Monthly Car Sales news
#1402
אני עומד עם ישראל
#1403
אני עומד עם ישראל
#1404
My first Avatar....
#1405
I'm the Firestarter
And who can forget that the RL's door latches are practically invisible compared to the much more expensive competition.
#1406
אני עומד עם ישראל
The RL is invisible to the competition period. When was it last featured in a comparison test?
#1407
Senior Moderator
^ SSFTSX will tell you that's because there is no market for an AWD vehicle in Wisconsin and this is not a reflection of the nationwide market conditions and dealers are able to get above msrp for the RL and the RL is japan built and the RL plays with your balls while you drive and the RL will polish them too.
That is why the RL is in it's own league and the A6,5,E,M all dream to be in with their inferior NVH levels, lower ground clearance and superior sales.........
That is why the RL is in it's own league and the A6,5,E,M all dream to be in with their inferior NVH levels, lower ground clearance and superior sales.........
#1408
אני עומד עם ישראל
Are the other manufacturers posting results yet?
#1409
Only about a year ago, actually. RL remains very relevant and competitive to competition, and this makes it more exclusive.
#1411
The sizzle in the Steak
Auto sales: Worst August since 1983
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The nation's top automakers reported disappointing sales Wednesday, resulting in the worst August for industrywide auto sales in 27 years.
According to sales tracker Autodata, U.S. new vehicle sales fell just short of 1 million vehicles, a drop of 21% from a year ago, which included Cash for Clunkers. That federal program created a sugar rush of sales by dangling an incentive of up to $4,500 in cash for buyers who traded in older gas guzzlers for more efficient models
Industry sales also fell 5% from July levels. August sales typically outpace July, as deals become available on older models ahead of the fall introduction of new model year cars. August sales would equate to an annual sales pace of about 11.5 million vehicles.
"Car buying is far from repaired, and consumers hesitate before they make a big ticket purchase," said Jesse Toprak, an analyst with the auto pricing Web site Truecar.com. "It shows that the recovery is going to be much slower and more painful than expected."
This year was the weakest August sales total since the 993,100 sold in 1983. Analysts had been forecasting a weak month, with expected sales of about 1.03 million. Most of the major automakers fell short of estimates. The soft demand for autos is seen by economists as another sign of growing weakness among nervous consumers.
GM sales toppled 25% from a year ago, partly because of comparisons to the Cash for Clunkers program of last summer. The federal program created a sugar rush of sales by dangling an incentive of up to $4,500 in cash for buyers who traded in older gas guzzlers for more efficient models.
But it wasn't all Clunkers. August's sales also dropped 7% from July and fell short of forecasts from sales trackers Edmunds.com and TrueCar.
GM officials echoed that they are seeing a tougher environment for car sales.
"We are realistic. We do think that consumers will continue to be cautious in their spending," said Don Johnson, GM's vice president of U.S. sales.
GM did not get as much of a lift from Cash for Clunkers as some of its rivals. But its sales comparisons were hurt by the nearly 40,000 vehicles it sold a year ago at four brands it has since discontinued or sold -- Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab. Sales at its four continuing brands -- Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac -- fell only 11% from a year ago.
Ford (F, Fortune 500) reported an 11% drop from year-ago sales levels and a 5% decline from July. It also missed forecasts from Edmunds and TrueCar.
Most of the decline in sales were concentrated in its Focus compact sedan and its Escape small SUV, which were the company's best two sellers in the Cash for Clunkers program a year ago.
Ford announced that it made a slight trim in its fourth quarter production target, to 570,000 vehicles from 574,000 a year ago -- a sign that Ford's strong sales gains may be starting to level off in the face of softening demand for automobiles.
"Sales were weaker than expected. Right now auto sales seem to be moving horizontally," said Ken Czubay, Ford vice president of U.S. marketing, sales and service.
Japanese automaker Toyota Motor (TM), which had been the biggest winner in Cash for Clunkers sales a year ago, suffered the hardest hit to sales among the largest automakers -- sales plunged 34% from a year ago, and 12% from July.
"This month's [Toyota] results are even worse than expected," said Michelle Krebs, senior analyst with Edmunds. "Toyota still is suffering a hangover from its numerous recalls this year. It is taking a long time for Toyota to get back to 'business as usual.'"
Sales at Honda Motor (HMC) plunged 33% from a year ago, and 3% from July falling short of forecasts. Nissan sales tumbled 27% from a year ago and 7% from July.
Chrysler Group, which includes the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands, was the only one to report a modest gain in August sales, posting a 7% gain compared to both a year ago and July. But the year-over-year bar wasn't terribly high, as Chrysler got the smallest sales lift of any major automaker from the Clunkers program.
According to sales tracker Autodata, U.S. new vehicle sales fell just short of 1 million vehicles, a drop of 21% from a year ago, which included Cash for Clunkers. That federal program created a sugar rush of sales by dangling an incentive of up to $4,500 in cash for buyers who traded in older gas guzzlers for more efficient models
Industry sales also fell 5% from July levels. August sales typically outpace July, as deals become available on older models ahead of the fall introduction of new model year cars. August sales would equate to an annual sales pace of about 11.5 million vehicles.
"Car buying is far from repaired, and consumers hesitate before they make a big ticket purchase," said Jesse Toprak, an analyst with the auto pricing Web site Truecar.com. "It shows that the recovery is going to be much slower and more painful than expected."
This year was the weakest August sales total since the 993,100 sold in 1983. Analysts had been forecasting a weak month, with expected sales of about 1.03 million. Most of the major automakers fell short of estimates. The soft demand for autos is seen by economists as another sign of growing weakness among nervous consumers.
GM sales toppled 25% from a year ago, partly because of comparisons to the Cash for Clunkers program of last summer. The federal program created a sugar rush of sales by dangling an incentive of up to $4,500 in cash for buyers who traded in older gas guzzlers for more efficient models.
But it wasn't all Clunkers. August's sales also dropped 7% from July and fell short of forecasts from sales trackers Edmunds.com and TrueCar.
GM officials echoed that they are seeing a tougher environment for car sales.
"We are realistic. We do think that consumers will continue to be cautious in their spending," said Don Johnson, GM's vice president of U.S. sales.
GM did not get as much of a lift from Cash for Clunkers as some of its rivals. But its sales comparisons were hurt by the nearly 40,000 vehicles it sold a year ago at four brands it has since discontinued or sold -- Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab. Sales at its four continuing brands -- Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac -- fell only 11% from a year ago.
Ford (F, Fortune 500) reported an 11% drop from year-ago sales levels and a 5% decline from July. It also missed forecasts from Edmunds and TrueCar.
Most of the decline in sales were concentrated in its Focus compact sedan and its Escape small SUV, which were the company's best two sellers in the Cash for Clunkers program a year ago.
Ford announced that it made a slight trim in its fourth quarter production target, to 570,000 vehicles from 574,000 a year ago -- a sign that Ford's strong sales gains may be starting to level off in the face of softening demand for automobiles.
"Sales were weaker than expected. Right now auto sales seem to be moving horizontally," said Ken Czubay, Ford vice president of U.S. marketing, sales and service.
Japanese automaker Toyota Motor (TM), which had been the biggest winner in Cash for Clunkers sales a year ago, suffered the hardest hit to sales among the largest automakers -- sales plunged 34% from a year ago, and 12% from July.
"This month's [Toyota] results are even worse than expected," said Michelle Krebs, senior analyst with Edmunds. "Toyota still is suffering a hangover from its numerous recalls this year. It is taking a long time for Toyota to get back to 'business as usual.'"
Sales at Honda Motor (HMC) plunged 33% from a year ago, and 3% from July falling short of forecasts. Nissan sales tumbled 27% from a year ago and 7% from July.
Chrysler Group, which includes the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands, was the only one to report a modest gain in August sales, posting a 7% gain compared to both a year ago and July. But the year-over-year bar wasn't terribly high, as Chrysler got the smallest sales lift of any major automaker from the Clunkers program.
#1412
I'm the Firestarter
I'd be curious how US August sales compare to Canada, we didn't have cash for clunkers...
#1413
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ Even without cash for clunkers sales were lower than July...I suspect it might be the same for Canada.
#1414
Senior Moderator
Canada remained steady.
Richmond Hill, Ontario – New-vehicle sales were up 0.5 per cent in August, with light trucks leading the way, according to industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers. Light truck sales rose by 12.2 per cent, offsetting a 10.9 per cent decline in passenger cars.
“Over the last 24 months, we’ve had a half-dozen really great months, July being a good example, a half-dozen really bad months, but mostly, month-in and month-out sales have been okay but under-performing from many perspectives,” DesRosiers said. “August was such a month. The SAAR (seasonally adjusted annualized rate) was back down to 1.52 million units, a poor performance from anyone’s perspective. Canada is a market that should be able to do between 1.6 and 1.7 million units and sustain this level of sales for a number of years, so an annual rate of 1.52 million is not good.”
Manufacturer August 2010 August 2009 % change
Chrysler 16,076 14,393 +11.7
Ford 24,029 22,166 + 8.4
General Motors 23,536 23,018 + 2.3
Acura 1,451 1,644 -11.7
Audi 1,376 1,058 +30.1
BMW 2,342 2,292 + 2.2
Honda 11,463 10,574 + 8.4
Hyundai 11,403 10,418 + 9.5
Infiniti 780 604 +29.1
Jaguar 70 68 + 2.9
Kia 5,430 4,672 +16.2
Land Rover 208 134 +55.2
Lexus 1,253 1,532 -18.2
Mazda 7,486 6,880 + 8.8
Mercedes-Benz 2,254 1,992 +13.2
Mini 390 457 -14.7
Mitsubishi 1,282 1,860 -31.1
Nissan 6,102 7,071 -13.7
Porsche 134 120 +11.7
Saab - 36 -100.0
Smart 173 268 -35.4
Subaru 2,328 1,940 +20.0
Suzuki 1,004 1,315 -23.7
Toyota 11,609 16,707 -30.5
Volkswagen 3,369 3,605 - 6.5
Volvo 521 527 - 1.1
Light vehicles 136,069 135,351 + 0.5
Passenger car 60,938 68,383 -10.9
Light truck 75,131 66,968 +12.2
GM/Ford/Chrysler 63,641 56,577 + 6.8
Import nameplates 72,438 75,775 - 4.4
“Over the last 24 months, we’ve had a half-dozen really great months, July being a good example, a half-dozen really bad months, but mostly, month-in and month-out sales have been okay but under-performing from many perspectives,” DesRosiers said. “August was such a month. The SAAR (seasonally adjusted annualized rate) was back down to 1.52 million units, a poor performance from anyone’s perspective. Canada is a market that should be able to do between 1.6 and 1.7 million units and sustain this level of sales for a number of years, so an annual rate of 1.52 million is not good.”
Manufacturer August 2010 August 2009 % change
Chrysler 16,076 14,393 +11.7
Ford 24,029 22,166 + 8.4
General Motors 23,536 23,018 + 2.3
Acura 1,451 1,644 -11.7
Audi 1,376 1,058 +30.1
BMW 2,342 2,292 + 2.2
Honda 11,463 10,574 + 8.4
Hyundai 11,403 10,418 + 9.5
Infiniti 780 604 +29.1
Jaguar 70 68 + 2.9
Kia 5,430 4,672 +16.2
Land Rover 208 134 +55.2
Lexus 1,253 1,532 -18.2
Mazda 7,486 6,880 + 8.8
Mercedes-Benz 2,254 1,992 +13.2
Mini 390 457 -14.7
Mitsubishi 1,282 1,860 -31.1
Nissan 6,102 7,071 -13.7
Porsche 134 120 +11.7
Saab - 36 -100.0
Smart 173 268 -35.4
Subaru 2,328 1,940 +20.0
Suzuki 1,004 1,315 -23.7
Toyota 11,609 16,707 -30.5
Volkswagen 3,369 3,605 - 6.5
Volvo 521 527 - 1.1
Light vehicles 136,069 135,351 + 0.5
Passenger car 60,938 68,383 -10.9
Light truck 75,131 66,968 +12.2
GM/Ford/Chrysler 63,641 56,577 + 6.8
Import nameplates 72,438 75,775 - 4.4
#1415
The sizzle in the Steak
Canada hates cars...loves trucks
#1417
#1418
Safety Car
Comparisons
Here is a list I put together. Feel free to move vehicles around where you see fit as there are some obvious gray areas where vehicles kinda cross lines & do not directly compete w/ each other:
Versa 7,453 -30.9%
Fit 6,363 -51.3%
Aveo 4,019 -68.4%
Accent 3,844
Fiesta 3,315
Yaris 2,900 -37.1%
Rio 2,086
Rabbit/Golf 1,409 +70.6%
Mazda2 469
Civic 22,803 -45.2%
Corolla 20,280 -51%
Focus 15,466 -39.5%
Elantra 15,181
Jetta 10,667 -17.1% (includes SportWagen)
Mazda3 9,063 -38%
Sentra 8,206 -50%
Forte 6,260
Cobalt 5,643 -67.6%
Camry 30,764 -41.2%
Accord 25,148 -34.2%
Sonata 21,399
Altima 18,491 -31.1%
Malibu 18,182 +4.8%
Fusion 17,082 -18.7%
Sebring 4,498 +79%
Impreza 3,801 -42%
Mazda6 2,811 -16.1%
Optima 1,714
Passat 1,669 +35.4%
Kizashi 478
Impala 17,343 -15.3%
Maxima 5,226 +14.8
Taurus 5,122 +50.7%
300 2,991 -31%
Avalon 2,512 +17.3%
Azera 341
Prius 11,700 -35%
Insight 2,030 -50%
CR-Z 694
HS 594 +13.8% (is the stop sale over?)
Camaro 6,321 -27.2%
Mustang 5,570 -11.4%
Challenger 3,283 +190%
Genesis 2,889
370z 823 -1.7%
OutBack 8,053 +37%
Venza 3,644 -55.1%
Accord CrossTour 2,642
Soul 7,021
xB 1,965 -55.5%
Element 1,440 -37.5%
Cube 952 -82.2%
CR-V 19,451 -33.2%
Escape 14,838 -29.1%
Rav4 14,727 -16.4%
Equinox 10,538 -19.9%
Rogue 10,133 -3.3%
Tucson 3,343
Forester 2,965 -17%
CX-7 2,639 -1.6%
Sportage 2,529
Tiguan 1,598 -8.7%
Sorento 9,038
Edge 8,951 -17.5%
Pilot 8,484 +13.1%
Traverse 7,850 -31.5%
HighLander 7,670 -25.1%
Murano 5,153 +13.7%
CX-9 2,687 +38.1%
Veracruz 919
Touareg 242 -50.5%
Tribeca 186 -77%
Town & Country 9,472 +26%
Odyssey 9,306 +8.7%
Caravan 9,219 -13%
Sienna 8,729 +15.7%
Routan 1,560 -25.6%
Mazda5 1,146 -40.3%
IS 3,005 -35.6%
TSX 2,419 -14%
Regal 1,704
1series 1,394 +52.5%
A3 564 +17.7%
3series 8,339 -15.2%
Cclass 6,100 +43.4%
LaCrosse 5,339 +89.6%
CTS 4,155 +60.8%
ES 4,151 -23.1%
Gsedan 3,926 +17.5%; coupe 1,500 -4%
TL 2,882 -.2%
A4 2,860 -25.2%
MKZ 1,558 -3.9%
Eclass 5,882 +25.9%
5series 3,047 -13.8%
DTS 1,896 +127.9%
M 1,251 +102.4%
MKS 1,111 -18.9%
A6 725 +29.2%
GS 619 -3.8%
RL 193 +34.7%
7series 1,224 +42%
LS 939 +11%
Sclass 832 -19.3%
Town Car 825 +194.6%
STS 324 -3.9%
A8 95 -12.8%
RX 8,506 -5.1%
Q5 2,675 +78.8%
GLK 1,426 -14.4%
RDX 1,226 +75.1%
x3 892 +33.1%
EX 718 +8%
Enclave 4,595 +10.7%
MDX 4,386 +61.8%
SRC 4,325 +208.7%
x5 2,786 +21.4%
Mclass 2,473 -4%
MKX 1,715 -19.6%
GX 1,227 +78.2%
FX 784 -16.4%
x6 440 +27.9%
ZDX 428
Fit 6,363 -51.3%
Aveo 4,019 -68.4%
Accent 3,844
Fiesta 3,315
Yaris 2,900 -37.1%
Rio 2,086
Rabbit/Golf 1,409 +70.6%
Mazda2 469
Civic 22,803 -45.2%
Corolla 20,280 -51%
Focus 15,466 -39.5%
Elantra 15,181
Jetta 10,667 -17.1% (includes SportWagen)
Mazda3 9,063 -38%
Sentra 8,206 -50%
Forte 6,260
Cobalt 5,643 -67.6%
Camry 30,764 -41.2%
Accord 25,148 -34.2%
Sonata 21,399
Altima 18,491 -31.1%
Malibu 18,182 +4.8%
Fusion 17,082 -18.7%
Sebring 4,498 +79%
Impreza 3,801 -42%
Mazda6 2,811 -16.1%
Optima 1,714
Passat 1,669 +35.4%
Kizashi 478
Impala 17,343 -15.3%
Maxima 5,226 +14.8
Taurus 5,122 +50.7%
300 2,991 -31%
Avalon 2,512 +17.3%
Azera 341
Prius 11,700 -35%
Insight 2,030 -50%
CR-Z 694
HS 594 +13.8% (is the stop sale over?)
Camaro 6,321 -27.2%
Mustang 5,570 -11.4%
Challenger 3,283 +190%
Genesis 2,889
370z 823 -1.7%
OutBack 8,053 +37%
Venza 3,644 -55.1%
Accord CrossTour 2,642
Soul 7,021
xB 1,965 -55.5%
Element 1,440 -37.5%
Cube 952 -82.2%
CR-V 19,451 -33.2%
Escape 14,838 -29.1%
Rav4 14,727 -16.4%
Equinox 10,538 -19.9%
Rogue 10,133 -3.3%
Tucson 3,343
Forester 2,965 -17%
CX-7 2,639 -1.6%
Sportage 2,529
Tiguan 1,598 -8.7%
Sorento 9,038
Edge 8,951 -17.5%
Pilot 8,484 +13.1%
Traverse 7,850 -31.5%
HighLander 7,670 -25.1%
Murano 5,153 +13.7%
CX-9 2,687 +38.1%
Veracruz 919
Touareg 242 -50.5%
Tribeca 186 -77%
Town & Country 9,472 +26%
Odyssey 9,306 +8.7%
Caravan 9,219 -13%
Sienna 8,729 +15.7%
Routan 1,560 -25.6%
Mazda5 1,146 -40.3%
IS 3,005 -35.6%
TSX 2,419 -14%
Regal 1,704
1series 1,394 +52.5%
A3 564 +17.7%
3series 8,339 -15.2%
Cclass 6,100 +43.4%
LaCrosse 5,339 +89.6%
CTS 4,155 +60.8%
ES 4,151 -23.1%
Gsedan 3,926 +17.5%; coupe 1,500 -4%
TL 2,882 -.2%
A4 2,860 -25.2%
MKZ 1,558 -3.9%
Eclass 5,882 +25.9%
5series 3,047 -13.8%
DTS 1,896 +127.9%
M 1,251 +102.4%
MKS 1,111 -18.9%
A6 725 +29.2%
GS 619 -3.8%
RL 193 +34.7%
7series 1,224 +42%
LS 939 +11%
Sclass 832 -19.3%
Town Car 825 +194.6%
STS 324 -3.9%
A8 95 -12.8%
RX 8,506 -5.1%
Q5 2,675 +78.8%
GLK 1,426 -14.4%
RDX 1,226 +75.1%
x3 892 +33.1%
EX 718 +8%
Enclave 4,595 +10.7%
MDX 4,386 +61.8%
SRC 4,325 +208.7%
x5 2,786 +21.4%
Mclass 2,473 -4%
MKX 1,715 -19.6%
GX 1,227 +78.2%
FX 784 -16.4%
x6 440 +27.9%
ZDX 428
#1419
אני עומד עם ישראל
Thanks TSX, I remember the days when the TL use to be neck and neck with the 3 series and C class, maybe not in overall sales, but in the top 3.
#1421
אני עומד עם ישראל
What's the RL's competition then?
#1422
RL is the same car as TL. same size, engine, transmission, technology with bit up scale interior. Infact the navigation system/Audio in RL is dated compared to TL.
RL is not some thing separate. There is less gap between RL & TL than between 528 & 535/550I.
RL is not some thing separate. There is less gap between RL & TL than between 528 & 535/550I.
#1423
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Maybe someone should let edmunds, car and driver, road and track, KBB, automobile, motortrend, etc. etc. etc. know that the TL competes in the midsize luxury range now.
And while you're at it, send the memo to Honda too, 'cuz they didn't know that yet either.
And while you're at it, send the memo to Honda too, 'cuz they didn't know that yet either.
#1424
אני עומד עם ישראל
The TL which tops at 45k competes with a 70k 5 series?
#1425
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And it starts at like $35k.
SSFTSUX will do whatever he can to make Acura/Honda look good. Why not just throw the accord into the entry-level luxury mix. After all, the TSX is a rebadged accord and competes in that segment, so if they throw it into the entry level luxury mix they can say that they're dominating in that segment!
While you're at it, pass the dutchy on the left hand side.
SSFTSUX will do whatever he can to make Acura/Honda look good. Why not just throw the accord into the entry-level luxury mix. After all, the TSX is a rebadged accord and competes in that segment, so if they throw it into the entry level luxury mix they can say that they're dominating in that segment!
While you're at it, pass the dutchy on the left hand side.
#1426
LUXURY MARKET STATUS
The 2010 TL enters the competitive luxury market at an ideal time as the segment in which it competes is expected to remain strong into the next decade. Available with the largest and most powerful engine in TL history, along with the sport-driving focused SH-AWD® system (the world's first torque-vectoring AWD system when introduced in 2000), the 2010 TL competes with vehicles such as the Audi A4 and A6, BMW 3-Series and 5-Series, Infiniti G35 and M35, Lexus ES, GS and IS sedans, and the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class.
The 2010 TL enters the competitive luxury market at an ideal time as the segment in which it competes is expected to remain strong into the next decade. Available with the largest and most powerful engine in TL history, along with the sport-driving focused SH-AWD® system (the world's first torque-vectoring AWD system when introduced in 2000), the 2010 TL competes with vehicles such as the Audi A4 and A6, BMW 3-Series and 5-Series, Infiniti G35 and M35, Lexus ES, GS and IS sedans, and the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class.
#1427
Suzuka Master
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The 2010 TL enters the competitive luxury market at an ideal time as the segment in which it competes is expected to remain strong into the next decade. Available with the largest and most powerful engine in TL history, along with the sport-driving focused SH-AWD® system (the world's first torque-vectoring AWD system when introduced in 2000), the 2010 TL competes with vehicles such as the Audi A4 and A6, BMW 3-Series and 5-Series, Infiniti G35 and M35, Lexus ES, GS and IS sedans, and the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class.
Can Acura even make up their minds?
#1428
Alll i am saying there is large variations in other manufacturers car line up.
Acura do that variation with new name plates. like TL & RL. they are same size. infact TL is bit wider than RL.
#1429
אני עומד עם ישראל
Who does the TSX compete with? IS250s C300s? Who competes with the C350 and IS350 the TL? Who competes with the 550i the TL? There's a lot of ground to cover...
#1431
Registered but harmless
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Part of the reason is the pricing, and part of it is the size of the TL.
The TL (3G and 4G) was nearest in pricing to the 3- series, C-class and A4, but sizewise was closer to the 5- series, E-class and A6.
It's thus up to the buyers to really decide which vehicles are direct competitors based on their prioritization of the price, size and performance factors.
#1432
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I don't think Acura can decide on the class of the direct competitor.
Part of the reason is the pricing, and part of it is the size of the TL.
The TL (3G and 4G) was nearest in pricing to the 3- series, C-class and A4, but sizewise was closer to the 5- series, E-class and A6.
It's thus up to the buyers to really decide which vehicles are direct competitors based on their prioritization of the price, size and performance factors.
Part of the reason is the pricing, and part of it is the size of the TL.
The TL (3G and 4G) was nearest in pricing to the 3- series, C-class and A4, but sizewise was closer to the 5- series, E-class and A6.
It's thus up to the buyers to really decide which vehicles are direct competitors based on their prioritization of the price, size and performance factors.
Fact of the matter is there is a generally accepted practice of which SEGMENT each car belongs in, and this usually comes down to price and configuration (e.g. "sedan").
TSX - $29K to $34k
TL - $35k to $43k
RL - $47k to $54k
Audi A3 - $27k to $30k
Audi A4/S4 - $34k to $46k
Audi A6 - $45k to $59
BMW 1 - $29k to $40k
BMW 3 - $33k to $43k
BMW 5 - $46k to $60k
Infiniti G - $30k to $44k
Infiniti M - $45k to $60k
Lexus IS - $32k to $38k
Lexus GS - $45k to $58k
Mercedes C - $33k to $39k
Mercedes E - $49k to $59k
Get my point? If you look at any of these lists, you will see that many have overlapping prices between the ranges. So it can be a competitor to an individual buyer who is lookign to buy in the price point where the overlap occurs, but general practice is that's not how it's done.
And the ONLY other thing the TL has that blurs the lines more is size, but the TL has always been bigger than its direct competitors. Not only that, the M is considered a "large car" per EPA rules so it's in the 7-series size...but you don't see people running around saying that the M "no longer competes with the E/5/GS/A6 because it's bigger" do you?
And i'm not going to even consider SSFTSUX's arguments that "the M is inferior in build quality/materials/stereo/ground clearance/rear view mirror aerodynamics, blah blah blah more bullshit from my ass so it can't even compete with the TL but costs more because it's imported" bullshit in this discussion.
So yes, for individual buyers in certain price points, any of these cars with overlapping prices can be competitors to each other, but generally accepted practice is they fit NEATLY into their respective segments as shown above, unless you consider bullshit that SSFTSUX pulls out his ass, which in that case the TL competes with Aston Martins.
And if anyone's willing to entertain SSFTSUX's assertion that the M costs so much even though it's below TL levels because it's imported, then that means the TSX must be a real bucket of shit and is on par only with honda civics, because it's priced higher only because it costs so much to import it.
Last edited by mrdeeno; 09-03-2010 at 11:43 AM.
#1433
I'm the Firestarter
Also, does A4 include A5/S4/S5?
#1434
At the shopper or individual consumer level, I agree with your assessment. But then at that level, you can also say that the Accord or Camry, or maxima and avalon, can be "competitors" to midsize or entry level luxury cars.
Fact of the matter is there is a generally accepted practice of which SEGMENT each car belongs in, and this usually comes down to price and configuration (e.g. "sedan").
TSX - $29K to $34k
TL - $35k to $43k
RL - $47k to $54k
Audi A3 - $27k to $30k
Audi A4/S4 - $34k to $46k
Audi A6 - $45k to $59
BMW 1 - $29k to $40k
BMW 3 - $33k to $43k
BMW 5 - $46k to $60k
Infiniti G - $30k to $44k
Infiniti M - $45k to $60k
Lexus IS - $32k to $38k
Lexus GS - $45k to $58k
Mercedes C - $33k to $39k
Mercedes E - $49k to $59k
Get my point? If you look at any of these lists, you will see that ALL have overlapping prices between the ranges. So it can be a competitor to an individual buyer who is lookign to buy in the price point where the overlap occurs, but general practice is that's not how it's done.
And the ONLY other thing the TL has that blurs the lines more is size, but the TL has always been bigger than its direct competitors. Not only that, the M is considered a "large car" per EPA rules so it's in the 7-series size...but you don't see people running around saying that the M "no longer competes with the E/5/GS/A6 because it's bigger" do you?
And i'm not going to even consider SSFTSUX's arguments that "the M is inferior in build quality/materials/stereo/ground clearance/rear view mirror aerodynamics, blah blah blah more bullshit from my ass so it can't even compete with the TL but costs more because it's imported" bullshit in this discussion.
So yes, for individual buyers in certain price points, any of these cars with overlapping prices can be competitors to each other, but generally accepted practice is they fit NEATLY into their respective segments as shown above, unless you consider bullshit that SSFTSUX pulls out his ass, which in that case the TL competes with Aston Martins.
Fact of the matter is there is a generally accepted practice of which SEGMENT each car belongs in, and this usually comes down to price and configuration (e.g. "sedan").
TSX - $29K to $34k
TL - $35k to $43k
RL - $47k to $54k
Audi A3 - $27k to $30k
Audi A4/S4 - $34k to $46k
Audi A6 - $45k to $59
BMW 1 - $29k to $40k
BMW 3 - $33k to $43k
BMW 5 - $46k to $60k
Infiniti G - $30k to $44k
Infiniti M - $45k to $60k
Lexus IS - $32k to $38k
Lexus GS - $45k to $58k
Mercedes C - $33k to $39k
Mercedes E - $49k to $59k
Get my point? If you look at any of these lists, you will see that ALL have overlapping prices between the ranges. So it can be a competitor to an individual buyer who is lookign to buy in the price point where the overlap occurs, but general practice is that's not how it's done.
And the ONLY other thing the TL has that blurs the lines more is size, but the TL has always been bigger than its direct competitors. Not only that, the M is considered a "large car" per EPA rules so it's in the 7-series size...but you don't see people running around saying that the M "no longer competes with the E/5/GS/A6 because it's bigger" do you?
And i'm not going to even consider SSFTSUX's arguments that "the M is inferior in build quality/materials/stereo/ground clearance/rear view mirror aerodynamics, blah blah blah more bullshit from my ass so it can't even compete with the TL but costs more because it's imported" bullshit in this discussion.
So yes, for individual buyers in certain price points, any of these cars with overlapping prices can be competitors to each other, but generally accepted practice is they fit NEATLY into their respective segments as shown above, unless you consider bullshit that SSFTSUX pulls out his ass, which in that case the TL competes with Aston Martins.
with Accord & Camry?.
There is clear difference between TL & family mid size sedans.
TL interior, functionality, striking design, performance, suspension to absorb shocks, quality of materials well above most of mid size sedans.
Infact Edmunds has declared Acura RL fit & finish better than Germans. So if TL is a step below RL. It is atleast equal to its mid size German counter parts.
There is issue with Imported and domestic manufactured priceing. Thats why TSX V6 is priced like TL FWD.
#1435
אני עומד עם ישראל
The TL is a Bentley killer.
#1436
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
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bullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbu llshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbull shitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullsh itbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshit bullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbu llshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbullshitbull shit
#1437
אני עומד עם ישראל
Try to pull 0.92g on 19inch and 104 feet 0-60 braking or 57 dba NVH
with Accord & Camry?.
There is clear difference between TL & family mid size sedans.
TL interior, functionality, striking design, performance, suspension to absorb shocks, quality of materials well above most of mid size sedans.
Infact Edmunds has declared Acura RL fit & finish better than Germans. So if TL is a step below RL. It is atleast equal to its mid size German counter parts.
There is issue with Imported and domestic manufactured priceing. Thats why TSX V6 is priced like TL FWD.
with Accord & Camry?.
There is clear difference between TL & family mid size sedans.
TL interior, functionality, striking design, performance, suspension to absorb shocks, quality of materials well above most of mid size sedans.
Infact Edmunds has declared Acura RL fit & finish better than Germans. So if TL is a step below RL. It is atleast equal to its mid size German counter parts.
There is issue with Imported and domestic manufactured priceing. Thats why TSX V6 is priced like TL FWD.
#1438
TL has the best breaking performance in its class and not only that it is the quality of brakes that can survive long term tests. TL has the best slolam run its class. Almost matching cars much smaller than its Size. It is matter of time when whole world wakes up.
#1439
Suzuka Master
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Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
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A 3-series can be equipped to have better performance than a 7 series, so all of a sudden they're competitors?
And speaking of "breaking", something's broken alright, and i think it's your logic.
#1440
Wait, so is the TL competing with entry luxury, midsize luxury, or high performance sports cars like lotuses and porsches? Because you're all over the freakin place.
A 3-series can be equipped to have better performance than a 7 series, so all of a sudden they're competitors?
And speaking of "breaking", something's broken alright, and i think it's your logic.
A 3-series can be equipped to have better performance than a 7 series, so all of a sudden they're competitors?
And speaking of "breaking", something's broken alright, and i think it's your logic.
TL is not lacking in space or comfort, NVH compared to other mid size premium cars and will out last them in life.