Acura: TLX News
07-29-2003, 07:24 PM
#1721
Banned
Originally posted by ender
have you noticed how cost effective Acura is.
They are using the same dash and steering wheel for all the interior colors.
have you noticed how cost effective Acura is.
They are using the same dash and steering wheel for all the interior colors.
07-29-2003, 08:22 PM
#1722
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Originally posted by JRock
If you want to know what a Quartz interior looks like go to your local Acura dealer and check out a Sagebrush MDX or a Meteor Silver TSX. Both are only available with Quartz interiors so that should help.
If you want to know what a Quartz interior looks like go to your local Acura dealer and check out a Sagebrush MDX or a Meteor Silver TSX. Both are only available with Quartz interiors so that should help.
07-29-2003, 09:59 PM
#1724
Banned
Originally posted by need4spd
Tires definitely are out of wack with the car (not just the wheels). Most makers went up in Diameter, but it looks like Acura stayed the same, the overall diameter of the tires look way too small (but do fit the openings well), not sure if 18" will help the look, as fundimentaly the tires are two small (leave it to conservative Acura!
) In comparison, the BMW 7 series went from 26.8" to 27.8", a full 1" bigger, just like adding an 1" to a wheel/rim, adding an 1" to a tire is impressive, if Acura stuck with the overall same diameter as the old TL type S (same as TSX) it will change from right size on the TSX as compared to the proportions, to wrong sized, sorry that IMO, but look closely, the tires, not just the wheels are not ballance to the proportions of the car (which are high and stocky, as Acura said at the NY auto show, athletic)
Tires definitely are out of wack with the car (not just the wheels). Most makers went up in Diameter, but it looks like Acura stayed the same, the overall diameter of the tires look way too small (but do fit the openings well), not sure if 18" will help the look, as fundimentaly the tires are two small (leave it to conservative Acura!
) In comparison, the BMW 7 series went from 26.8" to 27.8", a full 1" bigger, just like adding an 1" to a wheel/rim, adding an 1" to a tire is impressive, if Acura stuck with the overall same diameter as the old TL type S (same as TSX) it will change from right size on the TSX as compared to the proportions, to wrong sized, sorry that IMO, but look closely, the tires, not just the wheels are not ballance to the proportions of the car (which are high and stocky, as Acura said at the NY auto show, athletic)
The new TL is SMALLER than the old TL. Why do you think it needs at least 18" wheels again?
07-29-2003, 10:04 PM
#1725
Banned
Originally posted by dmac
and why do the rear wheels look SO small...hopefully hpt will change that along w/ some brembos. Is any1 still hoping for AWD...i dont think it will happen though, the dealer said FWD 270hp (dyno rating probably higher) Maybe in a couple of years.
and why do the rear wheels look SO small...hopefully hpt will change that along w/ some brembos. Is any1 still hoping for AWD...i dont think it will happen though, the dealer said FWD 270hp (dyno rating probably higher)
Maybe in a couple of years.
07-29-2003, 10:06 PM
#1726
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wow, I never thought I would get through all 28 pages, even though it took me all day due to damn work.....
Off the subject first.....I saw a real neat feature in the new Pacifica today while driving in my development, the rear hatch closes by itself, thats kinda cool.
Ok, now about the new TL......
I like the new interior for the most part, huge new Navi screen <drool>
I hate the e-brake in the console, so freakin cheesy looking, leave it on the floor, out of the way and hidden.
I dislike the absence of fogs standard, but I like the dual zone a/c and heat, my wife really wished I had that in my TL, which I just bought last week BTW.
But I suppose that is all for now, long day and time to pass out.....
Off the subject first.....I saw a real neat feature in the new Pacifica today while driving in my development, the rear hatch closes by itself, thats kinda cool.
Ok, now about the new TL......
I like the new interior for the most part, huge new Navi screen <drool>
I hate the e-brake in the console, so freakin cheesy looking, leave it on the floor, out of the way and hidden.
I dislike the absence of fogs standard, but I like the dual zone a/c and heat, my wife really wished I had that in my TL, which I just bought last week BTW.
But I suppose that is all for now, long day and time to pass out.....
07-29-2003, 11:00 PM
#1729
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Originally posted by Iceman
???
The new TL is SMALLER than the old TL. Why do you think it needs at least 18" wheels again?
???
The new TL is SMALLER than the old TL. Why do you think it needs at least 18" wheels again?
Just look at the 19" wheels on the concept TL (now on acura.com) and you will see how much better the car looks without looking like the tires are a piece of black tape on a rim.
the 25.4" diameter 235/45-17's are just too small for today's demands for larger rim sizes (if you increase the tire diameter, you can go up in rim size without compimising ride quality as the tire thickness between road and wheel such as going from a 17" to an 18" by going from 25.4" diameter tire to a 26.8" tire, ie 245/45-18) and stay close to constant, but with the larger contact patch and slightly stiffer side wall, increase handling.
(Just don't expect to drive in the snow with too much contact patch, but since the HPT is summer, it does not matter)
07-30-2003, 07:48 AM
#1732
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by RJC RSX
Not sure if this has been mentioned here or not, but Jeff at TOV said that the HPT model won't be marketed as "HPT".
Not sure if this has been mentioned here or not, but Jeff at TOV said that the HPT model won't be marketed as "HPT".
Personally, I do not care, but I do car what will be included in this nameless package.
07-30-2003, 07:53 AM
#1733
Suzuka Master
The rims and tires on the concept were amazing, as seen in my blurry avatar.
If the HPT model only had the concept rims and tires, I would buy it. The rims looked REALLY aggressive IMHO and appealing!
If the HPT model only had the concept rims and tires, I would buy it. The rims looked REALLY aggressive IMHO and appealing!
07-30-2003, 08:23 AM
#1735
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Originally posted by EmuMessenger
The rims and tires on the concept were amazing, as seen in my blurry avatar.
If the HPT model only had the concept rims and tires, I would buy it. The rims looked REALLY aggressive IMHO and appealing!
The rims and tires on the concept were amazing, as seen in my blurry avatar.
If the HPT model only had the concept rims and tires, I would buy it. The rims looked REALLY aggressive IMHO and appealing!
07-30-2003, 08:45 AM
#1736
Originally posted by stlgasman
I went down to Acura. The Meteor Silver is an exquisite color. Too bad that isn't offered on the TL. I checked out the Quartz interior. In the TSX it has the metal trim, however, IMHO the wood would look fine in the Quartz. If anyone gets a confirm on the wood or metal in the Quartz please post. By the way is the wood real?
I went down to Acura. The Meteor Silver is an exquisite color. Too bad that isn't offered on the TL. I checked out the Quartz interior. In the TSX it has the metal trim, however, IMHO the wood would look fine in the Quartz. If anyone gets a confirm on the wood or metal in the Quartz please post. By the way is the wood real?
Well if you check out a Sagebrush MDX, the Quartz interior is trimmed by wood on the center console area of the dash.
I don't think it's REALLY REAL wood, no.
07-30-2003, 08:47 AM
#1737
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Originally posted by 99TL
.....No body in Japan has even heard of Acura (yes, it doesn't exist in Japan, but Lexus doesn't either), because the brand is just not at the same level as Lexus. Period. I have even emailed my friends in Japan asking them what they know about the Acura and Lexus brands, and all of them replied with something like "Isn't Acura just an upscale Honda? Lexus is a much higher class brand and we are going to have that brand in Japan soon."
.....No body in Japan has even heard of Acura (yes, it doesn't exist in Japan, but Lexus doesn't either), because the brand is just not at the same level as Lexus. Period. I have even emailed my friends in Japan asking them what they know about the Acura and Lexus brands, and all of them replied with something like "Isn't Acura just an upscale Honda? Lexus is a much higher class brand and we are going to have that brand in Japan soon."
No really. Think about it for a second....
Besides the fact that Lexus *is* "just an upscale Toyota". Japan already has most (if not all) of the Lexus cars in Japan (in Toyota guise). So when Toyota switches the "T"s on those cars to "L"s, there's supposed to be some huge jump in perception of quality and luxury? How can Lexus be a "higher class brand" if the Lexus RX330 = Toyota Harrier, etc.?
Allow me to make an analogy: Let's say Chevrolet and Ford sell their trucks under a different make name in other countries (call them ChevyTruck and FordTruck for the sake of argument). Now, let's say Chevy plans to bring the ChevyTruck name to the US (ChevyTruck Silverado, ChevyTruck S-10, etc.). Keep in mind that these same truck have been selling for years in America as Chevrolets (ChevyTruck Silverado is the same vehicle as a Chevrolet Silverado). Only the badge/name is different (just like Honda NSX = Acura NSX). If someone from another country e-mailed you and asked you what you know about FordTruck and ChevyTruck, would you respond with something like "Isn't FordTruck just the trucks that Ford makes?" and "ChevyTruck is a much better manufacturer of trucks and we'll have them in the US soon". I don't think so. Ridiculous.
How can Lexus be a "higher class brand" when to the Japanese, all the same cars existed, but were Toyotas last year? I don't buy that story. I'm gonna call BS. Sorry.
And if it's NOT BS, Toyota has pulled a hell of a marketing job (nothing short of brainwashing) on the Japanese public.
07-30-2003, 10:06 AM
#1739
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Originally posted by Iceman
I agree that 18's will look better on this car. I dunno about 19's though -- I will have to take another look at the concept car I guess.
I agree that 18's will look better on this car. I dunno about 19's though -- I will have to take another look at the concept car I guess.
).
07-30-2003, 11:41 AM
#1740
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Originally posted by ClutchPerformer
Ok, Besides the fact that Lexus *is* "just an upscale Toyota". Japan already has most (if not all) of the Lexus cars in Japan (in Toyota guise). So when Toyota switches the "T"s on those cars to "L"s, there's supposed to be some huge jump in perception of quality and luxury? How can Lexus be a "higher class brand" if the Lexus RX330 = Toyota Harrier, etc.?
How can Lexus be a "higher class brand" when to the Japanese, all the same cars existed, but were Toyotas last year? I don't buy that story. I'm gonna call BS. Sorry.
And if it's NOT BS, Toyota has pulled a hell of a marketing job (nothing short of brainwashing) on the Japanese public.
Ok, Besides the fact that Lexus *is* "just an upscale Toyota". Japan already has most (if not all) of the Lexus cars in Japan (in Toyota guise). So when Toyota switches the "T"s on those cars to "L"s, there's supposed to be some huge jump in perception of quality and luxury? How can Lexus be a "higher class brand" if the Lexus RX330 = Toyota Harrier, etc.?
How can Lexus be a "higher class brand" when to the Japanese, all the same cars existed, but were Toyotas last year? I don't buy that story. I'm gonna call BS. Sorry.
And if it's NOT BS, Toyota has pulled a hell of a marketing job (nothing short of brainwashing) on the Japanese public.
Actually, Toyota does have plans to introduce Lexus as a brand in Japan....
Toyota to Introduce Lexus Brand and Revise Sales Network in Japan
Tokyo, Japan - TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION (TMC) announced a new product and distribution strategy that outlines the introduction of the Lexus brand to Japan and the reorganization of TMC's Japanese-market Toyota-brand sales channels into four channels from the current five.
This new product and distribution strategy is aimed at allowing TMC to adequately respond to future changes in consumer values and in the structure of Japan's highly competitive automobile market.
Specifically, the new strategy entails:
the establishment in Japan of the Lexus brand-apart from the Toyota brand-as a "global premium brand for the 21st century"
the merging of the Netz and Vista sales channels to form a new Netz channel capable of addressing the desires of the growing segment of "new value" consumers, while keeping in mind the needs of current customers
the reinforcement of the identities of the Toyota, Toyopet and Corolla sales channels and a review of their product lineups
In recent years, new consumer values that increasingly emphasize a "sense of the best", as well as individuality, have led to vast changes in the automobile market. These changes represent a trend that is advancing on a global scale, intensifying competition among the world's automakers in how well they can respond to evolving consumer demand.
Japan, in particular, is thought to be at the forefront of such evolution due to its low birthrate, rapidly aging society and other factors, which are said to be bringing on market-structure changes at a pace greater than that in any other industrially developed nation. This means that response to such changes in Japan is becoming viewed as an important factor in terms of being globally competitive.
Under its new product and distribution strategy, TMC plans to put full effort into creating a global premium brand by introducing to the Japanese market the Lexus brand, which is already well established in the United States. Additionally, it intends to proactively respond to market changes by restructuring its domestic sales network-such as through establishing a new Netz channel and other measures-into one with a more future-looking stance.
Together with its "the customer always comes first" policy, TMC intends to use the new strategy to steadily maintain a non-minivehicle market share of more than 40% and to secure an even greater market share in the mid to long term.
Tokyo, Japan - TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION (TMC) announced a new product and distribution strategy that outlines the introduction of the Lexus brand to Japan and the reorganization of TMC's Japanese-market Toyota-brand sales channels into four channels from the current five.
This new product and distribution strategy is aimed at allowing TMC to adequately respond to future changes in consumer values and in the structure of Japan's highly competitive automobile market.
Specifically, the new strategy entails:
the establishment in Japan of the Lexus brand-apart from the Toyota brand-as a "global premium brand for the 21st century"
the merging of the Netz and Vista sales channels to form a new Netz channel capable of addressing the desires of the growing segment of "new value" consumers, while keeping in mind the needs of current customers
the reinforcement of the identities of the Toyota, Toyopet and Corolla sales channels and a review of their product lineups
In recent years, new consumer values that increasingly emphasize a "sense of the best", as well as individuality, have led to vast changes in the automobile market. These changes represent a trend that is advancing on a global scale, intensifying competition among the world's automakers in how well they can respond to evolving consumer demand.
Japan, in particular, is thought to be at the forefront of such evolution due to its low birthrate, rapidly aging society and other factors, which are said to be bringing on market-structure changes at a pace greater than that in any other industrially developed nation. This means that response to such changes in Japan is becoming viewed as an important factor in terms of being globally competitive.
Under its new product and distribution strategy, TMC plans to put full effort into creating a global premium brand by introducing to the Japanese market the Lexus brand, which is already well established in the United States. Additionally, it intends to proactively respond to market changes by restructuring its domestic sales network-such as through establishing a new Netz channel and other measures-into one with a more future-looking stance.
Together with its "the customer always comes first" policy, TMC intends to use the new strategy to steadily maintain a non-minivehicle market share of more than 40% and to secure an even greater market share in the mid to long term.
07-30-2003, 12:21 PM
#1741
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Speaking of brainwashing, I think no company has done a better job than Honda - otherwise, why are people still blindly buying Hondas/Acuras when their quality (and reliability) has been reduced so much? FYI, I already know two people who bought 01 Civics and had the same problem - the cars stalled unexpectedly (automatic transmission) - the dealers couldn't fixed them and they just replaced the cars with new ones for the owners! Remember, high quality and reliability are what made Hondas/Acuras famous.
ClutchPerformer: think/believe whatever you like. I was simply passing on the email responses I got from my friends in Japan.
Not sure if you have been to Japan, but if you have, you should know that people in Japan, especially the younger generations, praise the Western (esp. American) societies very much. They love rap music (actually all western music - if you've been to the HMVs in Tokyo, you'll know what I mean), McDonald's, Italian food (as shown by the huge number of Italian restaurants in Tokyo). The only exception is probably American cars - it's probably because most American cars are too big, and they're very expensive (because they're imports). But I've seen some really nice American trucks/SUVs (I believe they're Chevys actually) in Japan - they're all souped up and everything - I believe the owners of those things must have spent a fortune modifying them - which is not surprising - if they can afford an American truck/SUV, I'm sure they can afford to mod it big time.
Regarding your analogy about FordTruck and ChevyTruck - it's a totally different scenario - are Americans (or even Canadians) really into other cultures (just like the Japanese are into Western cultures)? I don't think so. Therefore, Americans probably won't care about the what the same truck is called in other countries, and that's why you wouldn't care if Chevy renames its truck to ChevyTruck.
Also, I just want to point out that my friends in Japan never said "Lexus is a better manufacturer of cars than Toyota". Please read my message carefully. They all know that Lexus is made by Toyota. They were just saying that Lexus is a higher class brand than Toyota, which is true, even in America. There are things (esp. prestige) associated with the Lexus brand that the Toyota brand doesn't have.
Again, remember that the Lexus brand was originally designed for the US - Luxury EXperiment for the US, so if you're a person from Japan, and want to be "closer" to the American culture, what should you do? Buy an American truck? No, it's too expensive and too big for the narrow Japanese roads, or, buy the Lexus brand?
Anyway, to sum it up - since North America has the Lexus brand, I'm not surprised that people in Japan would want to have that brand in Japan too, just like in America.
Also, I believe Toyota is going to release a new Aristo (GS330/430), possibly with AWD, as well as a new Celsior (LS430), so I believe they're going to start with those two cars as "Lexus". Then they'll probably phase in the rest of the North Amercian Lexus line as Lexus as the models are updated. Since the Harrier (RX330) was just updated, they may either change the name for this SUV to Lexus with a facelift in a few years, or may just rebadge the current model and add extra luxury equipment that's not available in other Toyota models to differentiate it.
ClutchPerformer: think/believe whatever you like. I was simply passing on the email responses I got from my friends in Japan.
Not sure if you have been to Japan, but if you have, you should know that people in Japan, especially the younger generations, praise the Western (esp. American) societies very much. They love rap music (actually all western music - if you've been to the HMVs in Tokyo, you'll know what I mean), McDonald's, Italian food (as shown by the huge number of Italian restaurants in Tokyo). The only exception is probably American cars - it's probably because most American cars are too big, and they're very expensive (because they're imports). But I've seen some really nice American trucks/SUVs (I believe they're Chevys actually) in Japan - they're all souped up and everything - I believe the owners of those things must have spent a fortune modifying them - which is not surprising - if they can afford an American truck/SUV, I'm sure they can afford to mod it big time.
Regarding your analogy about FordTruck and ChevyTruck - it's a totally different scenario - are Americans (or even Canadians) really into other cultures (just like the Japanese are into Western cultures)? I don't think so. Therefore, Americans probably won't care about the what the same truck is called in other countries, and that's why you wouldn't care if Chevy renames its truck to ChevyTruck.
Also, I just want to point out that my friends in Japan never said "Lexus is a better manufacturer of cars than Toyota". Please read my message carefully. They all know that Lexus is made by Toyota. They were just saying that Lexus is a higher class brand than Toyota, which is true, even in America. There are things (esp. prestige) associated with the Lexus brand that the Toyota brand doesn't have.
Again, remember that the Lexus brand was originally designed for the US - Luxury EXperiment for the US, so if you're a person from Japan, and want to be "closer" to the American culture, what should you do? Buy an American truck? No, it's too expensive and too big for the narrow Japanese roads, or, buy the Lexus brand?
Anyway, to sum it up - since North America has the Lexus brand, I'm not surprised that people in Japan would want to have that brand in Japan too, just like in America.
Also, I believe Toyota is going to release a new Aristo (GS330/430), possibly with AWD, as well as a new Celsior (LS430), so I believe they're going to start with those two cars as "Lexus". Then they'll probably phase in the rest of the North Amercian Lexus line as Lexus as the models are updated. Since the Harrier (RX330) was just updated, they may either change the name for this SUV to Lexus with a facelift in a few years, or may just rebadge the current model and add extra luxury equipment that's not available in other Toyota models to differentiate it.
Originally posted by ClutchPerformer
Ok, sorry for butting in on you guys' discussion, but do you realize that this is ridiculous?
No really. Think about it for a second....
Besides the fact that Lexus *is* "just an upscale Toyota". Japan already has most (if not all) of the Lexus cars in Japan (in Toyota guise). So when Toyota switches the "T"s on those cars to "L"s, there's supposed to be some huge jump in perception of quality and luxury? How can Lexus be a "higher class brand" if the Lexus RX330 = Toyota Harrier, etc.?
Allow me to make an analogy: Let's say Chevrolet and Ford sell their trucks under a different make name in other countries (call them ChevyTruck and FordTruck for the sake of argument). Now, let's say Chevy plans to bring the ChevyTruck name to the US (ChevyTruck Silverado, ChevyTruck S-10, etc.). Keep in mind that these same truck have been selling for years in America as Chevrolets (ChevyTruck Silverado is the same vehicle as a Chevrolet Silverado). Only the badge/name is different (just like Honda NSX = Acura NSX). If someone from another country e-mailed you and asked you what you know about FordTruck and ChevyTruck, would you respond with something like "Isn't FordTruck just the trucks that Ford makes?" and "ChevyTruck is a much better manufacturer of trucks and we'll have them in the US soon". I don't think so. Ridiculous.
How can Lexus be a "higher class brand" when to the Japanese, all the same cars existed, but were Toyotas last year? I don't buy that story. I'm gonna call BS. Sorry.
And if it's NOT BS, Toyota has pulled a hell of a marketing job (nothing short of brainwashing) on the Japanese public.
Ok, sorry for butting in on you guys' discussion, but do you realize that this is ridiculous?
No really. Think about it for a second....
Besides the fact that Lexus *is* "just an upscale Toyota". Japan already has most (if not all) of the Lexus cars in Japan (in Toyota guise). So when Toyota switches the "T"s on those cars to "L"s, there's supposed to be some huge jump in perception of quality and luxury? How can Lexus be a "higher class brand" if the Lexus RX330 = Toyota Harrier, etc.?
Allow me to make an analogy: Let's say Chevrolet and Ford sell their trucks under a different make name in other countries (call them ChevyTruck and FordTruck for the sake of argument). Now, let's say Chevy plans to bring the ChevyTruck name to the US (ChevyTruck Silverado, ChevyTruck S-10, etc.). Keep in mind that these same truck have been selling for years in America as Chevrolets (ChevyTruck Silverado is the same vehicle as a Chevrolet Silverado). Only the badge/name is different (just like Honda NSX = Acura NSX). If someone from another country e-mailed you and asked you what you know about FordTruck and ChevyTruck, would you respond with something like "Isn't FordTruck just the trucks that Ford makes?" and "ChevyTruck is a much better manufacturer of trucks and we'll have them in the US soon". I don't think so. Ridiculous.
How can Lexus be a "higher class brand" when to the Japanese, all the same cars existed, but were Toyotas last year? I don't buy that story. I'm gonna call BS. Sorry.
And if it's NOT BS, Toyota has pulled a hell of a marketing job (nothing short of brainwashing) on the Japanese public.
07-30-2003, 12:48 PM
#1742
yawn
Please take this to PM. We're here to discuss the 04 TL, not to read your theories on Honda brainwashing and all the other broad and inaccurate generalizations that you're bringing up.
07-30-2003, 12:52 PM
#1743
Suzuka Master
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Originally posted by 99TL
Regarding your analogy about FordTruck and ChevyTruck - it's a totally different scenario - are Americans (or even Canadians) really into other cultures (just like the Japanese are into Western cultures)? I don't think so. Therefore, Americans probably won't care about the what the same truck is called in other countries, and that's why you wouldn't care if Chevy renames its truck to ChevyTruck.
Regarding your analogy about FordTruck and ChevyTruck - it's a totally different scenario - are Americans (or even Canadians) really into other cultures (just like the Japanese are into Western cultures)? I don't think so. Therefore, Americans probably won't care about the what the same truck is called in other countries, and that's why you wouldn't care if Chevy renames its truck to ChevyTruck.
Also, I just want to point out that my friends in Japan never said "Lexus is a better manufacturer of cars than Toyota". Please read my message carefully. They all know that Lexus is made by Toyota. They were just saying that Lexus is a higher class brand than Toyota, which is true, even in America. There are things (esp. prestige) associated with the Lexus brand that the Toyota brand doesn't have.
Again, remember that the Lexus brand was originally designed for the US - Luxury EXperiment for the US, so if you're a person from Japan, and want to be "closer" to the American culture, what should you do? Buy an American truck? No, it's too expensive and too big for the narrow Japanese roads, or, buy the Lexus brand?
Anyway, to sum it up - since North America has the Lexus brand, I'm not surprised that people in Japan would want to have that brand in Japan too, just like in America.
......Since the Harrier (RX330) was just updated, they may either change the name for this SUV to Lexus with a facelift in a few years, or may just rebadge the current model and add extra luxury equipment that's not available in other Toyota models to differentiate it.
07-30-2003, 12:52 PM
#1744
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Originally posted by EmuMessenger
Well put Jason, but at least for me, I was/am really hoping for the ventilated seats and they can be had in the 35-40 price range in the Saab 9-5, the Ford Explorer and the 350z convertible. Air conditioned seats are really a great feature in the summer!
Personally, I do not care about the adaptive cruise control, but parking assist is a great feature and available on many cars and mini-vans in the same price range.
The other things like memory seats and automatic tilt-down mirrors are already present and we shouldn't have to worry about losing them.
Long story short, I would easily sacrifice the 5.1 stereo to have the ventilated seats. Bluetooth is a great feature and I look forward to it being in the TL.
Bottom line, we are all entitled to our own opinion, I am keeping my fingers crossed for the ventilated seats. It makes driving a car that has been sitting in the 100 degree sun more tolerable.
Well put Jason, but at least for me, I was/am really hoping for the ventilated seats and they can be had in the 35-40 price range in the Saab 9-5, the Ford Explorer and the 350z convertible. Air conditioned seats are really a great feature in the summer!
Personally, I do not care about the adaptive cruise control, but parking assist is a great feature and available on many cars and mini-vans in the same price range.
The other things like memory seats and automatic tilt-down mirrors are already present and we shouldn't have to worry about losing them.
Long story short, I would easily sacrifice the 5.1 stereo to have the ventilated seats. Bluetooth is a great feature and I look forward to it being in the TL.
Bottom line, we are all entitled to our own opinion, I am keeping my fingers crossed for the ventilated seats. It makes driving a car that has been sitting in the 100 degree sun more tolerable.
'99 - New body style
'00 - New 5spd Auto transmission, side air bags, DVD-based Nav
'01 - Standard floor mats and emergency trunk release
'02 - restyled front end, memory seat, Type-S model, VSA, in-dash changer (and more...just too lazy to type it all)
'03 - Nav system with OnStar
Just imagine how much the'04 TL would cost if it going to have the ventilated seats, adaptive cruise control, power tilt-telescope wheel, AWD, power rear shade, and the list goes on.... We'd be looking at potentially a 35K-36K base and we would be screaming "there is NO WAY I'm going to pay that much for a TL with no NAV!!!
Believe me, I want these features too, especially ventilated seats in TEXAS!!! But it all revolves around developing a TL that appeals to the masses of sport/luxury buyers and generates the most revenue. This is the car that puts bread on Acura's table and Acura doesn't want to mess that up.
I'm done for now....
07-30-2003, 12:57 PM
#1745
Suzuka Master
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Originally posted by VtecMW
Actually, Toyota does have plans to introduce Lexus as a brand in Japan....
Actually, Toyota does have plans to introduce Lexus as a brand in Japan....
"Isn't Acura just an upscale Honda? :thumbsdn:"
versus
"Lexus is a higher class brand! We must have Lexus to be like America!
"If you don't see the flaw in that logic, I won't argue about this anymore.
Sorry for messing up your TL thread, Phile.
07-30-2003, 01:06 PM
#1746
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Yes, this should be discussed in PM. Sorry. But I just want to point out that my generalizations are not inaccurate.
Let's get back on topic: what else is there to talk about the new TL? We already know that its quality will be roughly the same as the current TL - i.e. overall okay, but not great. There is no point in discussing the looks - it's very subjective. Engine? Well, we probably won't hear anything solid until a few weeks before the car is released. One thing I don't understand is why people are so concerned about the tires/size of the rims? To me, rims are more for looks - yes, if you get ultra light rims, they're for performance too (but I think most stock rims are quite heavy, so stock rims are not really for performance). So, if rims are for looks, wouldn't you want to buy yourself a nice set of aftermarket rims to make your car stand out?
Most stock tires are chosen because of their favourable price/performance ratio (and whatever special deals that Honda can get). If you are a performance enthusiast, you'll probably want to replace the tires (and the rims) the moment you drive the car off the dealer lot.
Features: well, as reflected by most responses on this forum, people are willing to buy the new TL no matter what, because it's the coolest looking Acura sedan so far. So, even if the new TL doesn't have adaptive cruise control, power rear sunshade, ventilated seats, autoleveling bi-xenon headlights, or any features that you guys fancy, it doesn't really matter. So why are we even discussing features? Honda knows it damn well that its blind fans are going to buy whatever it dishes out. So, all Honda has to do is make the car look "cool" with a decent (but not adequate) feature list, and its fans will buy.
Let's get back on topic: what else is there to talk about the new TL? We already know that its quality will be roughly the same as the current TL - i.e. overall okay, but not great. There is no point in discussing the looks - it's very subjective. Engine? Well, we probably won't hear anything solid until a few weeks before the car is released. One thing I don't understand is why people are so concerned about the tires/size of the rims? To me, rims are more for looks - yes, if you get ultra light rims, they're for performance too (but I think most stock rims are quite heavy, so stock rims are not really for performance). So, if rims are for looks, wouldn't you want to buy yourself a nice set of aftermarket rims to make your car stand out?
Most stock tires are chosen because of their favourable price/performance ratio (and whatever special deals that Honda can get). If you are a performance enthusiast, you'll probably want to replace the tires (and the rims) the moment you drive the car off the dealer lot.
Features: well, as reflected by most responses on this forum, people are willing to buy the new TL no matter what, because it's the coolest looking Acura sedan so far. So, even if the new TL doesn't have adaptive cruise control, power rear sunshade, ventilated seats, autoleveling bi-xenon headlights, or any features that you guys fancy, it doesn't really matter. So why are we even discussing features? Honda knows it damn well that its blind fans are going to buy whatever it dishes out. So, all Honda has to do is make the car look "cool" with a decent (but not adequate) feature list, and its fans will buy.
07-30-2003, 01:24 PM
#1747
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Sorry,
Just a quick, short reply:
ClutchPerformer - you seem to underestimate the power of a brand in the consumer market. People in the know, like yourself, can easily see through the marketing campaign/gimmick dished out by companies. But for the general public consumers, it's not so easy. Just look at the Pontiac Vibe and the Toyota Matrix - essentially the same car - but people still believe the Matrix will have a better reliability and resale value than the Pontiac Vibe, simply because the Matrix is a Toyota, and the Vibe is a Pontiac.
Again, I (or my friends) never said a Toyota car is better if it's badged as a Lexus. A Lexus badge simply means the car will have more prestige (and higher class as my friends in Japan called it). I believe you're confusing "luxury" with "prestige". Leather doesn't make a car more prestigous. Likewise, cloth interior doesn't make a car less prestigous. "Prestige" is linked to the brand. Luxury is what you actually get as equipment in the car (e.g. leather). FYI, there are BMWs with cloth interiors, are you saying that BMWs with cloth interiors are not prestige cars?
And you've brought up a good point - why won't people in Japan want the Acura brand? 1) the Acura brand is not known anywhere else except North America and Hong Kong (and a few Asian countries I believe), so the brand is not as globally known and powerful as Lexus. 2) the Acura brand is not as prestigous as the Lexus brand, which is exactly what I've been trying to say in all my replies. Thanks for helping me prove my point!
Just a quick, short reply:
ClutchPerformer - you seem to underestimate the power of a brand in the consumer market. People in the know, like yourself, can easily see through the marketing campaign/gimmick dished out by companies. But for the general public consumers, it's not so easy. Just look at the Pontiac Vibe and the Toyota Matrix - essentially the same car - but people still believe the Matrix will have a better reliability and resale value than the Pontiac Vibe, simply because the Matrix is a Toyota, and the Vibe is a Pontiac.
Again, I (or my friends) never said a Toyota car is better if it's badged as a Lexus. A Lexus badge simply means the car will have more prestige (and higher class as my friends in Japan called it). I believe you're confusing "luxury" with "prestige". Leather doesn't make a car more prestigous. Likewise, cloth interior doesn't make a car less prestigous. "Prestige" is linked to the brand. Luxury is what you actually get as equipment in the car (e.g. leather). FYI, there are BMWs with cloth interiors, are you saying that BMWs with cloth interiors are not prestige cars?
And you've brought up a good point - why won't people in Japan want the Acura brand? 1) the Acura brand is not known anywhere else except North America and Hong Kong (and a few Asian countries I believe), so the brand is not as globally known and powerful as Lexus. 2) the Acura brand is not as prestigous as the Lexus brand, which is exactly what I've been trying to say in all my replies. Thanks for helping me prove my point!
Originally posted by ClutchPerformer
That wasn't my point. The point was that a ChevyTruck (Lexus) badged Silverado (RX330, etc.) is not fundamentally better than a Chevrolet (Toyota) badged Silverado (Harrier, etc.).
This doesn't make sense because they are THE SAME CARS. Does the "Lexus RX330" have more presige than the "Toyota Harrier"? No. Does the "Lexus LS430" have more prestige than the "Toyota Celsior"? No. Is the "Lexus GS430" have more prestige than the "Toyota Aristo"? No. It's the SAME CAR. Do you understand what I'm saying? These cars are already Lexuses! (Lexi?)
That's fine, but they still shouldn't think that they're getting a "better" vehicle than what they had before. It's not.
So why wouldn't they want the Acura brand?
Rebadge, eh? Does the rebadging give it the extra prestige? Or is it the leather (which is already there)? Doesn't this vehicle already have luxury equipment? I don't get it.
That wasn't my point. The point was that a ChevyTruck (Lexus) badged Silverado (RX330, etc.) is not fundamentally better than a Chevrolet (Toyota) badged Silverado (Harrier, etc.).
This doesn't make sense because they are THE SAME CARS. Does the "Lexus RX330" have more presige than the "Toyota Harrier"? No. Does the "Lexus LS430" have more prestige than the "Toyota Celsior"? No. Is the "Lexus GS430" have more prestige than the "Toyota Aristo"? No. It's the SAME CAR. Do you understand what I'm saying? These cars are already Lexuses! (Lexi?)
That's fine, but they still shouldn't think that they're getting a "better" vehicle than what they had before. It's not.
So why wouldn't they want the Acura brand?
Rebadge, eh? Does the rebadging give it the extra prestige? Or is it the leather (which is already there)? Doesn't this vehicle already have luxury equipment? I don't get it.
07-30-2003, 02:12 PM
#1748
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This discussion regarding Lexus, BMW, Acura etc began with the discussion on feature lists of the new '04TL, or more specifically, the lack of certain features on the new '04TL. Remember, 5-6 months ago, people (probably including almost everyone on this board) was wondering if the new TL would have AWD with or without IMA, 300 HP or more, adaptive cruise control, etc. If my memory serves me correctly, AWD and HP were the two most discussed unknown features of the new car. The fact that the new TL does not have those features has sparked some more debate of which going upscale or leaving things alone has been one of the subsets. That's what discussion boards are about.
This also brings up a much earlier point I made about the car. Honda has decided to take the silent approach about releasing details. I've heard this was to preserve sales of the existing '03 TLs. I think this is a mistake. There should be much more advertisement and marketing done for this car at this time. I will argue that if you max out '03 TL sales and push some buyers into the TSX, then you may actually hurt out-of-the-gate sales of the new '04 TL, and this new TL is critically important to the business plans of the Acura division. This new TL is going to be "the TL" for the next 5-7 years. Why risk these sales for the sake of an obsolete model that is going out of production? It also causes so much speculation, that the final product may cause some disappointment.
Now that the new '04 TL does not have a full set of "wish list" feature sets, I truly wonder what the new RL will look like. I've heard arguments that the "wish list" features should be on the flagship models, i.e., the RL. Well Honda really has to pull through then on the RL, and if it doesn't, it looks like Honda really doesn't want to compete, and I mean head-on, with the established luxury manufacturers.
This also brings up a much earlier point I made about the car. Honda has decided to take the silent approach about releasing details. I've heard this was to preserve sales of the existing '03 TLs. I think this is a mistake. There should be much more advertisement and marketing done for this car at this time. I will argue that if you max out '03 TL sales and push some buyers into the TSX, then you may actually hurt out-of-the-gate sales of the new '04 TL, and this new TL is critically important to the business plans of the Acura division. This new TL is going to be "the TL" for the next 5-7 years. Why risk these sales for the sake of an obsolete model that is going out of production? It also causes so much speculation, that the final product may cause some disappointment.
Now that the new '04 TL does not have a full set of "wish list" feature sets, I truly wonder what the new RL will look like. I've heard arguments that the "wish list" features should be on the flagship models, i.e., the RL. Well Honda really has to pull through then on the RL, and if it doesn't, it looks like Honda really doesn't want to compete, and I mean head-on, with the established luxury manufacturers.
07-30-2003, 04:50 PM
#1753
Originally posted by justinjsw
This is official...the 04TL will have 270HP. Confirmed.
04MDX will have 265HP. Confirmed.
This is official...the 04TL will have 270HP. Confirmed.
04MDX will have 265HP. Confirmed.
) We are like drug addicts. Do you know what kind of torque the engine will put out and at what RPM? How many liters is the engine?
07-30-2003, 04:54 PM
#1755
If the TL disappoint you two so bad...please feel free to go buy something else. Really enough of this back and forth. Lexus is so much better buy a lexus. MB, bimmer whatever. How in the world are you going to milk a sub 35K car and want 50K worth of options. Please!
07-30-2003, 04:56 PM
#1756
Originally posted by RJC RSX
is it really more upwards of 280 as some insiders on TOV are saying?
is it really more upwards of 280 as some insiders on TOV are saying?
07-30-2003, 04:58 PM
#1757
Originally posted by jwaters943
Thanks again for the hookup Justin! I have a couple questions (doesn't it seem like we always have more questions anytime you give us more info? ) We are like drug addicts.
Do you know what kind of torque the engine will put out and at what RPM? How many liters is the engine?
Thanks again for the hookup Justin! I have a couple questions (doesn't it seem like we always have more questions anytime you give us more info?
) We are like drug addicts. Do you know what kind of torque the engine will put out and at what RPM? How many liters is the engine?
All it said was the 04TL will come with a 270HP V6 VTEC. That's it. And it said the MDX will have 265HP. That's it.
07-30-2003, 05:04 PM
#1758
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Originally posted by justinjsw
If the TL disappoint you two so bad...please feel free to go buy something else. Really enough of this back and forth. Lexus is so much better buy a lexus. MB, bimmer whatever. How in the world are you going to milk a sub 35K car and want 50K worth of options. Please!
If the TL disappoint you two so bad...please feel free to go buy something else. Really enough of this back and forth. Lexus is so much better buy a lexus. MB, bimmer whatever. How in the world are you going to milk a sub 35K car and want 50K worth of options. Please!
07-30-2003, 05:08 PM
#1759
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Originally posted by justinjsw
Read my lips it's 270HP ...Period! I just read it. 270HP not 271 not 272...it's 270.
Read my lips it's 270HP ...Period! I just read it. 270HP not 271 not 272...it's 270.
It's VTEC and not i-VTEC??