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What does an M5 go for? Any Porsche Panameras in its performance range?
$103,000. As far as Panameras, the Turbo & Turbo S Hybrid are similar in performance, but a minimum of $50,000 over the M5. Closest Panamera in price is the 4S, and it's not really close at all.
My only qualm with the M5 is that the current generation is vastly shadowed over by everyone else right now. It's definitely a more conservative style that stays close to the 5 Series lineup (like the E39 M5 did; nothing to really stand out), and it's not talked about much. Still a lot of praise for it independently. It feels like the underdog when its put in conversation against what everyone else is building.
^M5's focus is E63, not on those super cars. Just like E63, people who follow these cars will know them.
a well equipped Turbo, (Not turbo S), Not fully loaded and not S is about $180k and it is not faster (could be slower) than an M5. But it is a Porsche.. so that itself is worth $xx,xxx to some people.
Leasing is about $1000 a month more than the M5.
Argh, AZ uploader put them in a wacky order. But I don't feel like making a new thread, nevermind resorting this mess on my phone.
Went to Munich for Oktoberfest then Stuttgart. Visited the BMW, MB, and Porsche museums. Saw some absolutely pristine models (must have spent 10 minutes gawking the E30 M3) up close. Well worth the entrance fees.
As for the first two seemingly random pics, I simply asked for stickshift rentals. They both happened to be diesel, which is relatively cheap over there.
The Opel Insignia (Buick Regal) wagon had the vaguest shifter I've had the displeasure of driving in a newer car. Diesel was also very noisy in the freeway high speeds (100+)
A3 TDI was a sweetheart. Quick and accurate steering, nice enough shifter for a luxury-ish car. Managed to get up to ~125mph on the Autobahn with it.
Next time I will plan it out better and make a trip to the Nurburgring. You can rent a track prepared vehicle and even have an instructor go with you.
I only had time to check out the MB museum when I was there, not too long ago. Loved every minute of it. I wanted to hit up the Porsche museum also, but being with two women, they had enough of me drooling over cars
RE: Nurburgring. Make sure you read your rental agreement in full. A lot of Euro car rental places have a Nurburgring exclusion for their cars. That's where the local track rental is the way to go.
RE: Nurburgring. Make sure you read your rental agreement in full. A lot of Euro car rental places have a Nurburgring exclusion for their cars. That's where the local track rental is the way to go.
Good point!
Yeah, I wasn't planning on bringing the rental onto the track. Rather, I was gonna drive to the ring, then get a rental there with insurance.
One company offered stock cars to try, varying from stock GTIs and Civic Type Rs up to an M2 or even a GT3.
I’m sure it goes without saying, but know that track thoroughly. There are a few corners that are extremely unsuspecting and if you’re flying up to them, well, you’re boned. And you’re on the hook for the price of the car... assuming you’re not dead.
300SL definitely had mystique about it, but that was the cleanest E30 I've ever seen. Recaros, suede steering wheel. I was so in awe I forgot to take an interior photo.
I’m sure it goes without saying, but know that track thoroughly. There are a few corners that are extremely unsuspecting and if you’re flying up to them, well, you’re boned. And you’re on the hook for the price of the car... assuming you’re not dead.
Ye, it's definitely a daunting track. I'd probably practice it many, many times on Forza or something first, then baby it for the first lap. Probably do at least 3-4 laps, ideally. Gradually ramp up the pace with each one.
I definitely wouldn't go for a fast time, merely just at a comfortably brisk pace. The lack of real runoff scares me. Instructor would be a great idea.
Yeah, I wasn't planning on bringing the rental onto the track. Rather, I was gonna drive to the ring, then get a rental there with insurance.
One company offered stock cars to try, varying from stock GTIs and Civic Type Rs up to an M2 or even a GT3.
I think a DSG GTI would be good fun around the 'Ring.
Originally Posted by TacoBello
I’m sure it goes without saying, but know that track thoroughly. There are a few corners that are extremely unsuspecting and if you’re flying up to them, well, you’re boned. And you’re on the hook for the price of the car... assuming you’re not dead.
Surprisingly, they say that games like Gran Turismo & Forza aren't bad for learning the track, just don't take the game speeds as any relevant reference.
Originally Posted by Costco
300SL definitely had mystique about it, but that was the cleanest E30 I've ever seen. Recaros, suede steering wheel. I was so in awe I forgot to take an interior photo.
300SL is one of my grail cars, but I'd spend much time ogling the 300SLR.
From running the Ring so many times in GT, I'd be wayyyy too scared to run in IRL even with my personal car unless I know a) free insurance and b) nobody else is running.
I will most likely be visiting next year. my GF asked me why Germany, i said to drive on autobahn.... you can guess her reaction
I am not gonna go crazy.. but the fact that i drove on the Ring and Autobahn is enough for me.
Collector car criteria? Relatively limited production or trim level, relatively high price tag when new, unique powertrain, high performance for its time, boom. Collector car.
Throw in Mk4 R32 in there as well.
Future collector car would be a 981 GT4 I'd think.
Costco is gonna be setting 25 minute laps times. He's got nothing to worry about
That's if there's no traffic on the Ring holding me back!
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
I will most likely be visiting next year. my GF asked me why Germany, i said to drive on autobahn.... you can guess her reaction
I am not gonna go crazy.. but the fact that i drove on the Ring and Autobahn is enough for me.
It's crazy how good the drivers there are, generally. Next time I'm gonna rent something with more power.
I heard there are a lot less "entitled" people there.
In the US. if i am holding traffic doing 65 in the fast lane, i am doing the speedlimit. fuck yall. If i see a car coming up fast behind me, instead of moving to the right, I brake check yo ass.
Collector car criteria? Relatively limited production or trim level, relatively high price tag when new, unique powertrain, high performance for its time, boom. Collector car.
Throw in Mk4 R32 in there as well.
Future collector car would be a 981 GT4 I'd think.
I don't think the high price tag has anything to do with it simply because the Mk4 R32 and the S2000 were never expensive but here we are. Instead I'd toss in the "nothing else like it in production today" requirement.
I will most likely be visiting next year. my GF asked me why Germany, i said to drive on autobahn.... you can guess her reaction
I am not gonna go crazy.. but the fact that i drove on the Ring and Autobahn is enough for me.
autobahn is fine. Generally there are different speed limits for every lane down a section of autobahn. Big trucks must stay in the right lane... also the slowest speed limit. The very left lane is the fastest. And sometimes speed limitless (but not always). You better be flying when you get into a left lane though. I remember we were going 180km/h in the left, and an S class benz pulled up right to the bumper, flashing high beams and honking his horn. He was pissed he got cut off (I wasn’t driving). He must’ve been doing 230-240km/h.
Many cars over there are limited to 240km/h anyway.
It grows kind of old, kind of fast. I mean, it’s just getting to wherever your going, just like everyone around you. After five minutes you get bored of staying super focused on what is in front of you, and you end up slowing down anyway.
autobahn is fine. Generally there are different speed limits for every lane down a section of autobahn. Big trucks must stay in the right lane... also the slowest speed limit. The very left lane is the fastest. And sometimes speed limitless (but not always). You better be flying when you get into a left lane though. I remember we were going 180km/h in the left, and an S class benz pulled up right to the bumper, flashing high beams and honking his horn. He was pissed he got cut off (I wasn’t driving). He must’ve been doing 230-240km/h.
Many cars over there are limited to 240km/h anyway.
It grows kind of old, kind of fast. I mean, it’s just getting to wherever your going, just like everyone around you. After five minutes you get bored of staying super focused on what is in front of you, and you end up slowing down anyway.
We always want what we dont have. That is why i said i just want to experience it, that is all i need.
I felt that their highway systems, and driving laws in general are way ahead of the curve. Coming back here, all I wanted to do was punch drivers all around me.
I don't think the high price tag has anything to do with it simply because the Mk4 R32 and the S2000 were never expensive but here we are. Instead I'd toss in the "nothing else like it in production today" requirement.
They weren't prohibitively expensive, not at all.
But compared to everything else in Honda and VW's lineups at the time, they were up there. Majority of your Civic owners and Jetta owners weren't trading in to get a new R32 or S2000.
I felt that their highway systems, and driving laws in general are way ahead of the curve. Coming back here, all I wanted to do was punch drivers all around me.
Totally. I believe to get your license there requires a pretty hefty fee, and to be able to drive a manual requires a separate certification process.
I miss how their lights work, in a way. There's separate ones for pedestrians and bicycles. And the light turns yellow for half a second before it turns green.
Originally Posted by kurtatx
Yup. Think R8, not NSX.
I think the NSX will be. Your average R8, ehh. Maybe a special edition version?
But compared to everything else in Honda and VW's lineups at the time, they were up there. Majority of your Civic owners and Jetta owners weren't trading in to get a new R32 or S2000.
Well no but the high pricetag isn't what's giving them collector status, it was more about what they are vs what they cost. The R32 was a bonkers hatchback with a V6 engine and AWD, the S2000 was a tiny impractical Japanese roadster that, while sublime to drive, wasn't (isn't?) the best daily. Of course people weren't trading their more pedestrian models for these unique ones much in the same way that no one is trading their Focus SE in for an RS even today.
I'd say if you want to continue your list of future collector cars I'd also add the Toyota MR2, Pontiac G8 GXP, Chevy SS, E46 M3, BMW 1M (already there), Dodge Viper, CTSV wagon, Lancer Evo, Mustang Boss 302, Shelby GT350/GT500, any Lotus model, etc...
...so, not big shoes. Only size 8 feet. 
Surprisingly, they say that games like Gran Turismo & Forza aren't bad for learning the track, just don't take the game speeds as any relevant reference.
