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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 11:48 AM
  #17281  
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Originally Posted by Costco
Yeah, no.

I guess I'm a cheap bastard. I would be butthurt about having to source a used $3,000 engine, forget paying five digits for a crate motor. But I'm one of the few that are happy with 200 bhp.
Every time on my commute, I fantasize about a M5 or used 63AMG, I go to that post on my bookmark, or head bolt thread on my bookmark. It is a good reminder to myself.
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 11:50 AM
  #17282  
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6.2L AMG engine is fine, just replace the head bolts. No brainer.
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 11:51 AM
  #17283  
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Originally Posted by Costco
Yeah, no.

I guess I'm a cheap bastard. I would be butthurt about having to source a used $3,000 engine, forget paying five digits for a crate motor. But I'm one of the few that are happy with 200 bhp.
3k.. you must be sniffing glue.
You'd be lucky to find that exotic V10 used for 8k.
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 12:42 PM
  #17284  
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Does BMW still make the S85 engine?
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 12:52 PM
  #17285  
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Ha.. local CL

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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 01:03 PM
  #17286  
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Originally Posted by ttribe
I got in early on the 3rd party warranty for the E60 M5 when I bought mine in 2011; within less than a year, most of those companies were doing everything they could to get out of those warranties and weren't writing new ones. I'd be very surprised if any reputable firm offered a warranty for the E60 M5 at this point that was even remotely affordable.
Yup, there aren't many companies (reputable or not) that are going to warranty that POS. It's a great car but the reliability is next to zero.

Originally Posted by 2012wagon
My favorite post
Good lord, that's not even worth it. I'll just play some youtube videos to hear the sound and call it a day.

Originally Posted by Majofo
6.2L AMG engine is fine, just replace the head bolts. No brainer.
It's not that easy of a job lol. And the 5.5L AMG motors are pretty bulletproof so I'd almost just go there.
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 01:07 PM
  #17287  
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Actually.. it is.
5.5L is fine, but it's not a 6.2L.. and that's not a statement about displacement.
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 01:08 PM
  #17288  
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Originally Posted by Majofo
Or... my next project could be a W220 Straight Piped S6hundiddddddd
Probably

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-iV59F7E7s
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 01:59 PM
  #17289  
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Originally Posted by Majofo
Ha.. local CL

I wonder if cars like this just sit unsold on shitty dealer lots or if they go through being sold with high APRs, repo'd for issues, and auctioned and resold over and over.

I don't know how much a SMG pump costs to replace but I wouldn't pay $14K for a ten-year old M5 with 114K miles on it that won't move.
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 02:07 PM
  #17290  
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in the future; we'll find them in barns.
OH SHIT, look at this cool barn find i found!!!!!
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 02:16 PM
  #17291  
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No, I think he's actually only seeking $13
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 03:15 PM
  #17292  
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Originally Posted by charliemike
I wonder if cars like this just sit unsold on shitty dealer lots or if they go through being sold with high APRs, repo'd for issues, and auctioned and resold over and over.

I don't know how much a SMG pump costs to replace but I wouldn't pay $14K for a ten-year old M5 with 114K miles on it that won't move.
$4k-$6k
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 03:55 PM
  #17293  
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The 6mt E60 M5 never looked so good

My previous co worker had a 6mt one.. but accordingly to him, it did not match the car... just didnt feel the 6mt was utilizing the engine's full potential.
Now i think 6mt ones are the ones to get.
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 04:35 PM
  #17294  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
The 6mt E60 M5 never looked so good

My previous co worker had a 6mt one.. but accordingly to him, it did not match the car... just didnt feel the 6mt was utilizing the engine's full potential.
Now i think 6mt ones are the ones to get.
Yes...as long as the VANOS pump on the S85 doesn't suddenly (and catastrophically) fail.
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 04:35 PM
  #17295  
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Originally Posted by Majofo
3k.. you must be sniffing glue.
You'd be lucky to find that exotic V10 used for 8k.
Who said I was talking about sourcing a V10 for $3k? That's probably the going rate for a non-bespoke junkyard motor out of a newer vehicle, with not too much mileage.

I was talking about in general
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 04:36 PM
  #17296  
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You can rebuild and put new, stronger, better parts.. but that'll be 3-4k alone labor not included.
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 04:37 PM
  #17297  
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Originally Posted by Costco


Who said I was talking about sourcing a V10 for $3k?

I was talking about in general
you huffing glu tho rite?
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 04:42 PM
  #17298  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
The 6mt E60 M5 never looked so good

My previous co worker had a 6mt one.. but accordingly to him, it did not match the car... just didnt feel the 6mt was utilizing the engine's full potential.
Now i think 6mt ones are the ones to get.
Didn't they just use the transmission from another BMW model without altering the gear ratios or anything like that?

That's probably why he felt it wasn't suited to the car.

I really do like the E60 M5 on paper, but reliability and pricey maintenance makes cars unattractive to me. If it has problems that I can't fix on my own (backyard mechanic-level) or at least affordably, I want none of it. Since you guys are using the high maintenance hot chick analogy, I'd only want to take her on a test drive or two, then I'm out!
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 04:45 PM
  #17299  
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Originally Posted by Majofo
you huffing glu tho rite?
I can source a lower mileage FA20 for about $3k. Not a great motor, admittedly. But it's pretty new and widely available.

For me that puts things into perspective. I mean, it's one thing if an engine needs replacement because of negligence or lack of maintenance, but if it's a design flaw...
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Old Nov 1, 2017 | 04:49 PM
  #17300  
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Originally Posted by Costco
Didn't they just use the transmission from another BMW model without altering the gear ratios or anything like that?

That's probably why he felt it wasn't suited to the car.

I really do like the E60 M5 on paper, but reliability and pricey maintenance makes cars unattractive to me. If it has problems that I can't fix on my own (backyard mechanic-level) or at least affordably, I want none of it. Since you guys are using the high maintenance hot chick analogy, I'd only want to take her on a test drive or two, then I'm out!
I remember reading something like that about the 6mt..
The only reason i love the E60 M5 is because of the exhaust sound. the high revving V10 + aftermarket exhaust = IMO it is probably the best sound from almost any car.
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Old Nov 2, 2017 | 12:56 AM
  #17301  
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Originally Posted by RPhilMan1
Does BMW still make the S85 engine?
No, it went out of production with the M5/M6 of the era in 2010. They built the S65 based on it, but it's out of production as well.
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Old Nov 2, 2017 | 10:00 AM
  #17302  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
I remember reading something like that about the 6mt..
The only reason i love the E60 M5 is because of the exhaust sound. the high revving V10 + aftermarket exhaust = IMO it is probably the best sound from almost any car.
This.

Pretty crazy how just an engine note can make you want to own it - IMO, I think that entire generation of 5 series looks hideous.
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Old Nov 2, 2017 | 11:49 AM
  #17303  
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Start saving your money to import a C7 RS6 Avant in 19 years.

But my god, this RS4 Avant ...


Sorry for the stupid ads.
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Old Nov 2, 2017 | 12:08 PM
  #17304  
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In 19 years I won’t need a wagon
only 2 seaters
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Old Nov 2, 2017 | 01:18 PM
  #17305  
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If I had the money, I'd get a RS4/RS6 Avant because I love wagons. Even if I just drove it by myself.
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Old Nov 2, 2017 | 04:43 PM
  #17306  
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Originally Posted by charliemike
If I had the money, I'd get a RS4/RS6 Avant because I love wagons. Even if I just drove it by myself.
This is the correct answer.
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Old Nov 3, 2017 | 11:46 AM
  #17307  
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https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big...essey-venom-f5

John Hennessey vs Wolfgang Dürheimer: TG chats to the 300mph masterminds
Hitting 300mph in a road car. What are the challenges? Is it even achievable? The current fastest speed in a road car is 270.49mph. It’s held by a Hennessey Venom GT, only 2.63mph above the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport, and achieved in only one direction. Clearly, at these speeds, adding another 1mph is difficult, so how likely is it that their next-generation cars – the Chiron and Hennessey’s F5 project – will be able to add another 30mph to that?
Words: Ollie Marriage

Indeed, is 300mph even on their radar, or is it a step too far? At 300mph (482.8kph) 100 metres would take 0.746secs. If it happened in a stadium, you could barely turn your head fast enough to keep up. Over to Wolfgang Dürheimer (outgoing Bugatti CEO) and John Hennessey (founder of Hennessey) to tell us more…

So, Wolfgang, what would you say are the main challenges of going very fast in road cars?
Well, when you are out to break new ground in an area where nobody was so far, you cannot 100 per cent predict the problems you will face. But it starts with the tyres, because at that speed you have a stress load on the tyres, especially on the surface, that is immense. Once again, we are working with Michelin – I think we are their most challenging tyre-development partner – but in the whole of Europe, we did not find a test bench to cope in terms of durability and high-speed capability.

We actually found a bench in the US that is used for aircraft tyres, and it’s been used to extremes to make sure the tyres are stable enough.

After tyres comes aerodynamics?
At high speeds, aerodynamics and power are very closely related. To go fast, you need the power of the engine to break the barrier and to compensate for the aero drag you build up – it’s like moving a bookshelf through the air. Aerodynamics on the Chiron took all the computational power we had in the Volkswagen Group, because when you approach 400kph, life, in driving dynamic terms, gets very demanding, and it takes a lot of effort to develop the aerodynamic balance so the car is predictable and safe in all circumstances.

Can you model everything on computers?
Not everything. When you are at these limits, pushing the boundaries, you don’t know what you might find, so it’s important not just to look at computers, but to drive and test the car. Let me give you one example. We were in South Africa to do high-speed tests with the car in its final design, and we realised when we went at very high speeds for a longer period of time the single-beam lightbar and carbon-fibre parts at the rear started melting due to the extraordinary exhaust heat – approximately 1,000 degrees Celcius when it comes out of the pipes.

So we had to develop an air duct on the outside of the exhaust that ejects the hot gas out about 80cm further behind the car, and then it was fine.

The pressure within the engine must be huge?
It was quite a challenge to add 50 per cent on top of the Veyron’s 1,000 horsepower from the same displacement. To go 400, don’t start below a thousand horsepower and to go, let’s say, 450, don’t start below 1,500bhp. You will not make it. There are thousands of pieces in this engine, and they all need to sustain the stress load – we have to bring one cubic metre of air per second through the combustion chamber and out again. But we knew we needed this power to approach the 450kph limit.

450kph is 280mph. Are you intending to go for a bigger speed than 261mph in the standard car?
While the car will remain limited at 420kph [261mph] for public roads, we will try to do another world speed record for street-legal cars most likely in 2018. This will happen under controlled conditions on our test track.

And 450 is an achievable target?
It could be possible, but we don’t know yet, we are still testing.

Are you looking beyond that as well? Or is that the line in the sand?
Nobody draws a line in the sand, I think the race goes on, and when someone crashes the 450 barrier, someone will try 451 a year later. But in this game, you cannot predict what is going to happen. You have to be careful, control the conditions, have the right air, wind, road conditions. But this is what we like to do, and it’s the big factor of differentiation in Bugatti, that we do this and tell our customers what the cars are capable of.

Top speed still sells, then?
Power, speed and lap times are what sells.

But the Chiron isn’t a lap-time car…
No, but the car has its own rules, and on a track like Le Mans where we have an ultra-long straight, this is the El Dorado for a Bugatti. Fast and long turns are our domain.

How much does being first matter? How important is it to have a rival?
Of course it’s good to have competition. To only beat yourself is not what we are looking for. But is it important for us to be number one? It’s ultimately important for us, because we are representing our customers, and our customers are number one wherever they show up. I always say if you come in second you are the first loser.

Will you do the high-speed runs at Ehra?
Ehra is a playground for us – it’s like heaven. We have the ultimate straight and predictable conditions – we know what the wind’s doing, and the track is right in front of our door.

Is 300mph a possibility for the Chiron?
No, I don’t think that’s a possibility for the Chiron in its existing shape and pattern.

But it must be a barrier some customers have mentioned to you?
Yes, but luckily we are living in a world of kilometres not miles, and today we are talking about reaching 450.

So no one’s talking 500, then?
Some customers asked me whether we are approaching it, but I have no answer for this at present…

And now, over to John Hennessey, creator of the 270mph Venom GT, and its replacement, the 1,600bhp Venom F5…
So, John, what would you say are the main challenges of going very fast in road cars?
First, there’s the consideration of tyres, but I’m not too worried about that because I’ve got a car that weighs less than 1,400kg, so I’m not working the tyres as hard. So, for me, aero is most significant. When we ran 270mph in the Venom GT, the drag factor was 0.44Cd – like a small pickup truck.

If we wanted to get the Venom to go 300mph with the drag it has, we’d have needed 2,500bhp. The goal for the new car was to go under 0.4, but it’s actually come out way better than that.

The smallest details make a huge difference on whether you’re going to be able to do 250mph or 270. On the Venom we played with many designs for the rear diffuser, and they had huge effects, changing the aero balance, putting too much heat in the tyres and so on.

Was that using computer simulations?
Yeah. The computers are pretty darn good. Nine years ago, when we first did Computational Fluid Dynamics on the Venom GT, they said that with 1,200bhp the car would go 272mph, and when we had to shut down at NASA at 270, the car was still accelerating, there were a few more mph in it – the drag and thrust would have equalised at about 273 to 275. Now they’re even more scarily accurate. But for every one thing we know, we’ve tried 10.

How about the engine for the new car?
It’s to be determined. It’ll be turbocharged – twin turbos are easy to do and package. My youngest son said why not put four turbos on it? Well, we can, but it’s a little more complicated, and I like simplicity.

How much power will it have?
The calculations say about 1,530–1,550bhp is needed to do 300mph. I’d like to cover that with a little extra. And with the [Koenigsegg] Regera and [Bugatti] Chiron both about 1,500bhp, I’d like to have a little more.

Sounds like you firmly believe 300mph is achievable?
I do. And I’m sure the Bugatti guys do too. They have a different set of challenges, but I think my car’s potentially capable of 500kph [311mph].

500kph? Really?
500 is an insane number, I’m only aiming for 300mph at the moment. I don’t know how much power we’d need, but say it’s 2,000bhp to go 500kph, well that’s sort of feasible.

Where can you go to do it?
Maybe we have to go to Bonneville, but that has its own set of challenges because you’re running on salt at 4,000ft of elevation, with weird weather, and you can spin the tyres at 200mph. The NASA runway is 3.2 miles and that’s just not long enough. When we ran 270, it took 2.4 miles of acceleration and 0.8 to brake. Closed roads are tricky because the smallest bumps at those speeds would potentially be catastrophic. There’s often a high crown, it’s narrow and there are critters – and a critter strike at high speed is bad news.

How important is it to you to have competition?
If we go out and do a run, that’s cool, but it’s not nearly as cool as when you’ve got the road runner and coyote together. Then we’re talking about the 300mph club, and that’s cool. It’ll be a fun next three to five years. I’ve heard Bugatti is going to go out and do a high-speed run in the Chiron next summer, which I’m assuming will beat our 270mph. After that we’re going to play our game and hopefully we can have some leapfrog along the way.

Do we intend to do 300mph next year? No. We’ll do it when we’re ready to do it, and if Bugatti gets there first, then congrats to them. It’s difficult to do. If they get to 300mph before us, we’ll end the game at 500kph.

Will that be the end, then?
Are you asking if there’ll ever be a 400mph club? No way. At least not for another quarter of a century. I was looking at the history of 200mph and you had the Porsche 959 and Ferrari F40 and then Ruf. Now everything is capable of 200mph. So 300mph is the Mount Everest.

I’m sure the Merc Project One will go 6:30 around the ’Ring and people will talk s**t about it, saying they did it with cheater tyres, but that’s why I like vmax – you can’t argue against a vmax run. It’s the absolute fastest, and I don’t like qualifiers: the fastest at such-and-such track, or the fastest- accelerating to such-and-such speed.

I don’t want to be the fastest at the Nürburgring; I just want to be the absolute fastest. That’s what matters to me and my clients. So there’s the Chiron and I expect McLaren’s BP23 will go fast too, but I don’t want to run with those guys, I want to crush them. To be the fastest, period.

And what of Koenigsegg? Top Gear asked company boss Christian von Koenigsegg for his take on the lure of 300mph…
Christian, when I drove the Regera last year, you said to me that 250mph is fast enough?
250mph is fast enough for most people. It’s how you arrive there, how quickly, how safely, the emotional value, that’s what matters. Having said that, the Agera RS, with the one-megawatt upgrade will reach 270mph or something like that.

Does that matter to your customers?
To some, yes. We’re not bothered, but the customers are and we’ll support them. We’re not chasing it – it becomes more irrelevant, because these are road cars, not dragsters.



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Old Nov 3, 2017 | 12:18 PM
  #17308  
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Talking about E60 M5s and transmissions, Gintani seems to be close on doing a successful DCT swap into one. Can't imagine the hours of coding and calibration that goes into tackling something of that magnitude.
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Old Nov 3, 2017 | 12:35 PM
  #17309  
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Originally Posted by nokiaman
Talking about E60 M5s and transmissions, Gintani seems to be close on doing a successful DCT swap into one. Can't imagine the hours of coding and calibration that goes into tackling something of that magnitude.
link?
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Old Nov 3, 2017 | 12:45 PM
  #17310  
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Originally Posted by 2012wagon
link?
View this post on Instagram
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Old Nov 3, 2017 | 04:06 PM
  #17311  
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with a proper DCT i would assume the E60 M5 will be significantly faster than with that slow ass SMG
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Old Nov 3, 2017 | 04:09 PM
  #17312  
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From: Waffles, BU
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Old Nov 3, 2017 | 04:10 PM
  #17313  
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Mark!

Any updates to the stable?
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Old Nov 7, 2017 | 12:39 PM
  #17314  
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...129/839337001/

GTR burned at the Dragon.
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Old Nov 7, 2017 | 01:03 PM
  #17315  
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Saw that on another forum.
Passengers were able to get out & get their things before the car burned.
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Old Nov 7, 2017 | 01:50 PM
  #17316  
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Pretty insane ...

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Old Nov 7, 2017 | 02:25 PM
  #17317  
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At 4:34 in this video, you can see the owner of the Agera. Ordered it something like almost 2 years ago.
He supposedly has 2 Regeras & a Valkyrie on order as well as an option of a Huayra.
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Old Nov 7, 2017 | 05:44 PM
  #17318  
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Very interesting. Between the CTR, TT RS, and Giulia Quadrifoglio R&T, the editors loved the CTR the most.

2018 Performance Car of The Year - 2018 McLaren 720S Named Road & Track's PCOTY
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Old Nov 7, 2017 | 05:47 PM
  #17319  
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The CTR was third, behind the second place ZL1 1LE and the winning 720S.
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Old Nov 8, 2017 | 07:07 AM
  #17320  
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Jesus a GT3 finished 5th in lap time. And it's crazy in that group an LC and Camaro finish 4th and 2nd. Back in the day for sure you'd peg them as bloated turds. Holy SHIT the 720S runs a 9.9 1/4 mile

Last edited by Doom878; Nov 8, 2017 at 07:12 AM.
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