Acura: TLX News
12-08-2014, 01:54 PM
Team Owner
12-08-2014, 02:15 PM
AZ Community Team
I'm not sure about the "regardless of print point or purpose" part. The X5/6 50i or even the M models are no doubt catered for the enthusiasts. But some of the cheaper offerings, I'm not sure if they are catered for enthusiasts anymore. The most notable one is the F30 3 series and many have claimed that the steering has been dumbed down a lot. In many comparison tests, you'd hear journalists saying how the IS and ATS are better drivers' cars than the 3 series.
It's not that BMW can't tune a steering, the M235i and 4 series are IMO examples of true BMW's that are worthy of "the ultimate driving machine" slogan. But it just seems like BMW deliberately (and understandably) makes the 3 series more family oriented.
It's not that BMW can't tune a steering, the M235i and 4 series are IMO examples of true BMW's that are worthy of "the ultimate driving machine" slogan. But it just seems like BMW deliberately (and understandably) makes the 3 series more family oriented.
BMW and MB have been moving toward each other's markets for the past couple decades. MB has gotten sportier and BMW more luxurious. It's worked well for BMW as their market share and sales globally have soared.
Lately the BMW sportiness has dialed back even a little more than I'd like. I spent a week with a 2013 740i (rental in Miami) and although a really nice car, it reminded me more of a German Lexus than a traditional BMW. Great tech, ride, even handling (electronic sway control was pretty neat), it lacked feedback and seat of the pants feeling of older BMW's.
The M-group has also scaled back their engines, in the past they would typically get purpose built motors that were made for performance. The M88, S54, S62, S65, and S85 all represented the top echelon of production cars. Now they get by with tuning and tweaking their standard line motors (still superior) but MB AMG went the opposite way, they were criticized for SC/TC their production motors. Then MB went off designed and developed their own N/A 6.3L V8, for the full fledged AMG products. Motor Trend had a great article about the M-group about 7-8 years ago, they were the first North American magazine to be allowed into their main facility and take pictures.
What BMW car division's taking a slightly milder approach, the opposite is happening at the motorcycle division. The latest BMW sport bikes are really edgy and sporty, instead of old R-class 2-cylinder air-cooled boxer motor, single side swing arms, shaft drive and panalever front suspensions the S1000RR copied the Japanese liter sport bikes tech. Male slider forks, double side swing arm, chain drive and a inline water cooled four. S1000RR also won alot of comparison tests against Japanese sports too.
Although purists may not like it BMW sales are doing extremely well, so their strategy has certainly paid off.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 12-08-2014 at 02:20 PM.
12-08-2014, 02:32 PM
AZ Community Team
^ forgot to add in BMW's M-group engine head Paul Rosche who led the design and development of their motors, and the exclusive use of ITB too.
12-08-2014, 03:35 PM
Some dude
At least he stopped trying to say Ferrari owners can't afford milk. Still dumb as a brick though.
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RPhilMan1 (12-09-2014)
12-08-2014, 04:05 PM
AZ Community Team
12-08-2014, 04:27 PM
12-08-2014, 05:03 PM
Ex-OEM King
12-08-2014, 05:59 PM
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BMW and MB have been moving toward each other's markets for the past couple decades. MB has gotten sportier and BMW more luxurious. It's worked well for BMW as their market share and sales globally have soared.
Lately the BMW sportiness has dialed back even a little more than I'd like. I spent a week with a 2013 740i (rental in Miami) and although a really nice car, it reminded me more of a German Lexus than a traditional BMW. Great tech, ride, even handling (electronic sway control was pretty neat), it lacked feedback and seat of the pants feeling of older BMW's.
The M-group has also scaled back their engines, in the past they would typically get purpose built motors that were made for performance. The M88, S54, S62, S65, and S85 all represented the top echelon of production cars. Now they get by with tuning and tweaking their standard line motors (still superior) but MB AMG went the opposite way, they were criticized for SC/TC their production motors. Then MB went off designed and developed their own N/A 6.3L V8, for the full fledged AMG products. Motor Trend had a great article about the M-group about 7-8 years ago, they were the first North American magazine to be allowed into their main facility and take pictures.
What BMW car division's taking a slightly milder approach, the opposite is happening at the motorcycle division. The latest BMW sport bikes are really edgy and sporty, instead of old R-class 2-cylinder air-cooled boxer motor, single side swing arms, shaft drive and panalever front suspensions the S1000RR copied the Japanese liter sport bikes tech. Male slider forks, double side swing arm, chain drive and a inline water cooled four. S1000RR also won alot of comparison tests against Japanese sports too.
Although purists may not like it BMW sales are doing extremely well, so their strategy has certainly paid off.
Lately the BMW sportiness has dialed back even a little more than I'd like. I spent a week with a 2013 740i (rental in Miami) and although a really nice car, it reminded me more of a German Lexus than a traditional BMW. Great tech, ride, even handling (electronic sway control was pretty neat), it lacked feedback and seat of the pants feeling of older BMW's.
The M-group has also scaled back their engines, in the past they would typically get purpose built motors that were made for performance. The M88, S54, S62, S65, and S85 all represented the top echelon of production cars. Now they get by with tuning and tweaking their standard line motors (still superior) but MB AMG went the opposite way, they were criticized for SC/TC their production motors. Then MB went off designed and developed their own N/A 6.3L V8, for the full fledged AMG products. Motor Trend had a great article about the M-group about 7-8 years ago, they were the first North American magazine to be allowed into their main facility and take pictures.
What BMW car division's taking a slightly milder approach, the opposite is happening at the motorcycle division. The latest BMW sport bikes are really edgy and sporty, instead of old R-class 2-cylinder air-cooled boxer motor, single side swing arms, shaft drive and panalever front suspensions the S1000RR copied the Japanese liter sport bikes tech. Male slider forks, double side swing arm, chain drive and a inline water cooled four. S1000RR also won alot of comparison tests against Japanese sports too.
Although purists may not like it BMW sales are doing extremely well, so their strategy has certainly paid off.
12-08-2014, 07:09 PM
Some dude
12-08-2014, 08:18 PM
AZ Community Team
So stop posting like you in this thread? Making personal insults to others? Does that make make intelligent conversation?
12-08-2014, 08:25 PM
AZ Community Team
I definitely see what you mean. Being one of the top luxury car makers, it's no surprise that it has its own performance division. But like you are saying, even its own performance division is getting a bit less sophisticated. The Active Sound system is one of the issues with using standard line engine. To this date, I'm still surprised BMW did that to a M car.
12-09-2014, 08:13 AM
12-09-2014, 08:27 AM
AZ Community Team
^ x2
Wonder how ZF messed up the parking pawl gear for the 9AT in the V6, someone said it was debris in the box for certain production range.
ZF have been building gearboxes for almost a century.
Wonder how ZF messed up the parking pawl gear for the 9AT in the V6, someone said it was debris in the box for certain production range.
ZF have been building gearboxes for almost a century.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 12-09-2014 at 08:30 AM.
12-09-2014, 08:50 AM
Some dude
I really don't understand why you think making ignorant statements warrants intelligent responses. Stop whining about it and start using your brain for once in one of these threads... or keep being a troll, it's a free country.
12-09-2014, 09:02 AM
AZ Community Team
12-09-2014, 09:10 AM
Racer
And that's a good way to counter the criticism from some voices toward Acura. Sales are up.
Since the TLX was launched, Acura sales are neck and neck with Audi in the U.S. (And U.S. Audi sales are way up, with the new A3 & Q3.) October 2014 U.S. sales; Audi: 15,150 Acura: 15,427
As you said, the strategy has paid off for all of them.
12-09-2014, 10:06 AM
Some dude
BMW could sell a fwd minivan for $70k and people would buy it, it doesn't mean its a strategy Acura should be following.
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jwong77 (12-09-2014)
12-09-2014, 10:09 AM
2024 Honda Civic Type R
And you're not mucking up here with your banter?
https://acurazine.com/forums/automot.../#post15249735
At least mine had a car in it with a view of exhaust pipes
Feel free to close as well out of the thread as well
https://acurazine.com/forums/automot.../#post15249735
At least mine had a car in it with a view of exhaust pipes
Feel free to close as well out of the thread as well
12-09-2014, 10:18 AM
2024 Honda Civic Type R
Acura: 14,559
Audi: 13,636
November 2014 Sales
Acura: 14,857
Audi: 16,640
For November 2014 Acura sales, 8649 units were C/SUV. That's 58.2%.
For November 2014 Audi sales, 6665 units were C/SUV. That's 40.1%.
There were 2511 A3s sold in November 2014. Only 735 Q3s were sold. The A8 is up 15.7%, the Allroad is up 3.3%, Q5 is up 16.8%, and Q7 is up 14.6%. Naturally, the A3 is taking some sales away from the A4 (down 14.8%), but the real bread winners are the A8 and SUVs.
Audi is up 22% year-to-year and 15.4% year-to-date.
Acura is only up 2% year-to-year and 0.2% year-to-date.
Last edited by RPhilMan1; 12-09-2014 at 10:23 AM.
12-09-2014, 10:37 AM
Moderator
12-09-2014, 10:44 AM
Yes, you're right. Despite the disparagement of car magazines and enthusiasts lamenting the loss of steering feel and the move away from a sporting driving experience in most BMW's, sales are up.
And that's a good way to counter the criticism from some voices toward Acura. Sales are up.
Since the TLX was launched, Acura sales are neck and neck with Audi in the U.S. (And U.S. Audi sales are way up, with the new A3 & Q3.) October 2014 U.S. sales; Audi: 15,150 Acura: 15,427
As you said, the strategy has paid off for all of them.
And that's a good way to counter the criticism from some voices toward Acura. Sales are up.
Since the TLX was launched, Acura sales are neck and neck with Audi in the U.S. (And U.S. Audi sales are way up, with the new A3 & Q3.) October 2014 U.S. sales; Audi: 15,150 Acura: 15,427
As you said, the strategy has paid off for all of them.
12-09-2014, 10:56 AM
Ex-OEM King
^ Enthusiasts are a very small drop in the bucket of the general car buying public.
That said, the performance modes are the ones that get people into dealerships. Even non-enthusiasts will look at a performance model and say "wow, that looks awesome!" even though they aren't interested in spending more to get it.
That said, the performance modes are the ones that get people into dealerships. Even non-enthusiasts will look at a performance model and say "wow, that looks awesome!" even though they aren't interested in spending more to get it.
12-09-2014, 11:08 AM
Originally Posted by SamDoe1;152630b39
^ Enthusiasts are a very small drop in the bucket of the general car buying public.
Originally Posted by SamDoe1;152630b39
That said, the performance modes are the ones that get people into dealerships. Even non-enthusiasts will look at a performance model and say "wow, that looks awesome!" even though they aren't interested in spending more to get it.
12-09-2014, 12:21 PM
Racer
November 2013 Sales
Acura: 14,559
Audi: 13,636
November 2014 Sales
Acura: 14,857
Audi: 16,640
For November 2014 Acura sales, 8649 units were C/SUV. That's 58.2%.
For November 2014 Audi sales, 6665 units were C/SUV. That's 40.1%.
There were 2511 A3s sold in November 2014. Only 735 Q3s were sold. The A8 is up 15.7%, the Allroad is up 3.3%, Q5 is up 16.8%, and Q7 is up 14.6%. Naturally, the A3 is taking some sales away from the A4 (down 14.8%), but the real bread winners are the A8 and SUVs.
Audi is up 22% year-to-year and 15.4% year-to-date.
Acura is only up 2% year-to-year and 0.2% year-to-date.
Acura: 14,559
Audi: 13,636
November 2014 Sales
Acura: 14,857
Audi: 16,640
For November 2014 Acura sales, 8649 units were C/SUV. That's 58.2%.
For November 2014 Audi sales, 6665 units were C/SUV. That's 40.1%.
There were 2511 A3s sold in November 2014. Only 735 Q3s were sold. The A8 is up 15.7%, the Allroad is up 3.3%, Q5 is up 16.8%, and Q7 is up 14.6%. Naturally, the A3 is taking some sales away from the A4 (down 14.8%), but the real bread winners are the A8 and SUVs.
Audi is up 22% year-to-year and 15.4% year-to-date.
Acura is only up 2% year-to-year and 0.2% year-to-date.
Year to date sales increases favor Audi, as they have been selling the A3 since April, (nearly six months ahead of the TLX).
Audi is getting over 3,000 cars per month from the A3 and Q3, (inexpensive vehicles based upon the VW Golf platform)...and that is a huge reason for their huge sales increase over the past year.
Even with that, Acura is closer to Audi in sales than most people might realize, (They surpassed Audi in October).
Last edited by Boulder TSX; 12-09-2014 at 12:26 PM.
12-09-2014, 12:44 PM
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Year to date sales increases favor Audi, as they have been selling the A3 since April, (nearly six months ahead of the TLX).
Audi is getting over 3,000 cars per month from the A3 and Q3, (inexpensive vehicles based upon the VW Golf platform)...and that is a huge reason for their huge sales increase over the past year.
Even with that, Acura is closer to Audi in sales than most people might realize, (They surpassed Audi in October).
Audi is getting over 3,000 cars per month from the A3 and Q3, (inexpensive vehicles based upon the VW Golf platform)...and that is a huge reason for their huge sales increase over the past year.
Even with that, Acura is closer to Audi in sales than most people might realize, (They surpassed Audi in October).
When you look at Audi, there are so many models to choose from, and so many variations.
Sedans
A3, S3
A4, S4
A6, S6
A7, S7, RS7
A8, S8, A8L, A8 W12
SUVs
Q3
Q5, SQ5, Q5 Hybrid
Q7
All Road
Coupes
A5, S5, RS5
TT, TTS
R8
Convertibles
A3
A5, S5, RS5,
TT, TTS
R8
For comparison, all Acura has are sedans and SUVs:
Sedans
ILX
TLX
RLX
SUVs
RDX
MDX
With so many models to choose from along with a much better brand image, and a much wider price range, I'd have thought Audi would be way ahead of Acura.
12-09-2014, 01:23 PM
Racer
I agree. Audi's brand image 'perception' seems to be right there with BMW, Mercedes & Lexus...but they trail all three by a good amount.
Acura has actually outsold Audi in 9 of the last 10 years, and I would not have guessed that, either.
Acura has actually outsold Audi in 9 of the last 10 years, and I would not have guessed that, either.
12-09-2014, 01:26 PM
Moderator
I've not done a detailed model-by-model analysis, but I suspect the closeness in overall sales volume is the sheer number of SUVs Acura sells.
12-09-2014, 01:36 PM
Yes, you're right. Despite the disparagement of car magazines and enthusiasts lamenting the loss of steering feel and the move away from a sporting driving experience in most BMW's, sales are up.
And that's a good way to counter the criticism from some voices toward Acura. Sales are up.
And that's a good way to counter the criticism from some voices toward Acura. Sales are up.
The same can be said of the 5 series. Over the past 10 years, 2013 sales were the highest ever.
If we look at Mercedes, C and E class sales for 2012 and 2013 surpassed #s for every single year over the prior 10 years. 2014 will be another strong year for them and will probably surpass 2013 sales.
If we look at Lexus IS sales, 2014 looks like it will be a strong year for them too. And compared to sales over the past 10 years, 2014 will be the 3rd highest.
All this despite "increased competition." Yet when the subject comes up about TLX sales vs prior years, people will use the "increased competition" excuse to explain why the TLX likely won't do as well. Why is that? Shouldn't this "increased competition" be affecting 3 and 5 series, C and E class, and IS sales too? Instead, they're setting new sales records.
12-09-2014, 01:41 PM
Racer
SUV's are a large portion of almost every luxury brand's sales these days.
The Q5 was Audi's best-selling vehicle this year.
The RX has been Lexus top-selling vehicle for many years.
The Q5 was Audi's best-selling vehicle this year.
The RX has been Lexus top-selling vehicle for many years.
12-09-2014, 01:49 PM
AZ Community Team
12-09-2014, 01:55 PM
12-09-2014, 01:56 PM
AZ Community Team
That's a bit of a surprise to me to be honest.
When you look at Audi, there are so many models to choose from, and so many variations.
Sedans
A3, S3
A4, S4
A6, S6
A7, S7, RS7
A8, S8, A8L, A8 W12
SUVs
Q3
Q5, SQ5, Q5 Hybrid
Q7
All Road
Coupes
A5, S5, RS5
TT, TTS
R8
Convertibles
A3
A5, S5, RS5,
TT, TTS
R8
For comparison, all Acura has are sedans and SUVs:
Sedans
ILX
TLX
RLX
SUVs
RDX
MDX
With so many models to choose from along with a much better brand image, and a much wider price range, I'd have thought Audi would be way ahead of Acura.
When you look at Audi, there are so many models to choose from, and so many variations.
Sedans
A3, S3
A4, S4
A6, S6
A7, S7, RS7
A8, S8, A8L, A8 W12
SUVs
Q3
Q5, SQ5, Q5 Hybrid
Q7
All Road
Coupes
A5, S5, RS5
TT, TTS
R8
Convertibles
A3
A5, S5, RS5,
TT, TTS
R8
For comparison, all Acura has are sedans and SUVs:
Sedans
ILX
TLX
RLX
SUVs
RDX
MDX
With so many models to choose from along with a much better brand image, and a much wider price range, I'd have thought Audi would be way ahead of Acura.
IMO what holds the average car buyer back is Audi's not so stellar reputation for reliability and cost of ownership. My brother leased a Q5 for his ex-wife (long story) replacing her 2004 Cayenne Turbo so I curious to see it next time I visit and see how it works out for her. So far she loves it, as most recent Audi owners I know loved driving them. For average owners reliability is still a pillar for Acura, and more so for Honda.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 12-09-2014 at 02:07 PM.
12-09-2014, 01:58 PM
Senior Moderator
Friendly reminder for you gentlemen to ACT like gentlemen, please? 
Holy, it's like you're fighting over reposts in here or something. (Joke for those who get it.)
Holy, it's like you're fighting over reposts in here or something. (Joke for those who get it.)
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12-09-2014, 02:17 PM
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12-09-2014, 06:10 PM
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This is what I find funny. Not only are BMW 3 series sales up, but during the past 2 years (2013 and 2014 YTD) 3 series sales have surpassed sales for every year over the past 10 years except for 2006.
The same can be said of the 5 series. Over the past 10 years, 2013 sales were the highest ever.
If we look at Mercedes, C and E class sales for 2012 and 2013 surpassed #s for every single year over the prior 10 years. 2014 will be another strong year for them and will probably surpass 2013 sales.
If we look at Lexus IS sales, 2014 looks like it will be a strong year for them too. And compared to sales over the past 10 years, 2014 will be the 3rd highest.
All this despite "increased competition." Yet when the subject comes up about TLX sales vs prior years, people will use the "increased competition" excuse to explain why the TLX likely won't do as well. Why is that? Shouldn't this "increased competition" be affecting 3 and 5 series, C and E class, and IS sales too? Instead, they're setting new sales records.
The same can be said of the 5 series. Over the past 10 years, 2013 sales were the highest ever.
If we look at Mercedes, C and E class sales for 2012 and 2013 surpassed #s for every single year over the prior 10 years. 2014 will be another strong year for them and will probably surpass 2013 sales.
If we look at Lexus IS sales, 2014 looks like it will be a strong year for them too. And compared to sales over the past 10 years, 2014 will be the 3rd highest.
All this despite "increased competition." Yet when the subject comes up about TLX sales vs prior years, people will use the "increased competition" excuse to explain why the TLX likely won't do as well. Why is that? Shouldn't this "increased competition" be affecting 3 and 5 series, C and E class, and IS sales too? Instead, they're setting new sales records.
Here's the link:
BMW 3-Series Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR
The TLX is looking strong indeed. I think by increased competition, people are also talking about the likes of CLA and A3. These cars are priced closer to the TLX. People who care about the emblem would jump to those cars before considering the TLX. The German brands don't really suffer from this.
Being a global brand Audi can also offer multiple more models than Acura, sepite only selling not many of them in the US.
IMO what holds the average car buyer back is Audi's not so stellar reputation for reliability and cost of ownership. My brother leased a Q5 for his ex-wife (long story) replacing her 2004 Cayenne Turbo so I curious to see it next time I visit and see how it works out for her. So far she loves it, as most recent Audi owners I know loved driving them. For average owners reliability is still a pillar for Acura, and more so for Honda.
IMO what holds the average car buyer back is Audi's not so stellar reputation for reliability and cost of ownership. My brother leased a Q5 for his ex-wife (long story) replacing her 2004 Cayenne Turbo so I curious to see it next time I visit and see how it works out for her. So far she loves it, as most recent Audi owners I know loved driving them. For average owners reliability is still a pillar for Acura, and more so for Honda.
12-09-2014, 06:48 PM
I drive a Subata.
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My head hurts in this thread.
12-09-2014, 06:55 PM
Team Owner
Slight fact correction - 2007 sales was 142,490, 2006 was 120,180. From 2002-2005 was around 110000/year. 2011 and 2012 were actually below 100000/year. 2013 was a good year at 119521, and 2014 is already at 122768 excluding December. The 3 series has always been considered the class leader. While the old 3 series coupe has become the 4 series, BMW also added several variations to the 3 series. For example, years ago, there were no 3 series GT, not as many diesel options, not as many wagon options, etc. I also don't recall seeing a 320i back in 2007.
Here's the link:
BMW 3-Series Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR
The TLX is looking strong indeed. I think by increased competition, people are also talking about the likes of CLA and A3. These cars are priced closer to the TLX. People who care about the emblem would jump to those cars before considering the TLX. The German brands don't really suffer from this.
My friend also has a Q5 and it was just out of warranty. Long and behold, on his recent road trip, his engine light came out. Luckily it was a only an actuator issue and costed him just about $500 to fix. But his brakes are almost done now and the dealership is quoting him $1500 for a brake job.
Here's the link:
BMW 3-Series Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR
The TLX is looking strong indeed. I think by increased competition, people are also talking about the likes of CLA and A3. These cars are priced closer to the TLX. People who care about the emblem would jump to those cars before considering the TLX. The German brands don't really suffer from this.
My friend also has a Q5 and it was just out of warranty. Long and behold, on his recent road trip, his engine light came out. Luckily it was a only an actuator issue and costed him just about $500 to fix. But his brakes are almost done now and the dealership is quoting him $1500 for a brake job.
I have never done any of those at the dealer but i would assume Acura will charge about 250 for each pair of rotor for MDX... and 250-300 for 4 pads and $250 for fluid flush and another 200 for labor
That is not too far off from 1500.