civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Yea, but the issue I was pointing out was the size difference, or lack there of, between the two cars.

fsttyms1

If the RL is going to be the flagship it needs to be 7 series sized

SSFTSX

2G TSX is same size as Audi A4.
Lenght wise G37 is longer.
BMW 3/lexus IS will grow in size to similar level in next FMC.
Acura is not doing some thing unique

4G TL is almost same size as RL. It is pretty comparable to M37/BMW 5/Audi A6. MB E/Lexus GS dont compete in this class they dont handle well.

It is too create space for model below TSX.
I say that after MMC TSX is the quietest/ refined sedan in its class.

smarty666

smarty666

It must grow to Titanic proportions as my friend pttl will tell ya !

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, right now they are kinda in a mess in this transitional period.

Hapa DC5

Eh, the MMC for the TL wasn't too huge of a difference. The product has been out for a few years and without the brand cache of BMW, Lexus, or MB it was getting stale and no incentive to buy it just because of the name. It was a fantastic car nonetheless. Still outsold the current G even after it was 4 years old I truly loved my 3G, but I just wanted a car that was fun to drive, my FWD TL was a bit boring..........

smarty666

Are you talking about the 3G TL or 4G TL? I'm assuming 3G since that did outsell the G Sedan.

pttl

hmmm...should I dig out my prototype image? Or cividrivr's production model?

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

The G37 came out in 2008, I wonder if some of the sales drop was from people deciding to wait one more year and opt for the G37 instead.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Edward'TLS

This is exactly my point. Acura is not going after the Tier-1 brands, then why on earth is Acura moving it's products to line up with those from the true-Tier-1 brands ? Shouldn't the Acura products be lining up with those from the other SMART-LUXURY brands, if such ever exist !?

It's like saying one thing, but doing the opposite.

Isn't it suicidal to price the Acura products towards the Tier-1 brand level, when it is crystal clear that the Acura brand is not pursuing to become a true Tier-1 brand ?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Ive been thoroughly confused with Acura since around 2007-08. Trying to make sense of their direction is just going to give you a headache.

Hapa DC5

3G.... 4G gawd no.

SSFTSX

Smart luxury means safety/fuel economy/reliability/quality/features.
for example 2007 TL Type S which is MMC will never reach fuel economy of 2011 TSX V6 nor its refinement/quality/performance on auto transmission on 18inch/high ground clearance.
I am not going into subjective things like quietness. or Song by voice feature utility.
There is no other smart luxury brand as it cannot be created.

Acura 4G TL is the lightest/Safest/best handling/best reliablity/Quality (No wear & tear of suspension or bald tires) AWD sedan in its class. When you look at whole package it is smart.

Hapa DC5

What about prettiest?

Edward'TLS

I find it pointless to compare newer Acura models with older Acura models, because newer models will always be superior given the latest technology. If an auto maker starts releasing new vehicles that are worst than the older ones, that auto maker is heading for disaster for sure.

Better comparisons will be against competitor's industry benchmark models. Comparing Acura vehicles against themselves will only lost track of what's truly the best out there in the auto market.

So the 4G TL is smart. How about the rest of the Acura lineup ? Is the Canadian Acura CSX smart ? Is the poor-selling RL smart ? Is the odd-ball ZDX smart ?

It seems that Acura is the unique SMART LUXURY brand, with no equal on earth. How should these autos be priced ? Should they be priced above or below those by the true-Tier-1 brands ?

SSFTSX

so you agree Acura is advancing from older models. There is big jump in refinement/fuel economy/safety from Acura.
let see Industry benchmarks. Infiniti G25/37 is the cheapest competitor to TSX. TSX V6 is priced between G25 & G37. its performance is between G25 & G37 but its fuel economy/safety/reliablity is better than both. It looks wider and modern than the stale design of G.
. It is priced where it shoud be considering its standard features.
It lacks high end features like 6AT/SH-AWD but Acura is not charging price for them any way.
there is new Sub TSX car coming in. that will be better than CSX in every way. and ZDX has its own place. High Coupe. its nich market but there is place for it. There is TL MMC that will make it more competitive. and than whole Hybrid/New engine technologies. Acura is on path of Smart luxury.

Hapa DC5

Looks are purely subjective, but most agree the G is a nice looking car. What's stale is the same bullshit being spewed from your finger tips over and over and over.

I got 28mpg highway on my most recent trip with my G. What does a TSX V6 get?

SSFTSX

2011 TSX refresh will make it more modern looking. G/3 series are pretty much outdated designs.


you get 28mpg. I get 35mpg on freeway.
2011 TSX V-6 will be nearly the same as 2009 I-4 TSX.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, it was doing decently. But it was still declining at an increasing rate, despite having an extra trim (the Type S). Looking back at some old posts in the 3G forum, one can also find that Acura was discounting the TL Type S by quite a bit too. And then the economy crashed, then the 4G TL came out.

Could be. On the other hand, there are always people waiting for the next model from other manufacturers. Anyways, my point was that, there could be many reasons. Not all of them are excuses.

Hmm...the way I see is that, they are repositioning their cars so that they are not out of place (like they are right now). You know, TSX vs 3 series, TL vs 5 series, RL vs 7 series. Smart luxury in my mind does not equal to cheap luxury. It's like, a good deal doesn't mean a cheap deal. If Acura came out to say, "we are going to continue to be a cheap luxury brand, so we will move the price up," then that would be saying one thing, but doing the opposite. But clearly, that's not what they are doing now.

I agree that auto makers need to come out with better products. But I believe that you were saying Honda wasn't making any progress. You were saying things like the J series is old and there's not any update to it and so it's not competitive. You suddenly changed your mind? I apologize if I misunderstood what you were saying.

I think you are getting to far ahead. Like you were saying, Acura doesn't seem to have a clear direction. But now they do (not sure if they will change their mind again). They are going to that smart luxury direction, meaning that they are not there just yet. What they offer now, IMO, are not really smart luxury cars.

According to Car and Driver in their recent comparison test, the TSX V6 got 28mpg in the real world in a road test environment with its ancient 5AT. The other competitors, the VW CC 2.0T and Buick Regal CXL Turbo, got 29mpg and 27mpg respectively. The VW and Regal were equipped with 6AT. The TSX V6 also dominated ALL but one acceleration tests by some distance too.

SSFTSX

I had fair bit experiance with TSX V-6 as loaner. (As i told you before about the acceleration of V-6 in previous threads)
the mpg difference with I-4 isnt that big. one or two mpg on freeway at higher speeds above 75+mph. what makes the difference is the style of driving. I used to drive agreesive passing and merging in commute. you have to revive I-4 higher up the rpm with paddle shifter to manage it. with V-6 with its abundance of power you just slightly tap the gas. the end result is V-6 gets better mpg with my style of driving than I-4.
with 2011 fuel efficiency improvement. i doubt there will be any difference left between 2009 I-4 and 2011 V-6.
If people drive 50% city and 50% freeway. combined fuel economy will nearly be identical.

Hapa DC5

Larger engine, 48 more hp, same MPG I'll take it.

I would hope when Acura introduces a 6AT the mileage will be atleast 30mpg highway.

SSFTSX

we are discussing real world MPG. not EPA figures

Hapa DC5

So am I................................................. ....................

You get 35mpg with 127 less hp and a beak. No thanks.

Shift_Acura

Why is it so confusing for some people to understand what Acura is trying to do?

TSX is now slightly larger and offers a V6 to be competitive with the A4/3series/G/C Class

TL is larger with AWD/6 AT/More options than before so it can compete (sort of) with the E/5/M/GS/A6

ZDX is the niche CUV because thats what the trend was when they started designing it.

RDX is now available with FWD/ Non turbo, therefore its cheaper , which should increase sales?

MDX - Dont need to explain.

RL is a mess.

Coupe - Doesnt exist.


They have a very small/limited line up. Currently they offer more options/variations than they have ever before. We wanted a more powerful TSX and a SH-AWD TL and we got them both. Consumers will never ever be fully satisfied

Hapa DC5

What dealer do you get your car serviced at?

SSFTSX

where did i say anywhere that TSX V-6 is less than 35mpg?. I have measured both the cars thorougly. Agressive drivng V-6 wins over I-4. steady driving at below 70mph. I-4 is better by 2mpg. Go above 75mph. TSX-6 wins by 2mpg. and that is pre MMC TSX V6.

Hapa DC5

Polarizing styling. It's tough to please everyone, but the styling direction is

Hapa DC5

You think that the 2011 TSX V6 will achieve 35mpg.

You're in the Bay Area what dealer do you go to for servicing?

SSFTSX

i have serviced almost 10 dealers between my two TSXs. not all in Bayarea depends on timing/location/discounts. currnetly there is good deals on Certified V-6 TSX. but i am waiting for MMC V-6 TSX/TL. as my car is more than 2 years old. and it will need new set of tires/brake pads/transmission fluid etc.

Shift_Acura

Maybe you should have asked yourself that question when you were paying for the most expensive TL model

SSFTSX

I have no doubt 2011 TSX V-6 will achive 35mpg.

Hapa DC5

'11 V6 is rated at 28mpg highway... that would be almost 7mpg off from real world numbers. I can see maybe 30-32mpg highway with an extra cog in the transmission. http://www.acura.com/DimensionsCapac...modelYear=2011

Shift_Acura

I dont think the TSX or MDX look at all.

The TL and RDX are

RL is meh.

ZDX looks very cool in person but the front is

Like I said before, the line up is so small that even if 2 of their cars look it will have a big impact on the entire brand.

This is strictly for the exterior styling. Interior wise they are all

SSFTSX

you can get 30 to 32mpg on current TSX V-6. 2011 is 2mpg better on combined driving. 34 to 35mpg is pretty doable on freeway.



Even car connection got combined higher than 23mpg. which is better than 21mpg combined.



When drive by the same people under similar conditions. Acura beats EPA by 2mpg but Infiniti failes to meet the estimates. Only Acura has the consistently beating EPA.

Hapa DC5

Huh you just contradicted yourself? These people are not hitting anywhere near 35mpg in the TSX V6.

Hapa DC5

Show me something supporting 35mpg on the freeway with the TSX. If not, stop posting.

SSFTSX

I didnot contridict myself. you have hard time interpreting data of various driving conditions.
Carconnection does not support G37 EPA 26
figures. but you got 28mpg.. which is better than EPA.

50mile in dense city traffic. mpg can drop to 15mpg. so you can potentially lose 3 gallons on 50 mile stretch.

Carconnection got better than EPA on there TSX by more than 2mpg. So suppose if you drive the same TSX V6 like your G37. your going to beat that 28mpg figure.

Hapa DC5

I have hard time interpreting bullshit. Show me a 35mpg TSX V6.......