VTEC Racer

When you do a search for "rattle" in the 4G TL forum you get 46 hits. When you do the same thing in the 3G forum, you get 500 (and thats because Acurazine limits you to 500 threads).

The 4G is not a perfect car but it has less rattles than the 3G by far. Many of the rattle posts about the 4G are double/triple posts of the same rattle just by different people. The same can be said about the 3G but there are many more different rattles that people are posting about.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I havent reread my post, but wasn't that compared to the 3rd gen bixenons??

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I know exactly what they are. I have the clear lense projectors with the seperate shield. When they switched to the fresnel lenses, the lense holder and the shield became one piece.

Shift_Acura

No rattles on the Infiniti or Maxima forums though rite

csmeance

no, they have issues with buttons falling into the dash and threads detailing how to fish them out quickly, like the TCS button with Hammond on Top Gear and the 350z

smarty666

No there not, your just making excuses. That is not going to help Acura by any means. It remains an issue, something my two local Acura dealers confirmed to me about the 4G. Plus, all those hits in the 3G section were not all rattle related just grouped into that search parameter, which you failed to mention, and were not rattle related. Plus, the 3G has almost 8 years worth of time on market compared to the 3 years the 4G has been here so I would expect more posts in the 3G about it at this point in time. By the way, there were multiple posts by the same people in the 3G section as well.

Regardless, for the price and segment the TL is in, there should not be that many discussions devoted to rattles and/or noises in the car. I don't hear Infiniti, Audi, and BMW owners complaining about this in the quantities I hear TL owners do.

What puzzles me is, why it is such an issue with the TL and not the TSX and RL? Only thing I can think of is those two are made in Japan and are put together better over there then the TL is here in Ohio. Thats been my experience after the numerous TSX loaners I've driven and the 3G and 4G TLs I have been in.

smarty666

I didn't say they were not any, but not in the quantities that the TL threads have, nor did I bring those vehicles up and don't know what they have to do with this conversation about the TL . Interesting why you brought those vehicles up specifically, trying to make it personal I see. Great way to solve the problem is by not admitting there is one and trying to shift the topic to other vehicles .

Legend2TL

http://books.google.com/books?id=Q5Q...page&q&f=false

If you have a few minutes, read the book linked above starting with the last paragraph on page 90. It is about Alex Mair (GM exec who also created the Z28) who was the alarmist at GM in the early 80's, he led the reverse engineering group at GM who disaasembled competitor's products. Long before Bob Lutz he was a fan of Honda's engineering. This part of book gets into the connecting rods on the early 80's Honda Civic and how they are smaller, lighter and better matched compared to the Chevy Cavalar inline 4 cylinder. Starting from this fundamendal component, everything else on the GM motor becomes larger and in the end a lesser product.

VTEC Racer

Dude, you have a history of being anti-4G on here. I've always said buyers remorse and I continue to do so.

All you have to do is go to the problem section of each car and type in "rattle". For the 4G, you get 46 hits. For the 3G, you get 500 (and that's only because Acurazine limits you to 500 threads). How is that making excuses? You're the one here making excuses (read your entire post!) Every excuse you said about the 3G can apply to the 4G also. Just get over it and accept the fact that the 4G is a better built car.

Do you hang out on Infiniti, Audi, and BMW forums as often as you do here to listen to their complain about rattles? An Infiniti with no rattles? lol that MUST be a joke.

There are a few threads in the 4G forum with 3G owners asking if the 4G has as many rattles as their cars, check it out.

smarty666

Dude, you've been consistently anti-Infiniti and any other make other than Acura. Also, I'm sick of people like you who can't let anyone say anything negative about the TL or Acura without trying to make it personal and act as if Acura is perfect and can do no wrong. I had an 06 TL with not one rattle and a 08 TL that has been a rattle hell hole so give it a rest.

As I said before which you seem to keep missing, you keep saying the total hits that come up when you type that search word in, but as I pointed out, especially with the 3G section, a lot of those posts are not related to a rattle at all and some other completely different issue that just so happened to come up. The search function isn't 100% accurate you know? How is that saying its an excuse? It's not, I'm just pointing the flaws out in your post hit comparison.

I wasn't making this out to be 4G vs 3G issue. The only one that is doing that is you. I'm stating its still an issue for the 4G TL like it was for the 3G and 2G and it needs to be addressed. Just get over it that the 4G TL is not as well built as you think it is and is not magically superior. If it was few to no people should be reporting or complaining about rattles and noises in the car when its being driven. Its an area that still needs some work to improve it. People should not have to be taking a $40k automobile in to have things ripped apart or foam added to try and get noises to stop. Saying that there are far fewer complaints and the car is better built is exactly what is called making excuses.

Unlike you, I belong to other make forums and I can accurately compare the number of people and threads that post about rattle issues and Infiniti, Audi, and BMW have far fewer numbers then the TL threads here do. If you tried to enlighten yourself about other makes other than Acura you'd be able to see that. I wasn't even making it an Acura thing either, just a TL thing, since the TSX has very few rattle complaints compared to the TL. Maybe you should just accept the fact that the Japanese are better at assembling things and the 2G TSX is a better built car on the whole then the 4G TL.

Ha, the 4G is a better built car but still has people complain about rattle issues, that must be a joke!

VTEC Racer

How have I been anti-Infiniti? I've never said anything about Infiniti that wasn't the truth. If the truth is offensive to you, don't take that as me being anti-Infiniti.

Okay, just like the search isn't 100% accurate in the 3G forum, the same goes for the 4G. So it is less than 46 posts about rattles for the 4G? We don't know how many it is for the 3G because of the 500 post limit.

You keep stating that the 4G rattles are no better than the 3G as if it is a fact. The posts, owners, REAL-WORLD experiences show the 4G to have much better build quality than the 3G. I can't even count the number of times a 3G owner has commented on the superior build-quality of the TL when they bring in their 3G's for service and get a 4G loaner.

I am part of several forums actually and I'm under the same username. Nothing to hide here. I'm very well informed about other brands. I don't own an Acura, let alone a Honda. It's ironic that I don't see you in a forum that you should be in all the time though. Are you using different usernames for each forum?

You can say whatever you want, be in denial for as long as you need to be, but the 4G is a better built car. You would be very hard pressed to find a 4G owner who was a previous 3G owner that would say otherwise. These are people with real world experience with both cars, not you who is basing your assumptions off of internet posts.

fsttyms1

Knock it off guys.

fsttyms1

I just wish honda's type-s line was like Caddys V line in terms of HP differences between the regular and v version.

smarty666

Yeah, thats not going to happen by any means, but you can always wish I guess!

smarty666

That just proves my point even further. Commenting on vehicles you don't even own or ever have. That makes no sense whatsoever. I only post comments on the forums for the makes and vehicles I have or have had, not ones that I have no personal experience ever owning. I know plenty of 3G posters who said the exact opposite of what your saying and instead kept there 3G TL so there. If the car is built better, than there should be no rattles period, unless the car is like 10 years old. All I've said is that Acura needs to improve upon still.

No, I use the same name on all the forums I belong to so that tell me your not on the Nissan or Infiniti ones I belong to since I've never seen you name on a post there. It's a shame that when someone has a criticism of an Acura product or something that could be improved upon that other makes have to be brought up that were not even apart of the original discussion to try to divert attention away from Acura.

By the way, I've given many compliments and kudos to the 4G interior on here, its mostly the size and outside of the car I dislike.

YetiTL

Would you buy a 70k$USD Acura TL if it was available, even with a s'charged V8, RWD-SH AWD, a reinforced 6MT and added luxuries? I believe most consumers go to German Brands when the price tag gets higher. The sales of 70k$USD car is so low anyway, people want a little panache and yes, at that price, I think the badge matter more than a little.

I'm not pointing you, just asking an honest question. To be honest, the CTS-V is a car I might lease in 2011 (with a 6MT) and my list is restricted (2012 TL, M56x/s, CTS-V and a few Audis S4 S5). I would be ready to live with a RWD car in Ottawa winter for the sake of having a supercar all year long. I have mucho respect for Caddy to produce such a monster.

But to reply directly to your question, I would be too greatly interested in a bigger difference between type-S and non type-S: bring on the BBK, sporty exhaust, magnetic suspension and a supercharged V6/V8 AND great build quality, plz. I would take it black/ black with a nice light tint plz! Oh, and ditch the RS-A for the good old Michelin PS2 kthksbye!

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

F23A4

That's well stated and .

Acura clearly made an honest effort to clean up the styling faux pas committed with the 09-11 models, targeting the right areas and executing it reasonably well. (I'm eager to see one up close and in black.)

IMHO, the 4G TL has now gone from being a car that I really wouldn't want to see in my garage to a car I wouldn't mind in my garage (the latter being pretty much how I felt about my old 07 AV6 sedan).

Shift_Acura

All things aside, just face the fact that you are an Infiniti fan boy and you only come on here to participate in any thread where you can try to talk sh*t about Acura. Thats fine and dandy by me, I could care less what car brand you like or if you have too much time on your hands to go on automotive forums to talk trash about newer cars that you do not own.

Theres just way too many trolls and fanboys on here passing judgement on vehicles they do not own. trying to make it sound like their older models are better than the newer (better built) cars. Somebody needs to put these back in their place. I used to just try and ignore these types of people but theres WAY too much false information flying around. Too many people with emotional or mental issues trying to make it sound like their car is the best car in the world and everything else is just crap!

Its funny that you own a Nissan Maxima and a 1G FX and you're on here talking about interior quality issues...something that has plagued those brands for several years

jwong77

I don't know about the FX, but the current Maxima's interior is pretty darn good, much improved from the early 2000's Nissan and Infiniti interiors.

Shift_Acura

No he wouldn't. Nobody would, they just like to think that they would. In their head they think all of this. Then they think in their head what a huge disappointment Acura has been lately for not making something like this. Then they think in their head how important it is to post something like that on this forum because it is so important. Then 5 other members, who own FWD Accord based TL's, CL's and TSX's, jump in claiming how they would love to buy one of these types of cars. After all isn't that why they all bought cheap FWD Accord based Acura's in the first place? Because they had so much extra money in the first place but they just didn't wanna spend it. Its much more fun to just whine and complain these days.

pttl

You've just described every, and there are quite a few, H/A fanboy on here.



Btw...isn't it incumbent of any manufacturer, who wants to survive, to keep building BETTER cars? This argument of, 4G vs. 3G, build quality is moot.

The 3G, AT THE TIME was great. The 4G had best be better, or your beloved Ack is going backwards.

pttl

OR....How about this....I, for one, can't get my head wrapped around the idea of spending $70K on an Acura.

Point is, a higher hp motor would be attractive.

Shift_Acura

I've pointed out to you that you keep posting that in every other thread, trying to get a rise out of any H/A fan club. So far I haven't seen anyone reply to you.

I see far more H/A haters in this section than fanboys. I dont much go into the model specific sub forums since they are infested with fanboism and it scares me. (But its like that on just about every forum)

I would hardly consider ANY manufacturer "my beloved". I paid my hard earned cash to them for a depreciating asset. I look at every car maker the same way. So should a lot of other people. Shes not an exotic car company. Just a division of Honda.

Shift_Acura

Its pointless chatter though, isn't it?

I, for one, would like a $20k Bimmer, with a small 6 and RWD.

A cheaper BWM or Audi would be more attractive too

You can come up with a million of these "I would like..." statements.


I, for one, would like Brooklyn Decker to be my wife.

pttl

I'm not trying to "get a rise" out of anyone. I just found it ironic that you were bashing a "fanboy" of another brand and fanboy-ism in general, when these boards are crawling with H/A fanboys.

I see some "haters" here, but I see mostly disgruntled former or soon to be former Acura customers. Most of the "haters" are just dissapointed in the fact that Ack stubbornly ignores the enthusiast, and continues with the same fwd platforms that they have been turning out for years. With the one TV-AWD system being the exception.

With the MMC TL, Ack seems to have at least acknowledged the TL as being...um...awkward looking....Which btw...is why the higher HP chatter is NOT pointless. The "haters" are hoping that Ack will hear the other requests and throw the enthusiast car fans a bone for once.

VTEC Racer

So when did you become the owner of a 4G then? Hypocritical at an endless extent...

VTEC Racer

smarty666

I'm not an Infiniti fanboy, I've critized them plenty of times on here, don't think they did enough with the new M, don't like the front end changes on the 2G FX, think the lack of some features and price of the G25 was not right, and I could could on and on so how am I an Infiniti fanboy. You just don't take the time to read different sections of acurazine. Your loyalty to Acura blind you and others and brand loyalty means nothing. I go by what car's features, styling, and price I like and who gives me the best deal.

Your a typicaly Acura fanboy who can't stand anyone saying something critical or negative about one of their products. This is not the first time you've done this. Face it, your bias is proven even further in this post. If anything, you've been consistently anti-Infiniti and hence have another put down about them, this time about their interiors. I can tell you one thing, my 6 year old FX is more put together than the TL is for sure. It has one of the harshest most jarring rides I have ever had and not ONE damn thing rattles in it after all this time. If anything should be rattling or moved around by now its in that vehicle and it has not b/c it's built like a tank.

You need to take a freaking chill pill, seriously. I never said that that the 4G TL did not have areas that were better than the 3G, and I'm not going to go back and try to find the posts months and years ago where I stated positive things to suit your needs, I'm sick of doing that. Get off your high horse and go back to ignoring people's opinions you don't like.

I've had 4G loaners, a friend who has one and that has been enough of an experience, in conjunction with some people's post on here, to not want me to get a 09-11 TL. Now, the 2012 has some nice improvements, but I have yet to sit or drive one so how can I see how it has changed

If you think the Maxima and FX has interior quality issues then you live in a bubble. The current Maxima interior is very nice and the ergonomics much better than the current TL. Not everything is about styling and material quality in an interior. I was talking about one specific thing and you and other Acura fanatics blew it all out of proportion. Here come the personal attacks again on my other vehicles which have nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Real mature and typical as usual.

Bearcat94

smarty666

The Maxima, Altima, and Infiniti interiors all get rave/positive reviews now. Once in a while I see a con mentioned but everyone gets that, accept maybe Audi, when it comes to the interiors. There is only one thing in the Maxima's interior that I think is poor quality and that is the radio nobs. Everything else is soft touch and has simple/great ergonomics.

smarty666

What I have always had trouble wrapping my head around is, if these Acura and 4G TL supporters can sit there and say that the 4G TL is vastly superior in build, quality, etc, then the 3G, then why are 4G owners still having rattle and quality issues and why has the TL sales been so lousy compared to the rest of the entry-lux segment? I mean, last month's was pitiful and you can't blame the recession and economy any more. It has to be some issues with the car that is causing it.

I am hoping for Acura's sake, that the refinement changes made to the 2012 TL help boost its sales or they are going to have to wait till the 5G comes out in 2013 to see any improvement. Thank the Lord the revised grill makes the front-end more tolerable to look at. I like the 6spd auto was added and ventilated seat as well. For me though, and I wasn't expecting them to change this anyway, its just too big of a car for what I need or want. Hopefully that will change with the 5G.

smarty666

Long before you even owned a Honda or Acura product to begin with

Legend2TL

VTEC Racer

Shift_Acura

I wouldn't say they were disappointed or disgruntled. Nah, more like hypocrites. They all bought Acura products because its a value driven brand (You generally get more standard features and size/power than the Germans or even Lexus). ALL their cars were built on Accord platforms and shared Accord motors/components.

So back then it was alright for them to buy it rite? But now it is just out dated crap?

NOW they should be using RWD chasis and new DI Supercharged motors. All these things were not important to the disgruntled owners when they bought their cars in the first place. What happened there?

We all came here because we decided to give up a little bit of performance for more value/features and reliability. Acura is still building decent cars - like they always did. I dont think they were ever that great, still aren't IMO. But most people seem to have forgotten why they purchased an Acura in the first place.

Shift_Acura

You always have the best come backs.

I guess if I think the TL has better quality interior than a Maxima I must be a Blind Loyalist to Acura. Wait, I actually own an RSX and a TSX and I joined an Acura forum. Damn it that must mean that I am an Acura fan boy.

fsttyms1

Hell yes i would consider it (granted the styling was right). Especially if it packed the performance like the CTS-V does. It would be a bargain, especially with the loaded content that acura usually puts into their vehicles

fsttyms1

Thanks for speaking for me. But YES, YES i would consider it. The CTS-V is currently on my list to buy, that along with the new Genesis 5.0 (though no where near as potent as the V) Does it hurt you that much that some want MORE from Acura? Even if they cant afford it? That some want the brand to have a Premium model like AMG to Mercedes, M to BMW, V to Caddy?

Shift_Acura

The current Max is a huge leap forward in quality than the previous Gen. Although still not up to Lexus/Acura standards in quality. The buttons and knobs still move around in their housing and feel cheap. Its still using the same buttons,knobs, and pungent orange display screen as the dreaded 6th gen. I made the mistake of purchasing an 04 Max and the interior quality was just simply unacceptable. I'm not just talking about rattles, I'm talking about stuff literally falling apart. My 03 is much better than the 04. Nissan had huge quality issues when Ghosn took over. This is not an opinion, it was widely known and it was obvious if you ever sat in a Nissan/Infiniti product from 03-06.

I'm a huge Nissan fan. We have owned about 5 or 6 over the past ten years. But interior quality was never as good as Toyota/Honda.

There are so many things you could complain about on the new TL. Styling, weight, power, etc. But I found it very trollingly odd that there would be interior quality complains.