Toyota: Recall News
07-13-2010, 04:44 PM
#641
The sizzle in the Steak
...but it's Toyota's fault...it's a conspiracy!!! It's a software problem!!!! Drive-by-wire is the Toyota devil!!!! 
07-13-2010, 06:39 PM
#642
Senior Moderator
I dont believe that for a second either.
07-14-2010, 01:11 AM
#645
Punk Rocker
The U.S. Department of Transportation has analyzed dozens of data recorders from Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration and found that at the time of the crashes, throttles were wide open and the brakes were not engaged, people familiar with the findings said.
The results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyota and Lexus vehicles surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes. But the findings don't exonerate Toyota from two known issues blamed for sudden acceleration in its vehicles: sticky accelerator pedals and floor mats that can trap accelerator pedals to the floor.
The findings by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration involve a sample of reports in which a driver of a Toyota vehicle said the brakes were depressed but failed to stop the car from accelerating and ultimately crashing.
The data recorders analyzed by NHTSA were selected by the agency, not Toyota, based on complaints the drivers had filed with the government.
The findings are consistent with a 1989 government-sponsored study that blamed similar driver mistakes for a rash of sudden-acceleration reports involving Audi 5000 sedans.
The Toyota findings, which haven't been released by NHTSA, support Toyota's position that sudden-acceleration reports involving its vehicles weren't caused by electronic glitches in computer-controlled throttle systems, as some safety advocates and plaintiffs' attorneys have alleged. More than 100 people have sued the auto maker claiming crashes were the result of faulty electronics.
NHTSA has received more than 3,000 complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyotas, including some dating to early last decade, according to a report the agency compiled in March. The incidents include 75 fatal crashes involving 93 deaths.
However, NHTSA has been able to verify only one of those fatal crashes was caused by a problem with the vehicle, according to information the agency provided to the National Academy of Sciences. That accident last Aug. 28, which killed a California highway patrolman and three passengers in a Lexus, was traced to a floor mat that trapped the gas pedal in the depressed position.
Toyota has recalled more than eight million cars globally to fix floor mats and sticky accelerators.
A NHTSA spokeswoman declined to confirm the results from the data recorders. She said the agency was continuing to investigate the Toyota accidents and wouldn't be prepared to comment fully on the probe until a broader study is completed in conjunction with NASA, which is expected to take months.
Transportation Department officials, however, have said publicly that they have yet to find any electronic problems in Toyota cars.
Daniel Smith, NHTSA's associate administrator for enforcement, told a panel of the National Academy of Sciences last month that the agency's sudden-acceleration probe had yet to find any car defects beyond those identified by the company: pedals entrapped by floor mats, and "sticky" accelerator pedals that are slow to return to idle.
"In spite of our investigations, we have not actually been able yet to find a defect" in electronic throttle-control systems, Mr. Smith told the scientific panel, which is looking into potential causes of sudden acceleration.
"We're bound and determined that if it exists we're going to find it," he added. "But as yet, we haven't found it."
Toyota officials haven't been briefed on NHTSA's findings, but they corroborate its own tests, said Mike Michels, the chief spokesman for Toyota Motor Sales. Toyota's downloads of event data recorders have found evidence of sticky pedals and pedal entrapment as well as driver error, which is characterized by no evidence of the brakes being depressed during an impact.
Some company officials say they are informally aware of the NHTSA results. But Toyota President Akio Toyoda has said the company won't blame customers for its problems as part of its public-relations response.
Toyota is still trying to repair damage to its reputation caused as much by disclosures that the company hid knowledge of safety problems with its vehicles as by the reports of sudden acceleration.
NHTSA levied a $16.4 million fine against Toyota earlier this year for failing to notify the agency in a timely manner about its sticky-accelerator issue. Toyota's handling of a rash of safety complaints involving high-profile models such as the hybrid Toyota Prius has prompted Congress to consider a far-reaching overhaul of U.S. auto-safety laws.
Last week, Toyota announced it had taken steps to improve its vehicle quality, including moving 1,000 engineers into a new group that will try to pin down problems. The Japanese auto maker also will extend development times by at least four weeks on new models to do more testing and will cut down on the use of contract engineers.Toyota showed reporters the inner workings of its labs, including how it has been testing its electronic throttle control module to find any malfunctions. The system is controlled by a main computer and has a second computer as a backup if the first fails. In either instance, failures should be noted in the car's main computer and result in engine power being cut.
The car maker also has tested its vehicles' responses to strong electromagnetic radiation, such as the waves generated by cellphones and radio towers, which some critics have said could be causing a malfunction. The only interference engineers have encountered after bombarding cars with electromagnetic waves is static on the car radio.
U.S. Reps. Bart Stupak (D., Mich.) and Henry Waxman (D., Calif.) have been critical of Toyota's efforts to track down alternative causes of unintended acceleration. They have said Toyota has been slow to react or evasive. Toyota has said it is doing everything in its power to respond to both Congress and customer complaints.
The results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyota and Lexus vehicles surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes. But the findings don't exonerate Toyota from two known issues blamed for sudden acceleration in its vehicles: sticky accelerator pedals and floor mats that can trap accelerator pedals to the floor.
The findings by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration involve a sample of reports in which a driver of a Toyota vehicle said the brakes were depressed but failed to stop the car from accelerating and ultimately crashing.
The data recorders analyzed by NHTSA were selected by the agency, not Toyota, based on complaints the drivers had filed with the government.
The findings are consistent with a 1989 government-sponsored study that blamed similar driver mistakes for a rash of sudden-acceleration reports involving Audi 5000 sedans.
The Toyota findings, which haven't been released by NHTSA, support Toyota's position that sudden-acceleration reports involving its vehicles weren't caused by electronic glitches in computer-controlled throttle systems, as some safety advocates and plaintiffs' attorneys have alleged. More than 100 people have sued the auto maker claiming crashes were the result of faulty electronics.
NHTSA has received more than 3,000 complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyotas, including some dating to early last decade, according to a report the agency compiled in March. The incidents include 75 fatal crashes involving 93 deaths.
However, NHTSA has been able to verify only one of those fatal crashes was caused by a problem with the vehicle, according to information the agency provided to the National Academy of Sciences. That accident last Aug. 28, which killed a California highway patrolman and three passengers in a Lexus, was traced to a floor mat that trapped the gas pedal in the depressed position.
Toyota has recalled more than eight million cars globally to fix floor mats and sticky accelerators.
A NHTSA spokeswoman declined to confirm the results from the data recorders. She said the agency was continuing to investigate the Toyota accidents and wouldn't be prepared to comment fully on the probe until a broader study is completed in conjunction with NASA, which is expected to take months.
Transportation Department officials, however, have said publicly that they have yet to find any electronic problems in Toyota cars.
Daniel Smith, NHTSA's associate administrator for enforcement, told a panel of the National Academy of Sciences last month that the agency's sudden-acceleration probe had yet to find any car defects beyond those identified by the company: pedals entrapped by floor mats, and "sticky" accelerator pedals that are slow to return to idle.
"In spite of our investigations, we have not actually been able yet to find a defect" in electronic throttle-control systems, Mr. Smith told the scientific panel, which is looking into potential causes of sudden acceleration.
"We're bound and determined that if it exists we're going to find it," he added. "But as yet, we haven't found it."
Toyota officials haven't been briefed on NHTSA's findings, but they corroborate its own tests, said Mike Michels, the chief spokesman for Toyota Motor Sales. Toyota's downloads of event data recorders have found evidence of sticky pedals and pedal entrapment as well as driver error, which is characterized by no evidence of the brakes being depressed during an impact.
Some company officials say they are informally aware of the NHTSA results. But Toyota President Akio Toyoda has said the company won't blame customers for its problems as part of its public-relations response.
Toyota is still trying to repair damage to its reputation caused as much by disclosures that the company hid knowledge of safety problems with its vehicles as by the reports of sudden acceleration.
NHTSA levied a $16.4 million fine against Toyota earlier this year for failing to notify the agency in a timely manner about its sticky-accelerator issue. Toyota's handling of a rash of safety complaints involving high-profile models such as the hybrid Toyota Prius has prompted Congress to consider a far-reaching overhaul of U.S. auto-safety laws.
Last week, Toyota announced it had taken steps to improve its vehicle quality, including moving 1,000 engineers into a new group that will try to pin down problems. The Japanese auto maker also will extend development times by at least four weeks on new models to do more testing and will cut down on the use of contract engineers.Toyota showed reporters the inner workings of its labs, including how it has been testing its electronic throttle control module to find any malfunctions. The system is controlled by a main computer and has a second computer as a backup if the first fails. In either instance, failures should be noted in the car's main computer and result in engine power being cut.
The car maker also has tested its vehicles' responses to strong electromagnetic radiation, such as the waves generated by cellphones and radio towers, which some critics have said could be causing a malfunction. The only interference engineers have encountered after bombarding cars with electromagnetic waves is static on the car radio.
U.S. Reps. Bart Stupak (D., Mich.) and Henry Waxman (D., Calif.) have been critical of Toyota's efforts to track down alternative causes of unintended acceleration. They have said Toyota has been slow to react or evasive. Toyota has said it is doing everything in its power to respond to both Congress and customer complaints.
07-14-2010, 01:38 AM
#646
Right.... so that CHP Officer, a veteran of the department for 19 years, who is trained to and probably knows how to drive better than most or all of us on this site in a stressful situation probably stepped on his accelerator instead of his brake and didn't know it. And the fire emitting from the brakes as seen by witnesses at the scene was just their imagination. Or what, he risked life (including his family's) and limb to potentially get in on this publicity stunt to possibly get some money out of it? 
What else? He didn't know to pry the pedal of from the floor, or he probably didn't try and put it in neutral? The only possibility is that he didn't know to hold the START button to kill the engine, but hell I didn't know either until it was publicized in numerous articles after a bunch of accidents happened post-recall.
I'm definitely not saying that there aren't people who are dumb enough to try and cash out from this.... but to have no doubt or suspicion that Toyota is at fault is
Note the article says SOME drivers, not all. Even then, how can they clear Toyota from this fiasco? They haven't found it.... yet.
What else? He didn't know to pry the pedal of from the floor, or he probably didn't try and put it in neutral? The only possibility is that he didn't know to hold the START button to kill the engine, but hell I didn't know either until it was publicized in numerous articles after a bunch of accidents happened post-recall.
I'm definitely not saying that there aren't people who are dumb enough to try and cash out from this.... but to have no doubt or suspicion that Toyota is at fault is
Note the article says SOME drivers, not all. Even then, how can they clear Toyota from this fiasco? They haven't found it.... yet.
07-14-2010, 09:35 AM
#648
Yeah this is about as big a crock of shit as Apple saying the iPhone 4 antenna design flaw is a software problem where it sometimes shows too many bars. So how come there are so many more incidences of it in Toyotas than in any other car?? Yes, people definitely started reporting more bogus problems once all the publicity hit. But why the publicity in the first place? There had to be some problem to begin with. Where there's smoke...
So how come there are so many more incidences of it in Toyotas than in any other car?? Yes, people definitely started reporting more bogus problems once all the publicity hit. But why the publicity in the first place? There had to be some problem to begin with. Where there's smoke...
07-14-2010, 10:57 AM
#649
Registered but harmless
Join Date: Aug 2005
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So how come there are so many more incidences of it in Toyotas than in any other car?? Yes, people definitely started reporting more bogus problems once all the publicity hit. But why the publicity in the first place? There had to be some problem to begin with. Where there's smoke...
I don't discount electronic throttle issues and suspect that there is an intermittent glitch which will affect a very small number of vehicles at some point in time, but the brake override of the throttle should correct that, too.
07-14-2010, 12:59 PM
#650
Senior Moderator
Right.... so that CHP Officer, a veteran of the department for 19 years, who is trained to and probably knows how to drive better than most or all of us on this site in a stressful situation probably stepped on his accelerator instead of his brake and didn't know it. And the fire emitting from the brakes as seen by witnesses at the scene was just their imagination. Or what, he risked life (including his family's) and limb to potentially get in on this publicity stunt to possibly get some money out of it?
What else? He didn't know to pry the pedal of from the floor, or he probably didn't try and put it in neutral? The only possibility is that he didn't know to hold the START button to kill the engine, but hell I didn't know either until it was publicized in numerous articles after a bunch of accidents happened post-recall.
I'm definitely not saying that there aren't people who are dumb enough to try and cash out from this.... but to have no doubt or suspicion that Toyota is at fault is Note the article says SOME drivers, not all. Even then, how can they clear Toyota from this fiasco? They haven't found it.... yet.
What else? He didn't know to pry the pedal of from the floor, or he probably didn't try and put it in neutral? The only possibility is that he didn't know to hold the START button to kill the engine, but hell I didn't know either until it was publicized in numerous articles after a bunch of accidents happened post-recall.
I'm definitely not saying that there aren't people who are dumb enough to try and cash out from this.... but to have no doubt or suspicion that Toyota is at fault is
Note the article says SOME drivers, not all. Even then, how can they clear Toyota from this fiasco? They haven't found it.... yet.
07-14-2010, 04:45 PM
#651
My only car is a Bus
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Because they sell so many cars. Same thing happened w/Audi in the 80s... user error. People had the same excuses then... never proved, Audi took a huge PR hit.
If you have hundreds of thousands of your product out there and we are talking about a microscopic percentage which "failed" even though they are all of the same design.
Bet Toyota wishes they spent the extra $15 per car to install a brake override switch.
If you have hundreds of thousands of your product out there and we are talking about a microscopic percentage which "failed" even though they are all of the same design.
Bet Toyota wishes they spent the extra $15 per car to install a brake override switch.
07-14-2010, 09:47 PM
#652
Punk Rocker
Right.... so that CHP Officer, a veteran of the department for 19 years, who is trained to and probably knows how to drive better than most or all of us on this site in a stressful situation probably stepped on his accelerator instead of his brake and didn't know it. And the fire emitting from the brakes as seen by witnesses at the scene was just their imagination. Or what, he risked life (including his family's) and limb to potentially get in on this publicity stunt to possibly get some money out of it?
What else? He didn't know to pry the pedal of from the floor, or he probably didn't try and put it in neutral? The only possibility is that he didn't know to hold the START button to kill the engine, but hell I didn't know either until it was publicized in numerous articles after a bunch of accidents happened post-recall.
I'm definitely not saying that there aren't people who are dumb enough to try and cash out from this.... but to have no doubt or suspicion that Toyota is at fault is Note the article says SOME drivers, not all. Even then, how can they clear Toyota from this fiasco? They haven't found it.... yet.
What else? He didn't know to pry the pedal of from the floor, or he probably didn't try and put it in neutral? The only possibility is that he didn't know to hold the START button to kill the engine, but hell I didn't know either until it was publicized in numerous articles after a bunch of accidents happened post-recall.
I'm definitely not saying that there aren't people who are dumb enough to try and cash out from this.... but to have no doubt or suspicion that Toyota is at fault is
Note the article says SOME drivers, not all. Even then, how can they clear Toyota from this fiasco? They haven't found it.... yet.
However, NHTSA has been able to verify only one of those fatal crashes was caused by a problem with the vehicle, according to information the agency provided to the National Academy of Sciences. That accident last Aug. 28, which killed a California highway patrolman and three passengers in a Lexus, was traced to a floor mat that trapped the gas pedal in the depressed position.
07-15-2010, 07:38 AM
#653
Race Director
07-15-2010, 07:53 AM
#654
Senior Moderator
So there is NO chance many of the others werent??
07-15-2010, 09:03 AM
#655
Punk Rocker
No, that was just one example. Im sure there are other horrified owners that were using the correct pedal to try to slow down. You honestly going to sit there and say that EVERY instance other than the 1 was driver error
So there is NO chance many of the others werent??
So there is NO chance many of the others werent??
07-15-2010, 09:26 AM
#656
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Where's the evidence Eric? All they found was a burned up Lexus.
07-15-2010, 02:00 PM
#659
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
07-15-2010, 02:24 PM
#660
The sizzle in the Steak
Funny how when the media circus left town, there are no more out of control Toyota's on the road......
07-15-2010, 02:25 PM
#661
Senior Moderator
Id say that designing a car where it can so easily be a problem is the manufacturers problem and not something a car owner should have to check constantly.
07-15-2010, 02:38 PM
#662
Senior Moderator
http://jalopnik.com/5588081/toyota-p...-story-so-what
Toyota Planted WSJ "Driver Error" Story. So What?
An unnamed spokesperson at NHTSA, the U.S. agency responsible for examining Toyota unintended acceleration problems, claims last week's Wall Street Journal story asserting "driver error" was the main cause, was planted by Toyota. It probably was. Good for them!
A Wall Street Journal article from this past week claimed that initial findings from the US Department of Transportation (DOT), of which the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is a part, stated that drivers have been to blame for the unintended acceleration by pressing the wrong pedals. Basically, the initial findings indicate what we've been saying all along — Toyota drivers are old and can't tell the difference between an accelerator and a brake.
However, NHTSA, the body responsible for examining the Toyota pedal problems in the US, has firmly rebutted claims the story came from the safety organization. An anonymous NHTSA spokeswoman even went so far as to claim "that story was planted by Toyota" to the publication just-auto. She went on,"Toyota is the source - yes we know that for definite. It is [the] Toyota PR machine. We knew they were going to put it out."
We received a somewhat similar response — along with a claim that there were still months left to go in the investigation — when we spoke with a NHTSA employee (who wished to remain nameless) earlier this afternoon.
Well, duh. Of course it was Toyota that leaked it — the story quotes a "person familiar with the findings" (i.e. not someone from NHTSA) and it squares perfectly with the desire on the automaker's part to get a message out that it was driver error in 99% of cases of Sudden Unintended Acceleration. But, that doesn't mean it's not totally accurate.
Sean Kane of Safety Research & Strategies, an automotive safety research group partially funded by trial attorneys, is screaming bloody murder, claiming the Toyota story "seems to be paying dividends — literally. The automaker's stock rose 1 percent on the news and reporters scrambled to repeat the Journal piece..." But, frankly, it should do that. Evidence came out to support a narrative that is positive for the automaker. Toyota may make beige, boring cars that have bitten them in the backside, it's not their fault for trying to get a message out that it's their old, confused customers who're at fault in 99% of the cases. Still, although the Wall Street Journal probably could have been a little bit less breathless in their coverage of what was likely a single-sourced story — I got to give them credit for pushing a story that totally follows the message we've had since our coverage began.
But the way I see it, the other two big players — NHTSA and Kane — have two diametrically opposite problems with the coverage. NHTSA's bitching about the process by which the Journal received the information. That sucks for them, but when the official report comes out in a few months, it too will get its time in the sun. The story's just too big for it not to.
Kane, on the other hand, is bitching because this story severely hurts the narrative he needs to push for his clients. That's just too bad because it's beginning to look like his narrative's as lost as Toyota's blue-haired drivers are when trying to find the brakes.
Photo Credit: Getty Images
Toyota Planted WSJ "Driver Error" Story. So What?
An unnamed spokesperson at NHTSA, the U.S. agency responsible for examining Toyota unintended acceleration problems, claims last week's Wall Street Journal story asserting "driver error" was the main cause, was planted by Toyota. It probably was. Good for them!
A Wall Street Journal article from this past week claimed that initial findings from the US Department of Transportation (DOT), of which the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is a part, stated that drivers have been to blame for the unintended acceleration by pressing the wrong pedals. Basically, the initial findings indicate what we've been saying all along — Toyota drivers are old and can't tell the difference between an accelerator and a brake.
However, NHTSA, the body responsible for examining the Toyota pedal problems in the US, has firmly rebutted claims the story came from the safety organization. An anonymous NHTSA spokeswoman even went so far as to claim "that story was planted by Toyota" to the publication just-auto. She went on,"Toyota is the source - yes we know that for definite. It is [the] Toyota PR machine. We knew they were going to put it out."
We received a somewhat similar response — along with a claim that there were still months left to go in the investigation — when we spoke with a NHTSA employee (who wished to remain nameless) earlier this afternoon.
Well, duh. Of course it was Toyota that leaked it — the story quotes a "person familiar with the findings" (i.e. not someone from NHTSA) and it squares perfectly with the desire on the automaker's part to get a message out that it was driver error in 99% of cases of Sudden Unintended Acceleration. But, that doesn't mean it's not totally accurate.
Sean Kane of Safety Research & Strategies, an automotive safety research group partially funded by trial attorneys, is screaming bloody murder, claiming the Toyota story "seems to be paying dividends — literally. The automaker's stock rose 1 percent on the news and reporters scrambled to repeat the Journal piece..." But, frankly, it should do that. Evidence came out to support a narrative that is positive for the automaker. Toyota may make beige, boring cars that have bitten them in the backside, it's not their fault for trying to get a message out that it's their old, confused customers who're at fault in 99% of the cases. Still, although the Wall Street Journal probably could have been a little bit less breathless in their coverage of what was likely a single-sourced story — I got to give them credit for pushing a story that totally follows the message we've had since our coverage began.
But the way I see it, the other two big players — NHTSA and Kane — have two diametrically opposite problems with the coverage. NHTSA's bitching about the process by which the Journal received the information. That sucks for them, but when the official report comes out in a few months, it too will get its time in the sun. The story's just too big for it not to.
Kane, on the other hand, is bitching because this story severely hurts the narrative he needs to push for his clients. That's just too bad because it's beginning to look like his narrative's as lost as Toyota's blue-haired drivers are when trying to find the brakes.
Photo Credit: Getty Images
07-15-2010, 02:49 PM
#663
The sizzle in the Steak
in the end whichever way it comes out, it's gonna end up being massive driver error on all fronts.
07-15-2010, 06:13 PM
#665
Senior Moderator
07-15-2010, 07:08 PM
#666
My only car is a Bus
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Must have been for suggesting a person should make sure the floormat isn't blocking something important like the brake pedal.
Hey, why take responsibility for something that should be common sense.
From 2007:
Hey, why take responsibility for something that should be common sense.
From 2007:
A portion of the TSB is posted below:NEVER install more than one floormat at a time in the driver's seating position... If applicable, any secondary set of floormats MUST be placed in the trunk with all the packaging material intact. DO NOT install the secondary mat on top of the primary floormat already in the driver's seating position.
Duh. Check yer floormats!Last edited by CL6; 07-15-2010 at 07:11 PM.
07-15-2010, 09:19 PM
#667
Senior Moderator
Must have been for suggesting a person should make sure the floormat isn't blocking something important like the brake pedal.
Hey, why take responsibility for something that should be common sense.
From 2007:
Hey, why take responsibility for something that should be common sense.
From 2007:
A portion of the TSB is posted below:NEVER install more than one floormat at a time in the driver's seating position... If applicable, any secondary set of floormats MUST be placed in the trunk with all the packaging material intact. DO NOT install the secondary mat on top of the primary floormat already in the driver's seating position.
Duh. Check yer floormats!
07-15-2010, 09:23 PM
#668
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
If he was even my half brother I'd
myself.But I'm more inclined to think he's related to Stoned.
Genius.. the Lexus was a loaner given to the family. How the fuck would they know details of some random TSB that's more than likely bullshit to begin with.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say you believe it's user error to hold the new iphone 4 in your hand to make a phone call.
07-15-2010, 09:50 PM
#669
Punk Rocker
Again, I just posted the story and the story said that the crash was caused by floormats as determinmed by the NHTSA. You can either believe the WSJ, NHTSA, etc who have actually been on the ground investigating the crashes or you can believe people blogging on car forums who have no inside information on the incidents or any crash-investigation training whatsoever....
07-15-2010, 10:06 PM
#670
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Again, I just posted the story and the story said that the crash was caused by floormats as determinmed by the NHTSA. You can either believe the WSJ, NHTSA, etc who have actually been on the ground investigating the crashes or you can believe people blogging on car forums who have no inside information on the incidents or any crash-investigation training whatsoever....
07-15-2010, 10:52 PM
#671
My only car is a Bus
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The crash report for the cop said there were rubber ASM in the car. This issue of rubber mat creepage was handled by Toyota in 2007:
And when I had my CL I had ASM in it and yes I would always check they weren't blocking anything.
It's called common sense but it's not very common and sometimes people die but that's on them.
And if I was driving a car with push button start I'd learn how to turn it off while driving. Otherwise it would be like buying a gun and not knowing how to shoot or reload it.
I feel sorry for the innocent people who die because of someone else's carelessness.
And as for the iPhone and your question... that doesn't kill people and Apple is working on a fix... much like Toyota's 2007 TSB.
The car, a loaner from Bob Baker Lexus El Cajon, was equipped with “all-weather” floor mats, designed for Lexus vehicles made between 2004 and 2009, he said. Hill would not further elaborate on the mats or how they were installed.
All-weather mats installed in 2007 and 2008 models of the Lexus ES 350 were recalled by manufacturer Toyota in November 2007 due to complaints that, if not properly installed, the mats could slide forward and trap the gas pedal.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...tal-car-crash/
When I rent a car yes, I always check it to make sure everything is safe. If you don't, you're an idiot.All-weather mats installed in 2007 and 2008 models of the Lexus ES 350 were recalled by manufacturer Toyota in November 2007 due to complaints that, if not properly installed, the mats could slide forward and trap the gas pedal.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...tal-car-crash/
And when I had my CL I had ASM in it and yes I would always check they weren't blocking anything.
It's called common sense but it's not very common and sometimes people die but that's on them.
And if I was driving a car with push button start I'd learn how to turn it off while driving. Otherwise it would be like buying a gun and not knowing how to shoot or reload it.
I feel sorry for the innocent people who die because of someone else's carelessness.
And as for the iPhone and your question... that doesn't kill people and Apple is working on a fix... much like Toyota's 2007 TSB.
And one should assume the factory mat shouldnt get in the way of the pedal, let alone jamming it. It shouldnt be the persons responsibility when they purchase a car to make sure that the factory mats arent in the way due to a design flaw. Do you check the floormats EVERY time you get in your CL before you drive off???
Last edited by CL6; 07-15-2010 at 10:56 PM.
I see a timeout coming. 
07-16-2010, 10:03 AM
#673
The sizzle in the Steak
Again, I just posted the story and the story said that the crash was caused by floormats as determinmed by the NHTSA. You can either believe the WSJ, NHTSA, etc who have actually been on the ground investigating the crashes or you can believe people blogging on car forums who have no inside information on the incidents or any crash-investigation training whatsoever....
07-16-2010, 04:04 PM
#674
I only believe what I can see with my own two eyes. And the only thing I see is a burned up Lexus. I'm certainly not going to believe that after hitting a car at 115+ mph, exploding and rolling half a dozen times that a floor mat would survive, less still be lodged against the accelerator pedal. I'm certainly not going to take the word of an agency with a history of protecting vehicle mfg's or the word of the WSJ with a history of biased political agendas and poor fact checking. I'm sure many cases are driver error, but to be dismissive and not grant a full independent investigation is beyond acceptable.
You either have to not read any of it, read a whole bunch of different ones, and make your own assumptions and opinions!
07-16-2010, 04:54 PM
#675
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It would be a mistake to think the "local" news isn't pushing an agenda, too.
I think bashing Toyota is the easiest thing to do however they employ a lot of Americans directly not to mention how much money they invest in this country. Toyota probably did cut some corners in its fast growth but the failure percentage is still microscopic when you look at how many millions of their products are out there being used by who knows-what-kind-of-people driving cars in who-knows-what kind of conditions.
When Audi took heat for their sudden acceleration in the 80s the Germans called Americans "stupid" and "lazy" and all of these other things. I'm sure the Japanese think the same thing. They might be right but they still need to understand our mentality that, right or wrong, the customer is always right and if you don't agree we will punish you in the press.
I think the failure of Toyota has been one of pride, not badly designed products.
I think bashing Toyota is the easiest thing to do however they employ a lot of Americans directly not to mention how much money they invest in this country. Toyota probably did cut some corners in its fast growth but the failure percentage is still microscopic when you look at how many millions of their products are out there being used by who knows-what-kind-of-people driving cars in who-knows-what kind of conditions.
When Audi took heat for their sudden acceleration in the 80s the Germans called Americans "stupid" and "lazy" and all of these other things. I'm sure the Japanese think the same thing. They might be right but they still need to understand our mentality that, right or wrong, the customer is always right and if you don't agree we will punish you in the press.
I think the failure of Toyota has been one of pride, not badly designed products.
You can add the NY Times and whole bunch of other papers, magazines etc to your list of biased political agendas and poor fact checking, not just the WSJ. Its really bad now a days because the media, both television and print, do us all a dis-service by promoting a one sided agenda depending on the high brass political leanings! I've topped reading paper's like that and stick to my local newspaper and television news to just get the information without all the political bull shit the rest of them do.
You either have to not read any of it, read a whole bunch of different ones, and make your own assumptions and opinions!
You either have to not read any of it, read a whole bunch of different ones, and make your own assumptions and opinions!
08-27-2010, 02:58 PM
#677
Honda Fanboy
Toyota recalls 1.13M Corollas and Matrix models
Toyota has announced a "Voluntary Safety Recall" on Certain Toyota Corolla and Corolla Matrix Models, CNNMoney.com has confirmed.
The company says the recall is to address some “Engine Control Modules (ECM) that may have been improperly manufactured.”
The voluntary recall is for the approximately 1.13 million 2005-2008 model Corolla and Corolla Matrix models sold in North America.
No other Toyota or Lexus vehicles are involved in this recall, the company says.
There are three unconfirmed accidents alleged to be related to this condition, one of which reported a minor injury, the company says in its press release.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/26...-for-corollas/
The company says the recall is to address some “Engine Control Modules (ECM) that may have been improperly manufactured.”
The voluntary recall is for the approximately 1.13 million 2005-2008 model Corolla and Corolla Matrix models sold in North America.
No other Toyota or Lexus vehicles are involved in this recall, the company says.
There are three unconfirmed accidents alleged to be related to this condition, one of which reported a minor injury, the company says in its press release.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/26...-for-corollas/
10-04-2010, 11:52 AM
#678
Race Director
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...tion-flaw.html
Oct. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp. said it hasn’t found any evidence its electronic throttle control caused unintended acceleration after engineers and technicians investigated more than 4,000 U.S. vehicles whose drivers made such complaints.
“Toyota has not found a single case in which electronics would lead to sudden unintended acceleration,” Steve St. Angelo, Toyota’s North American chief quality officer, said in a conference call today. Toyota has reviewed 4,200 individual acceleration-related complaints so far, he said.
The world’s largest automaker is working to improve its brand image and quality after global recalls of more than 8 million vehicles for defects linked to unintended acceleration. Some media reports and safety advocates have suggested Toyota’s electronic throttle-control system plays a role in sudden acceleration, an assertion Toyota denies.
Customer complaints of sudden-acceleration incidents have dropped 80 percent since April, Toyota said in a statement.
The Toyota City, Japan-based company said today that it’s added so-called brake-override control to 84 percent of Toyota, Lexus and Scion vehicles now on sale in the U.S. and will be the first manufacturer to offer the safety technology across its lineup. The software is intended to ensure that should the accelerator become stuck, it will be shut off when the brake pedal is pressed.
Oct. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp. said it hasn’t found any evidence its electronic throttle control caused unintended acceleration after engineers and technicians investigated more than 4,000 U.S. vehicles whose drivers made such complaints.
“Toyota has not found a single case in which electronics would lead to sudden unintended acceleration,” Steve St. Angelo, Toyota’s North American chief quality officer, said in a conference call today. Toyota has reviewed 4,200 individual acceleration-related complaints so far, he said.
The world’s largest automaker is working to improve its brand image and quality after global recalls of more than 8 million vehicles for defects linked to unintended acceleration. Some media reports and safety advocates have suggested Toyota’s electronic throttle-control system plays a role in sudden acceleration, an assertion Toyota denies.
Customer complaints of sudden-acceleration incidents have dropped 80 percent since April, Toyota said in a statement.
The Toyota City, Japan-based company said today that it’s added so-called brake-override control to 84 percent of Toyota, Lexus and Scion vehicles now on sale in the U.S. and will be the first manufacturer to offer the safety technology across its lineup. The software is intended to ensure that should the accelerator become stuck, it will be shut off when the brake pedal is pressed.
10-21-2010, 08:14 AM
#679
Safety Car
Another 1.5 Mil
TOKYO (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp. will repair about 1.53 million Avalons and other vehicles globally for problems with the brake master cylinder seal and fuel pump wiring, with most of those to be recalled in the United States and Japan.
The announcement comes less than 2 months after a recall of 1.3 million Corolla and Matrix cars in the United States and Canada carrying defective engine control modules that could cause the vehicles to stall.
Including the latest action, Toyota has called back more than 14 million vehicles in the past year, mostly for unintended acceleration, denting its reputation for quality and attracting intense scrutiny from U.S. safety regulators.
The world's largest automaker said in a filing with Japan's transport ministry today that about 600,000 vehicles spanning 11 models including the high-end Crown sedan and Lexus IS and GS models were subject to the recalls, either for the faulty cylinder seal, the fuel pump wiring or both.
Toyota's U.S. sales unit said separately it would recall 740,000 Avalon, Highlander, Lexus GS300, IS250 7 IS350 cars to replace a brake master cylinder seal because there was a possibility that some brake fluid could leak from the cylinder, causing the brake warning lamp to light up.
Toyota will decide whether to file an official recall in other markets in line with safety regulations in each market, Tokyo-based spokesman Paul Nolasco said. The cars subject to the repairs are sold worldwide, including in Europe, China, South America, Africa and Oceania.
No accidents were reported from the 2 defects, Nolasco said. He said Toyota does not disclose estimates for recall costs, and had no comment on whether the repairs would have any impact on its earnings.