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Hockey: News and Discussion Thread
01-11-2012, 03:38 PM
The sizzle in the Steak
Snapshot....what a bunch of no name goaltenders
Year Goalie Team
1968 Gump Worsley Montreal Canadiens
1969 Gump Worsley Montreal Canadiens
1970 Gerry Cheevers Boston Bruins
1971 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1972 Gerry Cheevers Boston Bruins
1973 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1974 Bernie Parent Philadelphia Flyers
1975 Bernie Parent Philadelphia Flyers
1976 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1977 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1978 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1979 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1980 Billy Smith New York Islanders
1981 Billy Smith New York Islanders
1982 Billy Smith New York Islanders
1983 Billy Smith New York Islanders
1984 Grant Fuhr & Andy Moog Edmonton Oilers
1985 Grant Fuhr Edmonton Oilers
1986 Patrick Roy Montreal Canadiens
1987 Grant Fuhr Edmonton Oilers
1988 Grant Fuhr Edmonton Oilers
1989 Mike Vernon Calgary Flames
1990 Bill Ranford Edmonton Oilers
1991 Tom Barrasso Pittsburgh Penguins
1992 Tom Barrasso Pittsburgh Penguins
1993 Patrick Roy Montreal Canadiens
1994 Mike Richter New York Rangers
1995 Martin Brodeur New Jersey Devils
1996 Patrick Roy Colorado Avalanche
1997 Mike Vernon Detroit Red Wings
1998 Chris Osgood Detroit Red Wings
1999 Eddie Belfour Dallas Stars
2000 Martin Brodeur New Jersey Devils
2001 Patrick Roy Colorado Avalanche
2002 Dominik Hasek Detroit Red Wings
2003 Martin Brodeur New Jersey Devils
2004 Nikolai Khabibulin Tampa Bay Lightning
2005 None No Team
2006 Cam Ward Carolina Hurricanes
2007 J.S. Giguere Anaheim Ducks
2008 Chris Osgood Detroit Red Wings
2009 Marc-Andre Fleury Pittsburgh Penguins
1968 Gump Worsley Montreal Canadiens
1969 Gump Worsley Montreal Canadiens
1970 Gerry Cheevers Boston Bruins
1971 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1972 Gerry Cheevers Boston Bruins
1973 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1974 Bernie Parent Philadelphia Flyers
1975 Bernie Parent Philadelphia Flyers
1976 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1977 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1978 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1979 Ken Dryden Montreal Canadiens
1980 Billy Smith New York Islanders
1981 Billy Smith New York Islanders
1982 Billy Smith New York Islanders
1983 Billy Smith New York Islanders
1984 Grant Fuhr & Andy Moog Edmonton Oilers
1985 Grant Fuhr Edmonton Oilers
1986 Patrick Roy Montreal Canadiens
1987 Grant Fuhr Edmonton Oilers
1988 Grant Fuhr Edmonton Oilers
1989 Mike Vernon Calgary Flames
1990 Bill Ranford Edmonton Oilers
1991 Tom Barrasso Pittsburgh Penguins
1992 Tom Barrasso Pittsburgh Penguins
1993 Patrick Roy Montreal Canadiens
1994 Mike Richter New York Rangers
1995 Martin Brodeur New Jersey Devils
1996 Patrick Roy Colorado Avalanche
1997 Mike Vernon Detroit Red Wings
1998 Chris Osgood Detroit Red Wings
1999 Eddie Belfour Dallas Stars
2000 Martin Brodeur New Jersey Devils
2001 Patrick Roy Colorado Avalanche
2002 Dominik Hasek Detroit Red Wings
2003 Martin Brodeur New Jersey Devils
2004 Nikolai Khabibulin Tampa Bay Lightning
2005 None No Team
2006 Cam Ward Carolina Hurricanes
2007 J.S. Giguere Anaheim Ducks
2008 Chris Osgood Detroit Red Wings
2009 Marc-Andre Fleury Pittsburgh Penguins
01-11-2012, 03:55 PM
Senior Moderator
Why do you have to go bringing up facts to support an argument? 
01-11-2012, 03:59 PM
Senior Moderator
BTW - Yumchah has seen those stats before and balked. Its too late for him. Neimi has clouded his judgement.
01-11-2012, 04:28 PM
The sizzle in the Steak
dom, what are you talking about?!?!?!
All those goaltenders on that list are hack no-name goaltenders.
All those goaltenders on that list are hack no-name goaltenders.
01-11-2012, 05:02 PM
Senior Moderator
But, in all seriousness, I still maintain that the League has evolved to the point where a big-shot goalie is not the one-solution to winning the Cup. You can do it with a strong defense (which was what I was talking about during Chicago's Cup year) and as long as the goaltending is serviceable, it can work.
01-11-2012, 05:35 PM
The sizzle in the Steak
Well, then...your Kings have no chance to win a Cup ever. Quick's a no-name since he has not won a Cup yet or won any NHL Trophies (i.e. Vezina). Sorry.
But, in all seriousness, I still maintain that the League has evolved to the point where a big-shot goalie is not the one-solution to winning the Cup. You can do it with a strong defense (which was what I was talking about during Chicago's Cup year) and as long as the goaltending is serviceable, it can work.
But, in all seriousness, I still maintain that the League has evolved to the point where a big-shot goalie is not the one-solution to winning the Cup. You can do it with a strong defense (which was what I was talking about during Chicago's Cup year) and as long as the goaltending is serviceable, it can work.
Beats head against wall......You still have no understanding....even after all this time.
We have and always will be saying that a goaltender with an established top tier record of achievement wins a cup. Quick IS an established top tier goaltender.
One does not need the Vezina.....or a Stanley Cup (which is laughable because one has to win a cup for the first time...ala Roy, Ranford, Eddie the Eagle...et al who were excellent goaltenders before they won the cup).
Nobody ever said that the one and only solution to winning a cup is a big name goaltender. It is one of the MAJOR ingredients needed to win a cup....and facts/stats/history has proven that time and time again.
Nobody believes that you can win a cup with a Vezina goaltender between the pipes and AHL scrubs on D and forward.
...but to say front loaded forwards and top D mixed with a AHL scrub between the pipes will win you the cup is nothing short of crazy.
Sure you can bet the 00 on the roulette wheel, but you will lose over and over again.....but hit it once in a blue moon. The smart money is on odd/even - red/black. The odds and the math are with you.
Same for goaltending.
Next are you going to argue that 2+2 = 3?
01-11-2012, 06:39 PM
Senior Moderator
I'm just in the boat where you don't need a $6M goalie to win a Cup. That's all I'm saying.
I was being my usual self when I was yammering about a Cup ring and Vezina. But, my point about name-brand goalie is more of a guy who commands significant cap space. Hence, the $6M mark as an example.
I think the Detroit model works and believe it is a viable way to win it all. Chicago proved it worked with Niemi and I think they are using that same formula again going forward with Crawford, who is generally untested except for one playoff series last year. That's all.
You guys made it seem I was a lunatic to think this...well, whatever. Let's see how the namebrand goalies pan out with Philly and Washington (i.e. Bryzgalov and Vokoun).
I was being my usual self when I was yammering about a Cup ring and Vezina. But, my point about name-brand goalie is more of a guy who commands significant cap space. Hence, the $6M mark as an example.
I think the Detroit model works and believe it is a viable way to win it all. Chicago proved it worked with Niemi and I think they are using that same formula again going forward with Crawford, who is generally untested except for one playoff series last year. That's all.
You guys made it seem I was a lunatic to think this...well, whatever. Let's see how the namebrand goalies pan out with Philly and Washington (i.e. Bryzgalov and Vokoun).
01-11-2012, 08:34 PM
Senior Moderator
Sid on the trip with the Pens: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=384802
01-12-2012, 08:44 AM
Senior Moderator
I'm just in the boat where you don't need a $6M goalie to win a Cup. That's all I'm saying.
I was being my usual self when I was yammering about a Cup ring and Vezina. But, my point about name-brand goalie is more of a guy who commands significant cap space. Hence, the $6M mark as an example.
I think the Detroit model works and believe it is a viable way to win it all. Chicago proved it worked with Niemi and I think they are using that same formula again going forward with Crawford, who is generally untested except for one playoff series last year. That's all.
You guys made it seem I was a lunatic to think this...well, whatever. Let's see how the namebrand goalies pan out with Philly and Washington (i.e. Bryzgalov and Vokoun).
I was being my usual self when I was yammering about a Cup ring and Vezina. But, my point about name-brand goalie is more of a guy who commands significant cap space. Hence, the $6M mark as an example.
I think the Detroit model works and believe it is a viable way to win it all. Chicago proved it worked with Niemi and I think they are using that same formula again going forward with Crawford, who is generally untested except for one playoff series last year. That's all.
You guys made it seem I was a lunatic to think this...well, whatever. Let's see how the namebrand goalies pan out with Philly and Washington (i.e. Bryzgalov and Vokoun).
01-12-2012, 08:51 AM
And Dom screaming a year ago that a Vokun was needed, a big name goalie. See where that has gotten them this year.
01-12-2012, 12:07 PM
The sizzle in the Steak
I'm just in the boat where you don't need a $6M goalie to win a Cup. That's all I'm saying.
I was being my usual self when I was yammering about a Cup ring and Vezina. But, my point about name-brand goalie is more of a guy who commands significant cap space. Hence, the $6M mark as an example.
I think the Detroit model works and believe it is a viable way to win it all. Chicago proved it worked with Niemi and I think they are using that same formula again going forward with Crawford, who is generally untested except for one playoff series last year. That's all.
You guys made it seem I was a lunatic to think this...well, whatever. Let's see how the namebrand goalies pan out with Philly and Washington (i.e. Bryzgalov and Vokoun).
I was being my usual self when I was yammering about a Cup ring and Vezina. But, my point about name-brand goalie is more of a guy who commands significant cap space. Hence, the $6M mark as an example.
I think the Detroit model works and believe it is a viable way to win it all. Chicago proved it worked with Niemi and I think they are using that same formula again going forward with Crawford, who is generally untested except for one playoff series last year. That's all.
You guys made it seem I was a lunatic to think this...well, whatever. Let's see how the namebrand goalies pan out with Philly and Washington (i.e. Bryzgalov and Vokoun).
01-12-2012, 12:54 PM
Senior Moderator
01-12-2012, 12:59 PM
Senior Moderator
01-12-2012, 01:36 PM
The sizzle in the Steak
Nice to see Quick get recognized by the league for his great work between the pipes
01-12-2012, 02:29 PM
Senior Moderator
And Brian Elliot is an all-star goalie too. I guess he's namebrand now. Blues for the Cup!
Last edited by Yumcha; 01-12-2012 at 02:32 PM.
01-12-2012, 02:31 PM
Senior Moderator
And why is Jognoy not on the All-Star or All-Star Rookie roster? 
01-12-2012, 02:31 PM
Senior Moderator
01-12-2012, 02:32 PM
Senior Moderator
Only 3. And 2 of them deserve it. The one who doesn't deserve was also....
PHANEUF VOTED MOST OVERRATED PLAYER IN NHL PLAYER POLL
Despite the fact the Toronto Maple Leafs are currently sitting in a playoff spot, their captain Dion Phaneuf isn't getting much love from his peers around the league.
Sports Illustrated polled 161 NHL players asking them to name the most overrated player in the league and Phaneuf topped the list.
Joining Phaneuf were Alex Ovechkin (second), Scott Gomez (third), Roberto Luongo (fourth) and Dany Heatley (fifth).
Phaneuf wasn't the only Leaf to be named to the unflattering list, as teammate Mike Komisarek came in 10th.
"Yes, players dumb enough to participate in polls designed to crap on fellow NHLPA members are not very bright," Leafs general manager Brian Burke told the Toronto Star. "I am thrilled to have both players on my team.
"And by the way? Anyone who wants to tell Dion that in person should fly to Ottawa in about two weeks," Burke added.
Ottawa is the site of this year's NHL All-Star game where Phaneuf will appear after being one of six players voted in by the fans.
Phaneuf is sixth among defencemen in total goals and points this year, with seven goals and 28 points points on the season and his point totals makes him the third highest scoring Leaf behind Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupul.
The news is nothing new for Phaneuf, who was voted the most overrated by a similar Sports Illustrated poll in 2010.
"A very simple answer for an anonymous poll," said Leafs assistant GM Dave Poulin, "is that people tend to vote for players they don't like to play against."
Rounding out the top 10 in the Sports Illustrated poll were Ilya Kovalchuk (sixth), Vincent Lecavalier (seventh), Jay Bouwmeester (eighth), Ryan Kesler (ninth) and Komisarek. In addition to Bouwmeester, the Calgary Flames also had Jarome Iginla and Olli Jokinen on the list at 12th and 14th, respectively.
Despite the fact the Toronto Maple Leafs are currently sitting in a playoff spot, their captain Dion Phaneuf isn't getting much love from his peers around the league.
Sports Illustrated polled 161 NHL players asking them to name the most overrated player in the league and Phaneuf topped the list.
Joining Phaneuf were Alex Ovechkin (second), Scott Gomez (third), Roberto Luongo (fourth) and Dany Heatley (fifth).
Phaneuf wasn't the only Leaf to be named to the unflattering list, as teammate Mike Komisarek came in 10th.
"Yes, players dumb enough to participate in polls designed to crap on fellow NHLPA members are not very bright," Leafs general manager Brian Burke told the Toronto Star. "I am thrilled to have both players on my team.
"And by the way? Anyone who wants to tell Dion that in person should fly to Ottawa in about two weeks," Burke added.
Ottawa is the site of this year's NHL All-Star game where Phaneuf will appear after being one of six players voted in by the fans.
Phaneuf is sixth among defencemen in total goals and points this year, with seven goals and 28 points points on the season and his point totals makes him the third highest scoring Leaf behind Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupul.
The news is nothing new for Phaneuf, who was voted the most overrated by a similar Sports Illustrated poll in 2010.
"A very simple answer for an anonymous poll," said Leafs assistant GM Dave Poulin, "is that people tend to vote for players they don't like to play against."
Rounding out the top 10 in the Sports Illustrated poll were Ilya Kovalchuk (sixth), Vincent Lecavalier (seventh), Jay Bouwmeester (eighth), Ryan Kesler (ninth) and Komisarek. In addition to Bouwmeester, the Calgary Flames also had Jarome Iginla and Olli Jokinen on the list at 12th and 14th, respectively.
01-12-2012, 04:13 PM
The sizzle in the Steak
01-12-2012, 04:30 PM
Well he's given up five or more goals more than I want to count this year. With some of those goals being something a 12 yr old would have blocked. A stone cold "big name" goalie is suppose to help when other things are crippled.
01-12-2012, 08:48 PM
chips and smokes, lets go
Mike Cammalleri pulled off the bench in the middle of the game versus the Bruins and sent back to the hotel. Rumor is that he's been traded.
Looks like he's headed back to Calgary. For Rene Bourque?
Looks like he's headed back to Calgary. For Rene Bourque?
Last edited by herbalist; 01-12-2012 at 08:58 PM.
01-12-2012, 09:34 PM
Trolling Canuckistan
Kinda funny, Jack Edwards was commenting on how they hadn't seen him on the ice or the bench in a long time and said how it'll be bad for Montreal if it was an injury. About 3 seconds later, he says, "we're getting word from the truck that he was traded."
I've heard of players getting benched half way through the game for poor performance, but traded?
With any luck PK Subban will be getting a nice unpaid vacation for his play tonight courtesy of a Shannaban.
01-12-2012, 10:09 PM
Senior Moderator
01-12-2012, 10:58 PM
chips and smokes, lets go
Knee-jerk reaction by the Habs IMO. I didn't think his comments were so out of line. Sometimes you need to call out your teammates, but then again, those comments should probably be made behind closed doors. Who's part of the leadership group on this team? No one else seems willing to take the initiative. Anyways...the real problem (Gauthier) still exists.
01-12-2012, 11:05 PM
Trolling Canuckistan
Knee-jerk reaction by the Habs IMO. I didn't think his comments were so out of line. Sometimes you need to call out your teammates, but then again, those comments should probably be made behind closed doors. Who's part of the leadership group on this team? No one else seems willing to take the initiative. Anyways...the real problem (Gauthier) still exists.
01-13-2012, 02:48 AM
chips and smokes, lets go
If a trade was so close to happening, he wouldn't have played tonight. The fact that he was pulled out in the middle of the game tells me that they were not even in talks with the Flames prior to puck drop. Why would they risk injury if a trade was so close? No doubt his decline in production was a factor, but I think his comments didn't go over well and gave the Habs extra motivation to move him.
01-13-2012, 02:53 AM
chips and smokes, lets go
01-13-2012, 08:09 AM
Senior Moderator
01-13-2012, 08:54 AM
Trolling Canuckistan
If a trade was so close to happening, he wouldn't have played tonight. The fact that he was pulled out in the middle of the game tells me that they were not even in talks with the Flames prior to puck drop. Why would they risk injury if a trade was so close? No doubt his decline in production was a factor, but I think his comments didn't go over well and gave the Habs extra motivation to move him.
As I said, his ice time had been diminishing under the new coach, they were working on moving him since Cunneyworth took over behind the bench. This wasn't something they just decided to do after his comments, I'm sure the comments didn't please anyone on Montreal but I highly doubt that they made their first call to Calgary after the puck drop last night and worked the whole deal out in the first intermission.
01-13-2012, 08:58 AM
Trolling Canuckistan
And seriously, how much of a pansy is PK Subban. Throws the elbow to the head and turtles when Ferrence comes over to address it. Ferrence is literally trying to lift him up and make him answer for it and Subban won't get up.
I'm hoping Shanny gives him 5 for the hit to the head, 2 for being a pussy and permanantly revokes his man card (meaning he can only play for Montreal or Vancouver for the rest of his career).
Last edited by black label; 01-13-2012 at 09:00 AM.
01-13-2012, 09:28 AM
Senior Moderator
I doubt the trade was made in the first period, I'm sure the Habs and Flames had some discussions over the last few weeks or days like a lot of teams do. But there's no question his comments expedited the process. And at least 1 GM said he had no idea Camelleri was on the block.
In the end Gautheir will be gone and the Habs will be starting fresh next year.
In the end Gautheir will be gone and the Habs will be starting fresh next year.
01-13-2012, 09:35 AM
Senior Moderator
McKenzie of TSN sizes up the trade: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=384950
Cliffs: The trade is not as lopsided as one thinks. Bourque is actually close to Calamari's production.
Cliffs: The trade is not as lopsided as one thinks. Bourque is actually close to Calamari's production.
01-13-2012, 09:52 AM
2008 Acura TL
McKenzie of TSN sizes up the trade: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=384950
Cliffs: The trade is not as lopsided as one thinks. Bourque is actually close to Calamari's production.
Cliffs: The trade is not as lopsided as one thinks. Bourque is actually close to Calamari's production.
fried?
01-13-2012, 10:22 AM
The sizzle in the Steak
Squid ran his mouth, and got shipped out. 
What a mess in Montreal.
What a mess in Montreal.
01-13-2012, 10:24 AM
The sizzle in the Steak
I've seen some horrible officiating over the years...but wow.....last nights Kings V Stars was one of the worst in quite some time.
01-13-2012, 10:30 AM
Was it as bad as the Winter Classic?
01-13-2012, 11:00 AM
01-13-2012, 11:46 AM
chips and smokes, lets go
Why would you pull one of your top forwards out of a game when he is still one of YOUR top players? They had been working on moving him for weeks, what are they supposed to do just bench him for the whole time? Do you really think that any player who may be traded just gets benched until the trade goes through? I would guess that the trade was in the works and was finalized during the game which is why he got pulled. When he was no longer a Hab, he got pulled out of the game.
As I said, his ice time had been diminishing under the new coach, they were working on moving him since Cunneyworth took over behind the bench. This wasn't something they just decided to do after his comments, I'm sure the comments didn't please anyone on Montreal but I highly doubt that they made their first call to Calgary after the puck drop last night and worked the whole deal out in the first intermission.
As I said, his ice time had been diminishing under the new coach, they were working on moving him since Cunneyworth took over behind the bench. This wasn't something they just decided to do after his comments, I'm sure the comments didn't please anyone on Montreal but I highly doubt that they made their first call to Calgary after the puck drop last night and worked the whole deal out in the first intermission.