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Uh, not really. By the end of the day, there's this thing called Physics that still limits everything we do. And it gets fucking expensive to push the limits. The GTR is 5 seconds slower on that track. We have no idea what conditions, tires, mods (if any) were used. But, 5 seconds is huge.
And apparently outrunning the Huayra and Veyron still makes this car a fail. So what do you call those two then? Granted, the Veyron is more of a GT car, but the Pagani was built to assault track surfaces.
Of the cars posted, only the 3 hyper cars were faster. Oh, and the ACR viper that beat it by 0.04seconds. Essentially a tie, in my mind.
Originally Posted by TacoBello
I don't particularly take any side, when it comes to this car. Or many others, for that matter. I go by the proof. The NSX is no slouch.
You are also speculating it's a piece of shit to drive, yet you've never sat in one. Not sure what you're basing your judgement on. The fact it's loaded with computers? Which super/hypercar these days isn't?
The unofficial lap time by Graham Rahal is pretty impressive. Who knows what he can really do in the NSX if he does a serious run (ie. putting his helmet on and actually drive seriously) and with the optional Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's instead of the Pirelli P-Zero Trofeo R's.
Most, if not all the latest reviews seem to say the NSX is also very fun to drive.
If it's not obvious, he said the car is extremely fun to drive (I explicitly asked this in one of the threads too).
And yup 5 seconds is huge for a track that is 1:20 to 1:30 long.....At Tsukuba, the NA2 NSX-R is a 1:05 car. The Alfa romeo 147 GTA is a 1:10 car and the Nismo R35 GT-R is a 1:01 car. Just to give you a reference as to what kind of difference we are talking about at 4-5 seconds.
Acura 2G TSX is biggest piece of crap car Honda ever build. 1990 Chevrolet has better interior. Much premium interior and superior vent placement. Acura 2G TSX is unrefined, low power junk. Even on upgraded tires it slow and worse, ugly inside and out.
It’s been a hot minute since Acura launched a true supercar. The last time we saw a salacious, ceiling-smashing, mortgage-busting 2-seater from Honda’s upscale outfit, Ayrton Senna and McLaren were dominating Formula 1.
That was 1990, when the Acura NSX crashed the supercar party. It was a revelation for Honda—a company known more for thrifty, utilitarian cars that ran forever—and an unexpected challenge to contemporary exotics from those guys in Italy. The NSX combined groundbreaking tech like an aluminum chassis and titanium engine valves with the comfort and reliability of an Accord to create a supercar you could commute in.
The original NSX, amazing as it was, eventually became a historical relic, unable (or unwilling) to compete in the horsepower wars of the past decade. The 2017 model faces the challenge of living up to its predecessor, matching potent rivals, and delivering driving emotion before the machines take the wheel from humans.
Quarter-Century Cycle
In the 25 years since the 1st NSX drew auto enthusiasts to the east, hypercars from Ferrari, Porsche, and McLaren have evolved from thirsty, big displacement beasts to smart, sophisticated hybrids with all-wheel drive and bogglingly complicated drivetrains.
The 21st century take on the NSX, which starts at $156,000, follows the same path. 3 motors join the mid-mounted, twin-turbo V6 in sending power to all 4 wheels. It’s a convincing package. The engine is good for 500 horsepower and the motors offer another 73, propelling the car to 60 mph in 2.9 seconds and a top speed of 191 mph.
All manner of computerized logic helps with acceleration, cornering, and lap times. There’s a lot of thinking to do. Just to cite 1 example, 2 of the 3 electric motors drive the front wheels, each operating independently to ensure torque goes exactly where it’s needed. During hard cornering, extra power goes to the outside wheel. Meanwhile, the motor driving the inside wheel flips into generator mode, slowing the wheel to make the car turn in faster and sending the recuperated kinetic energy to the battery.
Behind the Wheel
Climb into the NSX’s 2-seat cabin, an overwhelming sense of Honda-ness greets you. The integrated, center-mounted shift control mechanism, those familiar graphics on the shape-shifting digital display, the accommodating, ergonomic friendliness that speaks of benign functionality.
The vanilla overtones are spiced with pleasant details, like the peekaboo aluminum structural member in the dash between a swath of Alcantara and leather, which designers say is a nod to naked sport bikes, and the way the cool display morphs its design between drive modes. A sense of restrained tautness governs the cabin.
The NSX lets you drive in full electric mode, and, in addition to standard modes like Sport, Sport +, and Track, there’s Quiet. As in, chauffeuring your mother-in-law quiet, or don’t-wake-the-neighbors-as-you-head-to-work quiet, or Airwolf air-to-ground surveillance stealth mode quiet. Your demographic may vary.
On the Track
My 1st go at Sonoma Raceway reveals a buttery smooth ability that complements the raw power numbers. The combination of internal combustion and electric motivation delivers a smooth whoosh of energy leading up to peak torque, between 6,500 and 7,500 rpm. There’s no lull or soft spot within that crescendo, no surge or spike, just a constant pull of power.
Away from the track, the NSX is commanding and confident on public roads, devouring s-curves and straights as though the frunk were piled with get-out-of-jail-free cards.
Launch control is similarly drama-free. All 4 wheels fling the car forward like an aircraft carrier catapult. When you reach the corner, just turn the wheel and feel the surprisingly porky NSX (3,802 pounds) obey without question. The 9-speed transmission does its part, downshifting with a quick and smooth throttle blip and upshifting nearly instantaneously as the computers send just enough power to the wheels that need it most.
Track mode delivers sharper jolts of torque and tire sliding. Though the engine soundtrack cranks up by 25 decibels compared to Quiet mode, the aural mood is more deliberate aircraft than blatty, burbly racecar. Sure, there are some throaty, compelling acoustics emanating from the engine (aided by intake sounds directed into the cabin), but the overall tone is 1 of focused fierceness, not heedless fury.
Switch off all the electric aids and things get sloppier; tracking the car through a corner takes more attention, the car feels looser. But you’re never entirely alone. When I intentionally lift the throttle mid-corner, ready to reapply gas and countersteer to right the car, the damn thing catches itself. Back in the pits, I try in vain to convince Nick Robinson, head of dynamic development, that a car that starts at $156,000 should, for better or worse, let the driver disable all of the nannies and experience the unrestrained glory of 573 horsepower. (Ed.
Anyway. Away from the track, the NSX is commanding and confident on public roads, devouring s-curves and straights as though someone filled the frunk with get-out-of-jail-free cards.
I wonder if the NSX is over-rationalized, a too-smart-for-its-own-good expression of brain over brawn.
1 decision perplexes: The standard tires, Continental’s 4-season Conti-Sport SP, give up grip far too early when driven hard. The solution comes with the more aggressive (and optional) Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires. Making all-year rubber the standard is like cladding an Olympic sprinter with hiking boots. Oh, Honda.
The Supercar, Cerebralized.
The team behind the NSX is eager and inventive, but I wonder if the NSX is over-rationalized, a too-smart-for-its-own-good expression of brain over brawn. Soft-spoken NSX project lead Ted Klaus is an airy auto philosopher, with lines like, “How can you have something that’s basically complicated and fundamentally heavy that provides a sense of lightness?” Chassis guru Robinson is similarly cerebral, describing his team’s approach to the human machine interface as, “We wanted a degree of linearity so it could be driven not from the upper brain, but from the brain stem.”
If this were a piece of music, the Japanese redux would be less Van Halen’s “Runnin’ With the Devil” and more Bach’s “Well-Tempered Clavier.” And while I miss the sound, fury, and madness of its Italian counterparts—the howling engine, the dance-in-your-hands steering, the enfant terrible street cred—there is something to be said for the Acura’s Porsche-like rationality.
The 2017 NSX is a monument to engineering, refinement, and ultimately, a certain kind of invisibility. While Aston Martin and Bentley build cars with enough panache to considered supercars for the gentleman set, the Acura NSX is the thinking man’s exotic. Or, perhaps, an everyman’s supercar, exploring the themes of refinement and restraint rather than boom, bombast, and extroversion.
Will history be as kind to the new kid? It will take time, patience, and a whole lot of miles to find out.
The silver dash trim should have been CF like the steering wheel.
Except it's not silver trim. It's exposed aluminum that forms the dash (if I'm not mistaken). All carbon fiber would a) be very expensive (we are already complaining about the current price tag) and b) look very drab. The silver contrast is very nice.
Except it's not silver trim. It's exposed aluminum that forms the dash (if I'm not mistaken). All carbon fiber would a) be very expensive (we are already complaining about the current price tag) and b) look very drab. The silver contrast is very nice.
Then its nothing more than "unrefined junk"
And it wouldnt have cost much or added much if any weight to make a CF cover for it
That's kind of a dumb argument. Acura isn't putting on some fly-by-night, VIS carbon fiber parts on their car. Have you noticed that all the carbon bits you can add to the NSX add up to like 45k? Granted, some of it is the "NSX premium" charge, but dry carbon is still very expensive to manufacture and is time consuming to do so.
Why would you want to cover up nicely machined and polished aluminum with some crappy cover that will likely end up rattling? Again, it's not some cheap, silver painted plastic. It's fine if you don't like it, but you haven't even sat in the car to judge one way or another
Just seems like you're still trying to find any reason possible to hate the car- the performance stacks up against some of the world's best. People seem to love the styling. What more do you want? Hatters gonna hat
If anything, I'm actually not a fan of the carbon fiber on the steering wheel. And I'm on the fence about the gauge cluster hood. Would have preferred those to be wrapped in alcantara.
Interesting trivia I stumbled upon: NSX will be the most expensive car built in the US currently:
Honda's new supercar already has many superlatives associated with it, but there's one that's unlikely to be at the top of anyone's list. The 2017 Acura NSX is the most expensive car built in America.
When it begins production this April at Honda's new Performance Manufacturing Center in Marysville, Ohio, the NSX will surpass the current titleholder of most expensive car built in the US, the Dodge Viper. This metric was discovered by Kelly Blue Book's managing director Matt DeLorenzo and reported by Biz Journals.
At $156,000, it surpasses the approximately $90,000 Viper by at least 50 percent. The FCA halo car is built at the Conner Avenue Assembly plant in Detroit, Michigan. Though Ford has a new, even more expensive supercar on the horizon in the form of the $400,000-plus GT, the NSX will still hold the title. That's because the Ford GT will be built by Multimatic Inc., a Ford supplier in Canada, which takes over production from previous generations of the Ford GT built in Detroit.
At top trim levels and loaded with optional equipment, the NSX will break the $200,000 mark. Other versions have been hinted at as well. Honda says that 800 units will be built in 2016, the first of which will be delivered shortly after production kicks off.
The unofficial lap time by Graham Rahal is pretty impressive. Who knows what he can really do in the NSX if he does a serious run (ie. putting his helmet on and actually drive seriously) and with the optional Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's instead of the Pirelli P-Zero Trofeo R's.
Most, if not all the latest reviews seem to say the NSX is also very fun to drive.
If it's not obvious, he said the car is extremely fun to drive (I explicitly asked this in one of the threads too).
And yup 5 seconds is huge for a track that is 1:20 to 1:30 long.....At Tsukuba, the NA2 NSX-R is a 1:05 car. The Alfa romeo 147 GTA is a 1:10 car and the Nismo R35 GT-R is a 1:01 car. Just to give you a reference as to what kind of difference we are talking about at 4-5 seconds.
+1, Most reviews of the final production NSX have iterated that it's a blast to drive at speed. Still waiting on instrumented tests, but it appears that some tweaking may have occured between last year's initial press fleet NSX's and the current production models (NPI/IP?).
One thing I found interesting from TOV site you linked was the engine details.
I was not expecting Ti rods (too expensive and other issues and not necessary for the street), but a little surprised the rods are outsourced to a Austrian metal fab and the pistons are also not forged.
The overall engine results are pretty impressive, just a little surprised Honda who likes to do things in house outsourced the block, heads, and rods.
As with the original NSX, the engineering team was aiming to keep the new NSX's center of gravity as low as possible. And again, the powertrain configuration was a crucial component in achieving that goal. Acura already had the J-series V6, a family of 60-degree V6s they could have tapped, but a 60-degree V6 would have been too tall and the center of mass would have been too high to meet the goals of this project. A 90-degree V6 (as in the original design) would have indeed offered a very low center of mass, but then packaging the duo of turbochargers on the outside of a 90-degree V-6 was suboptimal, as it would have required the NSX to be even wider. It turns out that an unusual 75-degree bank angle provided the optimum configuration for the project, and the fitment of a dry sump lubrication system allowed them to mount the engine an additional 2.4" lower within the chassis – in fact, the crank centerline of the engine is located below the plane of the axles. This engine is designated as JNC1, and it is pretty much a street legal racing engine. The block and heads are manufactured by Cosworth. The JNC1 features dual overhead cams with VTC (Variable Timing Control) on both cams. Interestingly, there is no valve lift control (VTEC) on the JNC1. The JNC1 also features a forged steel crank, forged steel connecting rods (manufactured by Pankl, of Austria), forged steel intake valves, forged steel (and sodium-filled) exhaust valves, cast aluminum pistons, and plasma transferred wire arc thermal spray lining the aluminum cylinder walls (this process saves over 7lbs of weight vs cast iron cylinder liners). The engine features a combination of direct injection as well as port fuel injection, and as mentioned, there is a pair of single scroll turbochargers (peak boost: 1.05bar, 15.23psi) featuring Inconel turbines and electric wastegates. The intake charge is cooled by a pair of sizeable (each one has an area of over 880cm2) air-to-air intercoolers. The intake manifold uses a two-into-one design with twin throttle bodies. It's done this way in order to minimize torque deviation between the two cylinder banks. Sandwiched between the engine and 9-speed dual clutch transmission is a direct drive electric motor, capable of contributing up to 47hp and 109lb-ft of torque.
My hate for the NSX has officially ended, as more and more details come out. I didn't know it had a dry sump lubrication system.
As for instrumented tests, the only thing I've heard is that it does 0-60 in 2.9s. Not sure how official that is, but still, it's nice to see it below the 3 second mark, even if just by a hair.
It's nice to see that Honda specifically set this thing up for future greater-ness. While there may be eager people to jump on the first model year, we all know that pretty much every car out there only gets better through its production life. The 2017s will be similar to the 1991 NSX... nice, but we everyone wants the later models
My hate for the NSX has officially ended, as more and more details come out. I didn't know it had a dry sump lubrication system.
As for instrumented tests, the only thing I've heard is that it does 0-60 in 2.9s. Not sure how official that is, but still, it's nice to see it below the 3 second mark, even if just by a hair.
It's nice to see that Honda specifically set this thing up for future greater-ness. While there may be eager people to jump on the first model year, we all know that pretty much every car out there only gets better through its production life. The 2017s will be similar to the 1991 NSX... nice, but we everyone wants the later models
I seriously wish Acura would figure out how to get all of its models to have rear biased SH-SH-AWD. I know it won't happen, but it would be so amazing.
And as far as updates, seeing how slow this thing has come to fruition makes me worry it will be a long time. I do, however, expect a facelift at some point to align itself with the precision concept.
^^Heh, yeah was a bit surprised as well when I saw Taco praising the NSX in the last few posts as more lap tests and interior and more details coming out. ;p
But I'm glad it's getting more positive attention. i think now that's finally out people are getting over the long long release delay and the product is getting people's favor.
Dry sump is now almost a requirement for many of these supercars (especially 100k+ cars).
Can't wait until the new NSX is being thrashed around tracks in proper driver hands so we can see some lap times.
I seriously wish Acura would figure out how to get all of its models to have rear biased SH-SH-AWD. I know it won't happen, but it would be so amazing.
And as far as updates, seeing how slow this thing has come to fruition makes me worry it will be a long time. I do, however, expect a facelift at some point to align itself with the precision concept.
I doubt it. The setup is all there. Pushing more boost and playing with the tune will likely net easy power. I doubt they would even have to replace or reengineer much, if anything, to put 50-100hp more down. A 3.5L V6 putting down only 500hp at the crank? Please. We don't even know much about the electric motors. Can they push more from them? Is there room for bigger ones? Etc., etc.
Compare that to the original NSX which after 6 years, put down 20hp more and didn't change for the following 8 years after that. NA engines are a bitch for that.
^^Heh, yeah was a bit surprised as well when I saw Taco praising the NSX in the last few posts as more lap tests and interior and more details coming out. ;p
I'm sure Acura and Honda really care about my personal opinion
With the unveiling of the NSX GT3 Race car, I think a RWD only NSX is a real possibility. They literally just need to make that car street legal and then call it the NSX-R and they are done.
The NSX engine, as Jeff said, is literally a street legal race engine. We all know that many components are outsourced. And it seems like Honda only uses the best suppliers for each component for the NSX. 500hp is probably just the beginning. They can turn up the boost by quite a bit. As far as turbo lag goes, chances are, the electric motors would pretty much cover it up.
For the electric motors and batteries, I think we just need to look at Tesla Model S. The technologies in this area seem to be evolving quickly.
That's it. I need to find a way to buy/lease one. It will happen, though financially speaking, I will be a second or third owner (ie I ain't payin' $200 large for one), and it's not going to happen for a year or two.
Oh Go dry hump a acura tailpipe. WHERE in that statement did i "hate" on it? Taco mentioned he liked the "ALL" black interior (which it isnt with the aluminium dash pieces) and all i said is they should have been CF (which would have been truly "ALL" black then. fanboy.
That's kind of a dumb argument. Acura isn't putting on some fly-by-night, VIS carbon fiber parts on their car. Have you noticed that all the carbon bits you can add to the NSX add up to like 45k? Granted, some of it is the "NSX premium" charge, but dry carbon is still very expensive to manufacture and is time consuming to do so.
Why would you want to cover up nicely machined and polished aluminum with some crappy cover that will likely end up rattling? Again, it's not some cheap, silver painted plastic. It's fine if you don't like it, but you haven't even sat in the car to judge one way or another
Just seems like you're still trying to find any reason possible to hate the car- the performance stacks up against some of the world's best. People seem to love the styling. What more do you want? Hatters gonna hat
Oh please. CF isnt that expensive, especially when bought in larger quantities or for non structural needs where a lot doesnt need to be layerd. I have about 6 yards of 10oz on a roll in my basement. The premium they are charging is something they can do because you know people will pay for it.
Why would i want "nicely" machined aluminum covered up? because i would prefer CF. Especially in the "all" black interior that you liked which isnt really all black with the Bright Alu showing. I dont need to sit in it to have an opinion of what i like and dont like. And ive never been a hater of the car. Just love giving them a hard time for how long its taken to get the damn thing made and to see the Fanboys reactions. (though i do have a right to my opinion and wanting more out of the brand which doesnt make me a hater)
Oh please. CF isnt that expensive, especially when bought in larger quantities or for non structural needs where a lot doesnt need to be layerd. I have about 6 yards of 10oz on a roll in my basement. The premium they are charging is something they can do because you know people will pay for it.
Why would i want "nicely" machined aluminum covered up? because i would prefer CF. Especially in the "all" black interior that you liked which isnt really all black with the Bright Alu showing. I dont need to sit in it to have an opinion of what i like and dont like. And ive never been a hater of the car. Just love giving them a hard time for how long its taken to get the damn thing made and to see the Fanboys reactions. (though i do have a right to my opinion and wanting more out of the brand which doesnt make me a hater)
See, again, you're comparing shitty basement carbon creations, compared to oem quality ones. NO current auto manufacturer has cheap, legitimate, dry carbon fiber parts. You can get aftermarket lowering springs for dirt cheap. The oem versions are probably three times the price. Same goes for carbon.
It seems everyone loved the exposed silver, vertical aluminum pieces on the 3G TL, because of the nice contrast they add to the otherwise all black interior. People only seem to start modding them when their oem pieces start getting beat up. SOME prefer a carbon look stock. 98% of others like the contrast. But calling it unrefined junk (I know you're dissing SSFTSX) is a bit much
I will agree with you about wanting more from the company though. It seems they are slowly moving in the right direction. At least I'm hoping. The changes to the 2017 MDX sound promising- the looks aren't the greatest, but everything else seems badass, in terms of changes to the drivetrain, power train and suspension. I'm hoping it all gets put into a TLX-S, save for the adaptive suspension.
All I really want to see in their line up now is a fun car again. One that average Joes like me can afford. While the NSX is fine and dandy, it's just a tiny bit out of my price range. Actually, two fun cars. I'd like to see the ILX come out in Type S guise, with a slightly detuned version of the CTR engine and transmission. I say detuned because we always get a few HP less than Japan, due to emissions. The second would be something like what the CL was. Any kind of coupe or convertible, for that matter. I doubt it will happen though. There's been nothing in the news about it.
With the unveiling of the NSX GT3 Race car, I think a RWD only NSX is a real possibility. They literally just need to make that car street legal and then call it the NSX-R and they are done.
The NSX engine, as Jeff said, is literally a street legal race engine. We all know that many components are outsourced. And it seems like Honda only uses the best suppliers for each component for the NSX. 500hp is probably just the beginning. They can turn up the boost by quite a bit. As far as turbo lag goes, chances are, the electric motors would pretty much cover it up.
For the electric motors and batteries, I think we just need to look at Tesla Model S. The technologies in this area seem to be evolving quickly.
Honda should have developed the new NSX using a RWD platform from day 1.
The new NSX should have come in as a light-weight RWD sport car, and with the RWD-base AWD as an option.
Honda should have developed the new NSX using a RWD platform from day 1.
The new NSX should have come in as a light-weight RWD sport car, and with the RWD-base AWD as an option.
I disagree.... Acura did the heavy lifting first by showcasing world-class hybrid engineering geared towards performance. It's gravy from here to unveil incrementally faster models that eschew the hybrid componentry. They effectively have a McLaren layout but in a superior design and in my opinion, superior engineering designed TO LAST.
See, again, you're comparing shitty basement carbon creations, compared to oem quality ones. NO current auto manufacturer has cheap, legitimate, dry carbon fiber parts. You can get aftermarket lowering springs for dirt cheap. The oem versions are probably three times the price. Same goes for carbon.
It seems everyone loved the exposed silver, vertical aluminum pieces on the 3G TL, because of the nice contrast they add to the otherwise all black interior. People only seem to start modding them when their oem pieces start getting beat up. SOME prefer a carbon look stock. 98% of others like the contrast. But calling it unrefined junk (I know you're dissing SSFTSX) is a bit much
I will agree with you about wanting more from the company though. It seems they are slowly moving in the right direction. At least I'm hoping. The changes to the 2017 MDX sound promising- the looks aren't the greatest, but everything else seems badass, in terms of changes to the drivetrain, power train and suspension. I'm hoping it all gets put into a TLX-S, save for the adaptive suspension.
All I really want to see in their line up now is a fun car again. One that average Joes like me can afford. While the NSX is fine and dandy, it's just a tiny bit out of my price range. Actually, two fun cars. I'd like to see the ILX come out in Type S guise, with a slightly detuned version of the CTR engine and transmission. I say detuned because we always get a few HP less than Japan, due to emissions. The second would be something like what the CL was. Any kind of coupe or convertible, for that matter. I doubt it will happen though. There's been nothing in the news about it.
See, again, im not comparing shitty basement carbon creations compared to oem quality ones. The carbon i have is more than just cheap stuff. Im just stating that it wouldnt be hard or that expensive to make a quality CF overlay (that didnt rattle) for the dash pieces. Especially for the manufacturer. If they offer all the other carbon bits, they should have made it an option for that as well.
And come on. You already know im dissing SSFTSX with the unrefined junk comment, so no it isnt a bit much and i would have thought you of all people should not have needed red text there
It is a bit interesting that the interior CF package does not add on more CF to the dash trim pieces as fsttyms1 mentioned...at least as an option. Bit odd as cars in this price range probably has competitive/similar options.
Honda should have developed the new NSX using a RWD platform from day 1.
The new NSX should have come in as a light-weight RWD sport car, and with the RWD-base AWD as an option.
There are many different possibilities that Honda could have explored, and I'm sure everyone has his/her own opinion as to what honda "should" do. This is something very subjective.
For me, I understand and respect Honda's decision in making the NSX an "everyday supercar" and I appreciate for what it is. Do I want a modern day S2000? Sure! But clearly, the NSX isn't something like that, and I don't have an issue with that. Would be nice if they do come up with a modern day S2k though.
03-21-2016, 04:52 PM
@"unrefined junk"
Wired
+1, Most reviews of the final production NSX have iterated that it's a blast to drive at speed. Still waiting on instrumented tests, but it appears that some tweaking may have occured between last year's initial press fleet NSX's and the current production models (NPI/IP?).
