SamDoe1

None of this matters. You yourself admitted that all of these were inferior when it comes to AWD and off road to an old Fiat.

If you believe it to be true, I'll see you in Utah on May 24th. Bring any Honda product you like with whatever rims and tires you choose.

oonowindoo

Watch he shows up with one of these
https://powersports.honda.com/off-road

SamDoe1

That's fine with me but he still can't tout the AWD ability of one of those for obvious reasons.

YEH

Not only did the resident fool get the whole small car thing wrong (like he did in claiming FWD was superior to RWD), considering pretty much all Honda sells in Japan is small if not tiny (Kei) cars.

But Honda isn't even competitive in markets like Australia where they like big cars, trucks and SUVs.

Little Mazda is the #2 brand in Australia and sold nearly 1,300 CX-8s and CX-9s last month, with nearly 1,400 sales of their BT pickup and over 3k CX-5 sales.

Mazda did more in CX-5 sales than Honda did overall (2,376) - with Honda being the only brand to DROP in sales compared to March of last year.

As for China, being overly dependent on that market for growth is not a good thing as past history shows.

There already was a boycott against Japanese automakers previously and with nationalistic govts on both sides, the island dispute can easily heat up again.

Meanwhile H/K is #2 in India and Russia, #4 in Mexico and Brazil, and the largest import automaker in Europe (#3 in the UK; Honda is 22nd), not to mention being #2 in Australia.

YEH

Going back to China, Genesis just launched there and in a short period of time (once the GV70 is available) should outsell Acura.

And unlike Honda, Genesis doesn't have to split profits.

SSFTSX

Autralia market favor body on frame pickups and SUVs. like Hilux and Prado. Honda revenues per vehicle are highest in industry despite highest R&D. Honda not responsbile for Industrial investments in China. Chinese doing the investments. Chinese building the battery technology. Honda just slap its Honda badge to assure Honda reliability and brand identity.. Korea trying to compete in every market will collpase faster due to lack of warranty and reliability.

SamDoe1

Hondas are crap. Why would I want a car that isn't even as good as a crappy Fiat in a simple off road test?

SSFTSX

i didnot respond to your irrelevent bursts as i have no interests in discussing a firm that need bailout spractically every year with tri owner and with no one knows who in charge. dysfunctional identity.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/202.../fiat-j30.html

Italy hands Fiat Chrysler a multi-billion-euro bailout

This week the Italian government issued a decree under its Rilancia Italia (Relaunch Italy) COVID-19 bailout scheme guaranteeing €6 billion in loans to the Fiat Chrysler Group Italy (FCA

SamDoe1

At least they take the money to make a better AWD systems with better rims and tires than Honda has ever been able to produce.

Also you not responding to my irrelevant comments is the most ironic thing you've ever posted.

YEH

Here you go again talking about something you know little about.

Only 1,376 out of the 10,800 Mazda sales were comprised of BoF.

Around 6,300 of Mazda's near 11k sales were comprised of crossovers, with the rest (aside from the BT) being cars.

H/K hold the 2nd position among automakers in Australia and they don't have any BoF models (at least not yet, and when they do, should be able to give Toyota a run for the top spot).

What matters isn't revenue, but margins per vehicle and Honda has among the lowest in the industry right now.

For a place that supposed R&D spending, what does Honda have to show for it?

HMG is ahead of Honda when it comes to electrics, FCEVs and they will soon have a lineup of BoF pickup and SUVs.

And oh, their lux brand actually is underpinned by a separate architecture and just a gussied up FWD one which they claim is "new.:

In addition to what had posted previously about Honda's abysmal margins....

In April, Hachigo announced plans to have Honda absorb the research unit's auto development business. Many analysts see the move as a sign that the company is determined to turn around its auto business, which has been plagued by inefficiency and anemic profits.

Hachigo decided to intrude into sacred territory -- despite strong opposition from former and current employees -- in an effort to shore up its sluggish automobile business. For the fiscal year through March 2020, the automobile business' operating profit fell 27% on the year to 153.3 billion yen and its operating profit margin was as low as 1.5%. The unit logged an operating loss of 75.6 billion yen in the January-March quarter of 2020.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Honda-drives-drastic-R-D-reforms-to-reverse-slow-auto-business

As usual, what you spout is so far from reality.

SSFTSX

Mazda is bankrupt brand. If in market Mazda exist does not mean Honda has to enter to that market. Honda is premium brand with real profits after own R&D. it can pick and choose markets. In Jan-March 2020 every manufacturer posted a loss. Just one or two quarter does not make a difference.

Honda has 182K sales in Q1 in Japan. while Mazda only 62K.
https://www.just-auto.com/news/japan..._id201152.aspx

It jumped bank to $2.7b quarterly profit.

https://www.manufacturing.net/automo...0fiscal%20year.TOKYO (AP) — Honda reported Tuesday its fiscal third quarter profit more than doubled to 284 billion yen ($2.7 billion) despite the coronavirus pandemic as auto sales grew in Japan and the U.S.

Japanese automaker Honda Motor Co. had reported a 116 billion yen profit for October-December a year earlier.

Honda’s quarterly sales inched up less than 1% to 3.7 trillion yen ($35 billion).

YEH

^ And yet, that bankrupt automaker is doing what Honda hasn't been able to do - invest in a large-scale RWD platform.

Honda doesn't make much $ in Japan, selling low margin small or tiny vehicles.

Don't know yet about last month, but for February, Honda was losing marketshare in Japan, even to the likes of Nissan.

And as had indicated earlier, things were even worse for Honda Auto - a simply abysmal 0.8 margin.


And at 2.9%, it wasn't like things were rosy either the year before, prior to the pandemic.

So, Honda had its best March last month in the US.

So what? Numerous automakers had their best March last month.

But H/K each had their best month (not just March) ever, which is why they continued the streak of outselling Honda.

While Honda's profit margin situation has improved as the overall market has improved, they still lag most of the competition and are towards the bottom.

It's a bit humorous to see that Honda USA is where H/K were a no. of years ago.

Overly reliant on car sales (needing discounts to push sales in a truck/CUV/SUV) market, with a limited and aging CUV lineup (having one of the better car lineups doesn't really help).

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

how many years of trying to persuade SSFTX have you got under your belt YEH?
more than 3 years...

science says you cant change someones mind with facts. we know this to be the case because we have seen it with anti maskers.

YEH

^ Eh, know that it's a virtual impossibility to change his mind (since he has well shown zero capability of learning anything).

Just having fun playing around - hope his mind doesn't get more scrambled than it already is trying to combat actual facts and logic.

SSFTSX

I said earlier RWD platforms are obsolete and worthless. A single engine TLX has more sales than 3 RWD sedans with multiple engines from Genesis even with 10 year warranty and free maintainance.
1.04G with braking under 100feet braking on 245 tire. this is called FWD engineering power. sold out at $45k with less standard equipment than BMW 3 series.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/hond...t-test-review/

2021 Honda Civic Type R Limited Edition First Test: Real Deal

Those cars not selling cheaper than Civic and Accord here. Cars in Japan are expensivie. Honda Legend (Acura RLX) sells for $110K in in Japan. double the price. please educate yourself before babbling.
so one month is market share when Honda hasnt introduce new vehciles and has least amount of hybrid and electriified vehicles. Honda is Not Hyundai that devalue its brand image.


Honda best month with oldest vehiciles in lineup. Civic/CRV/Pilot/Insight/Ridgline/HRV are all basically 5 or more years old.
Honda is about technological leadership in quality ,brand image with strong resale values. it cannot be measured with Hyundai metrics.

SamDoe1

^ Answer me this. Why would anyone want to buy a product from a company that can't make a better AWD system than what's in an old Fiat?

SSFTSX

it will be 10mpg if with American. mpg are worse than V8 BOF.

SamDoe1

At least it'll go anywhere it wants to go, unlike Honda.

YEH

And you are wrong as usual.

Genesis is making a good bit more profit on each G80 and G90 sold than Acura does for the TLX (also, appears that there isn't enough supply of the 3.5T, esp. in colors not black or white, and even more especially, the Prestige).

Remind me, which lux brand was it that had to cancel its flagship FWD sedan (wasn't much if a flagship to begin with)?

(I mean, what lux brand has it as their flagship sedan, a sedan in the compact/entry-level segment? Lol)

And worldwide, Genesis sells a good bit more G80s than Acura does the TLX, again at significantly higher margins.

But let's see what C/D and MT have to say.

Ranking of ICE compact/entry-level lux sedans:

C/D
G70 - 2nd
TLX - 9th

MT
G70 - 2nd
TLX - 8th

Once again, automakers could give a rat's arse about resale.

The S Class has horrendous resale, but it is one of the most profitable models ever.

And lower priced vehicles tend to have better resale, and since Acura doesn't sell much above the $50k pricepoint...

Btw, the new G80 and TLX are expected to retain the same % of their value after 3 years; considering the G80 is a higher priced model, actually makes out better than the TLX.


And what? Honda sells like maybe 10 of them a month?

There is not one Honda model anywhere near the price of the G80 or GV80 (much less the G90) that does any appreciable volume in Japan.



Excuses, excuses - who's fault is it exactly that Honda is behind on hybrids and electrics (weren't you bragging about Honda's position with regard to electrics?).

Mazda does double Civic sales with the 3 in Japan - got another excuse?

YEH

Quote:

Honda is about technological leadership in quality ,brand image with strong resale values. it cannot be measured with Hyundai metrics.

What tech is Honda leading in exactly?

Honda is behind HMG when it comes to electrics and FCEVs, so has to go crawling to GM to build its next electrics.

Meanwhile H/K have been making waves with the Ioniq 5 and EV6, and Genesis will have at least 3 electrics before Acura has even a whiff of one.

Hyundai's ATP has achieved parity (if not gone higher) with Honda and has lower incentive spending.

Meanwhile, Genesis' ATP is at least $15k higher than Acura's and hasn't been a leader in incentive spending like Acura has been.

Those are the metrics that automakers care about and what industry analysts look at.


Oh gee, is this the best you can do? LMAO! !

Already saw the video and not even close to being a reliable indicator of fuel economy.

Meanwhile, C/D SUV rankings:

GV80 - 1st
MDX - 13th

Mediocre fuel economy being one of the reasons for its poor showing.

Observed fuel economy - 16 mpg

That tied it with what C/D got for the GV80, except it was for the more powerful GV80.

And Acura's flagship barely being more luxurious than the Telluride or Palisade doesn't help matters.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acura/mdx/2022/2022-acura-mdx-first-drive-review/

So when word arrived that I'd review the redesigned 2022 MDX, I was stoked. I was even more stoked when Acura delivered a top-of-the-line Advance model coated in elusive Phantom Violet Pearl paint. Yet, as I drove it, my fervor faded. For a vehicle that Acura proclaims is the "best-selling three-row luxury SUV of all time," this new fourth-generation MDX is missing a crucial part of that equation: luxury.

Aside from a bit of trim around the door pulls and some padding on the armrests, the rear cabin is rife with basic carpeting and hard plastic. That may prove resilient enough to endure rigors of family transportation, but for those who want an SUV decorated to impress friends or clients, the MDX doesn't cut it. Rear amenities such as heated seats and USB ports are available, but these days those hardly qualify a luxury label. Things such as power-folding seats and plush second-row captain's chairs do, neither of which is offered.

But as rising stars such as the Lincoln Aviator or Genesis GV80 shake up the space, the MDX's badge equity isn't as strong as it once was. And when a fully loaded Hyundai Palisade Calligraphy can be had for $48,935, price-conscious three-row-SUV shoppers should remember that there's competition from outside the luxury establishment. Although the MDX will save you money over a similarly optioned three-row Mercedes-Benz or BMW, those are far from the only competitors these days.


Have plenty of confidence that we'll see a similar gap in rankings btwn the GV70 and RDX.

SSFTSX

most of it marketing BS from paid magzine advertizement.

Quote:

Btw, the new G80 and TLX are expected to retain the

expected to retain? have you looked at craigslist.
some version of Kia and Hyundia that no one buys and than claim it is some high price version that sells.
MDX has strongest brand equity in its segment. upcoming MDX type S will prove it as only MDX higher priced version like Advance/Aspec/Type S can hold value the strongest.

SamDoe1

No one wants the MDX either. It cannot offroad as well as a crappy Fiat. Buy Chevy, Ford, or Fiat instead.

SSFTSX

MDX is not production constrained. so i have more confidence in its quality and reliability as the firm making it is not money pinching on semi conductors.
All others are crappy brands cannot even publish monthly sales figures due to lack of confidence.

oonowindoo

How are these even related?

SSFTSX

so you are going to buy product from a firm that cannot manage inventory of critical parts at $50K price level produt. semiconductor is critical as it interact with software and software engineers are the highest paid in industry.

https://www.wardsauto.com/vehicles/h...mdx-production

High-Tech Training Key to ’22 Acura MDX Production

Associates trained for new tasks in a virtual environment using touchscreens that allowed them to practice on virtual elements before handling physical parts to install, says Acura training director Joey Sippe

oonowindoo

i will answer your question after you tell me how any of what you said have anything to to do with anything.

SamDoe1

No. I'm not going to buy a product with a sub par drivetrain.

YEH

Right, except when Honda gets the praise... lol

Quote:

expected to retain? have you looked at craigslist.

What's with you and trolling craigslist??

Only a complete DF would think CL has the answers.

The new G80 just launched before the end of the year, so there aren't enough used models to get any real data (which you avoid at all costs) on resale yet.

Quote:

some version of Kia and Hyundia that no one buys and than claim it is some high price version that sells.
MDX has strongest brand equity in its segment. upcoming MDX type S will prove it as only MDX higher priced version like Advance/Aspec/Type S can hold value the strongest.

That's easy to do when the MDX is really the only model in its segment (aside from the antiquated QX60).

And huh, for such supposed strong brand equity, Acura can't price the MDX anywhere close to the GLE or X5 (being a brand new model, the GV80 is already closer in pricing to the Germans), and Acura had to put heavy incentives on the hood of the MDX to move them the past several years.

There were prospective Telluride SXP buyers who were pondering whether to pay a considerable mark-up (you like to cite the bay area, even if incorrectly - and more than 2 years after launch, bay area dealerships still have mark-ups of $7k and up on the Telluride), wait 8 months for an order or maybe get an MDX (which, with discounts, was considerably cheaper than the Telluride SXP) even tho they really wanted the Telluride.

Heavy incentives on the MDX (usually Acura's best selling model) is a big reason why Acura's incentive spending in relation to ATP was among the highest - up there with Buick and Infiniti.

Even after more than 2 years on the market and expanded production, the Telluride is still one of the quickest turning models (both new and used) - up there with the C8 Vette.


Funny that you have no clue that HMG and Toyota were the 2 automakers in the best shape with regards to chip supply, as they had both stockpiled chips (but even they are starting to feel the impact of the chip shortage).

Honda had already halted production at various plants around the world due to its chip shortage.


Again, HMG and Toyota were in better shape than the other automakers, including Honda.

https://www.motor1.com/news/495030/honda-halts-production-chip-shortage/

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/news/from-toyota-to-honda-how-global-chip-shortage-is-impacting-japan-s-carmakers-41612408342776.html

Honda cut back on production of the RDX; odd that they would cut back on what is still a relatively new model and one with higher margins than most of the rest of their offerings (guess we shouldn't have confidence in the quality and reliability of the RDX).

And in the spirit of the resident troll's asinine way of thinking - what a PoC the CR-V is... having just a tow capacity of 1,500 lbs, the lowest in the segment other than the Rogue.

Man, those Honda engineers are inept if they can't even engineer a compact CUV with a respectable tow load.

And the new Santa Cruz, despite being a segment size down from the Ridgeline, has the same tow load.

So much for Honda engineering... lol

SSFTSX

you have to look at payload capacity. Ridgeline has highest payload capacity in its class. Honda ridgeline is designed to outlast BOF Toyotas. It has highest range in towing. most spacious interior cabin. There is so much world beating in Honda Ridgeline for pickup introduced in 2017.
It is not some paid advertizement of H/K group.
RDX are plenty on dealer lots and there will be no constrained on supply. you will see it in April sales number. Those constraints supply is your excuse since 2011. Hyundai groupe cannot afford new factories in US. so always have to import.

Quote:

Hyundai to again suspend plant over chip shortage

Do you know Taiwan was built by Japanese technology. Taiwan first priority is Japan. Even the Enkei rims made in Taiwan.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

what kind of mickey mouse land do you live in!? lol

SamDoe1

The kind where his favorite brand cannot outperform a shitty fiat in basic driving tests.

YEH

Think MT was a bit harsh/nitpicky about the performance/handling...

The thrust of Acura's pitch, though, is really about handling. All that suspension and all-wheel-drive work should pay some real dividends, but it doesn't. The new MDX pulls 0.84 g on the skidpad, versus the previous model's 0.85, but that's a paltry difference compared to the figure-eight result. That test measures acceleration, braking, handling, and the transitions between them, and the new MDX was way slower than before. With a 28.6-second lap at 0.60 average g, it can't hold a candle to the old model's 27.1-second lap at 0.65 average g.Here at MT, we believe the way a vehicle feels to the driver matters as much or more than the numbers it generates on the test track, and the test driver's notes do say the MDX felt sporty and even power oversteered off the corners. Maybe there's something there, after all? Only if you drive it like you're at a racetrack.

On the road, the overwhelming impression is one of adequacy. The 2022 MDX gets the job done, and that's about it. There's nothing about the way it drives on real-world roads, straight or curvy, that's sporty or even memorable. It's extremely competent, sure, but it has no soul. The steering is numb, and the way the body moves is controlled to the point of feeling robotic. It never gets into a groove. The torque-vectoring works, making the handling more precise, but not more exciting.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...t-test-review/


But they are on the ball about the interior comfort/appointment.

Roomier rear accommodations are welcome, but passengers are going to be underwhelmed by the seats. A hard, flat, unsupportive third row may be industry standard, but it's disappointing in the second row. Being a "premium" brand rather than a traditional "luxury" brand cuts both ways. It allows Acura to sell its vehicles for significantly less money than the old-school luxury brands, but it means costs have to be saved somewhere. Acura mostly has the balance right, keeping the interior very quiet, offering a bangin' sound system, and loading up on the latest tech.

There are misses, though, in the little details. Acura's "Milano" leather looks and feels less rich than the leather in luxury competitors, and the textured plastic trim between the bits of real wood and metal looks like something from a Honda Civic.

Compare it to a Honda Pilot and you see a lot of style and tech advantages for not a lot of extra money. Compare it to an Audi Q7 and you understand why the true luxury brands are so much more expensive than the premium ones.

SSFTSX

first Aspec has not same interior as Advance. and certainly Acura Advance better interior than base Audi Q7. so i am not sure what they are comparing it.
Acura does not sell cheaper than Audi when look at equipment and trim levels.

oonowindoo

Acura is Premium Economy and Audi/BMW/Mercedes are Business class.... deal with it... that is the reality whether you like it or not.

YEH

Only in your own mind...

From MT's interior review of the MDX.

But that the MDX has outdone itself is no surprise—the real question is whether its cabin rivals other luxury three-row SUVs. Does it? Short answer: Even in the range-topping Advance model we drove, NO. Long answer: Read on.

And a proper lux model shouldn't have such a chinzy interior, even for the base trim.

Do not see similar complaints about the interior of the base GV80; if anything, the reviews have been stating that the GV80's interior transcends the class.

And don't Acura's interior designers know that all that gloss black at the front is tacky and looks cheap?

It looks cheap in the new Sorento, so goes doubly so in what's supposed to be a premium model.

SSFTSX

unless it some special version. the standard interior is not much better than Acura. This magazines have nothing else to write. Honda/Acura does not put grass infront of them as Honda/Acura sells by itself.

Acura use very expensive nosie reducing rims. There is no impact of brake dust even on chrome rims. Its real quality that is test of time. MDX faster than 2.5T GV80.

SamDoe1

^ That's a Q7, not a G80 and it most definitely has a better interior than any crappy AWD Acura product that cannot defeat a shitty Fiat.

YEH

Major reason for lower (than expected) Genesis sales (aside from the GV80) for the 1Q.

Incentive spending as % of ATP for the 1Q of 2021.

Genesis -3.8%
(2nd lowest after Porsche)

BMW - 8.4%

Lexus - 11.3%
Acura - 12.1% (was 15% for the 1Q of last year)
Infiniti - 16.5%.

So, despite the new TLX and for part of the Q, the new MDX - Acura's incentive spending is still on the high side for the industry.

Appears that Genesis is being stingy because they want to cull the weaker dealerships.

Not good for Acura when the lowly new Civic has a more upscale looking dash than Acura products.

SSFTSX

Civic is new product built for global markets. so R&D much more versatile. Acura are built for more limited North American market.

You are making excuses ahead of time for falling sales of Genesis that cannot keep with Acura despite 3 RWD sedan and SUV with multiple engines
MDX and TLX still with One Engine.

You dont get embarrassed making same excuses for past 10 years?. If Hyunndai/Kia has real profits the will make bigger and more dealerships for Genesis at better locations.
used car prices are appreciating. My TSX with sport package is now worth $15K after 13 years driving it. while Genesis in less than 3 years become less than half.

No other mainstream premium brand has such resale value.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...314662112.html

2014 Acura TSX Sedan 4D sedan White - FINANCE ONLINE - $17,590

SamDoe1

^ The only one that should be embarrassed is Honda/Acura who can't even make a car that will compete well against an old Fiat.