doesn't necessarily mean anything today. I am really hoping for a TSX Type S but with all the bad press the new TSX is getting with the spec. leak they would be letting us know right away if there was going to be a Type S as well. We can still

Ibn Rushd

Oooooooops. Crap, okay okay, my wrong on that one. I have to learn to read the dates...

mltk53

ok well, let me finally say something.
i have always been a fan of acuras ever since the legends came out. i have always love their design, features, name and pretty much everything about them. though in the past years, many competitors has offered more appealing numbers under the hood, acura has had me on their block for their outstanding standard features and technology, plus, i really like acuras interior designing.
the new 09 models, (not just the tsx) has been quite disappointing of course. every new detail i see and read does make me want to look away onto some brands. but as for the tsx, im only hoping and relying on the tsx-s. it better have some better looking lips/wheels or w.e to compensate for this well..u kno.. i mean what happened to like 1 or 2 months ago about the base having 220hp and type s having 260+? i just dont get it. i mean i do understand the power change due to the release of the type s, but they could have done better.

LukeaTron

That's the danger of speculating. Ever heard the phrase "take it with a grain of salt"?

tsxgoogs

Was there anymore word on the cl

datadr

Interesting find on Edmunds...

http://www.edmunds.com/acura/tsx/200...sandspecs.html

Under Engine, the list:

2.3L displacement
double overhead cam (DOHC)
inline 4 cylinder configuration
16 valves
variable valve timing
turbocharger

Sure sounds like the RDX motor or a version of it. Of course, this could have been speculative information posted months ago... But perhaps not?

They did take the time to update the picture on the same page to the 2009 TSX press photo. Perhaps all hope is not lost... yet. Unfortunately, the rest of the "specs" don't have much detail at all, so I'm guessing this is more speculative than fact.

GeorgeTSX

I wonder what Navigation system the 09 TSX will have? The same that the 08 RDX has or something newer?

neuronbob

Man, you guys have nothing to complain about.

Try having your MMC turn into a fuglymobile in the front like the new RL.

I like the look of the new TSX--the new corporate grille was clearly designed for the shape of the TSX. I'm pretty sure the driving dynamics won't change much. You guys are also getting a few more features. Hopefully the increased torque you guys get will be lower in the powerband. It won't be 2500 rpm as someone dreamed a few pages ago, not in an I4 engine, but one can always hope for lower than the current...

I am convinced that more people will still buy a TSX than will buy an RL.

Colin

What happens when you jump the gun....

rb1

I don't know where this urban legend came from. JD Power had the 2007 TSX sales figures as 48% men, 52% women, basically a wash...

ostrich

Hey, Neuronbob, I had such high hopes for the new RL and TSX but then the 2009 RL grille just killed me. Over a week later, I still have not got over it...

While I do agree that the TSX does look OK (and I don't even hate the Kitchenaid grille half as much as I do on the RL!!! LOL), I may pass on the new TSX simply because of one silly reason... I hate to have a "sibling" vehicle as ugly as the 2009 RL! That is going to be the joke of the industry (if it is not so already) and I simply don't want to have anything to do with it. Many of you probably thinks that this is ridiculous, but guess what? When you buy a premium brand, image is everything and I don't think that having a "flagship" vehicle like the 2009 RL helps at all. Call me vain, call me crazy, but this is reality. I am sure that many people think the same way too.

Now, if they have a turbo with SH-AWD in the TSX, I might just change my mind, but until then, the upcoming A4 looks more and more attractive to me...

LukeaTron

Your crazy. I hate to say it but if you're that obsessed with how people perceive you, Acura was never the right brand for you. Nor will it ever be.