Acura: RLX News
02-23-2006, 10:09 AM
#1081
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I think the RL's problem isn't the lack of a V-8; its more on the lines of brand image and price. Most Acura's still have the feel, look, features of a Honda whereas most Lexus' are clearly distinguishable from Toyota by leaps and bounds. It's just not at the level of Lexus as an independent company. Where would consumers find the value in purchasing an Acura then when its pretty much similar to its counterpart, Honda?
-Justin
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02-23-2006, 01:25 PM
#1082
6 Forward 1 Back
Originally Posted by MSZ
One more thing...Legend Sedan costed around 50k CND in 95, which was = 26k in USD at that time. I still can't believe what Shawn S posted.
02-23-2006, 01:37 PM
#1083
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Originally Posted by MSZ
And you like the current one more? The RL grill looks closer to the last gen Odyssey than a Accord. Give me a damn break.
but never mind the LOOK its just personal taste.I think it has to do with my NOT able to accept a US$45k HONDA TODAY, I can accept a 45K ACURA.
So if I am asked to to choose between Honda Legend for 44K and RL for 45K, everything else being equal, I pick RL even for 1K more.
same idea applies to Toyota vs Lexus
Last edited by huckleberry; 02-23-2006 at 01:39 PM.
02-23-2006, 01:56 PM
#1084
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Acura just needs to make better styling, better engine performance like find a way to put all a lot of torque and muscle in their engine while stilll having great fuel efficiency something that Infiniti engines are weak in. Also, Acura needs to take risks and chances in their car styling. I'm sick of their weak conservative ho-hum styling. It stinks and it's boring.
I like my TSX and the TL, but that is their most exciting designs, but yet still it's not ooh and ahh eye catching style unlike the new IS250/350, GS430, G35 coupe, and M35/45. My friends still say it looks like a Honda and so do my parents and ex-gf.
I like my TSX and the TL, but that is their most exciting designs, but yet still it's not ooh and ahh eye catching style unlike the new IS250/350, GS430, G35 coupe, and M35/45. My friends still say it looks like a Honda and so do my parents and ex-gf.
02-23-2006, 01:58 PM
#1085
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
And i'm sure Ford outsells Acura by a good margin also...and your point is wah?
And whatever your point is, it doesn't make RL sales #s look any better.
And whatever your point is, it doesn't make RL sales #s look any better.
2) It doesn't appear as if his post was aimed to make the RL sales look any better, he was simply responding to a post from someone who obviously didn't know the sales comparison between the 3 Japanese marques.
Besides, I have a feeling that if Infiniti sales > Acura sales, the Nissan camp would certainly turn it into a point of relevance.
02-23-2006, 02:50 PM
#1086
6G TLX-S
Man, the car needs a V8. How good is a 290 HP V6 motor powering a 4000 lbs butt-heavy, power-robbing AWD car ?! It definately needs a big V8 to get some decent accelerating numbers to compete in its market and price segment. It would have been fine to use the V6 if the RL was RWD and made of light-weight aluminium construction.
02-23-2006, 03:34 PM
#1087
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Is the RL and NSX the most HP cars that Acura/Honda has ever sold to the public? If it is, that's kind of sad.
When will Acura/Honda bring out a car with 350hp?
When will Acura/Honda bring out a car with 350hp?
02-25-2006, 12:04 AM
#1088
Acura has many problems.
1. No flagship. For a luxury brand you really need a flagship car. That currently is missing from Acura. Acura needs a 7 series level car. Lexus was smart. It came to US with a flagship car along with an entry level car. The LS started at sub 40k with a 4.0L V8 on the LS400. Through out the year lexus was able to move the car up in the price and image. Acura failed to move RL up.
2. Too many car that compete with Accord/Camry price range. Why would people want to share a dealership that is full of RSX/TSX owners. TSX/RSX erodes Acura's brand image.
Acura's more expansive car is a mid level 5 series competitor and majority of the sale are at entry level luxury or family price budget. Hence no one that shops for luxury car will really consider Acura as a luxury car.
Most importantly, the RL simply don't cut it as a product that would entice people to buy. RWD is image of luxury car simple as that. No V8 simply another strike against Acura.
Acura needs better products at top end, much better dealership, and improve ownership experience. To have dealer be packed by owners of TSX/RSX does not really promote a luxury brand.
1. No flagship. For a luxury brand you really need a flagship car. That currently is missing from Acura. Acura needs a 7 series level car. Lexus was smart. It came to US with a flagship car along with an entry level car. The LS started at sub 40k with a 4.0L V8 on the LS400. Through out the year lexus was able to move the car up in the price and image. Acura failed to move RL up.
2. Too many car that compete with Accord/Camry price range. Why would people want to share a dealership that is full of RSX/TSX owners. TSX/RSX erodes Acura's brand image.
Acura's more expansive car is a mid level 5 series competitor and majority of the sale are at entry level luxury or family price budget. Hence no one that shops for luxury car will really consider Acura as a luxury car.
Most importantly, the RL simply don't cut it as a product that would entice people to buy. RWD is image of luxury car simple as that. No V8 simply another strike against Acura.
Acura needs better products at top end, much better dealership, and improve ownership experience. To have dealer be packed by owners of TSX/RSX does not really promote a luxury brand.
02-25-2006, 12:16 AM
#1089
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Originally Posted by chiawei
..Why would people want to share a dealership that is full of RSX/TSX owners. TSX/RSX erodes Acura's brand image.
...................
To have dealer be packed by owners of TSX/RSX does not really promote a luxury brand.
...................
To have dealer be packed by owners of TSX/RSX does not really promote a luxury brand.
you don't like the looks of a fat accord... 
02-26-2006, 10:04 AM
#1091
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I agree that the front end is mildly aggressive while the back end of the car is a snoozer.
The interior is nice and AWD is a must for the RL ... FLAGSHIP. Yes, whether you like it or not, it's Acura's top-of-the-line.
More features, or reduce the price. It's that simple. If the car was $40K, no one would be complaining.
Whining about the TSX here isn't going to make anyone any friends!
And just because the Temple of VTEC believes that the RSX is going doesn't mean it's gone yet.
The interior is nice and AWD is a must for the RL ... FLAGSHIP. Yes, whether you like it or not, it's Acura's top-of-the-line.
More features, or reduce the price. It's that simple. If the car was $40K, no one would be complaining.
Whining about the TSX here isn't going to make anyone any friends!
And just because the Temple of VTEC believes that the RSX is going doesn't mean it's gone yet.
02-26-2006, 10:53 AM
#1092
Burn some dust here
I still don't understand this logic toward AWD. You do not need AWD in your top model to have success in the luxury sedan market:
S-Class = Offers it in lower models
E-class = Offers it in lower models
7-series = No AWD option
5-series = Offers it lower models
XJ = No AWD option
LS430 = No AWD option
GS = Offers it in lower models
M45/35 = Offers it in lower models
Based off of the competition, Acura should leave the RL as is and drop the price to around $43,000-$45,000. Then, develop a 4.5-5.0L V8 to put in a new "upper" RL.
Ex. New RL System:
RL 3.5 - $43,000(RWD) - $45,000 (AWD)
- 290hp 3.5L V6
- Keep car the same except offer RWD for less money
- Only option is Tech Package
RL 5.0 - $55,000 (RWD)
- 380hp 5.0L V8
- Tech package standard
- Upgrade interior (more leather, wood steering wheel/shift knob, etc.)
- Only option is a sport package (A-spec body kit, wheels, sport suspension)
S-Class = Offers it in lower models
E-class = Offers it in lower models
7-series = No AWD option
5-series = Offers it lower models
XJ = No AWD option
LS430 = No AWD option
GS = Offers it in lower models
M45/35 = Offers it in lower models
Based off of the competition, Acura should leave the RL as is and drop the price to around $43,000-$45,000. Then, develop a 4.5-5.0L V8 to put in a new "upper" RL.
Ex. New RL System:
RL 3.5 - $43,000(RWD) - $45,000 (AWD)
- 290hp 3.5L V6
- Keep car the same except offer RWD for less money
- Only option is Tech Package
RL 5.0 - $55,000 (RWD)
- 380hp 5.0L V8
- Tech package standard
- Upgrade interior (more leather, wood steering wheel/shift knob, etc.)
- Only option is a sport package (A-spec body kit, wheels, sport suspension)
02-26-2006, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jwong77
Hate to burst your bubble, but Acura outsells Infiniti by a good margin.
Last edited by 03TL-S; 02-26-2006 at 12:08 PM.
02-26-2006, 12:12 PM
#1094
Pro
Since when were Infiniti's really more expensive. With the exception of the brand new M, no one's put infiniti in that class with lex, mb, and bmw. not really anyway. The Q is a joke, the G35 was fast, but lacked refinement, and never came close to beating a 3series in any competition in any year from the media. They just stopped selling that pathetic I30 or whatever it was that they couldnt move out of the stores. the MDX will forever outsale the MDX and the FX, even though it is around 6 years old. The only one making any noise is the new M... the M before it made no noise whatsoever. Geesh, infiniti puts out one sucess and people want to call it a luxury brand? I think not. Honda > Nissan, Acura > Infiniti. Go pick up a wall street journal and read up on how much of an underpowered joke nissan has become. (no disrespect intended, of course)
02-26-2006, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger
Since when were Infiniti's really more expensive. With the exception of the brand new M, no one's put infiniti in that class with lex, mb, and bmw. not really anyway. The Q is a joke, the G35 was fast, but lacked refinement, and never came close to beating a 3series in any competition in any year from the media. They just stopped selling that pathetic I30 or whatever it was that they couldnt move out of the stores. the MDX will forever outsale the MDX and the FX, even though it is around 6 years old. The only one making any noise is the new M... the M before it made no noise whatsoever. Geesh, infiniti puts out one sucess and people want to call it a luxury brand? I think not. Honda > Nissan, Acura > Infiniti. Go pick up a wall street journal and read up on how much of an underpowered joke nissan has become. (no disrespect intended, of course)
Last edited by 03TL-S; 02-26-2006 at 12:21 PM.
02-26-2006, 12:21 PM
#1096
Registered Abuser of VTEC
Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger
Since when were Infiniti's really more expensive. With the exception of the brand new M, no one's put infiniti in that class with lex, mb, and bmw. not really anyway. The Q is a joke, the G35 was fast, but lacked refinement, and never came close to beating a 3series in any competition in any year from the media. They just stopped selling that pathetic I30 or whatever it was that they couldnt move out of the stores. the MDX will forever outsale the MDX and the FX, even though it is around 6 years old. The only one making any noise is the new M... the M before it made no noise whatsoever. Geesh, infiniti puts out one sucess and people want to call it a luxury brand? I think not. Honda > Nissan, Acura > Infiniti. Go pick up a wall street journal and read up on how much of an underpowered joke nissan has become. (no disrespect intended, of course)
02-26-2006, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by youngTL
If anything, Honda is the one who's smaller in the power department. HOWEVER, regardless of that, I would rather own a Honda product anyday. I don't like the way the Nissans are styled (interior), nor do I like the way that the 3.5L feels at high RPM.
02-26-2006, 12:26 PM
#1098
Pro
03, you make a good point about car of the year. BUT, be reminded that only new cars can win that honor. Secondly, acura does offer the TSX and the RSX. I suppose their price points do negate the luxury idea, but I think that those two are such niche cars that they honda/acura couldnt resist. Who are competitors to thse two? I cant think of any (except that new civic si to the rsx) I think infiniti has been pretty "moody" they've gone on ups and downs. The J30 was a really nice true luxury car with the comfiest seats I can remember. I'd definitely venture to say that it was more lux than the legend. However, you think about cars like that old G20, and it just makes you scratch your head
Last edited by TheAcAvenger; 02-26-2006 at 12:29 PM.
02-26-2006, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger
03, you make a good point about car of the year. BUT, be reminded that only new cars can win that honor. Secondly, acura does offer the TSX and the RSX. I suppose their price points do negate the luxury idea, but I think that those two are such niche cars that they honda/acura couldnt resist. Who are competitors to thse two? I cant think of any (except that new civic si to the rsx)
But back to topic, a cheaper RL may be a good move, but removing AWD and making it FWD will be a disaster. People will still buy a TL because it is about the same size and its styling is better
02-26-2006, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger
03, you make a good point about car of the year. BUT, be reminded that only new cars can win that honor. Secondly, acura does offer the TSX and the RSX. I suppose their price points do negate the luxury idea, but I think that those two are such niche cars that they honda/acura couldnt resist. Who are competitors to thse two? I cant think of any (except that new civic si to the rsx) I think infiniti has been pretty "moody" they've gone on ups and downs. The J30 was a really nice true luxury car with the comfiest seats I can remember. I'd definitely venture to say that it was more lux than the legend. However, you think about cars like that old G20, and it just makes you scratch your head
02-26-2006, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger
Since when were Infiniti's really more expensive. With the exception of the brand new M, no one's put infiniti in that class with lex, mb, and bmw. not really anyway. The Q is a joke, the G35 was fast, but lacked refinement, and never came close to beating a 3series in any competition in any year from the media. They just stopped selling that pathetic I30 or whatever it was that they couldnt move out of the stores. the MDX will forever outsale the MDX and the FX, even though it is around 6 years old. The only one making any noise is the new M... the M before it made no noise whatsoever. Geesh, infiniti puts out one sucess and people want to call it a luxury brand? I think not. Honda > Nissan, Acura > Infiniti. Go pick up a wall street journal and read up on how much of an underpowered joke nissan has become. (no disrespect intended, of course)
I hope you're not serious...
02-27-2006, 02:58 PM
#1102
6G TLX-S
The Infiniti Q was a major flop not because of the car, but because of its styling. The car is a technology wonder at that time, same as the Lexus LS400. The reason why the LS was a hit is because of its styling resemblence to Mercedes (or copying Mercedes) - the LS looked expensive and a big car needs a hugh grill to look expensive and overpower. However, the Q didn't have a grill, and therefore looked cheap except the price. Once a model line is ruin, it'll take forever for future revamps to rebuild its image, or better still, kill the line and invent a new one such as R or S or T for example.
I tried so hard to associate an expensive look for the RL but failed. I can never clear out the Honda (=cheap economy) look from my mind whenever a see a RL which is of course very rare on the roads.
I tried so hard to associate an expensive look for the RL but failed. I can never clear out the Honda (=cheap economy) look from my mind whenever a see a RL which is of course very rare on the roads.
02-27-2006, 03:28 PM
#1103
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger
They just stopped selling that pathetic I30 or whatever it was that they couldnt move out of the stores.
This is another example of no one wanting to buy FWD luxury cars. Ding. Ding. Acura. Does it ring your bell ? It is a big mistake on Honda's part by staying away from developing a suitable RWD platform for the luxury brand. Sure Honda is capable enough to build best handling FWD cars. But humans are illogical beings, and here Honda has failed to acquire the mindset of luxury car buyers when developing the luxury Acura line.
Also, there is a limit to how much horsepower you can put onto the front wheels of a FWD car and maintain good handling characteristics, without going to expensive and power-robbing AWD systems. The much cheaper and simpler solution is RWD platform. RWD cars can take 300, 400, or even 500 hp with ease. AWD system can then be ordered as factory option like Mercedes and BMW for the even bigger wallet buyers.
02-27-2006, 03:39 PM
#1104
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
because no one wanted to buy FWD luxury cars.
02-27-2006, 06:08 PM
#1105
Originally Posted by dom
I guess it depends on ones definition of luxury but last I checked the TL and ES were selling extremly well.
And it depends on what the auto mags say, and IMO there is definitely bias. Remember how everyone was ragging on the TL for torque steer? And that's with only a 3.2L engine. The new ES will sport a 3.5L driving the front wheels, and I guarantee none of the mags will bring it up. Just like there has been little noise about the Avalon driving the front wheels with so much power.
02-27-2006, 07:10 PM
#1106
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Originally Posted by phile
And it depends on what the auto mags say, and IMO there is definitely bias. Remember how everyone was ragging on the TL for torque steer? And that's with only a 3.2L engine. The new ES will sport a 3.5L driving the front wheels, and I guarantee none of the mags will bring it up. Just like there has been little noise about the Avalon driving the front wheels with so much power.
02-27-2006, 07:43 PM
#1107
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Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger
Since when were Infiniti's really more expensive. With the exception of the brand new M, no one's put infiniti in that class with lex, mb, and bmw. not really anyway. The Q is a joke, the G35 was fast, but lacked refinement, and never came close to beating a 3series in any competition in any year from the media. They just stopped selling that pathetic I30 or whatever it was that they couldnt move out of the stores. the MDX will forever outsale the MDX and the FX, even though it is around 6 years old. The only one making any noise is the new M... the M before it made no noise whatsoever. Geesh, infiniti puts out one sucess and people want to call it a luxury brand? I think not. Honda > Nissan, Acura > Infiniti. Go pick up a wall street journal and read up on how much of an underpowered joke nissan has become. (no disrespect intended, of course)
02-27-2006, 07:51 PM
#1108
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by phile
And it depends on what the auto mags say, and IMO there is definitely bias. Remember how everyone was ragging on the TL for torque steer? And that's with only a 3.2L engine. The new ES will sport a 3.5L driving the front wheels, and I guarantee none of the mags will bring it up. Just like there has been little noise about the Avalon driving the front wheels with so much power.
02-27-2006, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
The ES350 could have had the 306hp/277tq motor from the rear drive IS350 instead of the existing 272hp/254 tq motor. The only reason I can think of is the front wheel drive limitation on the ES which can't handle too much power while still maintaining proper balance inherited by all FWD cars. I have yet to hear a 300+hp FWD car that is praised for its sport car handling.
02-27-2006, 08:13 PM
#1110
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
The ES350 could have had the 306hp/277tq motor from the rear drive IS350 instead of the existing 272hp/254 tq motor. The only reason I can think of is the front wheel drive limitation on the ES which can't handle too much power while still maintaining proper balance inherited by all FWD cars. I have yet to hear a 300+hp FWD car that is praised for its sport car handling.
And that's what I meant in my original post. It's not so much that a FWD car can't be considered luxury, it's how that car is portrayed, either by the mags (which shape public opinions) or by the marketing dept. And when you have the two working in synergy, it doesn't matter (to the public) that a car is FWD; they'll still see it as luxury.
02-27-2006, 11:27 PM
#1112
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Maybe its because the ES is marketed/known as a soft comfortable ride, and people that buy that car, generally don't care at all about sportyness. The TL on the other hand puts some sport into the luxury so that's why people complain about it's FWD.
02-28-2006, 06:39 AM
#1113
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Originally Posted by SeCsTaC
Maybe its because the ES is marketed/known as a soft comfortable ride, and people that buy that car, generally don't care at all about sportyness. The TL on the other hand puts some sport into the luxury so that's why people complain about it's FWD.
I guess they still use tiny engines on their FWD models...no torque=no torque steer.
02-28-2006, 08:11 AM
#1114
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Dioesn't audi still sell FWD a4's and TT's?
I guess they still use tiny engines on their FWD models...no torque=no torque steer.
I guess they still use tiny engines on their FWD models...no torque=no torque steer.
02-28-2006, 08:28 AM
#1115
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by SeCsTaC
Maybe its because the ES is marketed/known as a soft comfortable ride, and people that buy that car, generally don't care at all about sportyness. The TL on the other hand puts some sport into the luxury so that's why people complain about it's FWD.
In general, the ES predisposition makes no pretense of sportiness and is invariably entry-level luxury focused; this has catered well to its base over the years.The nature of the TL forces it to compromise between luxury and sport....which it does better than any other front driver IMHO (I35, 6G Maxima and Lexus ES come immediately to mind).
02-28-2006, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by F23A4
^^^ In general, the ES predisposition makes no pretense of sportiness and is invariably entry-level luxury focused; this has catered well to its base over the years.
The nature of the TL forces it to compromise between luxury and sport....which it does better than any other front driver IMHO (I35, 6G Maxima and Lexus ES come immediately to mind).
In general, the ES predisposition makes no pretense of sportiness and is invariably entry-level luxury focused; this has catered well to its base over the years.The nature of the TL forces it to compromise between luxury and sport....which it does better than any other front driver IMHO (I35, 6G Maxima and Lexus ES come immediately to mind).
Lexus has their entry-lux split...for people graduating from "normal" brands to lexus, they can choose the ES (if they want a "camry" like experience) or the IS (if they want sport). Realistically though, I don't think the ES has any competition. The TL/3/G is a little more hardcore and rival the IS. The ES's competition is probably the Avalon, or even a topline camry.
02-28-2006, 01:43 PM
#1117
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by titan
Interesting enough, of yet to read or hear anyone say anything negative about the Impala SS's handling, and it has a 303HP, 5.3L V8.
03-10-2006, 08:38 PM
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This months issue of C&D on the RL...
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We hit the road and started piling on the miles. Unfortunately, after only two weeks and 3456 miles on the clock, we found ourselves at the dealer's door because the RL's sunroof got stuck with its rear edge open in the vent position. The dealer couldn't fix it [in time]...so we took the MacGyver route, spending $1.68 for the sticky silver stuff and duct-taping the thing shut.
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Back home at 5222 miles, we got our Michigan dealer to fix the sunroof...Just 600 miles later we found ourselves back at the dealer when the right-front window and outside-mirror mechanisms stopped working.
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Our first scheduled service was at 7032 miles...We were back at the dealer two weeks and 1400 miles after our first scheduled service...Two thousand miles later, the sunroof quit a second time. The dealer blamed it on a loose electrical wire. A month and a half and 5000 miles laters, we were once again enhancing our budding relationship with the man from Acrua. This time the side-view mirrors and both power outlets weren't working.
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Maybe we should have moved in with Mr. Acrua, because at just over 33,000 miles, the left rear headrest wouldn't stay up, the power outlets were once again on the blink, the driver's side washer-fluid nozzle needed realignment, and the [nav] system was rebooting itself while in use.
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We hit the road and started piling on the miles. Unfortunately, after only two weeks and 3456 miles on the clock, we found ourselves at the dealer's door because the RL's sunroof got stuck with its rear edge open in the vent position. The dealer couldn't fix it [in time]...so we took the MacGyver route, spending $1.68 for the sticky silver stuff and duct-taping the thing shut.
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Back home at 5222 miles, we got our Michigan dealer to fix the sunroof...Just 600 miles later we found ourselves back at the dealer when the right-front window and outside-mirror mechanisms stopped working.
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Our first scheduled service was at 7032 miles...We were back at the dealer two weeks and 1400 miles after our first scheduled service...Two thousand miles later, the sunroof quit a second time. The dealer blamed it on a loose electrical wire. A month and a half and 5000 miles laters, we were once again enhancing our budding relationship with the man from Acrua. This time the side-view mirrors and both power outlets weren't working.
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Maybe we should have moved in with Mr. Acrua, because at just over 33,000 miles, the left rear headrest wouldn't stay up, the power outlets were once again on the blink, the driver's side washer-fluid nozzle needed realignment, and the [nav] system was rebooting itself while in use.
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03-10-2006, 09:18 PM
#1119
styling on you
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California
Age: 34
Posts: 5,274
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Man, Acura just can't catch a break with the RL. Sales plummeting, heavy discounts, and now you have Car and Driver, one of the most popular automotive magazines buying a lemon RL! (Atleast I think it's a lemon since most users in the RL forums aren't complaining about most of the problems listed)