dom

According to Darren Dreger Nash is pissed.... Does he pressure the Jackets?

But he has no leverage. Serves him right for signing long term in Columbus.

Moog-Type-S

^^ He has no leverage.

If he does not go in the next few minutes, he will for sure be gone in the off season.

Moog-Type-S

Time to wake up from the trade deadline slumber.

The Carter deal took all the wind out of the deadline sails.

Yumcha

Nashville's pickup of Gausted is a very good one IMO.


And SJ just got bigger with the two players from Denver.

dom

Fixed.

Moog-Type-S

San Jose gave up quite a bit of 3rd line depth.

Yumcha

Well, Nashville punted a 1st for Gausted. So, goes to show, it was quite the seller's market.

Heck Chicago passed up a 2nd and 3rd for Oduya.

Still, I don't really recall any "big" trade aside from Francis going to the Pens many many years ago that led to the Cup. Most are these types of depth trades that help. The Canucks, Preds, and Sharks are the teams I see that got really good.

Yumcha

But, I don't know hockey. My true expertise is kungfu and maff.


Now, excuse me while I go rant and rave that Stan Bowman is an idiot for not trading Toews for a name-brand goalie.

Moog-Type-S

dom

I know you probably havn't watched any Leaf games lately but their goal tending is exhibit A as to why you need good goal tending. The 2 stiff's they have are killing them to the tune of 2-3 softies a game.

Yumcha

I don't watch your Leafs enough to make a fair comment, so, I'm not going to pull a you or Moog here on...you (where you judge a team without watching them regularly).

But, I will say this: If the goalie has no confidence in his team's defense (the D-men or the forwards), then it will affect his play. It is a 2-way street. Crawford is a fundamentally sound goalie who was always decent and projected to be a solid NHL goalie.

Just like how Moog thinks Jignov is going to be next Norris winner and etc., Crawford's prognosis is he's going to be a good goalie. This year, it went belly-up the same way as Howard (see Detroit) of last season...call it sophomore jinx, call it whatever. But, for sure, it has been some very poor defensive play on the Hawks that has contributed to many of the goals let in.

This does not excuse Crawford for some of the shoddy goals he has let in...but, again, I want to then refer you back to my first point, he has no confidence in his D and so, it is affecting his play.

IN CHICAGO'S case (not sure if this can apply for the Leafs), if they can fix their defensive play (I think it may be too late with less than 20 games left), the goaltending will improve. This formula has worked for them before and it can again. Just that this year, the right mix of players don't seem to be there for the Hawks.



Oh oops: @ Bowman for not trading Sharp, Hossa, Toews for Luongo.

Moog-Type-S

Quick has ZERO confidence in the forward play of the Kings, and yet he is at the top of his game. Has not had an effect on him.

Quick has to pitch a shutout nearly every game in order to get a win.
Talk about no confidence in the team.

Yumcha

Pffft...you thought your team was Cup-worthy and Deano was the best GM EVAR.

Moog-Type-S

Never said that.

Yumcha

Dude, Quick has ZERO confidence in the forwards to SCORE a goal for your team. But, the overall team D is stronger than Chicago. Nice try.


But, yes...Quick will lead your team to the Cup. You have your name-brand goalie. Now, go beat Detroit and Vancouver.

Yumcha

I can gladly repost your quotes.

And you call ME myopic.

Moog-Type-S

Nope. Confidence is confidence. Great goaltenders have this.
Poor goaltenders do not. They get shaken easily.

You confidence argument holds no water.

Moog-Type-S

Did you guys see all those deadline trades of big name goaltenders being traded for AHL scrubs to free up cap space.

...because there is no need for a big name goaltender in this league.

Those are for suckers!!!

:wink:

Yumcha

The Kings don't play the puck-possession game Chicago does. It's not how LA is made up or coached to play...so, by virtue, a much more defensive team.

Chicago's game is about puck possession and it does lead to very FEW GAA if there is the right personnel. Hence, 2009-2010 and the year before. Very good. This year and last, with the gutting and some backfires on players brought in to replace the ones that left, it has led to a poor puck-possession-type game...ergo, bad defense and lots of turnovers.

Chicago has lost a TON of speed overall and losing a VERY GOOD #3 in Campbell has left them even more exposed this year. Chicago's 2nd and 3rd pairing on D are not strong at all and Keith/Seabrook can't play 60 minutes. There is Chicago's problem. Period.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Call up an AHL scrub goalie....that should help things...right?

dom

I don't doubt that can and does happen, but if the goalie is weak mentally, is he a good goalie? Did Roy, Brodeur, etc.... always have great teams in front of them? I'm talking long stretches BTW, not 2 weeks.

I recall Cujo and Belfour standing on their head in Toronto for a good 5 years while the team in front of them was terrible defensively.

Should have traded Hossa for a goalie but who wants that stiff and his terrible contract.

Yumcha

How about this: When YOUR team wins the Cup with Quick the Savior posting a .999 save percentage and 16 shutouts in the playoffs, I'll forever zipit about not needing a name-brand goalie to win the Cup, okay?

I don't know what else I can write to even get through to you. You are taking my comments completely black and white and disregarding my point that you need overall team play to support a DECENT goaltender.

I don't disagree that a goalie needs to make a big save every so often. You make it seem like Crawford has not made one big save his entire life let alone this season. I'm telling you, while he has not been brilliant at times, Chicago's problems are not all his fault. But, again, you choose to instigate and be a troll about this topic.

Whatever. Keep at it.

Like I said before, you have proven to be as myopic as what you accused me of during CHICAGO'S CUP-RUN YEAR. Let's see if your myopia leads to your King's and Deano winning a Cup this year; cuz during FA in the summer, you were giddy like Mizouse in an Apple store.

Yumcha

Valid points. But, you make it sound like Crawford has not made a big save all year. Fact is, he has made some key saves...Crawford, IMO, is not a basket-case. He's quite even keel and showed that last year against the Canucks when he outplayed Luongo regularly and was one of the key reasons Chicago came back from 3-0. This guy cannot make a save off of deflections with a guy screening him though, can he?

And that is again on Chicago's D...no one to clear the crease or block shots. Chicago, I think, is one of the teams with the fewest blocked shots in the League. It also explains why their PK is so putrid.

Yumcha

Vancouver picks up more size in Kassian and Gragnani. Price was Hodgson though.

Moog-Type-S

but nobody here buys into your argument.

It has been proven historically that top tier goal tending wins cups.

Just like the roulette wheel the odds will be red or black...odd or even.
...once in a blue moon the 00.

You hit the 00, and you assume that is par for the course.....and where the good odds are at.

It's not.

dom

Can't disagree because I haven't seen much of the Hawks. The media does seem to be roasting Crawford though. I think both Toronto and Chicago should have picked up some insurance between the pipes but I'm guessing the prices were insane.

Moog-Type-S

...and why is there a comparison to Luongo?!?!

That guy is as Schizo as they come.

dom

Yumchah, not to harp on this, because I'm trying not to go down this road again and do agree with the points your making. But...if you threw Patrick Roy of 1993 into Chicago's lineup tonight are they a better team?

Answer honestly

Moog-Type-S

Swap Roy & Hrudey in the '93 finals, and the Kings would have won The Cup.
Roy was the difference maker.

Yumcha

Is there a Patrick-Roy-type available for trade? How often does that type of goalie come to the League?

So, given they don't grow on trees, I again, go back to my point, to win a Cup can't be based off of getting that type of elite goalie. A serviceable type for the roster can be used to go all the way...

Yumcha

Where have I EVER said you only need a non-NHL-caliber goalie to help a team win? I have never ever said that. You are on drug, dude.

I said: a team needs a serviceable goalie. NHL-caliber is a given at a minimum. Where my line is drawn with YOU is that I do not believe a team needs to have a Vezina-TYPE goalie to win the Cup anymore. I specifically remember you were ridiculing the Hawks and Niemi/Huet tandem in 2009-2010. No, they are not Vezina or 1A goalies. But, hey...they got the job done.

A Vezina-type/super elite goalie obviously don't hurt but as teams have shown, a non-franchise-type goalie can still work if other parts of the team can support (i.e. good team defense). And even with an elite type goalie (please see Vokoun and Bryzgalov), that alone is not enough is it?



Wow, you are something else sometimes.
Seriously...where did I imply or say that a minor-league goalie was enough?

Moog-Type-S

Are you implying Crawford is serviceable?!?!?!

He has a GAA of nearly 3

How is that serviceable?

Sounds like an AHL scrub...no?


I think if said goal tender is wearing a Hawks jersey they are "serviceable" in your eyes.

Sure, I don't watch all the Hawks games, but I do know the Kings very well, and they have the leagues WORST offense, and yet Crawford allowed four goals on 10 shots!

Sketchy at best.

...and the Kings did have that big breakdown and allowed the Hawks a 2 on NONE....Quick stopped it....he is that good.


I don't wanna harp. I get it. You stand by your team bar none. Ok. Cool.
It's just trying to make sense how poor goal tending is somehow good goal tending.

Moog-Type-S

Howson threw Nash under the bus.

Howson.

Yumcha

Dude, you are not understanding me at all.


I am not defending Crawford because he's a Blackhawks goalie. I just know that he's a decent goalie from what I've seen and his GAA is inflated largely due to Chicago's shoddy defensive play and PK. Please read that prior sentence a few more times to get that into your head. And key words: largely due to Chicago's shoddy defensive play and PK.

And okay, with the Roy-like Quick you have, did he not let in 3 goals on 11 shots against the Avs just a few nights ago? And right before that, 4 goals against the Yotes?

So, ALLOW ME TO BE YOU: QUICK SUCKS. The poor play was ALL HIS FAULT. The forwards and defense...THEY ARE NOT AT FAULT FOR ANY OF THOSE GOALS.

There.

Yumcha

I'm not giving Crawford a pass for his showing against LA. He was lousy in that game (hey, in my examples about Quick, he had a couple of lousy games statistically too, no?). But, take that game out and you still have the fact that Chicago's D and forwards have not given any goalie any confidence whatsoever.

Is Crawford a basketcase this year? Who knows. But, I can say that with Chicago's current defensive play, even Tim Thomas would have lousy stats. The turnovers they have in the neutral zone, terrible PK, and lack of good face-off men past Toews is gonna deepsix their season.

Moog-Type-S

So by your rationale with the Kings D-system being one of the leagues best, they should have no problem say....swapping Quick for Crawford.

All things should be equal if that was to be done?

Yumcha

In LA's current environment? I'd say Crawford would be less flaky this year. Sure, your team would not be scoring regardless, but he won't be facing the issues he is dealing with the Hawks.

How is LA's PK? Does your team have issues clearing men from in front of the net? Do they block shots?

Cuz, I'll say this: if Quick was in Chicago, he'd have to deal with a bad PK, no one clearing the crease, and no shot-blocking.

And please for goodness sakes do not think I'm disregarding how GOOD Quick is. Because, he's a good goalie. If you want to play GM and send Chicago Quick for Crawford, I'd say sure...do it. Right now, Quick is the better goalie. But, I don't think he would do well in Chicago right now.

Moog-Type-S

I beg to differ.

A top quality goaltender would help your team immensely.

...just in soft goals alone it would be a big difference.

Yumcha

Well, agree to disagree then. Cuz, while you are using Quick as an example, for that, you also have the Vokouns and Bryzgalovs. You tell me how great and scary Philly and the Caps look to you. Did they not finally add that "top tier" goalie to their team this year? Where are they now?

And again, Crawford has made key stops. He was lousy against the Kings perhaps but as recently in the Hawks mini-win streak (@ 4 games), he made lots of key saves and stops on break-aways.

Like I said, you have this thing black and white about 1A-type goalies and their significance to teams. While I agree they work, all I've maintained is you can have a very good team still with a SERVICEABLE goalie.

Chicago's problems is like a chicken and egg thing. I cannot say you are wrong with 100% certainty if you slapped in a great goalie (i.e. Thomas, Rinne) that they won't get suddenly very good. But, how does this change Chicago's awful PK, inability to block shots, or move people who plant themselves in front of the net? It doesn't.

jupitersolo

And the kid has come back and won two straight !!! With the Caps scoring four goals in each game!