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Hockey: News and Discussion Thread
2008 Acura TL
The last game was back in January. This is basically September. 8 months x 30 days = 240 days. Season starts in another month... so what's going to change in 30 days that hasn't in the last 240?
It doesn't look good. Although I have seen video of him skating and shooting but he is not cleared for contact.
Whatever is the best long term thing for him, the Pens should do. Even if he's out all year, rather have him at 100% for another 15 years than have his career cut short from concussions.
Senior Moderator
^ Well, good thing Cooke plays for your team. Head-hunting Crosby won't be too bad.
chips and smokes, lets go
There was an article in the Toronto Star yesterday on why Crosby should retire.
http://www.thestar.com/article/10433...uld-retire-now
Retirement is obviously the last thing anyone wants to see come of all this, but I think that you really have to consider your long term health when talking about head injuries. Although I'm sure no one thought his career would end like this, he has nothing left to prove. That being said, I hope he is able to come back and return the the level where he last played.
I agree with Rounder, I don't expect to see Sid in game action anytime soon. If he was making progress, we would all be hearing about it. The fact that there seems to be some secrecy regarding what's really going on with his summer training tells me that he is not close to returning. It's really tragic.
http://www.thestar.com/article/10433...uld-retire-now
Retirement is obviously the last thing anyone wants to see come of all this, but I think that you really have to consider your long term health when talking about head injuries. Although I'm sure no one thought his career would end like this, he has nothing left to prove. That being said, I hope he is able to come back and return the the level where he last played.
I agree with Rounder, I don't expect to see Sid in game action anytime soon. If he was making progress, we would all be hearing about it. The fact that there seems to be some secrecy regarding what's really going on with his summer training tells me that he is not close to returning. It's really tragic.
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There was an article in the Toronto Star yesterday on why Crosby should retire.
http://www.thestar.com/article/10433...uld-retire-now
Retirement is obviously the last thing anyone wants to see come of all this, but I think that you really have to consider your long term health when talking about head injuries. Although I'm sure no one thought his career would end like this, he has nothing left to prove. That being said, I hope he is able to come back and return the the level where he last played.
I agree with Rounder, I don't expect to see Sid in game action anytime soon. If he was making progress, we would all be hearing about it. The fact that there seems to be some secrecy regarding what's really going on with his summer training tells me that he is not close to returning. It's really tragic.
http://www.thestar.com/article/10433...uld-retire-now
Retirement is obviously the last thing anyone wants to see come of all this, but I think that you really have to consider your long term health when talking about head injuries. Although I'm sure no one thought his career would end like this, he has nothing left to prove. That being said, I hope he is able to come back and return the the level where he last played.
I agree with Rounder, I don't expect to see Sid in game action anytime soon. If he was making progress, we would all be hearing about it. The fact that there seems to be some secrecy regarding what's really going on with his summer training tells me that he is not close to returning. It's really tragic.
Retire Sid!
I too hope he can return and be what he once was, however I'm worried and skeptical. Not to mention, like I said above, his head being a bigger target now really worries me.
chips and smokes, lets go
He didn't say that Sid was retiring, he was making points as to why he should consider it. Imagine Sid was your brother or your son, would you want him to potentially risk his future quality of life to pad his stats? He's done it all and has nothing left to prove.
The sizzle in the Steak
If Crosby retires I will blame the league forever...because of this stupid rule single handedly destroyed his life/career.
Non-fighting cheap-shot artists that hide behind the instigator rule: rejoice, for you thugs will have destroyed another icon of the game.
Non-fighting cheap-shot artists that hide behind the instigator rule: rejoice, for you thugs will have destroyed another icon of the game.
2008 Acura TL
I think the main reason for the secrecy is ticket sales for away games. The pens have over 200 straight sell outs at home even without 71/87. They help sell out away games and if word gets out about Crosby not being able to play, a lot less people will be going to games.
chips and smokes, lets go
And league would rather look into gimmicky rules like no icing the puck on the pk. They need to do a better job protecting the players. Shanahan has already come out and said that he will be handing out longer suspensions. Hopefully that has an impact.
The sizzle in the Steak
Suspensions after the fact do nothing to prevent cheapshots IMHO.
There is no fear of retribution anymore for a cheapshot.
Until a player knows that he will have to tango for a cheapshot, nothing will change.
There is no fear of retribution anymore for a cheapshot.
Until a player knows that he will have to tango for a cheapshot, nothing will change.
Senior Moderator
Look at the NFL. They don't have such thing as instigators but they have put in solid efforts in defining rules, penalties, and fines for certain hits on the field. And you can't say that the NFL is less violent per se than the NHL.
Part of hockey's problem is some very vague rules compounded with IMO poor judgment in adjusting to how the game has evolved with: equipment and hockey players of today. The players are simply bigger than ever and so, the League has done a poor job to adjust rules and even the rink size to compensate for that...and voila, you have concussions being an ongoing problem. The icing rule needs to change too given how players are just so freaking faster now...add to that their bigger size and the "armor" they have on...Yeah. Asking for it.
Yes, I agree the instigator issue also has added to the problems...but, I just don't quite agree it is the one-fix to the concussion problem either.
chips and smokes, lets go
Hitting them in their pocket books can have an effect. Make the suspensions long enough to make the players think before delivering a cheapshot.
Senior Moderator
That's the route the NFL has adopted...and although, it is not perfect, it is definitely significantly better than the NHL's attempts to protect their players.
The sizzle in the Steak
The idea that the league could police the players better than the players themselves has been proven to be a failure.
Players have and will roll the dice when it comes to a suspension.......the league has been crazy inconsistent with the suspensions. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.
...but the hand wringers will win out in the end, because they just can't wrap their heads around the fact the fighting in the league is not barbaric, it is a vital part of the game, that keeps players in check, and raises the level of mutual respect for one another.
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Take a vote anywhere and the NHL gets the for one of the worst managed leagues...
Okay, well...I'd venture it is a tie with MLB.
Okay, well...I'd venture it is a tie with MLB.
The sizzle in the Steak
The league does not need to change the rink size. Why would they need to do that?
Players have more protection today than ever before!
To think of the gear I used to wear 15 years ago to todays gear....it's literally night and day in terms of protection.
It's not the "faster" "better" athlete, nor the same for the gear.
It's the cheap shots that are increasing.....and they will occur regardless of the size of the rink, regardless of the protective equipment, regardless of the bigger better athlete.
Senior Moderator
The league does not need to change the rink size. Why would they need to do that?
Players have more protection today than ever before!
To think of the gear I used to wear 15 years ago to todays gear....it's literally night and day in terms of protection.
It's not the "faster" "better" athlete, nor the same for the gear.
It's the cheap shots that are increasing.....and they will occur regardless of the size of the rink, regardless of the protective equipment, regardless of the bigger better athlete.
And I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think the League adopting the European-sized rinks would not be such a bad idea...sure, it's not easy given how the arenas are right now. But, just food for thought...
As well, to your comment on cheapshots...I again say to look towards the NFL, another sport where physicality is encouraged. Sure, they have cheapshots but it is essentially zero-tolerance. It's not perfect but at least the rules/penalties are severe enough that it is not as rampant as how we're getting it with the NHL.
Clear rules. So, for instance, hits from behind is an automatic 10-game without pay ban. Something like that.
Trolling Canuckistan
The league does not need to change the rink size. Why would they need to do that?
Players have more protection today than ever before!
To think of the gear I used to wear 15 years ago to todays gear....it's literally night and day in terms of protection.
It's not the "faster" "better" athlete, nor the same for the gear.
It's the cheap shots that are increasing.....and they will occur regardless of the size of the rink, regardless of the protective equipment, regardless of the bigger better athlete.
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Yumcha (08-24-2011)
The sizzle in the Steak
I disagree on the gear Moog. While it does a better job at protecting the guy wearing it, it also makes his hits more punishing. I'm for removing the hard caps from the shoulder and elbow pads so the player delivering the hit will feel it's consequences too. Today's gear has gone from protection to becoming a weapon.
They are not new...hard cap elbows are "newer"...but not "new".
I don't agree with the gear being a weapon analogy.
More guys are getting destroyed by illegal hits than legal hits as a result of hard armor.
The sizzle in the Steak
Dunno...and although Cherry is sometimes off to orbit, I've seen a couple of his segments where he was talking about the current shoulder pads used and how they are leading to injuries...and you know what? I agree.
And I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think the League adopting the European-sized rinks would not be such a bad idea...sure, it's not easy given how the arenas are right now. But, just food for thought...
As well, to your comment on cheapshots...I again say to look towards the NFL, another sport where physicality is encouraged. Sure, they have cheapshots but it is essentially zero-tolerance. It's not perfect but at least the rules/penalties are severe enough that it is not as rampant as how we're getting it with the NHL.
Clear rules. So, for instance, hits from behind is an automatic 10-game without pay ban. Something like that.
And I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think the League adopting the European-sized rinks would not be such a bad idea...sure, it's not easy given how the arenas are right now. But, just food for thought...
As well, to your comment on cheapshots...I again say to look towards the NFL, another sport where physicality is encouraged. Sure, they have cheapshots but it is essentially zero-tolerance. It's not perfect but at least the rules/penalties are severe enough that it is not as rampant as how we're getting it with the NHL.
Clear rules. So, for instance, hits from behind is an automatic 10-game without pay ban. Something like that.
Checking from Behind – A check from behind is a check delivered on a player who is not aware of the impending hit, therefore unable to protect or defend himself, and contact is made on the back part of the body. When a player intentionally turns his body to create contact with his back, no penalty shall be assessed.
Trolling Canuckistan
Illegal hits coupled with hard capped armor does more damage. Soft pads would protect the hitter and do less damage to the target regardless of whether it was a legal hit or not.
Senior Moderator
I disagree on the gear Moog. While it does a better job at protecting the guy wearing it, it also makes his hits more punishing. I'm for removing the hard caps from the shoulder and elbow pads so the player delivering the hit will feel it's consequences too. Today's gear has gone from protection to becoming a weapon.
Senior Moderator
From CNNSI...
Sidney Crosby's agent said there's no timetable for the Pittsburgh Penguins star to return from a concussion, the clearest indication yet that he may not be ready when the NHL season begins in October.
Agent Pat Brisson discussed Crosby's recovery and medical status on the team website, apparently in response to reports out of Canada that say the 24-year-old's offseason training regimen has been shut down because of recurring symptoms from a concussion that have sidelined him since January.
Brisson said that's not true, though he acknowledged Crosby recently visited specialists in Michigan and Georgia and said Crosby's symptoms recurred when he got to 90-percent exertion in his offseason workouts, which were adjusted accordingly.
"We've had him see leading specialists because we want to make sure he gets the best care possible," Brisson said. "The Penguins always encourage their players to get second and third medical opinions and have been very supportive of this. And we've been talking to (general manager) Ray Shero every step of the way."
The Penguins open training camp on Sept. 16 and the regular season on Oct. 6, but Brisson said Crosby's return won't be dictated by those deadlines.
"We always knew this was going to be a progressive recovery -- based on how he felt," Brisson said. "With a concussion, there is not a finite recovery period like with a shoulder injury or a knee injury. That's why we've never even set a specific goal for a return date like the start of training camp or Oct. 1 or anything else.
"He will play when he is symptom-free."
Crosby is expected to return to Pittsburgh in a few weeks and will keep working toward a return. Brisson said doctors believe Crosby will make a full recovery, they just can't say how soon.
"I appreciate all the support I've received from my family, friends, teammates and fans and from the entire Penguins organization," Crosby said. "I know they only want the best for my health and for me to be fully ready when I return to game action."
Crosby was injured after taking hard hits in two games in January, including the outdoor Winter Classic game at Heinz Field against the Washington Capitals on Jan. 1, and missed 48 games after last playing Jan. 5.
Crosby participated in his normal offseason workout program, which includes skating and other on- and off-ice activities, before the headaches required unspecified adjustments.
"We wish we could provide more specific details about Sidney's recovery, but a concussion is a different kind of injury," Brisson said. "It's not something you can check with an X-ray. And you can't predict a recovery period. It's all about the way he feels."
Agent Pat Brisson discussed Crosby's recovery and medical status on the team website, apparently in response to reports out of Canada that say the 24-year-old's offseason training regimen has been shut down because of recurring symptoms from a concussion that have sidelined him since January.
Brisson said that's not true, though he acknowledged Crosby recently visited specialists in Michigan and Georgia and said Crosby's symptoms recurred when he got to 90-percent exertion in his offseason workouts, which were adjusted accordingly.
"We've had him see leading specialists because we want to make sure he gets the best care possible," Brisson said. "The Penguins always encourage their players to get second and third medical opinions and have been very supportive of this. And we've been talking to (general manager) Ray Shero every step of the way."
The Penguins open training camp on Sept. 16 and the regular season on Oct. 6, but Brisson said Crosby's return won't be dictated by those deadlines.
"We always knew this was going to be a progressive recovery -- based on how he felt," Brisson said. "With a concussion, there is not a finite recovery period like with a shoulder injury or a knee injury. That's why we've never even set a specific goal for a return date like the start of training camp or Oct. 1 or anything else.
"He will play when he is symptom-free."
Crosby is expected to return to Pittsburgh in a few weeks and will keep working toward a return. Brisson said doctors believe Crosby will make a full recovery, they just can't say how soon.
"I appreciate all the support I've received from my family, friends, teammates and fans and from the entire Penguins organization," Crosby said. "I know they only want the best for my health and for me to be fully ready when I return to game action."
Crosby was injured after taking hard hits in two games in January, including the outdoor Winter Classic game at Heinz Field against the Washington Capitals on Jan. 1, and missed 48 games after last playing Jan. 5.
Crosby participated in his normal offseason workout program, which includes skating and other on- and off-ice activities, before the headaches required unspecified adjustments.
"We wish we could provide more specific details about Sidney's recovery, but a concussion is a different kind of injury," Brisson said. "It's not something you can check with an X-ray. And you can't predict a recovery period. It's all about the way he feels."
The sizzle in the Steak
You can't have it both ways.
The sizzle in the Steak
...at this point let's just hope Crosby comes back and plays ...PERIOD....regardless whether it's opening night of this year or 2-3 years from now.
best prayers and wishes to Sid.
best prayers and wishes to Sid.
Senior Moderator
Damn
CHIARELLI: 'VERY UNLIKELY THAT SAVARD WILL PLAY AGAIN'
Boston Bruins forward Marc Savard may have played in his last NHL game.
Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli delivered some bleak news to a Boston newspaper on Wednesday.
"Marc Savard won't play this year," Chiarelli told the Boston Globe. "Nothing has changed in our monitoring. He'll be examined and he'll be declared unfit to play.
"Based on what I see, what I hear, what I read, and what I'm told, it's very unlikely Marc will play again," Chiarelli said.
The 34-year-old centre had 10 points in 25 games last season before missing the rest of the year with a concussion.
He was originally hurt by a check from Pittsburgh's Matt Cooke on March 7, 2010.
Boston Bruins forward Marc Savard may have played in his last NHL game.
Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli delivered some bleak news to a Boston newspaper on Wednesday.
"Marc Savard won't play this year," Chiarelli told the Boston Globe. "Nothing has changed in our monitoring. He'll be examined and he'll be declared unfit to play.
"Based on what I see, what I hear, what I read, and what I'm told, it's very unlikely Marc will play again," Chiarelli said.
The 34-year-old centre had 10 points in 25 games last season before missing the rest of the year with a concussion.
He was originally hurt by a check from Pittsburgh's Matt Cooke on March 7, 2010.
Trolling Canuckistan
I was just showing up here to report that. He couldn't even make it to some of the finals games to be a spectator, I don't know how he will ever play again.
The sizzle in the Steak
so sad, disturbing, disgusting....and so much of this can be avoided.
beats dead horse.
beats dead horse.
The sizzle in the Steak
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What's bizarre about this is he didn't seem to have any drug and alcohol demons like the others. He was apparently problem free, had a wife and 2 young kids and was just about to start his 2nd career as a broadcaster. It just doesn't fit in with the other deaths.
Of course who knows what was going through his head. My prayers go out to his wife and kids, who are now stuck picking up the pieces.
Of course who knows what was going through his head. My prayers go out to his wife and kids, who are now stuck picking up the pieces.
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wow
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From TSN (Bob McKenzie)...
It is always a shock to the system when tragedy strikes, especially when it is a current NHL player who has died, but with the passing of Wade Belak in Toronto on Wednesday, shocking doesn't begin to describe it.
For starters, Belak is the third NHL player who played NHL games last season who has died in the last four months. New York Ranger Derek Boogaard died in mid-May and former Vancouver Canuck Rick Rypien in mid-August. The passing of Boogaard and Rypien were no less tragic than that of Belak, let us be clear on that. All three performed the NHL's most dangerous and perhaps difficult job, that of the hockey enforcer.
But of the three, Belak is the one who, publicly anyway, came across as the most happy and carefree and at peace with himself.
At the time of Boogaard's death, it was well known by his friends, family and the hockey community that Derek was suffering terribly on every level from post-concussion syndrome. His cause of death was ruled as accidental, a lethal combination of alcohol and prescription pain medication.
Rypien's official cause of death was never formally acknowledged, but it was well known he had been dealing with depression for years and had taken a medical leave of absence from the NHL dating back to last November.
In the case of Belak, his many friends and former teammates, basically anyone who knew him, would be quick to say Belak came across as happy and well-adjusted, a player who had decided to retire this summer to pursue a career in broadcasting.
Belak always came across as friendly and outgoing, the life of any party, quick with a quip, who regularly turned up on a Toronto radio station to poke fun at everyone, including himself. If he were conflicted about the job he did or the life he led, it never showed to so many who called him a friend.
Like Boogaard, Rypien, and for that matter journeyman pro and ex-San Jose Shark Tom Cavanagh, whose mental health issues led to his suicide in mid-January, the death of Belak will impact the NHL and hockey community on every level.
There will no doubt be some hard questions asked of the NHL and NHL Players' Association in the wake of the death of three NHL tough guys in less than four months. Many will be looking for a link between the jobs Boogaard, Rypien and Belak did and what role it may have played in their deaths. Ultimately, those are questions that do need to be asked, though in a measured manner without leaping to unfounded conclusions based on wild speculation.
NHL and NHLPA executives did talk today in the wake of Belak's death. NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said the league is "concerned" and "troubled" by the third NHL death in the last four months. The league is expected to take a hard look at what more can be done to make sure players who need help know it's available to them and how to get it.
But like it or not, there will be many who will also want it to be a look at fighting in hockey and whether it in any way links the three deaths.
For today, though, the tragedy is too raw as the NHL community finds itself grieving yet again, this time on the most unimaginably shocking passing of Wade Belak.
For starters, Belak is the third NHL player who played NHL games last season who has died in the last four months. New York Ranger Derek Boogaard died in mid-May and former Vancouver Canuck Rick Rypien in mid-August. The passing of Boogaard and Rypien were no less tragic than that of Belak, let us be clear on that. All three performed the NHL's most dangerous and perhaps difficult job, that of the hockey enforcer.
But of the three, Belak is the one who, publicly anyway, came across as the most happy and carefree and at peace with himself.
At the time of Boogaard's death, it was well known by his friends, family and the hockey community that Derek was suffering terribly on every level from post-concussion syndrome. His cause of death was ruled as accidental, a lethal combination of alcohol and prescription pain medication.
Rypien's official cause of death was never formally acknowledged, but it was well known he had been dealing with depression for years and had taken a medical leave of absence from the NHL dating back to last November.
In the case of Belak, his many friends and former teammates, basically anyone who knew him, would be quick to say Belak came across as happy and well-adjusted, a player who had decided to retire this summer to pursue a career in broadcasting.
Belak always came across as friendly and outgoing, the life of any party, quick with a quip, who regularly turned up on a Toronto radio station to poke fun at everyone, including himself. If he were conflicted about the job he did or the life he led, it never showed to so many who called him a friend.
Like Boogaard, Rypien, and for that matter journeyman pro and ex-San Jose Shark Tom Cavanagh, whose mental health issues led to his suicide in mid-January, the death of Belak will impact the NHL and hockey community on every level.
There will no doubt be some hard questions asked of the NHL and NHL Players' Association in the wake of the death of three NHL tough guys in less than four months. Many will be looking for a link between the jobs Boogaard, Rypien and Belak did and what role it may have played in their deaths. Ultimately, those are questions that do need to be asked, though in a measured manner without leaping to unfounded conclusions based on wild speculation.
NHL and NHLPA executives did talk today in the wake of Belak's death. NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said the league is "concerned" and "troubled" by the third NHL death in the last four months. The league is expected to take a hard look at what more can be done to make sure players who need help know it's available to them and how to get it.
But like it or not, there will be many who will also want it to be a look at fighting in hockey and whether it in any way links the three deaths.
For today, though, the tragedy is too raw as the NHL community finds itself grieving yet again, this time on the most unimaginably shocking passing of Wade Belak.
chips and smokes, lets go
What's bizarre about this is he didn't seem to have any drug and alcohol demons like the others. He was apparently problem free, had a wife and 2 young kids and was just about to start his 2nd career as a broadcaster. It just doesn't fit in with the other deaths.
Of course who knows what was going through his head. My prayers go out to his wife and kids, who are now stuck picking up the pieces.
Of course who knows what was going through his head. My prayers go out to his wife and kids, who are now stuck picking up the pieces.
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Another suicide?