RUF87

Other than the side mount design problem, that possibly only a few of us have, and the installation I/we have screwed up, I love these mounts. The car is sooo much more responsive.

Bottom line, you can replace the front and rear without any design issues. Just be sure you read up on how to replace the rear mount. I've asked if anyone had a manual, but nothing so far.

I will say, if you do it yourself, becareful that you don't bend/break something while jacking up the engine. You may need to disconnect the exhaust and possibly some other compenents.

As for the side mount, wait until the problem has been completely resolved. And it's really an easy one to do. I took my new mount out and put the old one back on in less than 30 mins . . . now that I've done it a couple of times.

Ruf

Silvaccordex01

iTrader: (2)

The manual does not show you how to pull just the mounts out. Its very retarded. It only shows how to disconnect them from the engine for engine removal.

The install of the front and rear is rather easy on a 6 speed. For the rear you dont have to jack the engine up nearly as much as auto and not as many pita bolts to get too.Theres really only a few places to jack up the engine, and it absolulty should not mess up any of the exhaust components or headers. Just obviosuly dont place the jack under the header and use the header for engine support If you unsrue of where to place the jack, run down to an acura dealer or service center and ask them. Im sure they would be more than happy to tell you

SPoolinspOON

iTrader: (5)

I'm going to install the front myself and then take the rear to my work and have someone put it on a lift to see where the best place to remove the rear is. I would have thought that the bottem would be your best bet but everyone seems to have pulled it from the top. I'm going try to do very minor engine movement so I don't fawk something up when installing these. as for the side, I will see if its out of alignment and do it when my 105K comes soon...

cltypeSLOW

i really doubt yall bent the exhaust up, the whole thing from the headers back is mounted on rubber slings, it has a ton of play. UNLESS you jacked it up by the damn headers, which i hope you didnt....

RUF87

Nope, didn't do that . . .

I'm going to unbolt the mounts and jack the motor up until it reaches it's highest point. I will stop after each 'pump' and check for areas of contact. If I don't find anything, I don't know what to try. I don't have the old front and rear to put back in . . . besides, I've already removed the side, and unbolted the front and rear, and I still have tha horrible growling-roar.

Ruf

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Where are you guys getting bolts? I tried lowes, home depot, 3 autozones, & 2 pepboys with no luck.

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

ace hardware or any little hardware store will carry what you need. also you can look up a nut & bolt store in your town.

Silvaccordex01

iTrader: (2)

Did you hear back from innovative distorted?

RUF87

Humm, the Lowes by us carries some specialty bolts. Home Depot was a big 0.

I actually got mine from a local hardware store.

Ruf

RUF87

Oh, a quick status update . . . I'm going to fix that problem and make this work. I drove it today more than all of last 9 days.

In a word over the way the car feels and responds. Better than I expected, and what I was really hoping it would feel like. Well, everything except for the growl/roar issue. But it does make the car sound more like a road racer, which would be . . . if you could turn that feature on and off.

The shifts are so much firmer . . . I can actually feel them . . it isn't your father's Acura anymore. You can actually feel that more power is getting to the ground. I also think because it's front wheel drive, even the handling feels better.

I can't wait to get to the track.

Did I say I was

Ruf

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

nope. i probably will not hear from them till i pick up the phone and call.

RUF87

Well. . . . I removed the Innovative side mount and replaced it with the OEM that I reinforced with Polyurathane.

However, before replacing it I disconnected the front and rear mounts so I could jack the engine up again to see if anything could have been bent or otherwise. Well, the flex pipe section almost touched the frame, but nothing else. Didn't see any other part of the exhaust move or come in contact with the frame or otherwise.

I also checked the lines for the same, and nothing. Then I looked at the axels. The driver side seemed fine, and the passenger side too, but it is a 2 piece axel and it did seem to get streached and flex . . . so I'm not 100% that it's off the list. It looks like it has a bearing or something, so will see if I can pull it off this weekend . . just to make sure.

Has anyone had any luck in finding out the correct proceedure so we can compare notes?

Ruf

anthracitecl

iTrader: (7)

Some people have really serious problems.
well,I installed my front mount today. It was simple and smooth. After that I tried to install side mount. but there is no way I can put this on. The bolt holes of new mount are way off. so I just put original one back on. I'm gonna call Innovative tomorrow. I haven't installed rear one yet. I think I'm gonna do it this weekend. I hope there's nothing big problem.

Mike

i'll be replacing the innovative rear mount next week w/an oem mount. the vibrations are much better but the rear mount is to harsh for my daily driver. i'm going to miss the engine note when i nail it.

Silvaccordex01

iTrader: (2)

did you hear back? I still havent sent mine in yet, waiting to hear what they say back to you. I will try to call tim back tomorrow if you havent heard back yet.

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

ya i haven't heard anything and will call them tomorrow afternoon to check on progress.

SIRSIG

i see multiple post on same people...

not sure if Innovative redesign these mounts for the CL/TL, but it appears to me that they look the same as mine.

like Excellerate said, you can't get away from the vibration, heck my car even had an idle problem (feels like stalling) when i first got it in but right after 300-500 miles everything went smooth, vibration is still there but that doesn't annoy me. My only complain now is how to get my 60' down to sub 2.0

i'll be more concern about the side mount fitment. Accord 6th genners never got 'em at the first production so this is something new to me too

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I only got mine yesterday. I'm waiting for some call back from shops to install.

Question....

Are you supposed to put back the weight thing on the side mount? Could leaving it off cause or lesson vibrations?

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

ever put your car on a lift? what do think happens to the axles? i guarantee they flex more than what you just did. case in point, nothing is wrong with your axles.

typeR

just wanna mention ... when i pulled my rear mount i removed and left off those two huge blocks of rubber to the right of the rear mount (when facing the front of car) the rear mount came out so easy and those blocks of rubber ended up weight like 10lbs, im sure they are vibration dampeners

Silvaccordex01

iTrader: (2)

Did you get ahold of them? I tried calling but didnt get through.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Ok well add me to the side mount not fitting.
Pics:



Had the stock mount off & the new one in place in 10 minutes.
I put the stock back on & will call...
Tim at Innovative Phone # 714-524-5246
Also will need new bolts as well, I'll let Tim know all this on Monday.
My stock mount is torn anyway, I thought about leaving it off, but decided to put it on for now.
I also found out that the tech who installed my crank pulley stripped the rear bolt hole on the engine block for the mount bracket(one that goes on the engine)
I have no idea what to do about that.
I just wonder who's side mount actually fits? So far what 1 or 2? Out of 15 or so?
I would love to know why.

RUF87

Understand, but there is a difference between lifting the car by the frame and the wheels hanging down verses removing the motor mounts and jacking it up beyond a point where other compenents could be damaged. I also used to be a line mechanic, so I still remember some of this stuff . . . like I said, I jumped in to this without checking in to the correct proceedure . . . just got too excited

Anyway, after further analysis, I've ruled out anything drive train related. I'm 99 44/100s sure it's exhaust related. I'm just not sure I bent anything. It could just be the resonance of these XPS headers being transmitted throught the chassis and interior. I'll do some more checking before I try messing with the exhaust or replacing the rear mount. Since the OEM rear mount was in fair condition, I may just go with Innovative for the front and sides. But we'll see.

As for a current status, the vibrations in idle have already got better. In neutral it's really not noticable. It's just that loud noise under initial load and WOT throttle. It's too bad, because I'm really loving the solid feel on take-off, shifting and even a little bit in handling.

Ruf

RUF87

Note, it's not just the mounting bolt positioning that's off, the center bolt is off a bit as well. I messed up my power steering pump trying to get it to align. I've filled the side mount with polyurathane and reinstalled it and it seems fine.

Ruf

RUF87

Question:

Who has headers, and which ones? I'm trying to see what if any role headers play in the excessive noise.

Ruf

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

comptech headers. innovative front and rear installed with stock side mount.

drove a few more blocks yesterday. yes there is increased vibration and the motor seems louder but maybe that's just me not have driven the car since last october.

TCM 01 CL-S

CT headers here

Mike

ct headers as well

i have 300+ miles on the mounts. vibration isn't as bad while driving but still sux at stop lights and low rpms

jproy

I think I may get the front and side innovative mounts if they ever fix the side mount. I wouldnt be able to take crazy vibration like those with th rear are talking about. I know this may be slightly off topic but has anyone ever seen a failed OEM rear mount. I know the front and side fail all the time. Is OEM rear failure just as common?

TCM 01 CL-S

My rear one was broken and leaking fluid when they took it out.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Tim said to call back Thursday or Friday & he will have a new batch to ship out & will provide tracking.

So that's another 2 weeks till I get my replacement since it take 5 days to ship from CA to me.

Silvaccordex01

iTrader: (2)

So is he telling anybody else to send there old mounts back in? or just to call thursday and he'll send a new one?

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Just call end of week. I asked about sending it back & he said he'll work it out once he knows the new ones fit right.

Never Summer

Shouldn't Innovative be overnighting these one they're ready? People have had to wait long enough, I think...

RUF87

Okay, getting serious here.

I needed someone else to help look at the problem from different angles. Especially someone I trust, and can get behind the wheel and do as they're instructed . . . that leaves my wife out.

Anyway, I got with my little brother and we played around with it and that's when we noticed . . . the engine it lifting up from the front at least 1 1/2" to 2". I was like

We were basically powerbraking to about 2200 RPM and the front of the engine was coming way up. Like it still had the OEM mounts in it. I was very surprised to see the front mount giving some much. It was compressing the heck out if the top part of the front mount.

I then looked at the way the engine was moving up, and saw that part of the energy from that movement was being transferred back to the rear mount. I also know the excessive vibration and sound comes during initial acceleration (load/torque) and WOT. Okay, so what does this mean? I don't know for certain, but here is the theory we came up with.

When under load, the front of the engine lifts up. This energy is then transferred back to the rear mount, compressing it, essentially making the rear mount transfer more energy, in the form of engine harmonics (sound and vibrations). Since the rear and front mounts are both being compressed, making it harder, or say, reducing the effectiveness of the bushing to it's full job. In addition, the rear mount sits on a cross frame that is right below the firewall and dashboard. Basically, this effect is creating increased vibrations and sound through both front and rear mounts, but mostly to the rear. That's why as the load/torque is reduced and the stress on the mounts is reduced, so then is the sound and vibrations.

This makes further sense when you look at the condition of my mounts. The front was the worst, totally ripped apart. Next was the side, which was also badly damaged. Last was the rear, which was ruptured, but not torn or anything like that.

Well, how do we test this theory? I will talk to Excelerate and Innovative to review it, and then propose some testing. The initial thought is that we need an even harder mount up front to reduce how much the engine lifts up, thereby reducing the stress on the rear mount. While the front will add some initial vibration at idle, I don't know if it will be that much worse. And I don't have any problems with how it idles now . . . in neutral or gear.

I also would like to test this with an OEM mount in the rear. I don't believe the rear would have been ruined if the front was up to the job. This set up would also be to the liking of those that really want to retain as much of a OEM feel as possible.

As for the side mount, I would like to run the Innovative mount with either approach, but worst case I will use one with the DIY polyurethane approach.

Thoughts? I know it sounds weird, but when you see how much the engine still jumps up, you'll be as surprised as I was.

Ruf

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

you don't think the motor is going to move when you power brake? this is an unrealistic test as it shows no real driving conditions, maybe only from a stop. put the car on a dyno and run through the gears and then tell me how much the motor moves.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

On a dyno my engine didn't move all that much.

jproy

Why are none of you and Innovative concerned about the two trans mounts next to the driver side front wheel? To me it plays just as much of a role in keeping that sucker still. The engine and trans are basically one big block held down by four points the front, rear mount, the side and two small trans mounts. If my small trans mounts are busted I will be replacing them and regardless filling them and the side mount with Polly. The two small trans mounts seem to be just as flimsy as the side mount.

RUF87

I think you misunderstood the point here. Yes, it will move, but I didn't expect it to move as much as it did with these performance mounts.

As for being an unrealistic test, it was just one of many I did. And 2200 rpm is by no means extreme. You have as much torque applied from a standing start or a lot of WOT scenarios. All you have to do is look at the dyno results for these, and especially modded engines. I know when I had my dyno done while it was all stock, the engine jumped when full throttle was applied. Once the initial jump takes place, then the engine pretty much stays in a constant position. But as long as torque is being applied, the engine will transfer all that energy to the rear mount. Of that I am absolutely certain.

The question here isn't just about engine movement, it's about how much of the torque is being transferred to the rear mount during initial take-off and WOT conditions, which is the only time the problem raises its ugly head. And it's worse during the initial take-off than it is on WOT, which again would be consistent with the engine exhibiting the initial jump, going from zero to full load. Once your moving, you're backing off the throttle which then reduces the torque/load on the engine and as a result the problem goes away. It's really very basic physics.

Anyway, whether my thoughts on going with an even harder front mount will work or not remains to be seen. I can only hope it does, or something does. I kind of like the V8 road racer sound it makes, but not for me daily driver. And the vibrations under torque have got to go.

Ruf

RUF87

Hum, good point. Need to check those puppies out too. Perhaps they're busted too, which would put more stress on the other mounts.

Ruf