Nexx

theyre giving their customers a choice. whats wrong with having choice?

Joneill44

ttribe

It's not an issue of "choice." Buyers of $200k+ supercars have all the "choices" in the world. If they want a certain tire, or set of wheels, etc. on their supercars, dealers bend over backwards to make it happen for them. This is totally unnecessary. Moreover, assuming you've read any of the extant reviews, you know that this is a performance car and every reviewer that switched between a NSX with the "all season" tires and the uhp tires commented how much the performance was impaired with the all season tires. Acura wants to be taken seriously in this space? Start acting like one of the big boys who now how to cater to their supercar customers.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Legend2TL

Great video, thx for posting explains alot of the design and backstory.
Oh and Michelle is pretty hot looking as well

Nexx

you do realize all NSX's are built to order. during the order process you get to choose which tires you want. you would be surprised how many "supercar" customers dont really push their supercars.

ttribe

Yes, I know. Look, so much of this market is about perception. Like it or not, offering an "all season" tire for your halo-supercar speaks more to your roots as a purveyor of mini-vans, suvs and family sedans. It just does. I don't know what else to tell you. The motoring press seems puzzled by the offering; that's not a good sign.

mangoman75

All season tires should've been optional tires and UHP tires should've been default. meaning if they really wanted this to be marketed as an everyday super car, it should've been equipped default like a super car. you don't see other super cars being equipped with all season tires as default which hinders full performance... whatever the buyers do after the purchase is up to them. and i don't think ultimately people here are bashing the car (maybe some are).. more like people are bashing Acura for how they're marketing and selling this "halo car" with not so super car worthy default equipment.

nist7

Yeah was a nice video..Leno's garage is always awesome

Small glimpse into the work and time that it takes to build a supercar.

If only I were in a financial situation like Leno after a 20-30min drive....ok yeah, this is a nice car, let's order one!

Legend2TL

Be a cool place to hang out for a day. IIRC Leno employs something like ~6 mechanic/techs to work on his collection.

I find the behind the scenes equally fascinating for car project/programs, racing or production. She was pretty frank about the reconfiguration of the drive-train and redesigning the exterior as well as for various regulations.

I realize that Leno was a previously paid by Acura but he did ask some more pointed questions (Cd which the chief manager/engineer evaded to answering by saying different windtunnels give different Cd's which didn't make sense to me but I'm SME on aero either).

The animation of the CFD airflow flowing through the NSX multiple times (leaving one vent, flow along the body and reenter another vent) to cool different things from front to back was also very cool.

Also liked how she was candid that she was not a fan of the rear spoiler after a couple tries by Leno. Also agree with her that the stock wheels look the best with the car.

nist7

^^^Yeah.

Obviously she and the guy and maybe even Leno had behind the stage PR-coaching as well.

After all Leno will not bash on the car. But the test drive didn't seem to reveal too much except he just liked the car.

I was hoping to see some more critical comments from Leno but there may be other forces at work that prevented him from saying those things to air on his show.

Since the new SH-AWD tech is such a big piece of the NSX (few other cars have similarly advanced hybrid tech) was hoping he'd make more comments on the handling/turning

TacoBello

In how many different ways to you want to hear that the handling/turning is anemic and soulless?

Hey, don't take my word for it. I just listen to the guys who drove this thing.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Talking about tires....I don't recall seeing an option to choose the tires in the configurator?

Legend2TL

Yeah, I was sorta hoping for some comments on handling and steering feedback but perhaps it was sorta a puff piece with a few fast balls tossed in.
I also like when she pointed out the last channel airflow duct build into the rear deck.

If anything I was impressed by her, she's really young for having taken on such a important project for Honda.

BTW, I meant to say "I'm no SME on aero either"

mangoman75

you're right. they only display sizes on the site. when i configured it with default wheels below is the only information they gave.

245/35ZR19 93Y SOT
305/30ZR20 103Y SOT

does anyone know what "SOT" at the end stands for?

00TL-P3.2

"Super Offroad Tires"?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

haha no idea.....would like to know too......does that mean it will only come with one choice of tires?

Fibonacci

Very vague information at the dealer level still about how they are handling sales.

Still no official word on allocation and the special order "kiosk" for lack of a better definition is no different than the Acura website. A bit of an odd rollout if you ask me.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

I bet that when it comes down to it a buyer can dictate to the dealership whatever tires they want on their nsx and that's what they'll get.

ttribe

You have a gift for understatement.

mangoman75

that's with any other cars.. if you have the money, dealer will put on any tires for the car you want..

TacoBello

Yes, but then you are paying for two sets of tires

The dealership isn't going to pull the OEM tires off and put new, different ones on for nothing.

SSFTSX

These are very reasonable size tires. Compared the size on Corvette that car and driver tested. The front tire alone was 285 wide and needed pilot sport cup for handling.
That's the difference between real and pesudo car.

SamDoe1

Cd is an experimentally derived value as a function of fluid density (specified), flow speed (should probably know this), and frontal area (can be easily calculated using CAD tools), and drag force (measured in test). It does require a real test so it is plausible that the values do drift from tunnel to tunnel.

That said, it shouldn't drift by that much that they can't state what an average is unless the measurement instrumentation is drastically different and/or out of calibration.

SamDoe1

sidewall over tread

mangoman75

obviously you haven't read anything that's going on in this thread... this shows only the SIZE of the tires.. not what type of tires they come with as default which we are interested to find out. and as your reasoning dictates, NSX can either fly or crawl like a worm depending on what type of tires it comes with.

and what the heck do you mean it's a pseudo car? so under your logic, any car with smaller wheel size is a pseudo car?

TacoBello

Oh, mango. He's just our resident tool. We generally don't pay attention to him, unless, of course, it's a slow day at work

Just wait until he starts on about the NSX's best and highest in class ground clearance. You know, for off-road purposes. Or the superduper aerodynamic mirrors on his TSX that Honda spent millennia designing. Or th...

fsttyms1

dot forget on how low his NVH is and how much faster than supercars it is from 80-120 despite having all season tires.

fsttyms1

Why would we want to either? Only a idiot would buy a supercar and want all season tires on it, then want to go test it against other cars that were never designed to run them to see how they handle.

fsttyms1

No kidding, one could see it was on a twisty mountain road.

I guarantee it had the summer tire package, And yes HP/Tq DOES matter and it shows you really have ZERO concept of what you are talking about. If you dont have the power you dont accelerate out of corners. Then there is still the fact its a 10 year old 4000 lb sedan that you for some reason think is an acceptable and logical vehicle as a comparison vehicle as if buyers of the new NSX will pull out an old Car and Driver, read it and say hey, the NSX has better specs and is faster let alone call the old Audi a supercar By your logic then i should be able to compare my friends STI subaru. Its about the same age as the Audi, makes more power than the Audi and will hand the new NSX its own ass in handling, and that is after i ask him to take off his R compound tires in favor of a tire that has a 300 treadware rating

TacoBello

I'm still confused on how SSFTSX thinks it's logical to compare a 70k, decade old car to a 150k, brand new car

But then again, If he's solely looking at 2007 models, I'd like him to compare the 2007 Acura NSX to the 2007 RS4

ttribe

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

okay.

do you think people buying an nsx are on a limited budget? do you think if paying for another set of tires was a deal breaker that the dealership would let the buyer walk?

mangoman75

i don't think that's the point... point is why did acura release a super car with not so super tires on their initial preview as default tires... and why they won't release any tire information on their build site... are they trying to hide something? i don't know but it just doesn't make sense... as you said people who can afford NSX aren't probably bound by budget and they'll buy it anyway they can... this nickel and dime-ing won't matter to prospective buyers.. so question is why did acura do this to themselves? why didn't they install UHP tires as default and call it a day? maybe it was just a bad marketing decision? it all just seems odd...

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

maybe it has to do with being touted as an "everyday supercar"?

TacoBello

Yes. I do. At least a good chunk of people who want to buy it are. You should visit the nsx forum and see what people are saying about it. People who were 1st or 2nd owners of an NSX are either saying "no way", or "potential 3rd owner". People who could afford the original new are now looking further down the used line. Because they have limited budgets. Big, but still limited budgets. I don't think people who have unlimited budgets really consider an NSX. Maybe as a 10th exotic just to sit and rot. Maybe drive it only on days that hail storms are expected.

Acura is hoping for an all new buyer, for the most part, with this car. I think they priced themselves out of the segment that wants to buy this, and priced themselves into the segment that has people with more money and more options.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

honestly, I think if the kind of tires that might come on the car is a deal breaker for a potential buyer they weren't that interested in the first place. if I were seriously considering spending close or more than $200k on a car, having to spend a few extra dollars to upgrade a perishable item wouldn't be an issue for me. maybe that's just me? tires need to be replaced on a regular basis anyway.

we've already seen at least two people with unlimited budgets purchasing an nsx in this thread: leno and hendrick.

the local acura dealership where I live offers special packages for new car purchases. example, they offer a protection package that comes with a trunk mat, clear bra, mud flaps and a few other items. point being, I wouldn't be surprised to see dealerships offering whatever tires the buyer wants.

SSFTSX

I am sure you have heared the tire screeching sound from AUDI. and AUDI was cheating by coming into the center of road so his handling would not suffer in turns. speed only slows down when you take tighter turns. AUDI was not taking tighter turns. simply the turns of AUDI were too wide. that should compensate handling deficit and loss of momentum. there reason that tire got burst.

nist7

I think so as well and agree on your thoguhts. I took an interesting gander over at NSXPrime. (should go there more often to drool at 1g NSX porn....)

Definitely there are some people who are "budgeting" for an NSX...with all the threads about dealers marking it up...but what's also interesting is that there are lots of posts/threads about how dealers are making 10-75k market adjustments over MSRP!

So this seems to me then the dealers somehow "know" there will be hot demand...not sure if they do any pre-sale market studies to see what kind of actual selling price the new NSX can sustain. The mark up stories and how hard it is to get MSRP prices seem like there is a demand for the small allocation of cars.

Some will be for the super rich. One guy actually bought a LFA while waiting for the NSX...and will wait for a revised/spider version of the NSX to get later down the road (incidentally he had incredible praises for the LFA and touted some friends who sold off the 599s and kept the LFA....nice job by Toyota then.)

Another guy wants to sue his dealer for a mark up after he signed an MSRP buyer agreement back in 2000....

Telling information on an experience of another poster on his quest to get a MSRP car:

source: http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showth...rsuit-Of-A-NSX


SO it seems a mix of buyers....those who really really want one and may be stretching their own finances to get one (by how many are really trying to get one at MSRP) and some who obviously have F U money and just buy it at their pleasure (the LFA owner though he will be delaying for later models, and the alleged popularity of allocations being sold and premiums be put up on the MSRPs.

I was looking to see if I can find a thread on their forum to the topic of "What's your occupation/salary?" to have an informal gauge of the type of owners but haven't yet with success. Of course those who can afford a 30-60k 1g NSX will likely be much diff than those who can afford a 150k-200k 2g NSX....

Would be interesting to see exactly what kind of in-house research/results Acura came up with to target the NSX with their price range and what kind of buyers they are attracting.

Certainly an insightful wisdom I've read is that those who buy these types of luxury items at such costs SHOULD have a much higher discretionary spending limit and that those who can "barely" afford a 150k-200k cannot afford it at all. I work with individuals who earn about 200-300k a year and I highly doubt they can afford something like this (mostly Teslas, recent 911s, 3/5-series, MB, lots more corollas/camrys/ etc.) though of course they are likely not huge car enthusiasts either.

As I think it has been discussed elsewhere....one would probably at LEAST be in the 1% income range to be anywhere close to comfortably afford a 200k car.

Though in that range there are many other options as has been discussed elsewhere as well. Though the LFA buyer did have something that was not so shocking to us:

source: http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showth...=1#post1885824

TacoBello

Yes, because they are considered to be the typical NSX buyer