ELIN

Besides the difference in pricing, Genesis traditionally has relatively mediocre residual values so leasing them sometimes doesn't make as much sense as a Benz or even Acura.

What is an "effective lease cost"?

SSFTSX

Also top line of Genesis comes with 22inch tires. Not many will prefer with this size of tires. so most sells will be in mid range of $55K 4 cylinder.

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/02/15/...#slide-2291960
The TLX is different in that it has a bespoke platform that is not shared with any other Acura or Honda vehicle,” Acura says. “This approach was adopted to meet the high dynamic targets [for the Type S], and unique powertrain [the 3.0T V6] and drivetrain applications [SH-AWD] that required a different platform from the Accord.”

YEH

True, but residual values/$ factor has been rising, and Lexus execs have admitted it has been difficult for them to compete with Merc and BMW lease rates with regard to their RWD models.

ELC incorporates the down payment.

Take the Telluride for instance, Kia is not offering good lease deals on the Telluride despite used Tellurides going for MSRP (or even above MSRP), because they don't have to.

YEH

Of course, you're gullible enough to actually believe the marketing spiel that the platform is all-new.

So Honda is going to spend all that money (developing an all-new platform is one of the costliest undertakings an automaker makes) to develop an "all-new" platform for a low volume sedan? Lol

If they were going to spend that kind of $$, they mind as well have developed a RWD platform, instead of trying to make a FWD platform ape RWD proportions.

Automakers use the basis of an existing platform, etc. - make substantial changes to it and call it new all the time.

Heck, Lexus is trying to pass off the refreshed (2nd) IS as being basically new.

And sorry to deflate your erroneous claims once again.

65% of GV80 pre-orders were for the V6, with the top Prestige being in most demand.

Not coincidentally, 65% of builds for the Telluride have been for the top 2 trims (EX and SX, and usually with the Prestige package), which is why the Telluride's ATP is higher than Acura's.

SSFTSX

Are you an engineer that you can identify old and new platforms?
This car Type R limited edition cost $45k but there is billions of dollars engineering experiance behind it. It can pull over 1.06G on 245 width tires. which no RWD can achieve with such width of tires.
The amount of structural and strength analysis when implement different engines weights, wheel base, DWB suspension and safety into one package with Acura reliability. that no vehicle can match.





your pre orders are joke. Look at Genesis Richmond and Genesis Dublin. they have cars on lot GV80. if there were thousands of orders. there wont be a single car on lot. Try find MDX Aspec and MDX advance. how many you can find on lots

Knight Rider 357

I'm Joker? Nothing I said is a "joke". You think this still FWD transverse platform for the new TLX is all "new" and not just a modified version of the same FWD transverse platform they have been using for Accords and TLX's? It is marketing nonsense that this platform is all new just for the TLX. Acura vehicles have been compromised for being FWD transverse based for decades and the excuse to not do a RWD platform was it was too expensive, they save money sharing it with Honda Accords so you really think they are going to spend all that money to design a brand new platform but still make it a compromised FWD transverse platform just like a common Honda Accord, why would they do that, spend/waste all that money on the same compromised results? Honda's and Acura's have been using DWB suspensions for decades, their cars were not really wide or heavy in the past, they did not suddenly get narrow and really lite when they took away DWB either. They did not need a brand new ground up platform just to accommodate DWB suspension on the new TLX, they already had it on the RLX, they modified a Accord platform for the new TLX and then tried to say it was brand new ground up design, if that is the case that is really embarrassing with what the results were.

Knight Rider 357

Exactly, no way would they spend all that money on a brand new ground up platform to still make it compromised FWD/transverse. They would have went RWD/longitudinal to finally be competitive, not have to try to mask the looks/compromises of FWD/transv if they were spending all the money on a brand new platform just for Acura/the TLX, its FWD/transv because it is related to the Accord and other Honda platforms and so they can continue to share most components.

YEH

^^^ Unlike for you, common sense dictates that it doesn't make any sense for Honda to spend the typically $1 billion+ it takes to develop an actual all-new platform, esp. for a relatively low volume model like the TLX.

What Honda considers to be a bespoke platform and not a common one can differ quite a bit from what other automakers think/claim

...To get some clarity on strategy, we reached out to Acura. The answers are multifaceted, but Acura says it's spending money where it pays dividends for performance — but there's also more sharing between models than it might look like on the surface.

“The definition of what constitutes a 'common platform' varies by automaker,” Acura exclusively told Autoblog during a wide-ranging e-mail interview involving the input of numerous engineers and product planners. “For us, the most fundamental value is to maintain the same carry points throughout production and enable us to produce different vehicles in the same manufacturing environment.”


Mercedes can easily claim that the chassis of the V8 AMG C Class is bespoke, having more structural rigidity and bracing (esp front) and different suspension bits from the mundane 4-cyl Class (the chassis in the base engine C Class cannot support the V8 and drives/handles quite differently from the AMG).

Lexus can claim that the RC's platform is new (think they did), but it's actually a Frankenchassis - sharing the front end of the GS, midsection from the XE20 IS convertible, while the rear componentry is from the XE30.

So, while one can certainly say that it's a bespoke chassis, it's not really new.

YEH

As usual, you're too dense to understand that 65% of the pre-orders were for the turbo 6, and people who ordered are waiting to get their powertrain, package and color combo in.

During the past 2 months, Genesis has been selling about 1,500 GV80s in the US, which is pretty much its monthly allocation.

Only 2k GV80s currently are built for export - around 1,500 for the US and the rest for Canada, Russia, the Middle East and Australia.

And ooh - Genesis of Richmond has a whole 3 GV80s listed and Dublin, 12 (some of which are likely phantom listings as one has to check for availability).

SSFTSX

yeah they can add 500kg weight to Accord and pass all the safety, reliability and emission test.
Acura has developed NSX. Honda has Type R built in UK with British Pound equal to 1.4 dollars. It is not some cheap East European country product.
FWD vehicles drives better, more spacious lighter in weight by Honda standards. Honda if developed RWD car will be even heavier, cramped and drives worse than current TLX.
As i said. these are Honda standards of measurement.
do you even know what you are writing about?
This guy saying buy Honda generators even at twice the price of competitors. This is called Honda standards.

SSFTSX

If there are 1500 GV80 sellling per month. than All three sedans are not selling much better than TLX alone. just wait one or two months.

Knight Rider 357

That makes no sense. How do you know a RWD Honda developed TLX would be heavier, more cramped, drive worse then the current FWD TLX? It is almost impossible for that to happen because RWD vehicles aren't compromised like FWD trans ones when it comes to proportions, balance, handling in most cases, it can't really get any more cramped then the current TLX despite how big and heavy it has gotten and past RWD Honda/Acura vehicles like the S2000 and NSX were very good, light, handled much better then their FWD counterparts.

SSFTSX

old S2000 and NSX does not meat current safety standards. nor the reliabilty of dealing heavier weights. RWD eat tires much faster. this non standard size front and year tires use to generate handling another stupid shit.
Currrent NSX need much much wider tires to have practically similar handling as Honda Civic Type R despite Type R much taller vehicles. You have complete lack of understanding about FWD platforms. so better not continue.

YEH

The G80 outsold the G70 last month (as had predicted it would); you think Genesis makes more on G70, G80 and G90 sales in the US or Acura with the TLX? Lol

(Acura doesn't make much selling the tarted-up Civic, esp at the volume it's selling at).

And unlike for Acura, Genesis has a very healthy market for its sedans (well, the G80 and G90) in its domestic market.

Last month, Genesis did 11.5k in sales in Korea.

That's 3k more than what Acura did in the US.

And only 1k of that was for the G70, so 10.5k was for vehicles higher in price than something like the TLX.

Combined with US sales (which will continue to grow), that's around 14.4k in sales.

Acura models (badged as Hondas) don't really sell in Japan, so we're talking not much more than the 8.5k of volume that Acura did here.

The major reason why the G70 doesn't sell better is because of its cramped rear; gee, I wonder what the new TLX has in common with the G70?

YEH

Sure I do, since I don't live in a bizarro world like you.

The TLX is as heavy as RWD sedans in the midsize segment (if not heavier), but only has as much space as a compact (on the smaller end at that).

If Acura had gone with RWD (which they had plans for in the past), they could have offered the same amount of interior space in a smaller package, and hence, at a lighter weight.

Furthermore, with RWD, wouldn't have to rely on the SH-AWD to be the bandaid for being FWD-based, so would have performance/handling chops without having to add AWD (which adds weight).

So, the company that was able to develop the original RWD NSX (which was very lightweight for its time), would have trouble doing so for RWD sedans (when others are doing so)?

Geeze, you're a dim bulb.

SSFTSX

show me Genesis sales on website?. dont pull numbers from rear.

Korea is artificial market. once China and Europe put there own semi conductors. You wont see Korean vehicles again. You have no idea what is happening.

G80 just came. It will have same fate as G70. TLX in second year will get much improve once people see it on road. Japan vehicle market still 3 times size of Korea. and Japan has technology that is free from US ITAR. Thats reason Honda will sell more and higher priced vehicles in China.

S. Korea's household debt highest in world in comparison with GDP

S. Korea's household debt highest in world in comparison with GDP

SSFTSX

TLX is heavy by Honda standards?
My 2009 TSX FWD is 3500lbs and that vehicle has 17 inch rims and meet only 2008 safety standards.
2005 Acura RL t weigh 4000lbs.with 17inch rims.

original NSX belong to 1990s standards of safety and reliability. try hit same curb with 2009 TSX and 1991 NSX. you will feel the difference in quality. one will not even need alignment but others will need entire suspension change.

SSFTSX

it is coming and will not have to deal with fires. Honda quality and reliability. fully tested.

ELIN

^^^^^
CRV SH. So basically the death of Acura?

F23A4

It looks like a Chinese market vehicle which will never see the light of day in North America. Potential chance of the technology hitting the RDX though.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

there are a few documented cases on acurazine of MDX's catching fire after parking them.
Acura tested....
Didnt Honda shack up with GM anyway for electric vehicles?

SSFTSX

honda has invested in Chinese CATL and just like 50% of Iphone supply china in China. Honda can rely on GM supply chain as long as final product Honda/Acura reliability, quality and safety standards.

This thing goes 300 miles range with prices top at $24k. first affordable SUV capacity.



https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-t...ranscript/Well, Honda, we mainly focus on HEV, and so we have been trying to introduce such EVs in 2030 globally. We want to electrify two-thirds of the models that we'll be selling. But meanwhile, to accelerate electrification into the different regions, we have to deliver Honda like products which carry identity. And therefore, in North America, we collaborate with GM.

In China, we are -- have an alliance with CATL. And also including our own EVs, where appropriate, we will choose the best approach there we believe is needed. And so last year,radio said that Honda will enter climate neutral in 2050. And we need to accelerate these efforts to achieve this goal.

Knight Rider 357

You clearly have a lack of understanding. You are comparing cars that are 20 and 30 years old to a current Honda Civic Type R, its apples and oranges. Plus you are comparing cars that in their day competed with and beat Ferrari's, Porches, Corvettes, BMW roadsters to a tarted up economy car that does not come close to outperforming Ferrari's, Porsche's, Corvettes, BMW roadsters, etc. Are you really trying to say FWD trans is superior to RWD because staggered tires in some RWD cars don't last that long or they need wider tires to handle all the power/performance? The Civic Type R is nowhere near is quick nor has the potential of a current NSX, those 2 cars could not be further apart, you sound foolish trying to compare them and even trying to say the Civic Type R is better. You clearly have a lack of understanding about FWD and RWD platforms, all the people that do understand them put the real performance cars and racing applications in RWD platforms. I guess you think you know more then Gordon Murray and he really should have made the F1 a FWD 4 cylinder hatch over a mid engine RWD 12 cylinder, same with his new car coming out, guess you think you know more then all those race car builders and Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Lambo, BMW, McLaren, Pagani, etc and they are all doing it wrong, they should be basing everything on a FWD econo hatch with a 4 cylinder because that is somehow superior to their RWD cars with 6, 8, 10, 12, 16 cylinders.

SSFTSX

Do you even understand what you wrote?
NSX of 1990 model Year in Current dollars will cost $150K. while Civic Type R cost with current safety and quality standards cost $40K. which is more comfortable and spacious?
Those ferraris and Porsche dont pull high gs when you put same size tires as FWD vehicle. FWD platorm is inherently superior.
Honda has 2nd highest R&D in Japan with 1/4 of Vehicle offering of Toyota. This tell you how deep there knowledge goes per vehicle.

Knight Rider 357

Your arguments are nonsensical. What are you arguing, rarer exotic or sports car with a high price tag cost more then a hopped up econo hatch and you save more money going with the econo hatch? Everyone knows that, that is not the point, it is pointless to bring up. You sound like someone who is bitter there are expensive cars out there they can't afford so you just try to make them out to be a waste of money or you live in a little bubble and think your Civic Type R is the best car in the world and nothing is better. Why even try to make such a silly argument?

Who cars about G's and same size tires, it is another meaningless argument, with larger tires those Ferrari's/Porsches/NSX's are designed to utilize they outperform the Type R and just about all FWD cars in pretty much every metric not to mention they are much nicer, much better looking vehicles in pretty much every way aside from hauling groceries or having people in the back. You are simply lying and telling fairy tales if you try to say compromised FWD transv platforms are inherently superior to balanced RWD platforms, why expose yourself as being so wrong and clueless. FWD trans is mainly utilized for the past few decades because it is cheaper to make/package especially in smaller cars, there are some minor fuel economy benefits if executed properly and in most but not all cases it allows more rear seat passenger room especially in smaller vehicles. It is not utilized because it is the best solution for a high performance car, handling, racing applications, or a luxury car. The reason the Civic Type R is priced at 40K is because it is much cheaper and simpler to engineer using a FWD platform already in use in mass numbers along with so many shared bits, not because it is the most superior way of going about it when it comes to performance/handling/racing.

SSFTSX

Civic Type R limited Edition is best car for $45K. and it will be even better at $150K.
if FWD Civic is built for $150K price tag. it will have far better qualities than all the so called exotic cars of $150K. You simply compare cars of different prices points. it is superiority of FWD platform that even at $40K its handling is closer to supercars despite far skinner tires and taller ride height.

00TL-P3.2

$150k Civic

oonowindoo

Well let's put 305 in all 4 corners on a CTR and see how it performs... that is apple to apple comparison right?

YEH

Unlike your dumbarse, don't pull nos. from there.

For someone who spends the time pulling/trolling obscure listings of used Genesis models, your midget brain should be able to find the nos.


And yet H/K increased their market-share in NA, Europe, India, Russia, Australia, etc.

Most of those markets, Honda has been losing marketshare or is a non--entity.





The above just further shows that all you are capable of is citing articles without really knowing/understanding the issue at hand.

While Japan has 3x the pop. as SK, SK's auto market is more lucrative.

At times, SK has been the largest market for German sourced E Class and the S Class, and German sourced 5 Series and the 7 Series.

That's the reason why BMW built it's 1st Driving Experience Center on Asia in SK and not China or Japan.

When you look at the best selling vehicles/models in Japan, they are mostly low margin, cheap small vehicles.

Unlike in Korea where the Grandeur has been the best seller, with other large/more expensive models like the Carnival, Palisade and G80 being or having been in the top 10.

There have been months where Genesis moved 8k+ G80s in Korea.

Sure makes the 1,300 TLX's Acura moved here last month seem like small potatoes.

And yeah, many households have a high debt load - most of the pop. lives in 3 major urban areas (nearly half in the Seoul metro area alone, which is expensive).

But that also has to do with the income/wealth disparity.

SK has the 10-12th (depending on source) largest economy in the world, but a disproportionate % of that goes to the elites.

And it's only gotten worse during the pandemic, where sales of lux vehicles over $100k have skyrocketed (Porsche being a big beneficiary).


Things aren't so rose over at Honda.

Automotive News reported the profit margin at Honda's automobile business was just 0.8 per cent for the last nine months of last year, down from 2.9 per cent the prior year.

Cars have only accounted for only 18 per cent of Honda's total profit so far this Japanese financial year, whereas motorcycles represented 52 per cent of the brand’s profit – with a healthy 12.1 profit margin, Automotive News reported.


C/D just published their Editors' Choice list.

Every Genesis model made the list (the upcoming GV70 should continue the streak).

Zilch for Acura (and Lexus).

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a35536605/2021-editors-choice/


According to iseecars, the GV80 was the 3rd quickest turning model, with an ATP of nearly $65k (would be even higher, but the top 3.5T Prestige trim is in short supply).

The G80 is 12th, with the Telluride 5th (Telluride having an ATP of $43k, which again, is higher than Acura's).

Not a single Acura, much less Honda model on the list.

https://www.iseecars.com/fastest-selling-cars-study#v=202101

YEH

Acura is recalling nearly 53,000 units of its mid-size TL sedan due to a risk of engine fires. The federal government's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Honda, Acura's parent company, recently announced the recall, which includes the luxury brand's base-level 2008 TL sedan and its sporty 2007 and 2008 Type-S variants.

.
Why Are Honda CR-V's Catching Fire?

Mr. Elder's vehicle was one of at least 60 new CR-V's nationwide to catch fire suddenly while on the road. In most cases, the vehicles had just been serviced for their first oil changes.

So far, the investigation has yielded nothing but finger-pointing, with Honda blaming dealerships for mishandling oil changes and consumer groups accusing the automaker of dodging responsibility.


https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/12/b...hing-fire.html

.
Honda recalls 2.1 million vehicles worldwide over fire risk

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-honda-recall-idUKKBN19Z1L0


Every automaker has its issues, so singling one out is something only a complete dumbarse would do.

oonowindoo

Meh.. waste of time... the fire is due to Honda's superior BHP...

If you want the superior bhp, hot as fuck is just the by product.

ttribe

Wow. You're still at it? I'll give you credit for dedication, that's for sure.

SSFTSX

She has only example from 20 years. Doesnot realize that latest computer technology assure against such major defects.

Chinese have realized it.

https://www.wardsauto.com/vehicles/h...mdx-production

High-Tech Training Key to ’22 Acura MDX Production

Associates trained for new tasks in a virtual environment using touchscreens that allowed them to practice on virtual elements before handling physical parts to install, says Acura training director Joey Sippel.Joseph Szczesny | Jan 14, 2021

SSFTSX

All i wanted you to show me MDX Advance and Aspec SH-AWD models on dealer lots? how many staying on dealer lots. same with RDX Advance and Aspec SH-AWD models.

oonowindoo

The more important question should be how many of those model/trim you wanted to see have been delivered to the dealer?

If none was delivered, the none will exist..

YEH

Of course can't refute a single thing...

Let's see how the resident fool tries to spin this.


C/D TEST RESULTS - MDX V6
60 mph: 6.4 sec
100 mph: 17.6 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 6.6 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.6 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 5.2 sec
1/4 mile: 15.1 sec @ 112 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 112 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 170 ft

C/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 16 mpg
75-mph highway driving: 22 mpg
Highway range: 400 miles


C/D TEST RESULTS - GV80 2.5T
60 mph: 6.1 sec
100 mph: 16.0 sec
130 mph: 34.3 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 7.0 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.4 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 4.5 sec
1/4 mile: 14.6 sec @ 96 mph
Top speed (C/D est): 140 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 163 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.86 g

C/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 16 mpg
75-mph highway driving: 25 mpg
Highway range: 520 miles

Only category where the Acura beats the Genesis is at the rolling start.

Curb weight: 4514 lb
Curb weight: 4814 lb

Can't beat the GV80 in just about every acceleration metric or braking despite a 300 lb weight advantage.
But even beats the MDX in the highway fuel economy test by 3 mpg, which is partly why the GV80 can go an extra 120 miles on a tank.

ELIN

Don't forget the GV80 also saved Tiger Woods!

SSFTSX

Did you look at 5-60mph.?
They already mentioned they could not properly tested it the skidpad as weather not right.
Just wait a bit more. there is no way that 10speed Auto Honda/Acura is going to be much slower than the orginal 9speed auto. and Honda engine takes a while to open up.

SSFTSX

This what C&D consider measuring stick. MDX beat over 311 ft-lb Genesis GV80 in this yard stick. and consider GV80 is overpriced by $5K for lesser performance and higher unreliability with non-existant third row. it will have impact on residuals and certified pre-owned sales.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-maintenance/
In the real world, the hybrid seems quicker than the standard CR-V, and its quicker 5-to-60-mph time bears that out.

YEH

You're all too entirely predictable (and pathetic).

Well knew that you would gloss over everything else and just pick out the one performance metric where the MDX beats the GV80, which is why had already posted this...

- Only category where the Acura beats the Genesis is at the rolling start.

You even quoted me on it, and yet you still missed it (like you do pretty much everything).

And the performance metrics that are most important are the passing times (for 50-70 mph, the MDX is a whopping 0.7s slower) and braking.

And you can't even talk about your precious fuel economy.

Pretty much all engines need time to break-in to open up,. so another moot point and pathetic attempt at a lame excuse.