Tesla: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News
#681
Senior Moderator
^ Yup...agree. The big test for Elon is when Merc, BMW, and Audi have e-cars fully integrated into their fleet.
I'd like to see how Tesla maintains their sales and stock value by then. It'd be interesting. Again, if I'm getting electric (likely will as a next car), it won't be Tesla...it'll be a German product and perhaps Japanese if say, Lexus gets into the act properly.
I'd like to see how Tesla maintains their sales and stock value by then. It'd be interesting. Again, if I'm getting electric (likely will as a next car), it won't be Tesla...it'll be a German product and perhaps Japanese if say, Lexus gets into the act properly.
#682
Ex-OEM King
There in lies the problem. “When everyone has a true Model 3,Y, X competitor”. May be never ....
No one else has their own battery factory yet, so they rely on third party supplied batteries, they have to sell through dealerships (15-20% cost penalty), they have to use third party charging network- which will run on profit for the respective firm (EA or whatever else - compare their charges to Tesla SC). None have produced a comparable pre production model, even if they manage to compete on price, they will have to eat the ever slimmer profit. None of them have a vertically integrated production method, they rely on third party vendors for all crucial parts (so lost revenue there as well).
Now any sane person can imagine which one will be cheaper to own and operate. Tesla or the “others”?
Only the luxury branded manufacturers can claim much higher prices and get away with it (thereby keeping their bottom line secure- for sometime).
For an average cost conscious EV customer, there’s Tesla or nothing (Even Rivian is super expensive compared to Tesla).
No one else has their own battery factory yet, so they rely on third party supplied batteries, they have to sell through dealerships (15-20% cost penalty), they have to use third party charging network- which will run on profit for the respective firm (EA or whatever else - compare their charges to Tesla SC). None have produced a comparable pre production model, even if they manage to compete on price, they will have to eat the ever slimmer profit. None of them have a vertically integrated production method, they rely on third party vendors for all crucial parts (so lost revenue there as well).
Now any sane person can imagine which one will be cheaper to own and operate. Tesla or the “others”?
Only the luxury branded manufacturers can claim much higher prices and get away with it (thereby keeping their bottom line secure- for sometime).
For an average cost conscious EV customer, there’s Tesla or nothing (Even Rivian is super expensive compared to Tesla).
Tesla isn't cheap, a Model 3 is still a $55k-$60k car. If you're saying that other automakers have to pay a 15-20% penalty for dealership costs, imagine what happens when one of them goes the Tesla route. Now a BMW is 20% cheaper than a Tesla, then the fun begins for Elon.
How is Rivian super expensive compared to Tesla? They haven't even announced pricing.
#683
Sanest Florida Man
Wow the conversation got so much more intelligent in this thread as soon as I blocked ssftsx
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#684
Sanest Florida Man
In yet another example of how well integrated, and customizable Tesla’s are and their constant quest to find efficiency improvements the latest update can disable the passenger side air vents when the sensor detects that the seat is unoccupied thereby reducing power usage and improving range.
Most cars have lots of isolated ECUs and controllers that don’t talk to each other make an upgrade like this impossible to enable after the car is released, actually LOL at other cars even having the capability to be updated.
Most cars have lots of isolated ECUs and controllers that don’t talk to each other make an upgrade like this impossible to enable after the car is released, actually LOL at other cars even having the capability to be updated.
Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 07-29-2020 at 11:00 PM.
#685
Sanest Florida Man
all other manufacturers are so far behind Tesla and are using inferior third party parts in a desperate attempt to be competitive, they might as well get their EVs components from the company that has the best EV tech on the market. If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em
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Comfy (07-29-2020)
#687
Sanest Florida Man
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Comfy (07-29-2020)
#688
Sanest Florida Man
#689
am i missing something.. Tesla is cheap now? and what does manuf structure and suppliers have to do with being a specific car model's competitor?
if you removed the word Tesla, i thought you were talking about Honda or Toyota. a Model 3 performance lease, with 4500 down is about 830 with tax included... you can get a M3/M4 for the same price... Actually you can get a M3 for cheaper.
Same as Model S and Y and X.... they are not any cheaper... despite all the alleged "advantages" you said they have...
Also When you can afford to buy a $70-100k car, which one is cheaper to own should not even be part of the consideration, gas or electric cars alike.
if you removed the word Tesla, i thought you were talking about Honda or Toyota. a Model 3 performance lease, with 4500 down is about 830 with tax included... you can get a M3/M4 for the same price... Actually you can get a M3 for cheaper.
Same as Model S and Y and X.... they are not any cheaper... despite all the alleged "advantages" you said they have...
Also When you can afford to buy a $70-100k car, which one is cheaper to own should not even be part of the consideration, gas or electric cars alike.
Difference is; buying food from your favorite restaurant vs employing that chef in your own kitchen. Which one is cheaper? You tell me.
Tesla isn't cheap, a Model 3 is still a $55k-$60k car. If you're saying that other automakers have to pay a 15-20% penalty for dealership costs, imagine what happens when one of them goes the Tesla route. Now a BMW is 20% cheaper than a Tesla, then the fun begins for Elon.
.
.
Last edited by Comfy; 07-29-2020 at 11:57 PM.
#690
Senior Moderator
Because, I sat in a Tesla and personally, do not like the interior one bit. The performance, sure...impressive...but, if I'm getting that Model S with the rapper-mode, may as well consider Porsche's offering and be happier with the interior, performance, and the brand power.
Entry-level, Model 3? Nope...would rather be in the Audi e-tron.
Entry-level, Model 3? Nope...would rather be in the Audi e-tron.
#691
Ex-OEM King
EVs are not cheap compared to an ICE car for now. Yes the fun would really begin when we see the pricing of comparable EVs from these manufacturers. I would love to see a pure EV BMW of similar specs to model Y costing $50K. I may even buy it. . I would encourage every automaker to follow the Tesla route. But they seem to have a lot of inertia and face real obstacles in the form of Dealership lobby.
#692
Sanest Florida Man
Because, I sat in a Tesla and personally, do not like the interior one bit. The performance, sure...impressive...but, if I'm getting that Model S with the rapper-mode, may as well consider Porsche's offering and be happier with the interior, performance, and the brand power.
Entry-level, Model 3? Nope...would rather be in the Audi e-tron.
Entry-level, Model 3? Nope...would rather be in the Audi e-tron.
I personally don't care about leather, not that much that I would give up a long and growing list of benefits for dead cow skin.
#693
So interior is more important to you than all other benefits combined? More important than 50-100% more range, faster charging, access to an ever increasing number of thousands of super charging stations, Tesla can charge at any station an etron or Taycan can charge at plus every supercharger, an ever increasing list of features and improvements, the 2012 Model S is still getting new improvements every month.
I personally don't care about leather, not that much that I would give up a long and growing list of benefits for dead cow skin.
I personally don't care about leather, not that much that I would give up a long and growing list of benefits for dead cow skin.
#694
Because, I sat in a Tesla and personally, do not like the interior one bit. The performance, sure...impressive...but, if I'm getting that Model S with the rapper-mode, may as well consider Porsche's offering and be happier with the interior, performance, and the brand power.
Entry-level, Model 3? Nope...would rather be in the Audi e-tron.
Entry-level, Model 3? Nope...would rather be in the Audi e-tron.
#695
Sanest Florida Man
Exclusive: Panasonic aims to boost energy density in Tesla batteries by 20% - executive
Panasonic Corp (6752.T) plans to boost the energy density of “2170” battery cells it supplies to Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) by 20% in five years and commercialize a cobalt-free version “in two to three years”, the head of its U.S. EV battery business said.This is the first time Panasonic, a leading cell provider for the world’s top electric vehicle (EV) maker Tesla, has outlined these targets, putting down a marker in a highly competitive sector to stay ahead of the game.
Panasonic introduced the “2170” lithium-ion cells, with the nickel-cobalt-aluminium (NCA) cathode chemistry, for Tesla’s Model 3 in 2017. Researchers say it already has the highest energy density at above 700 watt-hour per litre.
With an even higher density, these cells could help increase how much an EV can run on a single charge, while also paving the way for smaller batteries and roomier car interiors.
A cobalt-free version on the other hand would cut reliance on a costly and controversial component, which makes batteries stable but poses ethical issues given controversial labour conditions in top producer the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk has long said he wants to move to zero-cobalt battery cells.
Panasonic has already cut cobalt content to under 5% in the NCA cathode and plans to improve its batteries in stages, its U.S. EV battery chief Yasuaki Takamoto told Reuters.
But the firm has declined to link its battery roadmap to Tesla’s future models.
Panasonic recently lost its status as Tesla’s exclusive battery supplier. The U.S. firm has partnered with South Korea’s LG Chem (051910.KS) and China’s CATL (300750.SZ).
CATL is supplying Tesla with low-cost lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries that contain no cobalt.
According to Takamoto, the average density of LFP battery cells is less than half the level of Panasonic’s latest NCA batteries. He did not name any companies.
From September, the firm will start converting lines at its factory in Nevada that it operates with Tesla as it prepares to further boost the energy density of the cells, Takamoto said.
To control safety risks associated with higher density and less cobalt, Panasonic is adjusting the composition and design for better thermal stability, Takamoto said.
He also noted there will be various battery requirements coming into play as EV usage diversifies.
Tesla’s Musk has promised to reveal significant battery advances during a “Battery Day” presentation scheduled for Sept 22. Tesla plans to introduce an EV battery that will last one million miles later this year or early next, which it jointly developed with CATL.
Panasonic introduced the “2170” lithium-ion cells, with the nickel-cobalt-aluminium (NCA) cathode chemistry, for Tesla’s Model 3 in 2017. Researchers say it already has the highest energy density at above 700 watt-hour per litre.
With an even higher density, these cells could help increase how much an EV can run on a single charge, while also paving the way for smaller batteries and roomier car interiors.
A cobalt-free version on the other hand would cut reliance on a costly and controversial component, which makes batteries stable but poses ethical issues given controversial labour conditions in top producer the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk has long said he wants to move to zero-cobalt battery cells.
Panasonic has already cut cobalt content to under 5% in the NCA cathode and plans to improve its batteries in stages, its U.S. EV battery chief Yasuaki Takamoto told Reuters.
But the firm has declined to link its battery roadmap to Tesla’s future models.
Panasonic recently lost its status as Tesla’s exclusive battery supplier. The U.S. firm has partnered with South Korea’s LG Chem (051910.KS) and China’s CATL (300750.SZ).
CATL is supplying Tesla with low-cost lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries that contain no cobalt.
According to Takamoto, the average density of LFP battery cells is less than half the level of Panasonic’s latest NCA batteries. He did not name any companies.
‘2170’ CELLS
Panasonic has already developed technologies resulting in a more than 5% increase in the energy density of “2170” cells.From September, the firm will start converting lines at its factory in Nevada that it operates with Tesla as it prepares to further boost the energy density of the cells, Takamoto said.
To control safety risks associated with higher density and less cobalt, Panasonic is adjusting the composition and design for better thermal stability, Takamoto said.
He also noted there will be various battery requirements coming into play as EV usage diversifies.
Tesla’s Musk has promised to reveal significant battery advances during a “Battery Day” presentation scheduled for Sept 22. Tesla plans to introduce an EV battery that will last one million miles later this year or early next, which it jointly developed with CATL.
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civicdrivr (07-30-2020)
#696
I have a feeling that some of these changes are already in the batteries of Model Y. They’ll announce it gradually via upgrades.
#697
A-TSX Oldie
#698
Ex-OEM King
#699
Team Owner
So interior is more important to you than all other benefits combined? More important than 50-100% more range, faster charging, access to an ever increasing number of thousands of super charging stations, Tesla can charge at any station an etron or Taycan can charge at plus every supercharger, an ever increasing list of features and improvements, the 2012 Model S is still getting new improvements every month.
I personally don't care about leather, not that much that I would give up a long and growing list of benefits for dead cow skin.
I personally don't care about leather, not that much that I would give up a long and growing list of benefits for dead cow skin.
Most of these are city commuter cars ..
That is why Range and charging time within reasons are pretty much marketing tools, as least for now.
Now Built Quality, Interior and the solid German car feel is what you feel every day and every time you get into the car.
#700
Sanest Florida Man
That logic does seem to be the opposite of why he doesn't like Apple. Tesla is more like the function over form of the EV world, but I think their form is nice too.
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Comfy (07-31-2020)
#701
Senior Moderator
So interior is more important to you than all other benefits combined? More important than 50-100% more range, faster charging, access to an ever increasing number of thousands of super charging stations, Tesla can charge at any station an etron or Taycan can charge at plus every supercharger, an ever increasing list of features and improvements, the 2012 Model S is still getting new improvements every month.
I personally don't care about leather, not that much that I would give up a long and growing list of benefits for dead cow skin.
I personally don't care about leather, not that much that I would give up a long and growing list of benefits for dead cow skin.
I agree Tesla has the infrastructure currently but that's for now because the big guns from the automotive industry have not caught up yet. It's like saying that Palm, who was one of the first to get into the market for PDAs and smartphones somehow out-built what Sony and the other powerhouse electronic shops could offer, right? I'm not saying I don't believe in Tesla but their product does not do much for me. It's "neat"...but, it's like me possibly showing you a Grand Seiko timepiece, you'd shrug and yawn. Not your thing.
Interior is very much a big element of my car purchase. It's my cabin, it's where I want to be completely comfortable and blown away with the aesthetics, amenities, and features...I tried to like the giant tablet in the Tesla but just found it...awkward. If I want a purely digital cabin, I am very very happy with how Audi is doing theirs (as an example) and feels less like fusing a giant tablet into the middle of the car and saying voila. I spend pretty much most of my time inside a car when driving it and so, yeah...the interior is THAT important.
I mean, people buy cars for different purposes so, my requirements for being pampered inside a vehicle may not be as important to someone else, right? But yeah again, Tesla...neat. Unfortunately, does nothing for me.
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Comfy (08-02-2020)
#703
#704
Ex-OEM King
Why wouldn't they announce them?
#705
#706
Logistics may be. They may not have enough of the new batteries to fill up the entire line up. And they don’t want any news like these to affect the sale of other models.
once they scale up the production enough to supply all models, then may be they’ll announce. This is just a conjecture though. Will probably have to wait till battery day anyways.
once they scale up the production enough to supply all models, then may be they’ll announce. This is just a conjecture though. Will probably have to wait till battery day anyways.
Last edited by Comfy; 07-31-2020 at 07:31 AM.
#707
Last night our power went out and we were reminded little bit of how life was in the dark ages. Just wondering if Tesla cars can be used as a power back up device yet? I read something about it a few months ago. Apparently a Model 3 has equivalent capacity to 3 Powerwalls. It’ll be one more factor for me to get an EV sooner if that has been achieved. Any news STUNNA ....?
#708
However I totally understand your point about interior aesthetics being a thing. I don’t want the entire automotive landscape to look like just one car. That would be like having a Toyota Corolla as the the only car on sale. We can have as many varieties of car as we like.
But, none will be able to compete with Tesla on range, performance, price (all together).
#709
Senior Moderator
Haven’t we heard this before (Actually repeatedly.... for a while), the big boys are coming.....???? But they never arrived. . May be you should modify that to ... the dinosaurs are coming...
However I totally understand your point about interior aesthetics being a thing. I don’t want the entire automotive landscape to look like just one car. That would be like having a Toyota Corolla as the the only car on sale. We can have as many varieties of car as we like.
But, none will be able to compete with Tesla on range, performance, price (all together).
However I totally understand your point about interior aesthetics being a thing. I don’t want the entire automotive landscape to look like just one car. That would be like having a Toyota Corolla as the the only car on sale. We can have as many varieties of car as we like.
But, none will be able to compete with Tesla on range, performance, price (all together).
#710
Sanest Florida Man
Last night our power went out and we were reminded little bit of how life was in the dark ages. Just wondering if Tesla cars can be used as a power back up device yet? I read something about it a few months ago. Apparently a Model 3 has equivalent capacity to 3 Powerwalls. It’ll be one more factor for me to get an EV sooner if that has been achieved. Any news STUNNA ....?
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Comfy (07-31-2020)
#711
Sanest Florida Man
ARK Invest has been very bullish in Tesla for years, they’re one of the very few industry investors that get. Cathie Wood is the GOAT investor. When Tesla was at $200 ARK was saying they’ll be at $4000 in 5 years
TL;DW Basically CNBC brings on someone from ARK & that person talks about Tesla’s technical lead, amazing roadmap, how screwed all the legacy manufacturers are, and CNBC just says yeah but what about Elon’s tweets
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Comfy (08-01-2020)
#712
Sanest Florida Man
Another reason I’ve mentioned many times why Tesla is and will be better than the competition is this
Companies are only as good as the talent they can attract. Everyone wants to work for Tesla, they don’t want to work for Ford, GM, BMW, VW, none of them even in the Top 10. That means Tesla gets the first pick, they get to fill their ranks with only the best of the best, all other car companies get the leftovers.
Tesla gets to hire all of the Peyton Mannings, and Drew Brees they want, while Porsche only has Jameis Winston, and Jay Cutler to choose from. So Tesla’s Model S has 400mi range and the Taycan costs twice as much and has 200 mi range. Bruh...
Companies are only as good as the talent they can attract. Everyone wants to work for Tesla, they don’t want to work for Ford, GM, BMW, VW, none of them even in the Top 10. That means Tesla gets the first pick, they get to fill their ranks with only the best of the best, all other car companies get the leftovers.
Tesla gets to hire all of the Peyton Mannings, and Drew Brees they want, while Porsche only has Jameis Winston, and Jay Cutler to choose from. So Tesla’s Model S has 400mi range and the Taycan costs twice as much and has 200 mi range. Bruh...
Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 08-01-2020 at 02:03 AM.
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Comfy (08-01-2020)
#713
#714
Another reason I’ve mentioned many times why Tesla is and will be better than the competition is this
. Tesla is practically thrown out of EU market. There is non existant sales in US.
https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/28/te...gaPkfU4GsRmNsu
In the three months ended June 30, the automaker’s revenue in China climbed 102.9% year-over-year to $1.4 billion, according to its latest SEC filing. That means China now makes up 23.3% of Tesla’s total revenues of $6 billion in the quarter, compared to just about 11% in the same period a year before
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/chines...cent-elon-musk
#715
Azine Jabroni
That's quite a misinterpretation right there.
#716
Sanest Florida Man
The future is EVs, just because a company had a good market share of ICE vehicles doesn't mean they will do well in the EV market. Just look what happened to Blackberry, and Nokia. New companies entered the market completely changed the game and the many old were cast aside and the new companies took over.
Tesla = 19% of Global Plugin Vehicle Market
#718
Sanest Florida Man
The future is EVs, just because a company had a good market share of ICE vehicles doesn't mean they will do well in the EV market. Just look what happened to Blackberry, and Nokia. New companies entered the market completely changed the game and the many old were cast aside and the new companies took over.
Tesla = 19% of Global Plugin Vehicle Market
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Comfy (08-04-2020)
#719
I think Tesla will be able to pull of a smaller Civic-sized city car with around 300mi range for $25k-$30k in 2-3 years.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...m-test-review/
This is one of the best CVT/four-cylinder combos on the market today.” Combined with its aforementioned 35-mpg average (and several 40-plus-mpg stints on highway trips), this powertrain is a convincing sign that Honda has adapted its engineering know-how to the turbo era, despite the company’s long history of high-revving, naturally aspirated engines.
#720
Tesla’s wiper controls are ruled illegal in Germany after someone crashed while using
Tesla’s wiper controls through its touchscreen have been ruled illegal in Germany after someone crashed their Model 3 while using them and fought a fine and driving ban through the court system.German courts are throwing a lot of sticks in Tesla’s wheel recently.
Last month, Tesla Autopilot and Full Self-Driving claims were judged ‘misleading’ by a German court and now they are making the use of the touchscreen to modify wiper controls in the Model 3 illegal.
A Tesla Model 3 driver got into an accident while using the touchscreen to adjust the speed of the automatic windshield wipers.
In Model 3 and Model Y vehicles, Tesla didn’t install normal windshield wiper settings through a steering wheel stalk.
Instead, the automaker is detecting the rain through its Autopilot cameras and automatically adjusting the speed based on the strength of the rainfall.
If the driver wants to adjust the speed, they need to do it through the center touchscreen.
The driver in Germany was adjusting those settings when he lost control of the vehicle and crashed.
A local district court gave him a fine and a one-month driving ban and that’s where the problem started for Tesla.
He decided to fight the punishment – bringing the case to the Higher Regional Court (OLG).
The OLG judge ruled:
“The touchscreen permanently installed in the vehicle of the Tesla brand is an electronic device within the meaning of Section 23 (1a) sentence 1 and 2 StVO, the operation of which the motor vehicle driver is only permitted under the conditions of this regulation It does not matter which purpose the driver pursues with the operation, and the setting of the functions required to operate the motor vehicle via the touchscreen (here: setting the wiper interval of the windshield wiper) is therefore only permitted if this is done with a short, Street, traffic, visibility and weather conditions adapted to the view of the screen while at the same time looking away from the traffic is connected “
The judgment sets a precedent for future Tesla drivers about the use of the touchscreen for “functions required to operate the motor vehicle.”
Guess The German ICE OEMs still have people in power to help them out.
Last month, Tesla Autopilot and Full Self-Driving claims were judged ‘misleading’ by a German court and now they are making the use of the touchscreen to modify wiper controls in the Model 3 illegal.
A Tesla Model 3 driver got into an accident while using the touchscreen to adjust the speed of the automatic windshield wipers.
In Model 3 and Model Y vehicles, Tesla didn’t install normal windshield wiper settings through a steering wheel stalk.
Instead, the automaker is detecting the rain through its Autopilot cameras and automatically adjusting the speed based on the strength of the rainfall.
If the driver wants to adjust the speed, they need to do it through the center touchscreen.
The driver in Germany was adjusting those settings when he lost control of the vehicle and crashed.
A local district court gave him a fine and a one-month driving ban and that’s where the problem started for Tesla.
He decided to fight the punishment – bringing the case to the Higher Regional Court (OLG).
The OLG judge ruled:
“The touchscreen permanently installed in the vehicle of the Tesla brand is an electronic device within the meaning of Section 23 (1a) sentence 1 and 2 StVO, the operation of which the motor vehicle driver is only permitted under the conditions of this regulation It does not matter which purpose the driver pursues with the operation, and the setting of the functions required to operate the motor vehicle via the touchscreen (here: setting the wiper interval of the windshield wiper) is therefore only permitted if this is done with a short, Street, traffic, visibility and weather conditions adapted to the view of the screen while at the same time looking away from the traffic is connected “
The judgment sets a precedent for future Tesla drivers about the use of the touchscreen for “functions required to operate the motor vehicle.”
Guess The German ICE OEMs still have people in power to help them out.