Moog-Type-S

^^ dunno.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

I've been watching C-SPAN and other news.

Rhonda Smith's testimony was a pretty deep stab at Toyota and NHTSA. They are screwed.

Ray LaHood is quick to get on the soapbox and criticize Toyota, but he hasn't looked inside his own walls yet. He needs a reality check.

doopstr

I think this is the first hearing I've actually sat through.
It's pretty interesting. Like peeling an onion.

All of a sudden Toyota has a crack team of engineers working through the night to reproduce a fault that this guy found. Why did it take them 8 years to look at the ECU? Why not at least have a brake override in place?

Now it looks like there will be a recall to have the brake override firmware installed on all cars that can accept it.

VTEC Racer

Maybe because they don't have a fix yet for the ECU, if that is the issue. Don't forget that the stop-sale of 8 Toyota models earlier this month was mandatory by law, not a solely voluntary recall on Toyota's behalf. They can't have a recall without having a fix and continue to sell those same cars. This gas pedal might have just been the "quick fix" just to get cars selling again. Who knows, we'll see. So far it has been getting worse and worse. First people were saying it is not electronic and now we are reading more and more reports saying it is possibly electronic. And now we have a CRIMINAL investigation that is now open. Can't wait to see what's next.

fsttyms1

I never believed it was a mechanical issue, now its looking more and more that what i believed to be the issue is correct.

biker

I don't see how it could be anything but some combination of ECU and other electronics involved. Especially when the thing that really got this thing rolling was the tragedy in a Lexus qnd not the recalled Toyotas. Even if they fix the ECU for the thing that this guy in the video found that won't be the end of it. To really fix the problem they'll have to retrofit as many cars as possible with the brake override system.

About the only way this could get worse for Toyota is if someone dies in a car that has had all the current recalls applied - and that seems possible at this point.

Moog-Type-S

^^ The brake override is a joke IMHO. They need to resolve the acceleration issue.
What's the point of having a brake override when the car can accelerate at anytime without warning......who wants that?

The issue was/is supposed to be resolved by the pedal shim/friction fix.
If this is not the issue, and it does not solve the problem, then Toyota will have to do now a 3rd recall?!??!!?

1) floor mats
2) pedal replacement/shim/brake override
3) software update?

Moog-Type-S

http://www.leftlanenews.com/controve...tml#more-26476

Majofo

wow..

fsttyms1

Toyota should be hung out to dry

PortlandRL

Resale values are taking a pounding like Omaha beach before the ground assault. On my local Craigslist I found an '09 Camry LE with only 16,000 miles on it going for less than $15,000. Even models not affected by the recall are suffering. It's crazy.

biker

^ yeah, resale values will be in the toilet for a while, although there will be lots of bargain hunters out there.

VTEC Racer

Has anyone been watching the congressional hearings? I don't think it can get any worse... Apparently Toyota has black boxes in their cars that start recording data when an accident occurs. Simple solution to the unintended acceleration problem would be to read the black box and see what exactly was happening at the time of the accident, right? WRONG! Apparently, Toyota is claiming that the READERS for the black box are still in prototype stage and that there is only one in the entire United States. So according to Toyota, they have developed a technology, but have not developed the ability to utilize said technology. That would be like inventing a battery operated electronic device BEFORE batteries were even invented. To me it is utter BS and makes me VERY suspicious that Toyota is definitely hiding something.

BTW, for those who missed Jim Lentz at the hearing yesterday, he admitted that the recalls will "not totally" fix the problems with sudden acceleration.

Pretty confidence inspiring.

fsttyms1

Who are they trying to kid.

elessar

Toyota black boxes are Write-Only Memory. What next??

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

The FBI raided 3 suppliers of Toyota in Michigan.

Wealth of information, I know...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...NewsCollection

Majofo

Conan: In the Year 3000, scientist have developed a method to read Toyota's Write-Only Memory. Unfortunately the data was written in japengrish and was lost in translation.

doopstr

lol

PortlandRL

Fe Lastrella just began testifying as to what happened.

Heartwrenching.

Speed_Racer

I talked with her late last week and at that time wasn't sure what she was going to say at the hearing. She kept telling me she didn't want this to ever happen to anyone again. You can just see the burden she carries and the devastation the family has experienced. She's trying to be strong, but is a wreck inside. I'm always praying for her and their family for strength.

PortlandRL

If you talk to her...tell her I think she did wonderfully and that I send her my very best for the future. She and her family have my full support.

biker

I wonder if Vegas has a betting line on how much Toyota sales will drop this month?

Speed_Racer

Thanks. I'll pass that along. I'll see her tomorrow.

CocheseUGA

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_sto...41155&catid=40

Just happened. Woman stated she was standing on the brakes.

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/ques...en-330146.html

Older story.

phee

iTrader: (5)

i thought you were saying that it couldnt have been a software issue because if it was they would have changed it

phee

iTrader: (5)

insurance rates on toyotas will rise

biker

^ didn't even think of that but you're probably right - another knock against owning one.

Colin

Great article in Business Week

The Toyota Witch Hunt
Much of the testimony from Congress's Toyota hearings is riveting and emotional but can't be trusted, writes Ed Wallace ...

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...mpaign_id=yhoo

West6MT

Actually it is a pretty bad article. His explanation about the parking brake is laughable.

At highway speeds the parking brake wont be able to stop a car. It has much less force than hydraulic brakes, and acts on two, not four wheels. More than likely the cable would snap if you pressed on it hard in a situation like that.

I stopped reading after a while, because it was pretty clear this guy had a clear goal in mind with his article.

And no, I am not pulling shit outta my ass. I asked on of the many automotive engineers I know. He flat out laughed at this guys supposed scenario about how the wheels would lock and sand down the tires.

Colin

Huh? He did not write that the parking brake works on all four wheels. :

West6MT

My comment was a comparison comment. I didn't say he said it acted on 4 wheels.

Hydraulic brakes act on all four wheels (more powerful than parking brake) and have a hard time stopping a car at hwy speeds. How is a parking brake with less braking force that only acts on two wheels slow down the car. That scenario is ridiculous.

Colin

Certainly it will change the velocity of the car. Even if they don't bring it to a complete stop, at the very least, there will be some evidence that they were applied at high speed? Overheated shoes/drums, flat spotted tires, it might have even caused the car to spin had it actually locked (they are un-driven afterall and relatively unweighted). But after all that, the car shows no ill effects, operates normally. It is sold where it continues to work normally and nobody mentions that fact (till I read it here).

Earlier you said, "its clear this guy had a clear goal in mind with his article." Sorry, but the are people pushing an agenda in the media on both sides of the issue, each may have a valid case. I think that his only goal was to show how one sided the coverage is.

West6MT

Yes, the handbrake will change the way the car is reacting, but it doesnt mean it cant stop it from accelerating. It might slow the rate of acceleration, but it's all hearsay since there is no evidence. There is no dispute that if brakes applied by the hydraulic system to all four wheels cant stop the car, pulling the hand brake (or stepping on it) will not do the job. It cant even come close to the performance of conventional hydraulic brakes. Yes, it can slow the car down, but if it is already going at a high velocity, locking the rear wheels (if there was evidence of sanding) only provides a relatively low amount of friction (lower than the front tires that are not slipping). Static friction (tires not slipping) is ALWAYS greater than kinetic friction (tires locked), therefore, the front tires can still easily overpower whatever the rear wheels are doing (as long as the font tires are not slipping). Get into a car, pull the handbrake, even from a standstill, in a front wheel drive car you can accelerate away, dragging the real wheels depending on the car (if the cable is stretched or old, the wheels can still rotate). While moving at high speeds, the rear wheels being locked will have even less of an effect vs standstill. With the same road, the same tires, the conditions are comparable between the front and rear tires.

I've driven with the handbrake on before and didnt notice because I had a car full of girls. I thought the weight of 8 extra bodies (in university) was the cause of the sluggishness,...and my weak engine at the time. I didn't have any "sanding" because my wheels were rotating (may be a factor of an older car/stretched cable, or crappy pads). I am sure my drums were nice and shiny though.

Anyway, if there was no visible evidence of anything to do with the handbrake being engaged, the lady didn't put it on. I'll agree to that. But that doesn't excuse the unintended acceleration, nor does it mean it didnt happen. That might stand up if there were a few incidents like this, but not with all the deaths/reports/accidents. That entire part of the article was a big distraction that doesn't have any real bearing on whether the car was accelerating out of control. It might put the lady's story into question, but at this point I think we know there is a problem with unintended acceleration.

I didnt say other sources/ppl dont have an agenda, but this is pretty blatant IMO.

biker

Where's the agenda on the writer's part? He's just taking the other side of the story. I think most of his points are valid. And the fact that some folks testyfing have a financial interest in their version makes me suspect their story.

The parralels between this and the Audi fiasco are uncanny. The writer does acknowledge that although true in many cases, there's no way Toyota will call any of the incidents a driver error like Audi did.

West6MT

The tone of the article makes it sound like he's trivializing the problem. His ebrake scenario and comments about electrical ghosts etc dont really build up any credibility for his arguments/point of view. He more or less dismisses electrical/ecu problems which very well could be the cause. He's in opposition to what many experts believe to be the problem. It's an opinion article from someone that doesn't seem to understand cars/electronics well enough to really be commenting on the situation. His points gloss over the fact that a problem exists and there have been many deaths and accidents. The article does question some people's stories, but it's clear there is a problem, there's no doubt about that.

West6MT

To add

Yes, there are valid points about testimony etc, but I don't really think this guy's comments about mechanical/electrical/ecu related topics are very informed.

Anyway, I don't feel like talking about this anymore.

dallison

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

I like this article.

While I have no doubt that a problem may exist, I believe this whole situation is spiraling into the stratosphere fueld by media hype. There are also politics involved here, too.

Moog-Type-S

^^ It has now become a witch hunt....political grandstanding FTL.

How long is this going to go on and on and on for?

I guess Congress has nothing better to do....it's not like the economy is in a recession/depression, it's not like real unemployment numbers are pushing 20% in some states, it's not like we are continuing to fight a decade long war in Afghanistan.

CocheseUGA

I love when anyone tries to make this argument about pretty much anything.