oonowindoo

I think there is enough of Genesis for now.

Now, go compare Tesla with Acura in Tesla's thread

SamDoe1

I waited for you in Moab for 4 days so you could show me how awesome Honda's AWD is but you didn't even show up. Guessing it was to avoid embarrassment of being single handedly defeated by a crappy old Fiat.

NBP04TL4ME

Could you imagine the hilarity that would ensue if it was announced that Genesis and Honda were merging (or one was acquiring the other?)

YEH

Not only are you demented , you're a serial liar as.well.

There wouldn't be nearly as many posts about Genesis here if you didn't continually post your rubbish (unlike your false claim, Genesis resale value continues to climb, esp. with new models like the GV80) for which I have to debunk.

Furthermore, who's the one who continuously trolls craigslist to find Genesis used car listing?

There have been times when I haven't posted here for weeks (even months), but you feel the need to post about Hyundai sales in China (what does that have to do with Acura in any way?) or about Hyundai recall (funny how you don't seem to post in the thread about Acura recalls).

You even posted negative stuff about Korean battery makers, LG Chem and SK Innovation - which have nothing to do with HMG aside from being 2 of their many battery suppliers; LG Chem will be supplying the batteries for the future Honda and Acura electric crossovers that GM is building so how stupid was that?




No one is getting embarrassed here but you, the resident fool.

With the GV70, Genesis should get around to the 6k/month sales mark.

Took Genesis about 5 years to hit the 500k worldwide sales mark; should hit the next 500 in less than half that time.

But let's get back to Acura sales - still not close to Acura's high water mark and barely holding off brands like Cadillac (and Cadillac, at least sells good volume in the $70k+ market with the Escalade having an ATP north of $100k).

SSFTSX

Honda Legend, Honda Accord, Honda Inspire are called Acura RL/TSX/TL in NorthAmerica.
so dont spread that BS of domestic Korean market of higher Genesis sales. when Honda were using different badges.
GV70 will be worse than GV80 which is stagnating in dealer lots.

This lane assist and distance pacing cruise control, smart entry was first introduced in Accord Euro.



who want to ride on 22inch rims?

pttl

Dude...you're OBSESSED!

SSFTSX

Hyundai didnot have BOF like Toyota so why even bother with V8. now they are dropping after very limited sales. As i said only Honda can make right decisions.

Honda was also right to wait for its own Solid state batteries post 2030. Not jump for limited production lithium.

https://www.explica.co/new-2022-gene...-liter-v8.html

New 2022 Genesis G90 Says Goodbye to Hyundai’s 5.0-liter V8

G-7 Drops Aim to Shift New Car Sales Away from Oil By 2030 - Bloomberg

G-7 Drops Aim to Shift New Car Sales Away from Oil By 2030

YEH

Um, because they had a flagship and midsize lux sedans - something that Acura never had (man, you really are obsessed with Genesis).

The Tau V8 went into production in 2008, so it had a nice run.

With the ever more stringent emissions and displacement regs/taxes, lux automakers are no longer investing in V8s.

In lieu of a V8, there will be an all-electric G90 as the top spec.

Acura was already behind when it came to turbo 6s (nevermind not having a V8), and now it's going to be behind when it comes to electrics.

But hey, Acura is getting used to it; now behind mainstream brands when it comes to performance...

The TLX getting spanked by the K5.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rqod8gs-BlY

SSFTSX

Its good Genesis is now out of V8 business just like selling factories in China. it barely sold V8 vehicles. it is not like Lexus GX that consistently sells the most V8 vehicles.
who will buy Electric G90 with $100K price tag? It will sell less than V8 Genesis.
K5 is lighter and larger engine vehicle.
As i said Honda vehicles are built long life. it takes a while for engine to open up. How many times i will point out this thing and you not get embarassed?
2018 Civic Type R smoked Hyundai Sonata N Line. (same vehicle like K-5). and that is even short distance advantage for Sonata N Line and Sonata N Line is consider lighter vehicle.

pttl

How many times will you say things like this and "YOU not get embarrassed"?

This is because without a LSD, the Sonata NLine/ Kia K5 GT cannot get their 290 HP to the ground. It's simple physics.

SSFTSX

It also simple physics of not comparing 4000lbs vehicle with 3500lbs vehicle especially when later has bigger engine.
where is the torque of bigger engine ?
Civic Type R is also with 20inch rims to pull enormous G forces. As Honda engine get older the performance gap gets wider. thats why Honda/Acura has highest resale values.

YEH

The Tau V8 has a 25% take rate for the G90 in the US (in Canada, it's all V8), with the G80 bring higher.

The Genesis sedan had an unheard of 40% take rate for the V8.

Shouldn't you be more worried about H/A?

The JDM Odyssey and the Legend being canceled.

One thing for sure, Genesis has sold more V8 equipped vehicles than Honda/Acura has sold the Legend/RLX. Lol

And why the heck are u comparing the Sonata N-Line with the CTR?

Different size classes and ones not a full-bore performance trim?

Put it another way, the CTR would be just another mainstream model in a long line that embarrasses the TLX.

SSFTSX

Why you comparing Kia K-5 to TLX. they are in different weight class?
CTR weight is closer to Sonata N line and CTR even has larger wheels. imagine CTR with 2.5T engine. It was 2018 CTR that beat 2021 Sonata N Line.
You are person living in lala Land. Only in your imagination Genesis sold more V8 than Honda Legend/RLX
These are all bankrupt ideas just like Genesis electric that no one will buy.
Dublin Genesis still has 18 GV80. Sales stagnating in first 6 months.
https://www.dublingenesis.com/

SSFTSX

Arrival of Type S.will further decrease sales of GV80.

pttl

YEH

Are you really that much of a dimbulb?

Unlike the CTR (compact hatch), the TLX and K5 are both midsize sedans within inches of each other (104.6" vs 193.1").

It's not Kia's problem that Honda made the TLX a fat pig.

And unlike the TLX, the K5 can actually seat 3 adults with relative comfort at the rear.

Meanwhile, the TLX is more cramped than much of the compact lux competition - which, btw, pitting a midsize sedan against the compact lux segment is the hallmark of what VALUE brands do.

Again, the CTR is the full bore performance variant of the compact Civic hatch.

The Sonata N-Line is a performance-light trim of a midsize family sedan.

By that measure, why don't we compare the EV6 GT against the CTR?

It would not only destroy the CTR, it would handily beat the NSX.

And again, so what if the CTR beats the Sonata N-Line?

No one expects the N-Line to win.

That just makes another mainstream vehicle (CTR, Sonata N-Line, K5 GT, Accord Sport, etc.) which can beat the TLX 2.0T.

isn't it sad that Honda's compact hatch can destroy the base engine of Acura's flagship sedan? Lol

Forget the TLX trying to compete against the lux competition, it can't even hold off the mainstream offerings.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but most buyers looking at the top trims of the GV80 wouldn't give the MDX much thought as it is nowhere as luxurious.

And what do you mean by further?

Over the past 3 months, GV80 sales have increased from 1.6k to 1.9k to over 2k, as Genesis has been able to increase allocation for the US market.

The MDX has had zero impact on GV80 sales as Genesis sells every one that gets shipped over.

For the prospective buyers who ended up getting something else (couldn't wait that long, couldn't get the color/trim combo they wanted or will unwilling to pay a mark-up), they ended up getting an X5, GLE, etc., the MDX really not being in the picture.

The top 3.5TT Prestige trim is still going for above MSRP and there's a 4-6 month wait for orders to get filled.

It says it all when the MDX is more apt to get compared to the Telluride SXP or Palisade Calligraphy than the GV80 or the Germans (and when it does get compared to a German, it's usually the FWD Q7).

Heck, the compact GV70 tops out higher than the MDX - that's what happens when you are the VALUE play.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

GV80 is an SUV.. so in your words...WHY YOU COMPARE SUV TO CAR?

SSFTSX

It is weight of the car that decide class of car not the lenght.. Go to California DMV. The License fee is based on Weight and FMV.
Kia is light weight crap.
TLX is luxury car for wealth families that multiple vehicles at home.
TLX is designed for luxurious ride all the way to Ski trips and mountains curves on beach roads. It has particular function. It is not for Uber or Lyft type rides.
CTR engine is 6 years old. and it has no problem dispatching newer 2.5T engine vehicle to dustbin with ease.
CTR is same weight and performance class as N Line vehicles. Price has less than 10% difference.
NSX and CTR are highly reliable vehicles. the older they get the better. Electric vehicles are done after few runs. They eat tires due to overweight.
Acura sedan has nothing to with CTR. one heavy AWD system for snow and curves.
Do you know how much used CTR cost in Germany?
No Hyundai or Gensis can charge such money unless its V8 vehicle with 10 year warranty and massage seats. That is Honda brand power.

TLX is as fast as BMW 530 with all season tire setup. thats all it matters. infact Accord 2.0T is faster than BMW 530i. Put 19inch all season tires on BMW 530 and see how far its trap speed goes..






Genesis dealers are located in locations where people with money will not even go there.. Think a little harder you will get the answer. MDX is bench mark of Premium SUVs and dealership experience comes with it. All dealership locations are at the most expensive areas.
Richmond Genesis has 7 GV80 on lot.
https://www.genesisofrichmondca.com/...htm?model=GV80

YEH

^ Why do you always come up with the dumbest arguments?

What does age have to do with anything with the Sonata being a midsize sedan and the CTR being a compact hatch, and a full bore performance variant at that?

Now, if Hyundai stuck the 2.5T in the next i30N and it can't beat the CTR (but it would), then you would have an argument.

The ATP for the luxury segment is $57k and Genesis is right around that mark.

The ATP for Acura is about $15k lower.

Again, the ATP for the Telluride is higher than for Acura. lol

Only in your deluded mind is the premium, not luxury, MDX a benchmark. LMAO!

Yeah, the 13th ranked MDX (C/D) is such the benchmark - it can't even break into the top 10.

oonowindoo

I wasn't gonna get into this non-sense but damn... let me go find SOMOENE ANYONE who would pick Accord over a BRAND NEW BMW 530i if given a choice.. because "it is faster"

Sorry i can't find anyone who is that stupid.

YEH

You wouldn't find this type of thread/subject on a GV80 site.

https://www.mdxers.org/threads/acura...-luxury.40518/

Acura has long been regarded as "near luxury" by the press. I agree with them. If Acuras weren't based off lesser equipped Hondas, that might help their case for not just being a "premium" over Honda.

A true luxury brand will also have a proper flagship luxury sedan that's so luxurious that the back seat is just as comfortable and full of bells and whistles as the front seat. And have a big powerful engine as well with loads of the latest automotive technology all over the car. BMW 760iL, M-B S65 AMG, Jaguar XJR, Lexus LS600hL...these are real flagship luxury cars. The Acura RL? Nice car, but not in the same league.

Acura postioned itself as a near Luxury brand that values reliability and performance over "luxury" amenities (real wood, etc) and gives you the best bang for the buck. They then tried to move upmarket, getting rid of the lesser vehicles (RSX, etc), differentiating themselves from Honda more, developing a V8, raising it's prices, and developing vehicles that are not as much based on the Honda product (RDX/CRV). Then the bottom fell out of the economy and they cancelled the V8, lost some buyers due to the price increase and for some reason came out with the ZDX. So they haven't been able to really make much headway moving upmarket.


https://www.mdxers.org/threads/is-ac...ry-car.174281/

I would still call Acura a near luxury SUV. The MDX does live in a unique world of being more sporty and has more standard features compared to everything else in the same price range. You will be looking at luxury SUVs with 4 cylinder turbos at the same price of the MDX with a V-6.

The short answer is "no", Acura is not a luxury brand (however you may wish to define that term). At best, Acura is Honda's niche in the North American near-luxury market. It does not compete head-to-head with the likes of true luxury brands (both in terms of features and pricing) like Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus. It may have started out, like Lexus (and perhaps Genesis today), as a challenger to the German luxury brands in the early '90s with its Legend line of vehicles. However, today it's main differentiator is value, not luxury. More to the point, it does not really compete across the board with a variety of luxury vehicles like the Germans and Lexus; while it markets some sedans, it is mainly an SUV manufacturer, where the vast majority of its sales are made. That said, from my experience it is a good, reliable product for the money that should serve its owners well.


https://www.mdxers.org/threads/is-th...-luxury.12112/

Acura is entry-level Luxury. Not MB or Lexus, more Volvo and Saab. But it is still my favourite automaker in the world (except perhaps, Audi).:2: :4:

These days, the MDX is seen as a lower cost alternative to the XC90.

Longtime Acura/MDX owners keep hashing this argument and even those who think the MDX is luxury agree that it still is not up to par with the Germans.

SSFTSX

As i said you will find plenty of comments on Internet about everything. It does not change the fact MDX provide luxury experience in ride quality, noise suppression and dealership location.

Only Acura has brand power that not give free maintenance or longer warranty.

oonowindoo

How is that a fact?

Stunna and Comfy are beating you in your own game. I suggest you to start finding Youtube videos about how superior Acura is instead of posting useless pictures.
Get with the program, it is 2021.

pttl

how can you expect to be taken seriously?

That's called arrogance and stupidity.

SSFTSX

The picture alot for those who understand. The Civic Type R really smashed Hyundai 2.5T despite it was not even higher speed competition where Honda aerodynamic magic works. Honda just need to be older engine.

YEH

Let's compare apples to apples for once.

The RDX A-Spec got a slow 6.6s 0-60 time by C/D.

The byline to the article was this - 2019 Acura RDX A-Spec Delivers Value, Not Speed

Again, that Value word.

MT got a slightly quicker time of 6.4s.

The T4 GV70 is slated to do it in 5.3s, more than a second quicker.

The GV70 also blows away the RDX when it comes to lux and tech; also beats the larger MDX in those depts, which is partly why the one segment down GV70 goes higher in price than the MDX.

And the T6 GV70 is slated to hit 60 in around 4.8s and the electric GV70 will probably get close to 4s.

Speaking of plant closures, Honda is closing its legendary Sayama plant - the original home of the Accord.

This is the first closure of a Japanese auto plant in 30 years .

Sayuma also manufactures the Legend.

Needless to say, Legend sales have been slow, and by that mean, very slow.

Honda only sold 250 of them last year, worldwide. lol

Even the Japanese don't give a rat's arse about the Legend/RLX.

Genesis sells a good bit more V8 models every month.

And like had stated prior, Honda in Japan is basically a small car specialist - kei car accounts for 65% of the sales and the B-segment Fit/Freed/Vezel accounts for another 20% of sales.

With the demise of the Clarity and JDM Odyssey, Honda will pretty much be only selling small cars (mostly kei) in Japan.

Nissan is also leaving the larger/higher-end car/sedan market in Japan.

Nissan was the one Japanese brand who could kinda challenge Toyota with the President, Cima and Fuga, but now it's pretty much Toyota by itself offering higher-end models for the Japanese market.

Contrast that with HMG in Korea.

Top sellers:
1. Grandeur
2. Carnival
4. Sorento
6. K5
7. G80
8. K8
9. Sonata
10. K8
12. GV70
14. Santa Fe
15. Staria

Just like Acura in the US, Honda in its domestic market is the purveyor of VALUE transport.

Acura has so much brand power that it doesn't even exist in its domestic market, and barely sells outside of the US..and Canada where it is seen more as a premium brand (than luxury) and the value play.

In contrast, Genesis is now in every major lux market aside from Japan (but hey, that's no biggee when Acura isn't available there either).

YEH

Even just for the US, if Acura had do much brand power, why can't they charge higher prices (and not sell without so much incentive spending) and sell more higher-end models so that their ATP isn't at the bottom?

Even trailing Infiniti by about $10k. Lol

Yeah, they have so much brand power that their flagship sedan competes in the compact segment, and their flagship CUV gets hammered for not being luxury, and is outclassed by the one segment down GV70 in terms of luxury, tech and price.

SSFTSX

Are you stupid that keep mentioning random tests and no engine and tire siz/ tire type. RDX is taller and more spacious vehicle. and by tall mean the whole beltline is tall than pos design wannbe Macan aka GV70
RDX has best ground clearance in its class. RDX is demo.
remember only Honda can make reliable and high resale value vehicles all the way when they are over 10 years old. so Acura dealers can keep repeat sells and service them over decades. thats how dealerships are in super expensive areas and same size or bigger than brands with higher sales like lexus or BMW.

20inch tires win over 19inch tires. think over it.

SSFTSX

Go figure out what color is this one.

SSFTSX

Quote:

Speaking of plant closures, Honda is closing its legendary Sayama plant - the original home of the Accord.

Alteast they are closing older plants like the one in Europe and Japan. There will be fundamental change in supply chains when we entering into hybrid/electric vehicles.
Hyundai in China closing much newer plants and unable to built in new plants in US.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

what does color have to do with anything. stop being wasict!

YEH

Pretty asinine coming from the dullard trying to compare the CTR to the N-Line. Lol

The GV70 and RDX are direct competitors and about the same size (unlike the CTR and N-Line).

A couple of inches in height and an inch difference in tire size isn't going to make a whole lot of difference (definitely not over a full second!) when it comes to performance, and it was Honda's decision to give the RDX that height and tire size

Speaking of being a more spacious vehicle, the Sonata is exactly that - much more compared to the CTR (and yet, the dullard that you are - wants to compare them and then cry foul like a whiny baby just because of the immaterial difference btwn the GV70 and RDX).

Quote:

CTR weight is closer to Sonata N line and CTR even has larger wheels. imagine CTR with 2.5T engine. It was 2018 CTR that beat 2021 Sonata N Line.

2020 CTR
Curb weight - 3,118 lbs
Height - 56.5"
Tires: Continental SportContact 6, 245/30ZR-20 90Y XL

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.9 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 5.9 sec


2021 N-Line
Curb weight - 3,541
Height - 56.9"
Tires: Continental PremiumContact 6, 245/40R-19 (98Y)

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 5.0 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 5.2 sec


2021 TLX SH-AWD
Curb weight: 4026 lb
Height - 56.8"
Tires: Michelin Primacy A/S, 255/40R-19 96W M+S

C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 5.9 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 6.5 sec


1st off, the weight.

The CTR is not anywhere close to the weight of the N-Line (can't you get anything right?).

In fact, there's almost the same disparity in weight btwn the CTR and N-Line as there is btwn the N-Line and TLX SH-AWD.

423 vs 485 lbs.

And yet, despite that weight disadvantage, the N-Line nearly matches the CTR in 0-60 - 5.0 s vs 4.9 s and handily beats the CTR with a roll-out - 5.2 s vs 5.9.

That's pretty amazing for a significantly larger vehicle that weighs over 400 lbs more and isn't equipped with an LSD.

If the N-Line were equipped with an LSD, (which it should have been), it would smoke the CTR.

Now, the TLX has a slightly higher weight disadvantage comparatively, but it has the advantage of traction
/getting the power down to the wheels with AWD.

But it's not even close (like btwn the CTR and N-Line) - 5.0s vs 5.9s and that gets even worse with a roll-out - 5.2 s vs 6.5 s.

With a roll-out, that's 1.3 s slower, an eternity in the automotive world,

This is going against a FWD which doesn't have the benefit of either an LSD or AWD.

Honda has no one but itself to blame for turning the TLX into a bloated pig.


You think Honda would be closing their plants if they sold any volume in Europe or if the Legend, etc, sold better?

There is such a thing as updating and modernizing a plant.

Hyundai closed its oldest plant in China, but that doesn't take away the fact that the boycott has hurt their sales there; as had stated many a time, they never should have overextended themselves in a market rife with political risk.

But in lieu of that, HMG has the leading or one of the leading market shares in India, Russia, Brazil and Mexico.

Aside from the impact of the chip shortage, all of Hyundai's plants in Korea are going full-bore (even the oldest one).

In fact, they don't have enough capacity to meet the demand - which is why they are looking to expand production here even further.

We all know you have said plenty of stupid things, but this is among the dumbest...

Quote:

It is weight of the car that decide class of car not the lenght.. Go to California DMV. The License fee is based on Weight and FMV.

So, the category in which the Ioniq or Niro compete in changes whether it's the hybrid, PHEV or BEV powertrain? Lol

The EPA categorizes vehicles based on interior space - which also isn't exactly the best way - where you have compact hatches listed in the same category as full-size flagship sedans.

SSFTSX

These results are irrelevant as they are not of 3 years old CTR.
you are too dense to yet to understand this point. how long i am spoon feeding you this point?
this is not even some high quality tires. the same crap.

2.5L engine is 6 years newer and 25% bigger.

That was 3 years old CTR. 3 years old Hyundai crap are sold at the backwater used car dealers. There are some around Hayward aond Mission.

LSD not make iota of difference when you cannot match the higher speed.
See Honda Accord with only 252bhp engine and performance closer to CTR. imagine Honda Accord with 306bhp and sport tires. LSD not make a difference to Honda vehicles. it is only for fans.
255 width tires on heavy noise reducing 19inch rims wont make difference. as i said go to real engineering school and dont spread misinformation and as you have no understanding of things.

As i said bring it on when that pos is 3 years old atleast.

Honda and Japan knows some things that small countries like Korea will not know.
You cannot update old plant. There are plenty of old industrial plants around world but Tesla choose to spend $10B on Berlin Plant. and still not in production. total will go up to $20b if they want to scale to 500K vehicles. and that only for one vehicle and battery not the flexible manufacturing system of Honda.
Korea is alot more depended on Chinese and Russian airspace to access to Europe and Middleast. just give it a time.
Hyundai was force to buy old GM plant in Russia.
Only Taiwan can make advance logic chips and those chips will be first replicated in Japan. Production excuse is as old as you came to this form.

Honda is in business of standardized high quality vehicles. Hyundai is copycat of Germans. but Germans have whole Euro system under control they can afford to create unreliable vehicles but not Korea.

ttribe

Pretty sure only SSFTSX takes SSFTSX seriously, at this point. Maybe YEH does, too; it's hard to tell.

SSFTSX

Every owner of Hyundai group vehicles will have to deal with this reality. Making mass market vehicles Germanic way. end up making a zoo in dealership with overflowing cars and long wait times. Genesis will go bankrupt with at home servicing once it reach certain volume of older vehicles.
Edmunds not smart enough to know why they have to spend so much time waiting at dealership for what essentially is oil change and inspection.
https://www.edmunds.com/kia/tellurid...erm-road-test/





This Honda Express service. done in an hour.
https://www.edmunds.com/honda/passpo...erm-road-test/

pttl

^ this guy...

oonowindoo

Dude... if you making it sound like none of us has ever been to do a dealership.

We ALL have been to Honda dealership.. and i can tell you.... 1 hour my ass.

SSFTSX

It was Edmunds experience and they deal with dealers far more than any individual.
YEH cannot get ass off from computer so all day babbling about Brazil/India/Russia/Japan without knowing the cost of investment. Russia got Hyundai engine plant with only 200K sales.
you need this kind of unclutter environment even dealership outside main city.



This is fact that high unreliability's / recalls with lack of investment in dealer infrastructure will make consumer more and more turn off from Hyundai/Kia/Genesis.
This wannabe Germanic crap without the dealership standards.

Cars with less than 1000 miles are ending up in Non Hyundai dealerships.

oonowindoo

You never disappoint us.

00TL-P3.2

The crowded Honda service area, parked in the sun, as above.
Or, the air conditioned, non-crowded (any of the many times I've been there) Mercedes dealer where the svc adviser greets you by name & has a complimentary loaner available in under 30 minutes.