CCColtsicehockey

I have an AEM Failsafe gauge setup in my TSX. So definitely would be used to the LED bar for sure.

Majofo

That's a nice gauge

CCColtsicehockey

Just received the quote. Just under $7k for full tear down and rebuild with honing the block, new cam bearings, rings, forged pistons, jhr custom grind cam, springs, push rods, trunnions, all new gaskets everywhere, arp bolts throughout, mellings high pressure oil pump, and all the labor to go with.

Majofo

I'm not saying that price is bad.. I am saying most of it is unnecessary.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

Expensive, but hey - gotta pay to play.

If you ever choose to do 600whp+, it sounds like you're already ahead of the game.

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

Fuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

CCColtsicehockey

I haven't agreed to it yet so what you think is unnecessary? I am open to hearing everything that could save me some coin on this.

CCColtsicehockey

Also a guy on the CTS-V forum said that I need to get rid of the primary cats cause they could end up killing the engine again with the mods I am planning. Any thought thoughts? If I should just gut those I might as well just add kooks headers to the list.

Majofo

Well.. several things here.. I don't know the full details, but the cam bearings, trunnions, custom cam, push rods, springs / spring kit?, arp bolts, and hp oil pump are performance adders..
You don't need to go this route to resolve your issues, and they're probably half the cost of their estimate. Now... if you want them.. price ain't bad. That being said, stock LSA components are solid (make sure you keep the old parts)

The forged pistons, rings, and hone... mixed bag. How much are the forged pistons (ling?) vs the OE cast aluminum pistons? If it's not much, I'd go forged. Is there an option to use the ZR1 pistons and rings?
I'd do a cost breakdown of all of this. But new forged pistons and rings is the other half of this equation. The OE cast alum pistons hold plenty (some on near 1000 hp builds). Forged is better, but as long as your tune is conservative, shouldn't be an issue.
My guess is there's a few hundred dollar difference here. Go forged.. although.. asking on the forum if anyone has their OE pistons up for grabs, not a bad idea. Check with the ZL1 folks too, could save some money here.

Regarding the hone.. well.. are they simply going to deglaze it to get good ring seal or pull the engine and do a proper deck plate hone like they do from the factory.
Some would say it's overkill.. shadetree hone that bitch, deglaze it and be done. I say a soft hone / deglaze is all it needs. Did they indicate any cylinder wall damage or glazing?

Majofo

If your tune is conservative, I find no reason your cats would fail you.
Now... replacing the cats for performance.. well...
I wouldn't core them out. I'd remove and get race / test pipes.
You could probably sell the cats for more than the cost of race pipes.

Majofo

Kooks headers / race pipes would be tits.. V would be so mean.. $$$ though.

Majofo

I'll say this.. you're a performance shop. They're going to want to do the job they'd want to do on a shop car.
Not just to make money (yes to make money!), but also, they're in there.. why not put marble floors in and gold spec quartz countertop?
It doesn't need it, but many customers are going to agree with this logic, especially when they're modifying their rides for performance.
I'm more.. flip it for the most resale. If the quartz is just a hair more than the corian, why not.
Main difference here is the LSA has been proven to take to power adders very well without any internal mods.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I am sorry you're going through this, Jason...
I'd be losing sleep over a potential bill that high.
I'm with Joe though...I'd be going the opposite route and getting back to as close to stock as possible.
I likely won't be going any further than where I'm at now.

TLDude876

iTrader: (7)

The whole ordeal sucks man but that's a part of life. It could be way worse than it is. On the bright side, you'll have a healthy car for years to come.

JT4

I really feel for you because it's one thing if you brought in a "grenaded" engine, you would expect the worst. But since you brought in a running car to get some improvements done, then to be hit with a $7K bill, I would be in a state of shock.. I really hope it all works out for you...

I know you won't know for sure until its on the dyno. But based on the quote the shop proposed, did they give you an estimated HP this build will/may produce?

CCColtsicehockey

Ok so here are the details of the compression/leak test. (These numbers are the percentage of leak not the compression it held)
Cyl1. 15%
Cyl2. 10%
Cyl3. 40%
Cyl4. 14%
Cyl5. 15%
Cyl6. 50%
Cyl7. 40%
Cyl8. 10%

Basically I want to do anything that doesn't cost me $3-4k as a single part now or that would cost me a lot in labor to do at a later date. I want to make this bullit proof while it is apart for anything I may possibly down the road want to throw at it.

The prices they gave me for forged pistons were just a few hundred more than OE so I figured why not at this point really.

They are pulling the motor out of the car so I would imagine it is going to get a deck plat hone. The line item on the quote word for word is (R&R LSA Engine Dissasembile clean hone block, new cam bearings, rings, and CP drop in pistons, deck cylinder heads (Machine work could change if cylinders need machining for a 10 over piston))


I have not paid much attention to the front cats. Can they just be unbolted and a test pipe bolted in?
Kook headers and green cats is probably the way I would go. I am not sure I want the raw fuel smell all the time on a DD. Not sure what that would add cost wise. I am sure with install it is probably another $2000+ and would not be hard to do down the road really.


I am not apposed to this approach. I prefer to do things once and not have to come back and upgrade down the road. Obviously this is within reason. I am at the point with this repair I am pulling money out of investments. This has gone over what I had planned on spending on the car this year and next year basically but at the same time I want to do it once so I am not losing sleep over it or anything. I am not looking to sell the car anytime soon so resale value is not really a priority at this point. This car and as rare as it is I might try and keep forever honestly and the next car might be an addition not a replacement so putting in the good stuff might be the best long term plan.

thoiboi

bummer.. that's 5/8 under 40%


yup i can read

CCColtsicehockey

I guess I am of the opposite opinion. If something breaks then it is the perfect time to do an upgrade. If you are going to spend money already to get back to stock if it isn't much more for an upgrade and you are out the labor to do the work either way then it is the time for it. My real concern is if I have been down power all along as they are implying baced on the compression numbers then with this rebuild it is going to be like a 200hp gain on the car and how will I hand that?

I am just glad it was caught now before the motor let go completely. I am not sure what I would be doing with the car if I need a complete motor.

Yeah it does bug me that I thought I had bought a good car. I had thought I knew enough and did my homework and when I went to look at the car I thought it was a good one and made the deal. Now it makes me wonder was this issue there from the get go. Makes me question my own knowledge a bit on this stuff. I don't imply to be any expert or anything though but still. My mistake I think is that I had not driven any other V during my search. I found one wagon and it was fairly local and I went for it. I should have test drove the coupe being sold by a dealer just down the street but to have a car to compare to I guess. Hind sight is always better though.

I don't have an estimate from the shop but from reading the mods and hp output thread on ctsvowners I would guess somewhere between 575-600 now that I am adding a cam. I would imagine low 600 at least if I would end up adding headers as well.

Basically I am going to end up building everything engine wise I might have done over the life of the car almost in one build at one time with nothing left to do but exterior aero pieces and whels down the road. Not a bad thing but would have been nice to have the bill spread out over a couple of years.

CCColtsicehockey

Actually those are the amount of leak. So only 3 cylinders are bad and the other 5 fall within GMs ok range but are higher than what the shop would like to see in a performance motor. 30% is the max leak GM says you can see across the board for all their car and still have ok performance. With 2 being 40% and 1 being 50% I am way out of line for the 30% numbers sadly. If they would all have been 14 or 15% I would just be letting it go at this point knowing a rebuild might be needed down the road.

CCColtsicehockey

Another things regarding this Majofo. If I slowly doing this build I would love to save some coin and go the route of getting some used parts to throw in from the forum. I am hoping to get this back on the road as quick as possible. I have other cars to drive but I feel like if I am trying to source parts and look for deals on forums this could end up dragging out into a 2 month project. We are already looking at a 1 month project for sure. I don't mind driving my parents old beater tahoe for a while but I can tell you I do miss the V. Heck I missed the V while I had it cause once they knew the pump was bad they told me I could still drive it without damage but drive it like a grandma and stay out of boost which I did for the last 3 weeks and it sucked.

thoiboi

Evidently I CAN'T read..


That's better though.


If it's a car you plan on keeping for a while, I'd also go ahead and do all the power upgrades now while it is already apart.

Majofo

Essentially
10% 40%
50% 15%
14% 40%
10% 15%

1 - 8 - 7 - 2 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3
low, low, high, low, high, low, low, high
I don't think it's related to flow.

Install headers $2k.. no way. Engine is out.. just the price of longtube headers (~$1k).
Yeah, cats are direct bolt replacement. Test pipe should be easy fit and cheap.
I honestly don't think you have exhaust restriction. Longtube headers are nice, but test pipe / hi-flow cats and be done.

Definitely go forged if it's just a few bills more. I don't think the heads are going to fail you.
I'm new to the LSx world, but to me the add-ons are more risky than keeping it stock.
What improvement do the cams and springs have over OE? Is it quantifiable and a history of reliablity.

The hone sounds good. Is there a guarantee that if they fux it, they replace it?





So much shame.. really mang.. pack it in for today.

Majofo

I checked your vowners thread.. that guy.. Build the bottom end and do catted (green cats)headers if you want cats.

Umm.. does he think the exhaust is what's commonly referred as the bottom end. Jeez.. yeah.. my sentiments still apply about that place.
I'd take that guy's advice with a grain of salt.

ttribe

Yikes! I thought it was bad that I just had to spend $3k on new fuel injectors and intake assembly...

Majofo

Also.. if you're really going for headers.. many companies make headers for the V. I saw 1-3/4 or 7/8 Billy Boat longtube headers for $850.
Any muffler shop can fab race / test pipe for you. Worst case, buy them off the shelf for a couple of bills.
I don't think you're going to get huge gains from headers to be honest.. and that guys sentiments that your cats are 100% going to fail.. well..



They'll only stress more if you're consistently running rich. I'm sure the shop will recommend test pipe. Cheapest bang for your buck.

Majofo

That is bad.. and you should feel bad.

That $7k price is labor included.. if the adders really add.. that's not a bad price at all.

JT4

I agree, I would be doing the same thing at this point if I was faced with your situation.. And you're right, definitely would have been nice if you could have done this over a couple of years at your own pace.. Sometimes things just don't go as planned...

ttribe

Oh, I feel plenty bad about my repair bill...worry not.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I'd hone the power bottom

Majofo

Trade it in before oil pump fails and it explodes.. get CTS-V

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

evidently, getting a CTS-V will net the same result

Majofo

You're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy..

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

and a new stereotype!

Majofo

Well.. that's to be expected. I'm thinking of replacing my Caddy badges with Acura badges.

ttribe

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

The CTS-V is known to have veinos failure?

CCColtsicehockey

With those numbers do you still think it could be head gasket or you think now it is more likely piston rings?

My new exhaust has slightly larger piping than stock. I think only about 1/4in larger and it still has the same crush spots as the factory exhaust. It does not have the rear cats though anymore.

No idea if the hone has a guarentee if they fux it up. Never thought about asking about that.

I have read that people say replacing the springs every 75k miles or so for reliabilty reasons is a good idea but not required. GM doesn't say that though but I am almost at 80k miles and with the added boost it makes sense for a stronger spring to help close the valves to me at least.
Yeah he is definitely very high on building the bottom end and those green cats it seems. I am not taking anyone persons total advice and one reason why I like having two threads going. I wish that place was more active and you could get more feedback than just one or two people.

If I do headers from my research I think I really want to go Kooks long tubes with an xpipe from them of some sort to my mufflers I have right now. I don't fully know if that is the way I want to go at this point though. I might leave that till another time and throw some test pipes in the car for the time being. Kooks long tubes and their xpipe is at least 1600 with no cats and 2500 if I go with green cats. They do sound good you can't argue that.

CCColtsicehockey

Yeah thankfully it isn't just parts. Also, since the motor will be out a good bit off my labor has been reduced on the bill I had for the other stuff I was doing that the car originally came into the shop for.

Things have definitely not gone as planned But that is life I guess.



damn that is hateful towards caddy

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I know it'll be worth what you're doing Jason.
It's not because it's too much...i'ts because I'm a cheap fux.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I know it'll be worth what you're doing Jason.
It's not because it's too much...i'ts because I'm a cheap fux.