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Acura wanted a new Integra coupe, but it just wasn't possible.
By Chris Perkins Nov 22, 2021
AcuraThe new Acura Integra is the most divisive car to launch in recent memory. Some are happy there's a new affordable turbo manual sport-compact, but for every 1 of those people, there seems to be at least 2 mad that A) the design doesn't nod to previous generations, B) it's not a hardcore Type R, C) it's not a coupe, and D) all of the above. In response to these points, design is subjective, a Type S likely with Civic Type R underpinnings is coming, and a 3-door just wasn't possible. But not for lack of trying, per Acura head Jon Ikeda.
Acura's Integra Type R Is Special in Every Sense"The pricing is what we're looking at, and the entry point, and market behavior more than anything. And the numbers just don't play out," Ikeda told R&T at a preview of the new Integra in California last week. "We were trying the hardest to the very end with the manual Civic Si Coupe, and if we had that car [as a base], maybe we could have thought about something else, too. But the more you do things that aren't there, the more it gets out of the zone of what people can afford."
The Civic coupe was discontinued for the car's 11th-generation likely due to low sales of the previous 2-door. The new Integra is based on the Civic—as is the case with all previous Integras—and that limits what Acura can do with this 1. Ikeda is saying an Integra coupe is possible without a 2-door Civic to base it on, but it'd be quite expensive. Given that consumers have widely abandoned coupes, an expensive Integra 3-door would quite obviously be a losing proposition.
A 1994 Integra GS-R sedan. HondaIn today's world, where American consumers have largely moved to crossovers, offering a new 5-door liftback is still a bold move. Beyond the precedent set by 4- and 5-door versions of the 1st 3 generations of Integra, Ikeda felt it important to make the Integra a hatchback for the extra versatility it brings. Millennials especially want to be able to pack their car with gear for weekend adventures with friends, and Ikeda believes this broadens the car's appeal.
"I really believe the fact that we stuck with the hatch and the versatility that it brings is... we might be able to get a little bit more than just what the segment is putting out right now," Ikeda said. "We need to be able to reach with this car beyond our segment."
If you're doubting the Integra's credentials, Ikeda points out that at the heart of every Integra is a great Civic, which Honda has now. He also tells us that the car's chief engineer owned 2 older Integras. "I said, 'Why did you buy an Integra?' Ikeda recalled. "He said, 'It was a very cool car and I was young and I was excited.' I said, 'Well, you know all the ingredients already. Just make that, because that's what it is.'"
Ignore the Acura fanboy. Remind him that the TLX-S put down an impressive 287 Whp. Such precision crafted performance. My M40i makes over 400wHP with an autowerke downpipe and a stage 2 DME tune. @kuzdu M240i is over 500wHP with a few more mods on the stock turbo. B58 is no joke.
Hmmmmm sweet sound of the B58, one engine not to mess with. With a stage 2 fuel pump and Tune this car sprints to 500+ wheel HP without a hiccup. I got JB4 with some custom setting work with Terry, Catless downpipe, intake, Upgraded Fuel Pump and plugs to support the extra HP and a Stage 3 flash on the trans, I’m getting 25lbs of boost safely on the stock turbo and I’m sure with Bootmod or MHD I can hit up to 28. Dyno we are looking at 490 HP or more and the same torque to the wheels!! Check out slowspeed on youtube he’s pushing over 500whp on stock turbo stage 2 tune 😊 This car is no joke when you step on the gas you don’t know what hit you. Ran C63s AMG 43 45 whatever it is without an ease of pulling away by 3 cars or more and it wants to keep going. Thanks 04WDPSeDaN for the shout out I'm sooooo itching to do a pure 850 turbo and hit 700 whp i think that may be ample enough for daily driving lol.
If you're doubting the Integra's credentials, Ikeda points out that at the heart of every Integra is a great Civic...
Tell me you're just making a fancy Civic without saying you're just making a fancy Civic.
I mean could you imagine Lexus saying "If you are doubting the ES's credentials, at the heart of every ES is a great Camry."
Because nothing generates excitement like comparing your supposed performance luxury brand to it's mass-market sibling.
I mean, basing an Integra off a successful Civic isn't terrible - but I think it's something you just do, not brag about. It's the Civic that benefits from that association more than the Acura.
Or maybe in the case of this fiasco the Civic is like, "hey you don't need to mention that, I'm good...."
"The pricing is what we're looking at, and the entry point, and market behavior more than anything. And the numbers just don't play out," Ikeda told R&T at a preview of the new Integra in California last week. "We were trying the hardest to the very end with the manual Civic Si Coupe, and if we had that car [as a base], maybe we could have thought about something else, too. But the more you do things that aren't there, the more it gets out of the zone of what people can afford."
The Civic coupe was discontinued for the car's 11th-generation likely due to low sales of the previous two-door. The new Integra is based on the Civic -- as is the case with all previous Integras -- and that limits what Acura can do with this one. Ikeda is saying an Integra coupe is possible without a two-door Civic to base it on, but it'd be quite expensive. Given that consumers have widely abandoned coupes, an expensive Integra three-door would quite obviously be a losing proposition.
My issue isn't that it's a 5 door. It's that it reminds me too much of a Civic. How much more would this Integra cost if it looked less like a Civic, $3,000? The TLX doesn't remind me of the Accord and it starts at $37,500, so a less Civic-looking Integra couldn't be that much more, right?
I think they're falling into the same trap as with the ILX. It was based off the Civic and wasn't a coupe, yet sales were dismal.
What is Acura going to tell themselves if sales for this Civic Integra aren't where they expect it to be because they wanted to play it safe again?
If you're doubting the Integra's credentials, Ikeda points out that at the heart of every Integra is a great Civic, which Honda has now. He also tells us that the car's chief engineer owned two older Integras. "I said, 'Why did you buy an Integra?' Ikeda recalled. "He said, 'It was a very cool car and I was young and I was excited.' I said, 'Well, you know all the ingredients already. Just make that, because that's what it is.'"
Time to let this chief engineer go. I find it hard to believe his younger self would want this new Integra. I think he's lost touch with his younger self.
My issue is... what makes this integra? How is this any different than a new ILX if they had one? Just a hatch? If i recall correctly 4 door integra didnt have hatch.
The side profile looks like last Gen Hyundai Genesis coupe...
My issue is... what makes this integra? How is this any different than a new ILX if they had one Civic? Just a hatch? If i recall correctly 4 door integra didnt have hatch.
The side profile looks like last Gen Hyundai Genesis coupe...
My issue is... what makes this integra? How is this any different than a new ILX if they had one? Just a hatch? If i recall correctly 4 door integra didnt have hatch.
1st gen Integra was offered as a 5 door (4 door hatch).
That is too old... People who remember those Integra days wont be buying this new integra in the first place
Correction: i dont know who would wanna pay a premium for a 200hp 1.5L Acura. Integra or not. People didnt wanna buy ILX for the same reason.. dont understand what makes Acura think this is any different.
That is too old... People who remember those Integra days wont be buying this new integra in the first place
When I saw the news that they were bringing it back, I was looking forward to it and was considering it. But then they let me down. My fault. Should have kept my expectations low. Very low.
I figured it would be the last ICE car I'd purchase before everything went EV
My issue is... what makes this integra? How is this any different than a new ILX if they had one? Just a hatch? If i recall correctly 4 door integra didnt have hatch.
The side profile looks like last Gen Hyundai Genesis coupe...
^ yeah, somehow I expect to have a modern Acura interior similar to the center stackup and driver gauge cluster in recent TLX/MDX/RDX
That partial clamshell hood screams Civic, woulda thought secondary sheet metal woulda been more unique.
One thing we’ve been curious about the new 2023 Integra is what it looks like inside, as Acura had the near-production prototype’s cabin hidden behind blacked out windows during the presentation last year.
Now, thanks to IG user user derphound01 who originally shared a few photos with a user of the IntegraForums before providing the full set to us today, we have our very first look inside the pre-production model, though they might come away as a bit disappointing to some who were excited to see a more premium Integra.
That’s because it’s a bit too similar to the Civic from the angles we’re seeing here. The dash does have some stylistic changes though like hard edges and angles sloping into the asymmetrical center console. The door pockets don’t look as large and the center infotainment system seems ever so slightly better integrated than in the Honda.
The long but mostly fake climate vent on the dash of the Civic is gone for a more straightforward pair of vents. Nevertheless, this doesn’t look like the pseudo-luxury treatment that many have come to expect from Acura. The back seat looks like it could’ve come out of any random sedan on sale today. It’s possible too that we’re far enough out from production that we might not be looking at the final product.
After all, there’s still a lot left to be revealed about the Integra including just what kind of power it will make in base form. We know it’ll use the same 1.5-liter tubocharged four-cylinder from the Civic Si, in which it makes 200 hp and 192 lb-ft (260 Nm) of torque, but many are hoping that it’ll pack a few more ponies under the bonnet. We also don’t know how many trim levels there will be or which one of them might apply to the interior we’re seeing here.
Well, we generally knew that it was the second coming of the Acura CSX Type S. Honestly, I actually think the ILX did a much better job of separating itself from the 9G Civic.
Looks like it has a touch screen and not a dumb fucking touchpad so I'll give them props for that! Depending on what this costs it might be a good play. If there's ever a Type S or Type R model it would be even better.
I'll lay odds that the 2.5G TLX and 4.5G MDX will see the addition of touchscreen as well as the digital instrument cluster for upper trims on the former.
Good. It's about damn time. The dumb touchpad was a big reason we didn't even consider the MDX in our search. I'd like to meet whatever focus group they used that said it was a good design.
Well, we generally knew that it was the second coming of the Acura CSX Type S. Honestly, I actually think the ILX did a much better job of separating itself from the 9G Civic.
Wasn't the Civic a copy of the CSX, not the other way around?
The resemblence is even more striking when you look at the Si interior.
The whole shifter/center console area is a carbon copy of the Civic. If anything, I prefer the Civic's more because the Integra has the stupid piano-black trim.
Maybe I'm crazy but the Civic dash looks more upscale.
I'm in agreement. The long honeycomb vent running across helps to break up what would be a swath of boring flat plastic. I'm sure the Integra materials are going to feel better to touch, but the looks of it feels boring and empty. The big shiny plastic panel running across the passenger side reminds me too much of the Fiat 500.
I get it that luxury brands that were born from mass market auto makers (i.e. Acura, Lexus, Infiniti) will use common platforms. It only makes sense. But not differentiating them makes no sense. No one would every confuse a Lexus ES with a Camary. Or an IS with a Corolla. Or any Infiniti with a Nissan. Even the TLX is differentiated from an Accord. Mostly.
But to offer something that's supposed to be a "luxury" brand when it's just a slightly altered version of it's mass-market counterpart is lazy and uninspired. It's a miss. Not that the Integra will not have it's merits, but to make it so close to a Civic dilutes the brand at a time when they seem to be working hard to do the opposite.
I get it that luxury brands that were born from mass market auto makers (i.e. Acura, Lexus, Infiniti) will use common platforms. It only makes sense. But not differentiating them makes no sense. No one would every confuse a Lexus ES with a Camary. Or an IS with a Corolla. Or any Infiniti with a Nissan. Even the TLX is differentiated from an Accord. Mostly.
But to offer something that's supposed to be a "luxury" brand when it's just a slightly altered version of it's mass-market counterpart is lazy and uninspired. It's a miss. Not that the Integra will not have it's merits, but to make it so close to a Civic dilutes the brand at a time when they seem to be working hard to do the opposite.
"bUt ThE iNtEgRa WaS aLwAyS a CiViC", screams the fanboys
I half expect this car to be missing a digital dash because:
1) It has to be different from the Civic
2) The big brother TLX doesn't have one, and this car can't outshine it
3) Something about how real drivers prefer analog gauges because it's easier to read on the track.
I prefer the Si interior as well.. You know it is Si interior just by looking at it..
That integra looks like any 30k entry level interior... if anything ILX had better interior...
The problem with the Si interior is that the back of the car looks like it was transplanted from an entirely different car. It looks like they completely forgot the back of the car.
I am suspecting Civic Si would be $4-5k cheaper than this "luxurious" Integra... that is where the back of the car had gone
Also looking at the picture of the backseat in that Integra... it is not like you gaining much.... It does not even look like it has ambient lighting in the back...
For anybody who is trying to get their hands on the 2023 Acura Integra right when it comes out, this one’s for you. Instead of a normal launch, Acura is launching the Integra with a reservation list.
You’ll be able to reserve and pre-order an Integra online starting March 10. Of course, the reservation process still fully involves dealerships, as Acura states, “reservations handled by participating dealers” at the bottom of its press release.
Acura hasn’t revealed production details or even shown us photos of the Integra’s interior yet, but since it’s going to ask folks to reserve a car to buy, we suspect those details and photos will be coming soon. If you want a sneak peek, we got some photos of the partially-covered interior of the Integra Prototype. Pricing is just as vague as before, too, as Acura simply states that it “will start around $30,000.”
The actual website where Acura directs you says “supply will be limited” of the Integra. In today’s market, that very well may be true. However, the base Integra has never been, nor do we expect it to be, a limited-availability model. It’s an entry-level, sporty hatchback that will eventually be widely available, even if a certain level of hype makes them thin on the ground upon initially launching. Basically, don’t be fooled by the messaging.
If you do want to reserve one, Acura has a sign-up on its website that will put you on a list to be notified the second the reservation site goes live. There’s no suggestion that any deposit will be required to reserve a spot for now, but we’ll be looking out for details on that closer to the launch of reservations on March 10.
Now the question is whether the dealerships will actually let you buy your reserved car for sticker price and justify it now that Acura said "supply will be limited".
11-23-2021, 04:44 AM
Why the New Acura Integra Had to Be a 5-Door
A 1994 Integra GS-R sedan. HondaIn today's world, where American consumers have largely moved to crossovers, offering a new 5-door liftback is still a bold move. Beyond the precedent set by 4- and 5-door versions of the 1st 3 generations of Integra, Ikeda felt it important to make the Integra a hatchback for the extra versatility it brings. Millennials especially want to be able to pack their car with gear for weekend adventures with friends, and Ikeda believes this broadens the car's appeal.
I'm sooooo itching to do a pure 850 turbo and hit 700 whp i think that may be ample enough for daily driving lol.
When I saw the news that they were bringing it back, I was looking forward to it and was considering it. But then they let me down. My fault. Should have kept my expectations low. Very low.
