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Hockey: News and Discussion Thread
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This city could easily support 2 teams. Its a no brainer. Leaf games have been sold out forever and they charge too much. Not that a new TO franchise would charge less but the market for PRO hockey is here, no question.
$200 mill to move an existing team isn't the problem. It's the money the Leafs would want plus the money needed to build a new stadium that would pose a problem. If Ballsillie to willing to cough up the likely $600+ mill needed, god bless him.
$200 mill to move an existing team isn't the problem. It's the money the Leafs would want plus the money needed to build a new stadium that would pose a problem. If Ballsillie to willing to cough up the likely $600+ mill needed, god bless him.
Senior Moderator
Are they thinking of moving a existing team or starting fresh?
Stadium shouldn't be a problem if they want it bad enough.
What would the Leafs want in terms of compensation?
Stadium shouldn't be a problem if they want it bad enough.
What would the Leafs want in terms of compensation?
Senior Moderator
From what I've heard, mov an existing team.
Who will pay? Gov't won't so Ballsillie has to foot the bill.
I've heard anywhere from 50-100 mill. No idea if that's accurate. If they put the team in the Greater Toronto area as they should, I'd expect closer to 100.
Stadium shouldn't be a problem if they want it bad enough.
What would the Leafs want in terms of compensation?
Senior Moderator
It appears some National Hockey League officials think the Toronto market is big enough to have two teams.
According to The Globe and Mail, a few NHL governors are keen on the idea of putting a second team in Toronto.
''Why shouldn't we put another team in the best and biggest market in the world?'' one governor told the newspaper anonymously, adding one scenario involves Research in Motion CEO Jim Balsillie being awarded an expansion franchise after coming to the aid of the financially-strapped Nashville Predators.
Any suggestion of relocation or expansion into Canada's largest city is news to other league executives. "This has never been discussed in the governors meetings I've been involved in," Caroliona Hurricanes governor and general manager Jim Rutherford told TSN on Tuesday.
''I've heard bits and pieces of this scenario, although not in that kind of detail,'' Calgary Flames co-owner Harley Hotchkiss told The Globe and Mail. ''Our priority is to have the existing franchises solid.''
Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment President Richard Peddie said his organization would listen to any expansion suggestions and downplayed any negative effect it could have on the Maple Leafs. "Any talk about expansion or relocation of another NHL team to southern Ontario is purely speculative," he told TSN. "If or when the National Hockey League comes to the Board of Governors with a recommendation on relocation or expansion of an NHL franchise, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment will analyze the recommendation and provide its input at that time."
Another governor told the newspaper the league would be better served by moving an exisiting team as opposed to granting an expansion franchise.
“I don't think it can be an expansion team,” the unnamed executive told The Globe and Mail. “We can't expand because we would be the laughingstock of professional sports. We've got too many troubled franchises."
In recent years, Balsillie has made attempts to buy the Predators and Pittsburgh Penguins amid speculation he would move the team to the southern Ontario region.
According to The Globe and Mail, a few NHL governors are keen on the idea of putting a second team in Toronto.
''Why shouldn't we put another team in the best and biggest market in the world?'' one governor told the newspaper anonymously, adding one scenario involves Research in Motion CEO Jim Balsillie being awarded an expansion franchise after coming to the aid of the financially-strapped Nashville Predators.
Any suggestion of relocation or expansion into Canada's largest city is news to other league executives. "This has never been discussed in the governors meetings I've been involved in," Caroliona Hurricanes governor and general manager Jim Rutherford told TSN on Tuesday.
''I've heard bits and pieces of this scenario, although not in that kind of detail,'' Calgary Flames co-owner Harley Hotchkiss told The Globe and Mail. ''Our priority is to have the existing franchises solid.''
Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment President Richard Peddie said his organization would listen to any expansion suggestions and downplayed any negative effect it could have on the Maple Leafs. "Any talk about expansion or relocation of another NHL team to southern Ontario is purely speculative," he told TSN. "If or when the National Hockey League comes to the Board of Governors with a recommendation on relocation or expansion of an NHL franchise, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment will analyze the recommendation and provide its input at that time."
Another governor told the newspaper the league would be better served by moving an exisiting team as opposed to granting an expansion franchise.
“I don't think it can be an expansion team,” the unnamed executive told The Globe and Mail. “We can't expand because we would be the laughingstock of professional sports. We've got too many troubled franchises."
In recent years, Balsillie has made attempts to buy the Predators and Pittsburgh Penguins amid speculation he would move the team to the southern Ontario region.
Senior Moderator
He's probably right.
TORONTO (Oct. 21) -- The report in this morning's Globe & Mail about NHL governors "informally" discussing a second team for this city makes almost too much sense. What it doesn't make is cents for the Toronto Maple Leafs and it therefore has almost no chance of happening while the current ownership group is in place.
Richard Peddie, CEO of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, understands it costs nothing to speak diplomatically about the issue, as he did while telling the Globe that his company would "not automatically reject" the notion of a second team infringing on its territory. Okay, so it wouldn't be automatic. But, using a car analogy, MLSE would "manually" assure that it remains the sole proprietor of big-league hockey in this city. There is simply not enough to gain, and too much to lose, by deciding to share the wealth in a region where an NHL monopoly has long guaranteed unconditional fan support.
The Leafs own the entire southern Ontario market and are obsessive about squeezing every dime from that foothold. MLSE has used the "brand" to promote a multi-million-dollar residential and commercial development on the west plaza of the Air Canada Centre; to coax the city and province into financing a stadium at Exhibition Place for its Major League Soccer team [Toronto FC], and to peddle untold millions of dollars in licensing products each year. Why would the company even dream of risking this lavish copyright?
Would the infusion of indemnification rights and/or rental fees at the ACC ultimately be worth relinquishing its exclusive hold on the city and surrounding areas? In a circumstance whereby fans will sustain a losing product – partly because they have no alternative – why would MLSE sanction a choice? How would it look on the company if a new club quickly surpassed the Leafs’ ability to ice a winning product, as just about every expansion team since 1967 has done? What effect might that have on the unlimited reverence accorded the Blue & White?
And, most importantly, at a time when MLSE contends it is losing a younger demographic, why would it offer an alternative to a supposedly dwindling fan base? There is no distinguishable evidence of such a decline, as the Leafs rake in profits that are the envy of other teams in the league. But, if MLSE claims it is no longer matching its own standard of consumer awareness – as it did during a meeting with reporters prior to the season – there is little reason to believe it would welcome direct competition.
A second team in southern Ontario, or a second tenant at the Air Canada Centre, would probably thrive in this hockey-crazed region. NHL owners that have any perception will acknowledge this, as several did to the Globe & Mail. But, there is absolutely no evidence – direct or circumstantial – that the Maple Leafs would yield a millimeter of their territory. MLSE owns one of the most influential and lucrative franchises in the NHL and it has no desire to weaken its power-base.
Richard Peddie, CEO of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, understands it costs nothing to speak diplomatically about the issue, as he did while telling the Globe that his company would "not automatically reject" the notion of a second team infringing on its territory. Okay, so it wouldn't be automatic. But, using a car analogy, MLSE would "manually" assure that it remains the sole proprietor of big-league hockey in this city. There is simply not enough to gain, and too much to lose, by deciding to share the wealth in a region where an NHL monopoly has long guaranteed unconditional fan support.
The Leafs own the entire southern Ontario market and are obsessive about squeezing every dime from that foothold. MLSE has used the "brand" to promote a multi-million-dollar residential and commercial development on the west plaza of the Air Canada Centre; to coax the city and province into financing a stadium at Exhibition Place for its Major League Soccer team [Toronto FC], and to peddle untold millions of dollars in licensing products each year. Why would the company even dream of risking this lavish copyright?
Would the infusion of indemnification rights and/or rental fees at the ACC ultimately be worth relinquishing its exclusive hold on the city and surrounding areas? In a circumstance whereby fans will sustain a losing product – partly because they have no alternative – why would MLSE sanction a choice? How would it look on the company if a new club quickly surpassed the Leafs’ ability to ice a winning product, as just about every expansion team since 1967 has done? What effect might that have on the unlimited reverence accorded the Blue & White?
And, most importantly, at a time when MLSE contends it is losing a younger demographic, why would it offer an alternative to a supposedly dwindling fan base? There is no distinguishable evidence of such a decline, as the Leafs rake in profits that are the envy of other teams in the league. But, if MLSE claims it is no longer matching its own standard of consumer awareness – as it did during a meeting with reporters prior to the season – there is little reason to believe it would welcome direct competition.
A second team in southern Ontario, or a second tenant at the Air Canada Centre, would probably thrive in this hockey-crazed region. NHL owners that have any perception will acknowledge this, as several did to the Globe & Mail. But, there is absolutely no evidence – direct or circumstantial – that the Maple Leafs would yield a millimeter of their territory. MLSE owns one of the most influential and lucrative franchises in the NHL and it has no desire to weaken its power-base.
Missing My CL-S
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Senior Moderator
Am I missing something here? Seems like the newspaper is coming up with things. Sounds like there's never been a meeting or any real discussions.. Are they trying to create something not there? or am I slow today?
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Senior Moderator
I'm sure some owners fed up with losing money and decided to go the press to put some pressure on Bettman. Not all owners are happy with the way things are turning out.
Senior Moderator
My guess is.... as usual their just denying it. Although I seriously doubt any serious discussions this have taken place at a governor's meeting. But I'm sure it was brought up and talked about even briefly.
I'm sure some owners fed up with losing money and decided to go the press to put some pressure on Bettman. Not all owners are happy with the way things are turning out.
I'm sure some owners fed up with losing money and decided to go the press to put some pressure on Bettman. Not all owners are happy with the way things are turning out.
Sounds like the press is looking for some exposure.. Although I have no problem with them bringing it up and pressing the issue.. Someone needs to get the ball rolling.
But I can't picture two teams in Toronto.. Just doesn't seem right..
Let's Go Pens
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If the NHL were to seriously consider expansion or just move a franchise would Toronto be the only option? I mean I don't know how the market is but Montreal doesn't seem to have a problem supporting the Habs, could they possibly handle two teams? I would assume if this really became a hot topic there would be other provinces wanting to have a slice of the pie for themselves. How about the states? I hear Kansas City wants a team
Senior Moderator
If the NHL were to seriously consider expansion or just move a franchise would Toronto be the only option? I mean I don't know how the market is but Montreal doesn't seem to have a problem supporting the Habs, could they possibly handle two teams? I would assume if this really became a hot topic there would be other provinces wanting to have a slice of the pie for themselves.
Just drop a rink between Montreal and Toronto.. Done deal..
Either way it's going to be the redheaded step child..
Unofficial Goat
iTrader: (1)
If the NHL were to seriously consider expansion or just move a franchise would Toronto be the only option? I mean I don't know how the market is but Montreal doesn't seem to have a problem supporting the Habs, could they possibly handle two teams? I would assume if this really became a hot topic there would be other provinces wanting to have a slice of the pie for themselves. How about the states? I hear Kansas City wants a team
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Senior Moderator
I think out of the gate, People in around TO would be all over this new team seeing how the Leafs suck yet continue to rip us off. But after the novelty wears off most will be back to loving the Leafs. Although I still see no problem supporting both teams.
Senior Moderator
If the NHL were to seriously consider expansion or just move a franchise would Toronto be the only option? I mean I don't know how the market is but Montreal doesn't seem to have a problem supporting the Habs, could they possibly handle two teams? I would assume if this really became a hot topic there would be other provinces wanting to have a slice of the pie for themselves. How about the states? I hear Kansas City wants a team
Other provinces don't count, their too small and have no corporate backing.
Senior Moderator
So, what would be a good name for a 2nd Toronto team...?
My votes: Toronto Maple Syrups, Toronto Beavers...
My votes: Toronto Maple Syrups, Toronto Beavers...
The sizzle in the Steak
Senior Moderator
Something else to consider is that are too many teams in the Eastern Conf and 2 Western Conf. teams that should be in the East, Detroit and Columbus. So it will have to be a struggling Eastern team that gets moved.
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It's like a blessing from the gods having Yumachcha at 49,998 posts. Means he won't post for awhile as he thinks of a good 50K thread.. Dom when he gets to 49,999 we just have to delete a post or two..
Senior Moderator
50K??? I thought I had no life.
Yummy, what do you do for a living, besides post all day?
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I heard some more about this on the radio on the drive home. Doesn't sound like it was much more than an owner pissed at Bettman about the state of 8 or so teams bleeding money and thinks a team in Toronto is a good idea.
They also had Nick Kypreos on and he's heard that there's another prominent group that plans to buy a team and move it to Toronto. They even have land north of the city ready to go (I'm north ) But he wouldn't say who.
Apparently Ballsillie wants his team in Hamilton, not Toronto.
I ain't holding my breath for a second team. Bettman hates way too much to let it happen.
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Go B's Go
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Yeah I didn't think of that...just I guess I'm so used to the two teams in NY and Chicago and never thought twice about it. I obviously wasn't around when they introduced the Mets or the White Sox as a second team, but how was the transition as far as fans went? Anybody know?
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Need a League Ruling
*** My buddy, five holes, as you know has played with us every year. Well he's struggling for a goalie and I have a solid offer. I don't want to pull a Stevens so I ask you guys, can I make a trade with him?
*** My buddy, five holes, as you know has played with us every year. Well he's struggling for a goalie and I have a solid offer. I don't want to pull a Stevens so I ask you guys, can I make a trade with him?
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Yeah I didn't think of that...just I guess I'm so used to the two teams in NY and Chicago and never thought twice about it. I obviously wasn't around when they introduced the Mets or the White Sox as a second team, but how was the transition as far as fans went? Anybody know?
I also heard something about the Jets charging far less than the Giants for seats and seat licenses in their new building so I guess that tells us something.
Senior Moderator
Bob Mcowen along with Jim Kelly (Buffalo hockey writer) also seem to feel and have been told that any attempt by the Leafs to get some money for territorial rights would be a losing battle in court. They didn't give specifics but believe that the Leafs or the NHL have no legal legs to stand on if another team wanted to set up shop.
Senior Moderator
Bob Mcowen along with Jim Kelly (Buffalo hockey writer) also seem to feel and have been told that any attempt by the Leafs to get some money for territorial rights would be a losing battle in court. They didn't give specifics but believe that the Leafs or the NHL have no legal legs to stand on if another team wanted to set up shop.
As long as it's not directly next door I can't see any issue with it either. Although, I think Bettman and the NHL should tread lightly..
Edit - I tried googling.. Does anyone know the distance between Yankee stadium(new or old) and the Mets stadium?