distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

what is all this about making the car lower or dropping? do you mean when you hammer it the motor pushes downward?

Billy Sacco

I talked to them on live support. Complete joke and waste of time. I may try to pursue getting at least some of the labor back from my experience but what I am hearing around here does not sound too promising as far as their support. At this point I'm just done and would never buy anything from them again.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

At least once they get this worked out they will have a good fitment & application for the 6mt CL & that will make it easy to order from the 1st time for future customers.

That's if they will stock them & hopefully these we are getting are not 1 off's.

Mike

i didn't install mine so i can't really say. Mark?

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Front & rear installed. My front stock mount was in fact toast. Vibrations are there but nothing that is really bad at all.
Now just need the side mount & I'm good.
No howls or other strange noises. However I did notice the car does seem to sit lower. It may be an illusion or mental.

$260 install & it took 4 hours. No way I would have tried to do this on my own.

jproy

Glad to hear your install went well Fuzz! I don’t see how engine mounts could affect how the weight of the car sits on the suspension. This seems fishy to me! If anything you would only ever so slightly be changing the axle angles but that shouldn’t change anything. They have play so they can articulate. Same weight on the same springs with same suspension geometry, I don't get it. It’s got to be mental. If this is happening I would like to know how with the facts not theories.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I have a BIG question. Cause I may have to go back.
They left off the stock 6MT dampeners. The little shock looking things. Front & rear. Are those supposed to be left off?
I say no.

Billy Sacco

Well I am not pretending to know what the deal is but look at the design of the mounts. They pivot. The engine could be leaning a bit in either direction maybe. Now that I am only running the front and side innovative mount and oem in rear I hear a clunk when I floor it from a stop. I think its the front mount pivoting. Not sure will take a look later.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Right but on a 6mt there are additional engine dampeners attached to the block. The shop left these off.

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

i left mine on but i question their importance now that the mounts are much stiffer.

jproy

I don’t see a reason to leave them off. I don’t even see a reason to have removed them unless it was necessary to remove the mounts. They can be removed and installed in 30 min tops. I would go get all the parts from them if it doesn’t bother you or have them put them back on. I have not seen these new mounts, but they should be stiff enough to negate the need for the dampers but it cant hurt to have them either. They will still slightly dampen any sudden movement even thought they are poo anyway. I have NRG stiffies in place of the OEM dampers with my OEM engine mounts which I will be doing the polly fill on next week.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I have all the parts. I put the front back on just now. Easy 10 minutes. I'll let them install the rear back on Saturday. I don't have time to go back today.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

sorry if i missed it, thread is kind of jumbled, but does this mean you received the redesigned side mount from innovative? and did you get the longer bolts?

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

No. I have no idea what's going on with that. I have to call innovative tomorrow.

rp_guy

just got mine in, i'll have to call them soon.

rjurado_1215

call who? innovative or someone to install them? im freaking lost.

RUF87

UPDATE ON SIDE MOUNT & EXCESSIVE VIBRATION ISSUE:

I spoke with Innovative and Excelerate today (2/18/08).

Regarding the side mount, they are in the quality assurance phase now. Innovative is double checking everything to make sure that the manufacturing process will produce the correct product every time. It was my interpretation that if someone wasn't paying attention, they could weld the bracket in a manner that would result in it being out of specification. Note, there is no design problem.

Once the mounts are out of final inspection, Innovative will communicate through Excelerate that they are ready to replace the mounts for those of us who are effected by the problem. Once Excelerate posts that the new mounts are ready for shipping, you need to reply back to Excelerate that you need the new mount.
I expect a few more details once Excelerate get the word from Innovative, so please be patient . . . these mounts are worth it.

Regarding those of us who've experienced the excessive vibrations/grinding/growling/whatever noise, that problem will be addressed as well. And this is more related to the front mount than the rear, so all references here will be on the front mount. The reason is that it is taking most of the abuse, as I noted in my personal testing.

As you know, I've been trying all sorts of approaches to diagnosing the problem before going to Innovative with a complaint. I wanted to make sure it was something I or anyone else did when installing the mounts. This weekend I inserted some rubber bushings, and it improved it somewhat, but was limited by how thick of a spacer I could get.

The good news is, that we are pretty sure that we DID NOT do anything wrong during the install. That is as long as you installed the taller mount in the rear.

It turns out I was very close to defining the problem, and Innovative was able to discern the cause of the problem. If you recall my most recent note about the engine rotating up on the front mount, putting a lot of force on the top of the front mount, and transferring the force to the rear mount downward.

I hope I remember this part correctly
As it turns out, this is part of the problem. The other part is that the Innovative Mount has a couple steel collars/plates within the mount bushing. As the torque is increased, the areas between the steel collars/plates and the center bolt are compressed, thereby reducing the bushing's effectiveness in reducing the vibration. This may or may not be a problem everyone of use will face. It'll be more pronounced in those of us putting more power to the ground. This is one of the reasons I was wanting to know what mods everyone had. It seems that most of us with headers and intake have the problem, but other may as this is a rule of thumb, not a case of always.

Anyway, so what do we do about that. Once the side mount issue is done, they will work on a couple of fix options. The option you choose will be determined by your personal preferences of ride vs performance.

As I understand it, those wanting a smoother ride will get the same red bushings, but without the steel collars/plates. It will still give you a superior mount, but with less vibration than the current red mount set up.

For those of that want to control the engine rotation, they will offer the GRAY bushing, which is the street/strip version. This set up should give us a vibration feel similar to the current red mount vibrations in gear. Which most of us have no really issue with. This set up will be slightly better than the current red mount offering at reducing/eliminating wheel hop, improving 0-60MPH, 0-60 foot times at the track and better steering feel.

Personally, my is that if you already have intake, exhaust, swaybars, springs and other mounts, I'm not sure why you'd have an issue with the modified gray bushing up front. That's what I intend to run on my TLS, which is my daily driver. If you're happy with the improved proved performance of the red, and will be happy with a slightly reduced result in managing wheel hop, but want the smoother idle, that's a personal choice.

All that said, please note. Innovative has a lot of other projects going on, and they are committed to making this right for us. Even though the side mount and excessive noise/vibration issue has been a pain, we need to realize that whenever you mod something, there is a cause and effect. And even those these were tested on Accords, our cars are not 100% identical, and neither are ours when you consider what mods one has verses another. Again, I was very impressed with my call and am just as excited as I was in the beginning to get these mounts on. If I'm loving the benefits now, I'm expecting to be that much happier once everything is resolved.

Lastly, they wanted to know if there was anything else we needed, besides the longer bolts for the side mount? Let me know or Excelerate know and we'll get them a consolidated list.

If anyone wants to talk about this in more detail, please PM with your mobile # and I'll call you.

Note: Innovative would like us to limit the calls on the current issues as they are being addressed, unless there is a new issue that needs to be raised.

Ruf

RUF87

Hey rjurado . . . you're in my neck of the woods. For right now, I'd sit tight and wait for the final word on the side mount. If you're unsure, send me a PM and we can meet up and I can see if your mount is similar to mine.

Oh, I forgot one item. Innovative is making a change to the way the center hole is positioned. It won't change the geometry or anything, but it will make it easier to install the bolt. At least that's what I understood.

Ruf

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

So they are working on smoother mounts yet sold everyone the red ones & most of us already paid $$ to get them installed? That doesn't do a lot of good.

I'm not getting anything bad art idle or low rpm. But I did notice that when I get on the car hard I'm getting all sort of harshness. Almost like the car is dragging something. I feel it in the seat & the steering wheel.
I'm not sure how this compares with everyone else. I don't have the new side mount in yet & the stock one is torn. I also don't have the rear 6mt dampener in place.

Billy Sacco

So does this mean they will swap out your current mount for the smoother ones if you wish? With a lot of projects going on I guess I shouldn't hold my breath as to when this is going to happen.

Never Summer

Hmm, once the new side mount is out as well as the gray front mount, I guess I'll give this a whirl. Thanks to you guys for keeping this updated.

RUF87

Regarding your "harshness" . . . I'm betting it's the same problem Mike, myself and a couple others are experiencing. Don't panic yet . . . I can't say for sure, but there may be some type of deal to work things out. We just need to take it one step at a time.

Ruf

RUF87

See comments on previous post. I'll be working with Excelerate and Innovative to see what they can come up with. I'm hoping they do an exhange for whoever wants the altered Red or Gray front mounts. They seem to be very customer satifaction oriented. I also get the impression that both Innovative and Excelerate want this fixed so others will jump on these mounts. It's gotta work . . . the OEM mounts are junk . . .

I think they have one guy who's dealing with our issue, which is why they asked us to not have everyone calling him until they're sure the problem is fixed. Makes sense, and I'll do my best to stay on top of this and keep you updated.

Ruf

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

It's weird. It didn't do it at first but now it's doing it. The entire car makes this grinding feel when vtec hits & the car is pulling. It may be just the way the mounts are transferring the power now. It would make sense that beacuse the mounts are so much stiffer, it's forcing the engine to stay in place & is causeing the added vibrations. Kind of the way VSA jerks the car back inline when you engage it.
I actually like it. The car does plant it's self well.

The 6MT always is going to be a bit more vibration happy because of the manual trans.

RUF87

It's not so much that the mounts are stiffer, it's the way they are designed and our motors torque backward, from front to rear. It puts a lot of pressure on the mounts and the center bolt presses harder against the steel collar insert. I'm going to wait for the fix and then we'll be happy campers, and I too love these mounts . . the runs sooo much better.

Ruf

yunginTL

Can i get the front and back installed by my mech and do the side myself later? You only need longer bolts for the side mounts correct? and im assuming that I will need a redesigned side mount?

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Yes that's what I did. Once I get teh replacment side mount I will be installing that.

So Ruf87,

I should not call to harass innovative then? Do they have a list of who they need to ship replacement mounts to? I'm sure no one wants to be left out that needs the replacement. As far as I can tell all we need are the longer bolts & the new mounts.

RUF87

Right, I don't think we'll gain much by harassing them. My thought is to work through Excelerate, and give him a list of us that got the side mounts. He will then work with Innovative on how the 2 of them want to manage the deal.

As for the longer bolts for the side mount, that is still my recommendation, and I think they will do that.

Ruf

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

those who have called innovative, how did they determine if your mount was part of the bad batch? i think i was one of the last to receive the mounts.

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

i was told that on the side mount the lower bracket is welded onto the "barrel" and it is offset on one edge by about 1/4". Tim said that this 1/4" offset was to be on the opposite side. I am confused by this explanation because I don't think shifting it that direction will cure the alignment issue. was anyone else told this explanation of the mistake, or any other version?

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I told them after it didn't fit. I think they ALL should be replaced.

Billy Sacco

I am wondering how the desgin issue with the front mount will affect other engine components in the long run. Anyone else who had just the front and side mount in notice a small clunk when WOT from a dead stop?

RUF87

Yeah, it's really hard to explain unless we get a diagram from Innovative showing what happened. I don't think we really need to know the exact details, but we need to know without question that the side mounts each of us have is either good or bad.

That said, don't take this to the bank, but I understood the side mount was going to be redesigned a little so that in the future there'll be no chance that the mount could be welded incorrectly. I also understood that there'll be a change to the positioning of the center bolt hole, and as a result Innovated would replace all side mounts. Again, don't take this to the bank until I get it confirmed from Excelerate.

Ruf

RUF87

Can't say for sure, but read my previous post on this subject. As for the front mount, there's nothing wrong with that mount that should cause any problems.

The only problems would be if they front and rear got mixed up and installed in reverse. The 2 main items to watch for when installing these 2 mounts is:

- The front mount is the shorter of the two
- the steel nipple pin is facing away from the engine, meaning that for the front mount the pin is closest to the radiator, and for the rear mount it's closest to the firewall.

In regard to the changes to the front mount I mentioned for those of us experiencing excessive vibrations in the dash, and harmonics that are felt through the floorboard and steering wheel. This will be an optional mount modification that we still need to work all the details out with Innovative and Excelerate. I think they will work with us because this is not a little problem, but an unacceptable one, so stay tuned.

Ruf

SPoolinspOON

iTrader: (5)

This is some good info. Stupid snow and rain has taken a delay on installing the mounts.

RUF87

Today's Update 2/21/08:

I spoke with Excelerate and he's working on getting us an update for the side and front mount. I'm expecting they should be close on the side mount. Either I or Excelerate will post an update as soon as we hear something.

Ruf

rp_guy

now i know there was demand for these, but i don't understand why innovative didn't just spend more time on the R&D (copy the OEM and then send them back to the owners).. instead of using us as the guinea pigs. would've saved everyone a lot of money.

Billy Sacco

Yeah and what about people that paid to have them installed? They will have to pay again to have them removed and have the "corrected" mount put in. I am probably getting out of my acura soon so you may see my mounts in the classifieds soon.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Just a small update:

I spoke to Innovative today. They have a CL in the shop and they were test fitting the side mount and also doing some aggressive driving/launching to discover any resonance/vibration issues. They said they will me back on Monday with more information and hopefully the finish of the new side mount.

yunginTL

What is the reason for new front mounts? is it the excess cabin vibration?