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Companies are only as good as the talent they can attract. Everyone wants to work for Tesla, they don’t want to work for Ford, GM, BMW, VW, none of them even in the Top 10. That means Tesla gets the first pick, they get to fill their ranks with only the best of the best, all other car companies get the leftovers.
Tesla gets to hire all of the Peyton Mannings, and Drew Brees they want, while Porsche only has Jameis Winston, and Jay Cutler to choose from. So Tesla’s Model S has 400mi range and the Taycan costs twice as much and has 200 mi range. Bruh...
Here’s a good video showing some of the recent technological and manufacturing innovations that Tesla has been able to pull off and that no other car company has done because Tesla attracts the best engineers in the world.
This woman's reaction says it all. This is one of the reasons they're worth so much. Have you ever heard anyone say *GASP*, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN A RENAULT!?
Makes sense though, because the auto industry was in bad shape before COVID-19, now it's even worse, and the only company doing anything interesting is Tesla.
That would totally suck because tesla has a lot of room for improvement.
Anything which has no room for improvement is a total dead end. The rate of improvement it’s faster for Tesla cars than any other vehicles at present (even though they started at the lower end).
Anything which has no room for improvement is a total dead end. The rate of improvement it’s faster for Tesla cars than any other vehicles at present (even though they started at the lower end).
Are you talking software, reliability, or fit and finish? Because to me, fit and finish is lackluster for a $30k car, let alone one that is $60k. And that's coming from someone that would purchase a Model Y yesterday if Tesla got their panel gaps and paintwork up to par.
Are you talking software, reliability, or fit and finish? Because to me, fit and finish is lackluster for a $30k car, let alone one that is $60k. And that's coming from someone that would purchase a Model Y yesterday if Tesla got their panel gaps and paintwork up to par.
It's gonna be the 8924786th time I'm saying this but Tesla is like the other big 3 domestic manufacturers. Performance that blows the backs out of all the other manufacturers... with uninspired, parts-bin special interiors.
Are you talking software, reliability, or fit and finish? Because to me, fit and finish is lackluster for a $30k car, let alone one that is $60k. And that's coming from someone that would purchase a Model Y yesterday if Tesla got their panel gaps and paintwork up to par.
about fit and finish. They are getting better. With new factories they will be even better. Having said that, I’m also reevaluating whether interior niceties such as glossy wood, and luxury soft touch panels are a priority (for me) given the endless advantages of Tesla compared to its peers.
The superchargers are a class above its competitors. Even though EA has Some good and expanding charging stations, from what I understand they are charging so high rates (with the time bound charging rates) that some EV owners say they are paying 2-3 times more than a gas powered car. If you can’t charge your car economically during a trip (assuming you CAN do a trip), then it sort of defeats one of the purposes of having an EV.
All future EVs would have to address that concern and it’s going to be a problem for Non Tesla EVs such as Rivian, Mach E, Hyundai/ Kia etc.
Taycan can be excluded since it’s customer base probably don’t care about prices. .
Agreed. Realistically, if I got the Tesla it will solely be an around town car for us. We'd use the CR-V for road trips. It just doesn't make sense to have to stop for an hour to recharge for a 5hr trip (VA to SC, for example). And supercharging stations aren't as plentiful out here.
Tesla has 11,000 sales in China in July.(Such small sale volume relative to ICE cars) while in Germany some thing like 200.
In Europe Tesla practically over. i wonder what will happen to factory for such low volumes.
Renault Electric sales are sky high now.
Agreed. Realistically, if I got the Tesla it will solely be an around town car for us. We'd use the CR-V for road trips. It just doesn't make sense to have to stop for an hour to recharge for a 5hr trip (VA to SC, for example). And supercharging stations aren't as plentiful out here.
Who’s stopping for one hour to charge? If I am traveling alone that would be doable with one break of about 30-40 minutes for me, if traveling with family it’ll be like 2-3 half an hour breaks (primarily due to small kids). Either ways it won’t make much of a difference whether it’s gas or EV.
Agreed. Realistically, if I got the Tesla it will solely be an around town car for us. We'd use the CR-V for road trips. It just doesn't make sense to have to stop for an hour to recharge for a 5hr trip (VA to SC, for example). And supercharging stations aren't as plentiful out here.
+1, we have a CR-V and that's what I'm thinking as well
Who’s stopping for one hour to charge? If I am traveling alone that would be doable with one break of about 30-40 minutes for me, if traveling with family it’ll be like 2-3 half an hour breaks (primarily due to small kids). Either ways it won’t make much of a difference whether it’s gas or EV.
Except there are only 2 supercharger stations along the route that I need to take to go from here to SC, and both are in the same area.
If I stop for gas (which I don't need to do for a 400 mile drive), I'm stationary for - at most - 15 minutes. WTF am I going to do for the rest of the time?
Last edited by civicdrivr; 08-11-2020 at 10:22 AM.
Except there are only 2 supercharger stations along the route that I need to take to go from here to SC, and both are in the same area.
If I stop for gas (which I don't need to do for a 400 mile drive), I'm stationary for - at most - 15 minutes. WTF am I going to do for the rest of the time?
Elon has said that the FSD available publicly today only sees in about 2.5D, they've been rewriting the underlying code of FSD in the alpha builds for a while now so that it sees in 4D. Once that's ready to hit beta and public release stages it should be a dramatic improvement over the FSD that's available now.
all other manufacturers are so far behind Tesla and are using inferior third party parts in a desperate attempt to be competitive, they might as well get their EVs components from the company that has the best EV tech on the market. If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em
Pretty soon Tesla will be the most profitable automaker given their absolute cost cutting measures and efficiencies in manufacturing, lack of dealerships, and the scale / volume they are going for. Even if the legacy automakers make a compelling EV matching Tesla’s price point, they won’t be making any profit from it or make significantly less profit than Tesla.
Most likely Tesla will continue charging the same price for its cars even though their manufacturing costs come down significantly (until good competition arrives). When needed Tesla can easily lower the price to undercut their competitors.
Legacy is screwed.
Most likely Tesla will continue charging the same price for its cars even though their manufacturing costs come down significantly (until good competition arrives). When needed Tesla can easily lower the price to undercut their competitors.
Legacy is screwed.
Nope Tesla will continue to cut prices. Their mission is to “accelerate the transition to sustainable energy”, if they lower their prices when they can then more people can replace their ICE vehicles with EVs which reduces CO2 emissions.
Nope Tesla will continue to cut prices. Their mission is to “accelerate the transition to sustainable energy”, if they lower their prices when they can then more people can replace their ICE vehicles with EVs which reduces CO2 emissions.
Then the problem is it promotes “Osborne effect” and it’ll be incentive for me to hold off the purchase for as long as possible for real benefits. Not that it matters to me much.
Before “you know who” proclaims that Tesla is getting crushed in Europe, I’m going to go ahead and state that it was production issues; the factory shutdown disproportionately affected the European spec manufacturing schedule at Fremont.
That’s been their plan since the beginning, they still have over a million vehicles sold. All of their vehicles are much cheaper now than they originally were.
Why fossil fuels are screwed? (please ignore the political vibes in this article, I have no interest in those, interested only in the matter at hand)
Fossil Fuels Are Going Down Hard
Imagine how leaders in fossil fuels see things. People who own businesses like them to grow. Flat sales are really bad. Reduced sales are anathema. But with climate change, the companies in the fossil fuel sector are being asked by environmentalists either to come up with new business plans or to accept permanent depression for the sector, leading to inevitable business failure.
Suppose you were a fossil fuel leader, and half the states in the US pass laws that you will have to reduce sales, in many cases to nothing, in the next thirty years. You will lose half your national sales, guaranteed.
Now, suppose that the counties, cities, and towns of half of the rest of the country tell you the same thing. You will lose half of the remaining sales. Your sales are going down 75%.
Now suppose new technology comes along that can do what you do better and cheaper. You start losing customers even in areas where you still have a free market. In some cases, longstanding big customers become new and important competition. Your sales are going down even more.
All that would mean a business decline of well over 6% per year, in a state of constant grinding depression, for thirty years. But it is not the end.
Consider science. The reality of climate change is more obvious every year, adding to your woes. And somehow, people become aware of the fact that medical bills will go down with less fossil fuel use, and farms will produce better without pollution. Ordinary people want you to fail.
And now suppose that Pope Francis, Patriarch Bartholomew, Archbishop Thabo Makgoba, Rabbi Arthur Waskow, the Dalai Lama, the International Islamic Climate Change Symposium, and a great passel of other religious leaders (including probably every shaman in North America) say that your business stinks.
When you have science, the market, and religion all against you, a purchased government is just one more stranded asset.
How much worse can it get? Now, just imagine that the Attorney General of New York, with help from a bunch AGs of other states, starts going through sixty years worth of your dirty laundry. And on top of that, there are rumblings that you might be guilty of crimes against humanity.
Time To Bail
The disruption to the fossil fuels industries is already well under way. Twelve years ago, we might have wondered when coal would be on its way out. The Dow Jones Coal Index hit its high of over 740 in 2008. Today, it is down 99.3%, to about 5! Trump did it no good. (Heh!)
The Dow Jones Oil & Gas Index rose to 846 in 2014, after six years with President Obama in the White House. Today, after Trump has spent over three years trying to undo Obama’s environmental work, it is at 315, down 62.8% from its high. (Again, heh!)
When Will Fossil Fuels Fail?
Three years after it was published, Steve Hanley’s CleanTechnica article on Tony Seba’s predictions is still worth reading. Seba believed the industry would decline rather rapidly after hitting a peak in 2020. And it looks like he might have been pretty close to correct, despite things that he could not have predicted.
Though my reasoning is a little different from his (and certainly not as deep), my view is very like Seba’s: Fossil fuels businesses are in a hopeless position, unless they undergo metamorphosis. I expect it will be a bumpy ride for a while, but I see nothing that could drive a recovery and all the things I have mentioned will continue to cause decline.
I think the terminal condition of fossil fuels is already in sight, and it will be clearly in sight for all but the most deluded within five years. I expect a final collapse will be under way within another five. Take that as before the end of 2030 and possibly well before that.
My only big worry (aside from Trump’s threat to the American democracy) is that the longer we take to get to dealing with the environment, the worse things will get.
Let us know when Tesla's fit and finish is worthy of the asking price
The price they are asking is not for the fit and finish. It’s for the powertrain and new generation technology. It’s only a matter of time before the oil mafia and associated industries collapse and then everyone will be manufacturing only EVs. You can talk about fit and finish and relative prices at that time.
No, you talk about fit and finish and relative prices when there is a viable product on the market and people are shopping it against others. There are a handful of companies manufacturing and selling EVs, and while the range or straight line speed may not match Tesla's, the fit and finish is miles ahead - even for those at a lower price point.
As mentioned above, Tesla would already have my order for a Model Y if their quality control was up to snuff. Since it's not - I move on, and that sucks, because I'd love to own one.
Last edited by civicdrivr; 08-18-2020 at 01:43 PM.
No, you talk about fit and finish and relative prices when there is a viable product on the market and people are shopping it against others. There are a handful of companies manufacturing and selling EVs, and while the range or straight line speed may not match Tesla's, the fit and finish is miles ahead - even for those at a lower price point.
As mentioned above, Tesla would already have my order for a Model Y if their quality control was up to snuff. Since it's not - I move on, and that sucks, because I'd love to own one.
I agree you do have a point. Tesla fit and finish is a work in progress (not a deadend). I too am holding out for some more time like you.
For me that’s only a small aspect though.
Instead of buying a Tesla now, you should invest that amount in TSLA. You’d be able to buy whatever car you want to buy (along with a house) if you wait a few years.
I purchased a bit back in July - after kicking myself over and over again for not getting in back in March when it was under $400/share and I had a good chunk of money to invest I kept thinking it would drop again and I could jump in again sub 500, but... Live and learn
I've still made some money thus far but not nearly as much as I could've.
But yeah, the more I read and learn about the EV market, and specifically Tesla, the more I see that the sky is really the limit for them. They are the Kleenex of the EV market, and they'll continue to add products that increase profits.
Last edited by civicdrivr; 08-18-2020 at 02:49 PM.
well then they better start building infrastructures, cuz we are having blackouts every other day here due to heat wave.. i cant imagine how it will be when everyone start charging home.
and the line will be miles long at the charge stations...
08-09-2020, 12:17 PM
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+1, we have a CR-V and that's what I'm thinking as well
all other manufacturers are so far behind Tesla and are using inferior third party parts in a desperate attempt to be competitive, they might as well get their EVs components from the company that has the best EV tech on the market. If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em
I kept thinking it would drop again and I could jump in again sub 500, but... Live and learn 
