Toyota: Recall News
11-02-2009, 07:35 PM
#42
Safety Car
Update
Between the tragedy of a California Highway Patrol officer and his family losing their lives in a borrowed dealership Lexus ES 350 and the farcical zip tie solution issued shortly thereafter, the Toyota/Lexus floor mat recall is a unique event in recent automotive safety history. Except it's not unique--it's happened before, in 2007--and now Toyota says it's not even its fault.
An announcement by Toyota today that it has begun mailing letters to owners of the affected Lexus and Toyota vehicles reveals that after National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) testing, the company has confirmed that there is no defect in the mats or the vehicles, provided the right mat is properly installed.
The problem, then, lies with installation and mat selection. The dealer loaner car that was driven to a fiery end in Southern California earlier this year was just such a case: the wrong mat was installed improperly.
So the fix? To install the proper floor mats and do it properly. The letter mailed today explains that the notice is of a future voluntary safety recall campaign which will see the mats replaced with the right model and installed according to procedure for no charge. Owners had previously been warned to pull driver's side floor mats from affected vehicles and not replace them with any other mats.
Affected models include:
2007 2010 Camry
2005 2010 Avalon
2004 2009 Prius
2005 2010 Tacoma
2007 2010 Tundra
2007 2010 ES350
2006 2010 IS250 and IS350
If you own one of these models, look for the letter in your mailbox over the next couple of days. 2005 2010 Avalon
2004 2009 Prius
2005 2010 Tacoma
2007 2010 Tundra
2007 2010 ES350
2006 2010 IS250 and IS350
11-03-2009, 11:49 AM
#43
I'm the Firestarter
So they sold millions of people "the wrong mats"? 
11-03-2009, 01:42 PM
#44
Senior Moderator
I cant believe Toyota on this matter.
11-05-2009, 12:27 PM
#45
Safety Car
More Drama
This past Monday Toyota released a statement denying any finding of fault on Toyota's part or any defect in its cars in relation to the deadly floor mat safety advisory issued in late September. Today, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is saying that Toyota's information is "inaccurate and misleading" and that there is in fact a defect in the 3.8 million cars affected.
The Toyota statement included reference to a letter being sent out to customers which Toyota stated, "confirms that no defect exists in vehicles in which the drivers floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured."
The NHTSA minces no words in contradicting Toyota's claims, calling the removal of the offending floor mats an interim measure only, and saying that "This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design." That leaves no doubt that the NHTSA considers the design of the vehicles and the accelerator pedal both to be defective in this regard.
Between the tragedy of a California Highway Patrol officer and his family losing their lives in a borrowed dealership Lexus ES 350 and the farcical zip tie solution issued shortly thereafter, the Toyota/Lexus floor mat recall is quickly becoming one of the most unique events in recent automotive safety history.
The problem, according to Toyota, lies with installation and mat selection. The dealer loaner car that was driven to a fiery end in Southern California earlier this year was just such a case, says the company: the wrong mat was installed improperly.
So the fix? To install the proper floor mats and do it properly. The letter mailed earlier this week explains that the notice is of a future voluntary safety recall campaign which will see the mats replaced with the right model and installed according to procedure for no charge. Owners had previously been warned to pull driver's side floor mats from affected vehicles and not replace them with any other mats.
Affected models include:
2007 2010 Camry
2005 2010 Avalon
2004 2009 Prius
2005 2010 Tacoma
2007 2010 Tundra
2007 2010 ES350
2006 2010 IS250 and IS350
11-05-2009, 01:17 PM
#46
The sizzle in the Steak
"This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design."
So ummmm ok....ditch your mats...isn't that what has been said all along? If you have no mat, there is nothing to cause "entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats".
11-05-2009, 01:26 PM
#47
Senior Moderator
Our local news said they didnt believe that it was mat related and many other sources were looking into this as well. I dont believe it either. Floor mats dont do this. They have a larger issue at hand and i hope it comes out.
11-05-2009, 01:51 PM
#49
The sizzle in the Steak
Why would they do this?
11-05-2009, 02:15 PM
#50
Safety Car
Lil More Info
By Ken Bensinger and Ralph Vartabedian
November 5, 2009
Federal safety regulators have sharply rebuked Toyota Motor Corp. for issuing "inaccurate and misleading" statements asserting that no defect exists in the 3.8 million vehicles it recalled after a Lexus sedan accelerated out of control in San Diego County, killing four people.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration issued a statement Wednesday that the recalled Toyota and Lexus vehicles do have an "underlying defect" that involves the design of the accelerator pedal and the driver's foot well.
Toyota officials have said they believe the Aug. 28 accident, and other uncontrolled-acceleration incidents across the country, occurred after the gas pedal became entrapped in an improperly installed floor mat.
In formal recall notices being mailed out this week, Toyota asks customers to remove the driver's-side mats. Separately, the company issued a statement Monday saying its recall letter "confirms that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured."
Toyota also posted a video statement disputing news reports that unintended acceleration may be related to other factors, such as electronic throttle control systems.
That prompted the NHTSA to issue a clarification.
"Safety is the No. 1 priority for NHTSA and this is why officials are working with Toyota to find the right way to fix this very dangerous problem," the statement said. "This matter is not closed until Toyota has effectively addressed the defect by providing a suitable vehicle-based solution."
The statement is an unusual public upbraiding of an automaker by the regulatory agency, according to auto safety experts, and threatens to dent Toyota's credibility just as it seeks to assure customers that its vehicles are safe.
"This is particularly public at a particularly difficult time for Toyota," said Sean Kane, chief of Safety Research & Strategies, a Rehoboth, Mass., consulting firm. "Toyota was trying to say it has a clean bill of health from NHTSA, when it does not."
In response to the NHTSA statement, Toyota said it was "never our intention to mislead or provide inaccurate information." The statement added that it was still developing "vehicle-based" remedies to prevent unintended acceleration events, in which motorists say their vehicles suddenly speed out of control.
Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons suggested last month that these remedies might include changes in the placement of the pedals, or a change to the engine control software in the vehicles' onboard computers. On Wednesday, however, Lyons declined to comment on any specific fixes.
Toyota announced the voluntary recall Sept. 29, one month after a 2009 Lexus ES 350 sped out of control on a suburban San Diego highway, killing California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, his wife, Cleofe Lastrella, their daughter Mahala and Chris Lastrella, Cleofe's brother.
The incident drew widespread public attention because the final moments were captured as Chris Lastrella made a frantic 911 call describing Saylor's futile efforts to stop the car, which crashed through an embankment and burned. The accident and recall prompted Toyota President Akio Toyoda to publicly express remorse.
The recall affects the 2007-2010 model year Toyota Camry, the 2004-2009 Toyota Prius, the 2005-2010 Toyota Avalon, the 2005-2010 Tacoma, the 2007-2010 Toyota Tundra, the 2007-2010 Lexus ES 350 and the 2006-2010 Lexus IS 250 and IS 350.
The NHTSA has investigated allegations of unwanted acceleration in Toyota vehicles eight times since 2003. Two probes, involving carpet panels in 2004 Toyota Sienna minivans, and floor mats in 2007 Lexus ES350 and 2007 Toyota Camry sedans, led to small recalls.
The six other investigations were closed by the agency with no finding of a defect. In those investigations, however, the NHTSA did find that the Toyota braking system could lose most of its power and effectiveness when the throttle is fully opened and that other aspects of vehicle design, including using push-button ignitions, could add risk in sudden-acceleration events.
In the suburban San Diego case, the NHTSA found that the floor mat in the sedan -- a loaner car from an El Cajon dealer -- was an all-weather mat intended for use in a Lexus sport utility vehicle. It also found that the design of the Lexus accelerator pedal may have enhanced the risk of its being obstructed by a floor mat.
Toyota has continued to focus on the floor mats alone.
On Monday in a video statement posted online, Toyota Senior Vice President Bob Daly addressed recent suggestions "that there may be other causes of unintended acceleration," including problems with engine control systems, brake systems or electromagnetic interference.
"There is no evidence to support those theories," Daly said. "The question of unintended acceleration involving Toyota and Lexus vehicles has been repeatedly and thoroughly investigated by NHTSA, without any finding of defect other than the risk from an unsecured or incompatible driver's floor mat."
The response from federal regulators came as no surprise to Joan Claybrook, an auto safety activist who formerly headed the NHTSA.
"The agency never says there is no defect. . . . New information can come to light that there is a defect," Claybrook said.
ken.bensinger@latimes.com
ralph.vartabedian@
latimes.com
ralph.vartabedian@
latimes.com
11-05-2009, 02:33 PM
#51
The sizzle in the Steak
NHTSA Press Release
NHTSA 110409
Wednesday, November 04, 2009 Karen Aldana
Telephone: (202) 366-9550
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued a statement today correcting inaccurate and misleading information put out by Toyota concerning a safety recall involving 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles:
A press release put out by Toyota earlier this week about their recall of 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles inaccurately stated NHTSA had reached a conclusion "that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured." NHTSA has told Toyota and consumers that removing the recalled floor mats is the most immediate way to address the safety risk and avoid the possibility of the accelerator becoming stuck. But it is simply an interim measure. This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design. Safety is the number one priority for NHTSA and this is why officials are working with Toyota to find the right way to fix this very dangerous problem. This matter is not closed until Toyota has effectively addressed the defect by providing a suitable vehicle based solution.
NHTSA constantly monitors consumer complaints and other data. This comprehensive recall focuses on pedal entrapment by floor mats, but NHTSA will fully investigate any possible defect trends in these vehicles.
TIMELINE OF EVENTS
On September 29, 2009, NHTSA issued a Consumer Alert warning owners of Toyota and Lexus vehicles about "conditions that could cause the accelerator to get stuck open." As an interim measure, NHTSA "strongly encouraged" owners of specific models to take out the removable driver's side floor mats and not to replace them any other type of mat. NHTSA warned consumers "a stuck accelerator may result in very high vehicle speeds and a crash, which could cause serious injury or death."
On the same day, Toyota issued a voluntary recall of 3.8 million vehicles to address problems caused when removable floor mats push the accelerator pedal to the floor.
NHTSA officials are meeting with Toyota to hear their action plan for redesigning the vehicles and correcting this very serious defect.
Wednesday, November 04, 2009 Karen Aldana
Telephone: (202) 366-9550
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued a statement today correcting inaccurate and misleading information put out by Toyota concerning a safety recall involving 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles:
A press release put out by Toyota earlier this week about their recall of 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles inaccurately stated NHTSA had reached a conclusion "that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured." NHTSA has told Toyota and consumers that removing the recalled floor mats is the most immediate way to address the safety risk and avoid the possibility of the accelerator becoming stuck. But it is simply an interim measure. This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design. Safety is the number one priority for NHTSA and this is why officials are working with Toyota to find the right way to fix this very dangerous problem. This matter is not closed until Toyota has effectively addressed the defect by providing a suitable vehicle based solution.
NHTSA constantly monitors consumer complaints and other data. This comprehensive recall focuses on pedal entrapment by floor mats, but NHTSA will fully investigate any possible defect trends in these vehicles.
TIMELINE OF EVENTS
On September 29, 2009, NHTSA issued a Consumer Alert warning owners of Toyota and Lexus vehicles about "conditions that could cause the accelerator to get stuck open." As an interim measure, NHTSA "strongly encouraged" owners of specific models to take out the removable driver's side floor mats and not to replace them any other type of mat. NHTSA warned consumers "a stuck accelerator may result in very high vehicle speeds and a crash, which could cause serious injury or death."
On the same day, Toyota issued a voluntary recall of 3.8 million vehicles to address problems caused when removable floor mats push the accelerator pedal to the floor.
NHTSA officials are meeting with Toyota to hear their action plan for redesigning the vehicles and correcting this very serious defect.
Toyota says: "that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured."
NHTSA says: "NHTSA has told Toyota and consumers that removing the recalled floor mats is the most immediate way to address the safety risk and avoid the possibility of the accelerator becoming stuck. But it is simply an interim measure. This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design."
Cliffs: Listen to the NHTSA...get your drivers side mats out of your Toyota/Lexus.
11-05-2009, 04:00 PM
#52
Senior Moderator
^ id just get rid of the car, its a larger safety issue
11-06-2009, 11:04 PM
#53
Punk Rocker
^^^I'm supremely unconcerned about this whole "chicken-little" affair and have absolutely no intention of getting rid of my Lexus or its floor mats. This is just another over-hyped conspiracy theory devoid of any merit. The CHP car had the wrong floor mats and that caused a terrible tragedy. My car has proper mats that are properly installed using the hooks provided. I have no concerns at all about driving my Toyota product....
11-09-2009, 12:17 PM
#54
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ but it's a grand conspiracy 
Look! the NHTSA says that...ummmm....they say.....ummm it's a mat issue....nevermind....no conspiracy here.
Look! the NHTSA says that...ummmm....they say.....ummm it's a mat issue....nevermind....no conspiracy here.
11-09-2009, 12:25 PM
#55
Safety Car
Inevitable Lawsuit
Two Los Angeles County residents have sued Toyota Motor Corp., alleging that the majority of Toyota and Lexus vehicles made since 2001 contain defective components that can cause unintended acceleration.
The lawsuit, filed Thursday in Riverside County Superior Court, is the latest in a growing string of suits against the automaker over concerns of runaway acceleration.
The plaintiffs, Seong Bae Choi and Chris Chan Park, seek statewide and national class-action status, arguing that "hundreds of thousands" of individuals could be affected by sudden acceleration caused by defective electronic throttle systems.
"There is a problem here, obviously," said David Wright, the Redlands-based attorney for the plaintiffs. "We're asking Toyota to get it taken care of now."
Toyota spokesman John Hanson declined to comment on the suit, saying it was company policy not to comment on litigation.
The automaker is recalling 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles following an August crash of a Lexus sedan that accelerated out of control outside of San Diego. An off-duty California Highway Patrolman and three members of his family were killed.
The Japanese automaker has said that it believes improperly installed floor mats caused that accident and others like it by entrapping the accelerator pedal. It has asked drivers to remove their driver-side floor mats until a fix can be determined.
Toyota has repeatedly denied the possibility that any other systems could cause such a problem and reiterated that position in a blog item posted on its website Friday.
Nonetheless, the accident and subsequent recall have drawn national attention and, this week, prompted federal highway safety regulators to issue a statement indicating that the seven recalled Toyota models do indeed have an "underlying defect."
At least five other lawsuits filed against Toyota in the last few years have alleged a defect causing unintended acceleration. One, involving a runaway 2007 Toyota Camry that crashed and killed a man near San Jose, was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.
The latest suit alleges that the two men experienced repeated incidents of unintended acceleration in their vehicles, a 2008 Toyota FJ Cruiser and a 2004 Toyota Camry. No allegations of crashes or injury were made. Neither vehicle is included in the current recall.
According to Wright, their lawyer, Toyota began installing fully electronic throttle systems in its cars in 2001. He said the vast majority of its vehicles use them today. He said that a software fix that automatically puts the engine into idle while braking could potentially resolve the issue.
Some automakers, such as BMW, use the software safety feature.
Wright said that the class-action status, if approved, would exclude cases in which individuals were injured or killed by alleged unintended acceleration because those cases are typically handled on an individual basis.
Last week, Toyota began sending recall letters to owners of 2007 to 2010 Camrys, 2004 to 2009 Priuses, 2005 to 2010 Avalons, 2005 to 2010 Tacomas, 2007 to 2010 Tundras, 2007 to 2010 Lexus ES 350s, and 2006 to 2010 Lexus IS 250s and IS 350s.
11-09-2009, 12:31 PM
#56
The sizzle in the Steak
The latest suit alleges that the two men experienced repeated incidents of unintended acceleration in their vehicles, a 2008 Toyota FJ Cruiser and a 2004 Toyota Camry. No allegations of crashes or injury were made. Neither vehicle is included in the current recall.
11-09-2009, 08:17 PM
#57
Punk Rocker
Hey I get it! If I own a Toyota and rear end somebody all I have to do is run around and claim that my crazy car just took off on its own. "Wasn't my fault officer!!"
I wonder what percentage of these "victims" were involved in at-fault accidents???
I wonder what percentage of these "victims" were involved in at-fault accidents???
11-10-2009, 08:45 AM
#58
Safety Car
Article
By Ralph Vartabedian and Ken Bensinger
November 8, 2009
More than 1,000 Toyota and Lexus owners have reported since 2001 that their vehicles suddenly accelerated on their own, in many cases slamming into trees, parked cars and brick walls, among other obstacles, a Times review of federal records has found.
The crashes resulted in at least 19 deaths and scores of injuries over the last decade, records show. Federal regulators say that is far more than any other automaker has experienced.
Owner complaints helped trigger at least eight investigations into sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the last seven years. Toyota Motor Corp. recalled fewer than 85,000 vehicles in response to two of those probes, and the federal agency closed six other cases without finding a defect.
But those investigations systematically excluded or dismissed the majority of complaints by owners that their Toyota and Lexus vehicles had suddenly accelerated, which sharply narrowed the scope of the probes, the Times investigation revealed.
Federal officials eliminated broad categories of sudden-acceleration complaints, including cases in which drivers said they were unable to stop runaway cars using their brakes; incidents of unintended acceleration lasting more than a few seconds; and reports in which owners did not identify the possible causes of the problem.
NHTSA officials used the exclusions as part of their rationale to close at least five of the investigations without finding any defect, because -- with fewer incidents to consider -- the agency concluded there were not enough reported problems to warrant further inquiry. In a 2003 Lexus probe, for example, the agency threw out all but one of 37 customer complaints cited in a defect petition. It then halted further investigation, saying it "found no data indicating the existence of a defect trend."
Meanwhile, fatal crashes involving Toyota vehicles continued to mount.
In a written statement, the NHTSA said its records show that a total of 15 people died in crashes related to possible sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles from the 2002 model year and newer, compared with 11 such deaths in vehicles made by all other automakers.
The Times located federal and other records of 19 fatalities involving Toyota and Lexus vehicles from the same model years in which sudden or unintended acceleration may have been a factor, as well as more than 1,000 reports by owners that their vehicles had suddenly accelerated. Independent safety expert Sean Kane, president of Safety Research and Strategies, said he has identified nearly 2,000 sudden-acceleration cases for Toyota vehicles built since 2001.
Other experts say the numbers may be far higher, pointing to a 2007 NHTSA survey of 600 Lexus owners that found 10% complained they had experienced sudden acceleration.
Most sudden accelerations did not result in a crash, but there were notable exceptions. Bulent Ezal, a retired engineer, plunged 70 feet off a Pismo Beach cliff into the Pacific Ocean surf. He was hospitalized with minor injuries, but his wife of 46 years was killed.
"By the time they pulled me out, the tide was about to cover the car," Ezal said.
He said his 2005 Camry had suddenly accelerated in a parking lot.
In its research, The Times examined thousands of federal defect investigation records, complaints filed with NHTSA by Toyota and Lexus owners, lawsuits against the company, and reports by independent safety experts and local police agencies.
Toyota has been under a spotlight since Aug. 28, when off-duty California Highway Patrolman Mark Saylor and three members of his family died in a Lexus ES 350 that accelerated to more than 100 mph and crashed in San Diego County.
Toyota has blamed the Saylor crash on an incorrectly installed floor mat that jammed the accelerator pedal. The company announced a recall of 3.8 million vehicles in September and is designing a fix aimed at preventing sudden acceleration caused by floor mats.
The recall affects the following Toyota models: the 2007-2010 Camry, the 2004-2009 Prius, the 2005-2010 Avalon, the 2005-2010 Tacoma and the 2007-2010 Tundra, as well as the 2007-2010 Lexus ES 350 and the 2006-2010 Lexus IS 250 and IS 350.
Last week, the NHTSA called the issue a "very dangerous problem" and said the remedy remains to be determined.
The agency declined a request for interviews, but issued a statement defending its past actions, saying its officials have continuously monitored Toyota vehicles for potential defects and that many of the reports of sudden acceleration involved only momentary surges of engine power that did not result in any loss of vehicle control.
"NHTSA takes every allegation of safety problems seriously and that is why we read every consumer complaint within one business day of its receipt," the agency said. "In the case of complaints about sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles NHTSA moved very quickly to respond to them."
Toyota Motor Corp. defended its Toyota and Lexus vehicles and the validity of prior investigations.
"Over the past six years, NHTSA has undertaken several exhaustive reviews of allegations of unintended acceleration on Toyota and Lexus vehicles. In each case, the agency closed the investigation without finding any electronic engine control system malfunction to be the cause of unintended acceleration," the company said in a statement.
Whatever the cause, Toyota and Lexus owners have grappled with the dangerous consequences.
* Jean Bookout awoke in an Oklahoma hospital a month after a crash in her 2005 Camry.
She said the car sped out of control on a freeway, then smashed into an embankment after she swerved it onto an exit ramp, leaving behind long skid marks from attempts to stop the vehicle with her brakes and emergency brake.
Bookout sustained permanent memory loss, and her best friend died.
"I did everything I could to stop the car," she said Tuesday.
* Nancy Bernstein, a vice president for a Long Beach community garden and former science teacher, said she was taken on an 8-mile high-speed ride by her 2007 Prius while she was following her husband in a group bicycle tour in Wisconsin. She said her Prius accelerated from 45 mph to 75 mph on a winding, two-lane highway crowded with 100 cyclists.
"I was sure I was going to kill someone on a bicycle or myself," she recalled. "I stood on the brakes with both feet. All of a sudden, I see fire. I thought, sure, my brakes are on fire. I thought about maybe trying to sideswipe a tree to slow down."
Eventually she was able to stop at the bottom of a hill, using her brakes and emergency brake. A local resident rushed out with a fire extinguisher.
* Dr. David. W. Smith, an emergency room physician from San Dimas, has yet to receive a satisfactory answer from Toyota about his Lexus GS 300. Smith said he was driving with his cruise control in Central California on Highway 99 last year, not touching the accelerator, when suddenly the vehicle accelerated to 100 mph.
The brakes did not release the cruise control or slow down the vehicle, Smith recalled. Finally, he shifted into neutral and shut off the engine. "I am sure it is the cruise control," he said. "I haven't used it since."
In reviewing consumer complaints during its investigations, the NHTSA relied on established "positions" that defined how the agency viewed the causes of sudden acceleration. Cases in which consumers alleged that the brakes did not stop a car were discarded, for example, because the agency's official position was that a braking system would always overcome an engine and stop a car. The decision was laid out in a March 2004 memorandum.
When asked to submit its own complaint data to the NHTSA, Toyota eliminated reports claiming that sudden acceleration occurred for "a long duration," or more than a few seconds. Elsewhere, the company said a fail-safe in its throttle system makes such an event impossible.
NHTSA officials acknowledged in a statement that the exclusions were made, but defended the practice.
"While some vehicles may be excluded from the scope of an investigation into a specific defect allegation, all are continuously reviewed, along with other relevant information, in order to identify other emerging issues of concern," the statement said.
A reduced pool of reports created the appearance that the problem was much smaller than the total number of complaints suggested, making a broader vehicle recall seem less necessary, critics say.
"NHTSA has ways of pigeonholing reports, categorizing them as brake failure rather than sudden acceleration," said attorney Edgar Heiskell of Charleston, W.Va., who is suing Toyota over a fatal crash in Flint, Mich. "By excluding these braking and long-duration events, they have taken 80% of the cases off the table."
In 2004, the NHTSA began a probe into a defect petition filed by Carol J. Mathews, a registered nurse who was then director of health services for the Montgomery County, Md., school system. Matthews reported that she had her foot on the brake of her 2002 Lexus ES when it took off and hit a tree.
In its subsequent investigation, the NHTSA and Toyota both winnowed down other reports of sudden acceleration involving 2002 and 2003 Lexus ES and Camry models.
When the agency asked Toyota to disgorge all of the reports it knew about, the company eliminated an unknown number in five broad categories, including cases in which drivers said they were unable to control a runaway engine by applying the brakes.
In closing the probe, federal investigators said only 20 cases were considered relevant.
But The Times' examination of consumer complaints and a sampling of reports from Toyota dealers found more than 400 reports of sudden acceleration involving those models. And federal records show that the NHTSA knew about 260 of those cases and another 114 cases identified by Toyota.
As for its position that brakes can always overcome a vehicle's engine, the safety agency and Toyota now acknowledge that a braking system cannot always counter a wide-open throttle, as is the case in sudden acceleration.
The NHTSA began investigating the problem of sudden acceleration in the mid-1980s, after a flood of complaints about the Audi 5000. One outgrowth of the subsequent investigation was the NHTSA view that acceleration events at high speed are a different issue than events at low speed.
In 2005, for example, Jordan Ziprin of Phoenix, who had experienced a minor accident he blamed on sudden acceleration, filed a defect petition with the NHTSA that included nearly 1,200 owner complaints about Toyota vehicles. The automaker argued that the majority should be eliminated because they dealt "with two completely different issues."
When owners said the "vehicle unintentionally or suddenly 'accelerated,' " Toyota claimed that represented a different issue than when they said "the vehicle 'surged' or 'lurched.' " The NHTSA ultimately went a step further, eliminating every single complaint except Ziprin's, finding them to have "ambiguous significance."
The agency also has thrown out evidence for other reasons. In 2008, the NHTSA opened a probe of the Toyota Tacoma after a consumer found that the truck had accumulated 32 times as many sudden-acceleration complaints as any other pickup. But Toyota at the time said the complaints stemmed from "media and Internet exposure." The NHTSA closed the case without a finding after it whittled down a list of more than 450 complaints to just 62.
"To this day I still can't find evidence online of a flood of media exposure," said William Kronholm, the Helena, Mont., man who said he requested the investigation after he experienced two acceleration events in his 2006 Tacoma. "They never dealt with the question I presented in any real way."
The NHTSA has declined to reconsider previous investigations, even in the face of new evidence.
In March, Jeffrey Pepski of Plymouth, Minn., formally requested that the NHTSA reopen two closed investigations into Toyota and Lexus vehicles for the acceleration problem, arguing in part that 10 other motorists had experienced sudden acceleration that could not be explained by floor mats.
The NHTSA looked at the 10 cases and tossed them out. The agency's way of looking at them sharply contrasted with the drivers' original accounts.
In one case, the driver of a 2007 Lexus ES 350 reported that the sedan accelerated into a building, bounced backward, struck another vehicle and ended up on top of a snowbank.
But federal officials described the same case as a "single incident of alleged engine surge while parking vehicle. No trouble found by dealer."
The NHTSA denied Pepski's petition last week, arguing that further study was "not warranted."
ralph.vartabedian@ latimes.com
ken.bensinger@latimes.com
Times researcher Scott J. Wilson and Times staff writer Melissa Rohlin contributed to this report.
ken.bensinger@latimes.com
Times researcher Scott J. Wilson and Times staff writer Melissa Rohlin contributed to this report.
11-10-2009, 10:40 AM
#59
Senior Moderator
Sad. Very sad
11-10-2009, 11:51 AM
#60
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
What the F is going on Toyota????????
11-10-2009, 11:52 AM
#61
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
TPS my ass
11-10-2009, 12:43 PM
#62
...private engineers have theorized that faulty computer components could cause the computer control systems to malfunction, sending messages to the car to accelerate when it should not. In some cases, these malfunctions would not leave any evidence that could easily be detected.
"Most people are focusing on the car's electronic controls," says Clarence Ditlow of the Center for Auto Safety (CAS). "The person shifts and for some reason the computer gives the wrong signal and opens up the throttle."
"This is a new generation of defects for a new generation of high technology cars," adds Dan Howell also of CAS. He points out that unlike the earlier defect investigations that often involved a single defective part, sudden acceleration is an example of a system failure.
"Most people are focusing on the car's electronic controls," says Clarence Ditlow of the Center for Auto Safety (CAS). "The person shifts and for some reason the computer gives the wrong signal and opens up the throttle."
"This is a new generation of defects for a new generation of high technology cars," adds Dan Howell also of CAS. He points out that unlike the earlier defect investigations that often involved a single defective part, sudden acceleration is an example of a system failure.
(yes, it was from 1986. Full link here: http://multinationalmonitor.org/hype...05/wathen.html )
I wasn't in the car biz back then, but I remember the witch hunt well. Further evidence that the Large Hadron Collider is actually working and it has caused a time rift. We went through a black hole and are now reliving the 70s - 80s. Consider: we have new environmental conscienceless (Clean Air Act = Climate Change). We have an unpopular President ousted (Nixon/Ford=Bush), replaced with a young inexperienced one (Carter=Obama). We have a 'gas crisis'. We have a recession. Can tube tops, spandex and disco be next? (note: if a new version of the 'Pet Rock' comes back, please let me be the one to 'invent' it)
11-10-2009, 01:59 PM
#63
The sizzle in the Steak
Tube tops are coming back?!?!?!?!
11-10-2009, 09:28 PM
#64
11-13-2009, 02:05 PM
#65
Senior Moderator
I can't believe they have ignored this for so long. It's unbelievable how the NHTSA has handled this, too. Throwing out relevant cases and then claiming a lack of info?? Wow.
Forget about negligent. This whole situation is just completely insane.
Forget about negligent. This whole situation is just completely insane.
11-16-2009, 11:00 AM
#66
The sizzle in the Steak
Recall to replace accelerator pedals?
Toyota will soon fix or replace the accelerator pedals on up to 4 million Toyotas and Lexus vehicles in the US. This comes after Toyota Corps largest-ever recall of 3.8 million vehicles over potential for a loose floormat to force down the accelerator causing unintended acceleration.
The report coming from the Kyodo news stated that Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) had been discussing the need for a solution beyond the replacement of floormats and are in the final stages of agreeing upon a solution.
According to the report, it is likely that Toyota will voluntarily repair or replace the accelerators out of approximately 4 million vehicles in the US. The report suggests that Toyota preferred this solution as they do not believe that the vehicles pedals are defective and thus do no warrant an official recall.
The NHTSA indicated today that at this time the decision on what parts will need to be replaced or repaired is still under investigation suggesting that the accelerator pedal is only one of the possible fixes under consideration at this time.
Hideaki Honma, a Toyota spokesman, said that Toyota and the NHTSA have not reached an agreement on this matter and that talks are on-going.
The report also pointed out that the vehicles most likely to be targeted by the eventual solution will include the Toyota Prius, Camry, Avalon, Tacoma and Tundra as well as the Lexus IS250, IS350 and ES350 models.
Since 2000 there have been over 2,000 documented cases of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles, and as many as 19 deaths from resulting crashes Federal regulators say that is far more than any other automaker has experienced.
A class-action lawsuit filed on behalf of victims of unintended acceleration accidents against Toyota is still in early stages at this time.
The report coming from the Kyodo news stated that Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) had been discussing the need for a solution beyond the replacement of floormats and are in the final stages of agreeing upon a solution.
According to the report, it is likely that Toyota will voluntarily repair or replace the accelerators out of approximately 4 million vehicles in the US. The report suggests that Toyota preferred this solution as they do not believe that the vehicles pedals are defective and thus do no warrant an official recall.
The NHTSA indicated today that at this time the decision on what parts will need to be replaced or repaired is still under investigation suggesting that the accelerator pedal is only one of the possible fixes under consideration at this time.
Hideaki Honma, a Toyota spokesman, said that Toyota and the NHTSA have not reached an agreement on this matter and that talks are on-going.
The report also pointed out that the vehicles most likely to be targeted by the eventual solution will include the Toyota Prius, Camry, Avalon, Tacoma and Tundra as well as the Lexus IS250, IS350 and ES350 models.
Since 2000 there have been over 2,000 documented cases of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles, and as many as 19 deaths from resulting crashes Federal regulators say that is far more than any other automaker has experienced.
A class-action lawsuit filed on behalf of victims of unintended acceleration accidents against Toyota is still in early stages at this time.
Still a floormat & pedal issue
11-16-2009, 11:42 AM
#67
11-17-2009, 08:57 AM
#68
I'm the Firestarter
When will they realize... the cars have turned bad. There's an eeeevil in them.
11-17-2009, 12:17 PM
#69
11-25-2009, 10:14 AM
#70
The sizzle in the Steak
Toyota to reconfigure 4 million gas pedals
Japanese automaker said the move is aimed at fixing a sudden acceleration safety issue.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/25/auto...ator/index.htm
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Toyota announced Wednesday that it will fix gas pedals in millions of cars for an accelerator problem that had previously been blamed on floor mats.
The automaker said that "the shape of the accelerator pedal will be reconfigured to address the risk of floor mat entrapment." Floor pads of the vehicles will also be changed.
Irv Miller, group vice president of environmental and public affairs for Toyota, said in a teleconference that the changes will apply to at least 4 million vehicles.
In addition, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Wednesday this "vehicle-based remedy" was intended "to fix a sudden acceleration safety issue involving floor mats trapping accelerator pedals in various Toyota and Lexus models."
Drivers of the vehicles should remove the floor mats until they can have their vehicles reconfigured by Toyota, according to Miller. He also said that the distance between the gas pedal and the floor plan was the problem, and that there was no electronic issue with the vehicles.
Miller declined to say how much this reconfiguration will cost Toyota.
In October, Toyota issued a safety warning for 3.8 million Lexus and Toyota cars because of potentially deadly floor mats.
Toyota said the reconfiguration applies to the following models:
2007 to 2010 Camry
2005 to 2010 Avalon
2004 to 2009 Prius
2005 to 2010 Tacoma
2007 to 2010 Tundra
2007 to 2010 ES 350
2006 to 2010 IS 250
2006 to 2010 IS 350
In a separate issue on Tuesday, federal regulators announced the recall of 110,000 Toyota pickup trucks. The U.S. highway safety agency said road salts can cause "excessive corrosion" to the frame of the Toyota Tundra.
The automaker said that "the shape of the accelerator pedal will be reconfigured to address the risk of floor mat entrapment." Floor pads of the vehicles will also be changed.
Irv Miller, group vice president of environmental and public affairs for Toyota, said in a teleconference that the changes will apply to at least 4 million vehicles.
In addition, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Wednesday this "vehicle-based remedy" was intended "to fix a sudden acceleration safety issue involving floor mats trapping accelerator pedals in various Toyota and Lexus models."
Drivers of the vehicles should remove the floor mats until they can have their vehicles reconfigured by Toyota, according to Miller. He also said that the distance between the gas pedal and the floor plan was the problem, and that there was no electronic issue with the vehicles.
Miller declined to say how much this reconfiguration will cost Toyota.
In October, Toyota issued a safety warning for 3.8 million Lexus and Toyota cars because of potentially deadly floor mats.
Toyota said the reconfiguration applies to the following models:
2007 to 2010 Camry
2005 to 2010 Avalon
2004 to 2009 Prius
2005 to 2010 Tacoma
2007 to 2010 Tundra
2007 to 2010 ES 350
2006 to 2010 IS 250
2006 to 2010 IS 350
In a separate issue on Tuesday, federal regulators announced the recall of 110,000 Toyota pickup trucks. The U.S. highway safety agency said road salts can cause "excessive corrosion" to the frame of the Toyota Tundra.
11-25-2009, 11:36 AM
#71
Senior Moderator
It was stated on GMA this am that toyota was working on some sort of ECU update as well as the pedal that would allow the brake to override the gas for emergency situations like this.
Floor Mat my ASS! If that isnt a cover-up i dont know what is.
Floor Mat my ASS! If that isnt a cover-up i dont know what is.
11-25-2009, 12:40 PM
#72
Registered but harmless
Join Date: Aug 2005
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"As an extra safety measure, Toyota will install a brake override system on the Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES 350, IS 350 and IS 250 models. This system cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals."
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,3295310.story
Sounds fishy to me too.
11-25-2009, 12:48 PM
#73
The sizzle in the Steak
meh...think about it for a moment.
Why spend all the extra money & time re-configuring foot wells, accel. pedals, and floor mats, when "if" it's a software bug, the easy fix (and waaaaay cheaper) is to do update the software for the brake override that
cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals?
Software update is the simplest, quickest, and cheapest fix.
There is no reason to spend millions of dollars fixing footwells, mats, & pedals........unless they are the issue and not the software.
11-25-2009, 12:51 PM
#74
IDK, are you suggesting a coverup to a computer problem that is applying full throttle and then returning to normal after the crash?
11-25-2009, 04:09 PM
#75
I have personally experienced this situation with my Lexus. About a year ago driving down a local street coming up to a red light I applied the brakes to slow down the car; must have been doing about 30mph at the time. All of a sudden the engine rpms jumped up and the car surged forward for a couple of ft. I slammed on the brakes as hard as I could and as suddenly as it happened it stopped and the car came to a stop only a few inches from the car in front of me. Took the car to service and of course they found nothing wrong with it. Its been almost year and it has never happened again
11-25-2009, 05:50 PM
#77
Been a few years Colin...miss me? How was that coffee?
I have personally experienced this situation with my Lexus. About a year ago driving down a local street coming up to a red light I applied the brakes to slow down the car; must have been doing about 30mph at the time. All of a sudden the engine rpms jumped up and the car surged forward for a couple of ft. I slammed on the brakes as hard as I could and as suddenly as it happened it stopped and the car came to a stop only a few inches from the car in front of me. Took the car to service and of course they found nothing wrong with it. Its been almost year and it has never happened again
I have personally experienced this situation with my Lexus. About a year ago driving down a local street coming up to a red light I applied the brakes to slow down the car; must have been doing about 30mph at the time. All of a sudden the engine rpms jumped up and the car surged forward for a couple of ft. I slammed on the brakes as hard as I could and as suddenly as it happened it stopped and the car came to a stop only a few inches from the car in front of me. Took the car to service and of course they found nothing wrong with it. Its been almost year and it has never happened again
Re: topic at hand. I can see where a car might surge slightly under some conditions, but IMO this is not "unintended acceleration" per se. I guess if you were old, blue haired and surprised by this, you could hit the gas pedal vs. the brake. BUT since you have quick reflexes, you were able to catch it. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that there isn't something going on here that is NOT related to floor mats. All I'm suggesting is that I don't believe in cars accelerating out of control at full throttle, beyond the brake's ability to stop them AND then reverting to normal operation. The one thing that might sway me is if all the cars involved are DBW, but somehow I doubt we'd find that.
11-25-2009, 11:02 PM
#78
Punk Rocker
Conspiracy Theorists Unite!!!
meh...think about it for a moment.
Why spend all the extra money & time re-configuring foot wells, accel. pedals, and floor mats, when "if" it's a software bug, the easy fix (and waaaaay cheaper) is to do update the software for the brake override that
cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals?
Software update is the simplest, quickest, and cheapest fix.
There is no reason to spend millions of dollars fixing footwells, mats, & pedals........unless they are the issue and not the software.
meh...think about it for a moment.
Why spend all the extra money & time re-configuring foot wells, accel. pedals, and floor mats, when "if" it's a software bug, the easy fix (and waaaaay cheaper) is to do update the software for the brake override that
cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals?
Software update is the simplest, quickest, and cheapest fix.
There is no reason to spend millions of dollars fixing footwells, mats, & pedals........unless they are the issue and not the software.
It doesn't make sense for them to do all of this pedal/footwell/floormat redesigning if they really know its just an ecu problem. Its much cheaper to reprogram code than to redesign and install all new hardware into 4 million cars. They must really think its the floormats (as do I)....
11-25-2009, 11:05 PM
#79
Senior Moderator
I think what he meant was that why did they try to say at first that it was a floor mat problem, using that to cover up a bigger problem in the software or some design problem.
11-26-2009, 12:07 AM
#80
Why spend all the extra money & time re-configuring foot wells, accel. pedals, and floor mats, when "if" it's a software bug, the easy fix (and waaaaay cheaper) is to do update the software for the brake override that cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals?