dom

Skwed or not, the Veloster is selling and should have been what Honda did with the CR-Z. We probably all agree that the CR-Z is a better 'sports' car than the Veloster. Now imagine the CR-Z with the Civic's 1.8 and an Si version with the 2.0L and of course rears doors, or at least one rear door.

Hyundai is proving the appetite for a small, sporty hatch is there. As long its usable.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

you mean the Cr-Z should be as practical as the Veloster...?? I think most Honda fans don't want a Honda Veloster....

Changes I'd like to see

1.) Optional back seats
2.) Hybrid is an optional powertrain choice
3.) Si/Type R version as an option with ~200hp and the right suspension and other hardware

dom

That is exactly what I mean. A practical CR-Z. With more power, at least optionally.

Honda mis-judged this market severely with that car.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Don't know if this is sarcasm, but the back seat in the Veloster is worthless. Anyone over 6' tall will be hitting the hatch glass. And if they move their head forward, they need to watch out for the headliner which is about 1" lower.

Yes, yes, and yes. The CRZ is a great looking car IMO. The drivetrain is what kills it for me, and many other people.

I honestly wouldnt complain if it were a 200hp hybrid engine, just as long as its relatively high revving. The torque numbers on that config, especially down low, would rival most of the turbo'd engines from other manufacturers.

dom

I think the lack of a back seat, even an almost useless backseat is as big or a bigger problem than the power train.

When I was 17-20 something, I usually went out with friend(s). Can't do that in a CR-Z. Kids don't care that they're banging their heads on the headliner and have nowhere to put their feet. They're just happy to get a ride.

Moog-Type-S

^^^ This.

YEH

So... looking like a dustbuster is "great looking"?

Costco

Hindsight is 20/20 but the consensus seemed to be that Honda couldn't make any rear headrests to comply with DOT standards hence the lack of a backseat. I agree with you guys but safety standards are different today as compared to....... nevermind.

dom

You kid but some over at TOV were actually blaming US safety standards as the reason for no back seats. Apologist's at their worst.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic....compared to the CR-Z, the Veloster is a bigger car and at least it can fit more than 2 people - even if it only has 3 doors and worthless back seats.

Elsewhere in the world, the CR-Z comes with back seats. However, they seem to be for pets rather than humans. I have a feeling if they want to have the back seats to be at least acceptable for North Americans, they would need to enlarge the car or alter the shape/styling somewhat. It will probably look too much like a Honda Insight by then....

I am still wondering why Honda didn't mate the IMA with a more powerful base engine, say, the R18 in the Civic or R20 in the ILX. With the R20, you get 150hp right away. Combined with a 10 to 20 hp motor, the car would be capable of 160hp and165lbft of torque. That would be a great base engine choice. The R series is also just as efficient as the L15, despite being more powerful. Other than Honda didn't want to invest in mating the IMA to the R series, as well as tax consequences in other parts of the world due to higher engine displacement, I can't think of other reasons.


Definitely, especially since most young people can probably only afford one car. They'd definitely want something a bit more practical.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Appearances are subjective, hence the "IMO" at the end of my post

Colin

It could be the expedient that the R doesn't mate with the IMA (for whatever reason) or that they don't want to put the effort into a engine and IMA that is scheduled for replacement. Personally, I find myself wishing for the bigger Civic/ILX hybrid motor/battery with the existing gas engine. IMO, this combo has a better chance of happening and you'd still see ~145-150 hp and a nice dose of torque.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I think the latter part of that statement is true.

Does the ILX use a larger L series engine, or is the R15?

Colin

Interestingly, the ILX uses (some version ) of all three current 4 cylinders: L15, R20 and K24.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I was referring to the Hybrid version specifically, but forgot to mention that part

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

You mean the engine is scheduled for replacement, or IMA?

Colin

Both sort of. Everyone knows that the ED engines are just around the corner and along with that, the new more powerful hybrid system. These will debut on the new Accord this fall and I'm sure the gas engines will be added as soon as they're available.

Not as sure about the 'old' IMA. Will the smaller cars continue to use the simpler, lighter system in conjunction with the ED? Or would Civic class cars ALSO get the bigger hybrid system? Either way, it seems as if there are powertrain changes on the way.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I personally think they should keep the IMA for smaller cars. I suspect the more powerful hybrid system will be much heavier than IMA and that's not good for smaller, lighter cars.

Yumcha

OMG...did anyone see Acura's retarded ad for the ILX?



Small image...but, it says: "The kind of car your dad would have driven if he hadn't had you."

What the fawk.

biker

x2

Belzebutt

Hmm... One must assume dad would have driven a nicer car if he hadn't had me? Nicer than whatever he was driving... while he had me, or nicer than what's he's driving now?

pttl

Let's see... ad line that were also considered by ack.

1. "Your dad likes boring cars."

2. "YOU ruined your dads life"

3. "YOU were a mistake...get lost."

Feel free to add to the list... oh wait....this isn't ramblings.

Costco

I heard the ad on TV, and was like "wait.... what?"

Acura's genius marketing department amuses once again. Just thinking about it makes me chuckle.

speedemon90

...but it got you guys talking about it huh

thats the whole point of marketing. To get you talking about it.

Yumcha

Sure, I'm talking about it...but, not going to buy it.

pttl

We're not really talking about the car. We're talking about the incredible stupidity of acks marketing campaign.

Edward'TLS

cmschmie

Saw the ad in Automobile.

So my Dad would have bought an entry level luxury car if I hadn't been born? Nice.

The marketing team forget to have someone with commen sense review that ad.

jwong77

lol, not really surpriseing, I mean is this really any worse than those shoes Addidas released that included chains and shackles?

speedemon90

you talking about might make someone else buy it well that is if you talked to someone about it outside of this thread lol. Since anyone that visits this thread already had the ilx in mind

phile

^ ain't going to be anyone who visits this side of AZ...

speedemon90

haha, my friend just bought one and i made him join this forum

Edward'TLS

Bought one ..... before or after your friend saw the retarded ILX ad ?

speedemon90

nope haha.

I told him to look at a lot of cars but not sure the ilx was part of it. Might have been

ParaSurfer1979

Do you really buy your cars by seeing a commercial or after driving it?

Edward'TLS

A whole bunch of the general public won't realize such cars are in existence, if not seeing them through TV commercials or reading a magazine ads.

Not everyone glues to the car forums and dissects every new car in details like us here.

ParaSurfer1979

Okay i follow what you're saying but most people don't join a forum like this until they own the car. Example... Why would I join an Acura TL forum to then never come here because i never bought a TL? Yes most read reviews, test drive, and personal taste. 80% of car buyers (50yo + & woman) buy a car because of its looks, mpg, and ride. The rest of us are forum members for the car they own because they enjoy enhancing the handling and/or squeezing every last bit of performance and mpg the car can give its owner. Thats just how I saw it when i sold HONDA/ACURA's at my local dealer. In fact that was why they hired me at the time. To bring more youth through the dealership because the needed someone like most of us that knows HONDAS/ACURA's internally to let those 20% know what could be done to squeeze more power out of the RSX, Civic SI, & S2000. Thos kids think oh the SI has "ONLY" 201hp it can't be all that fast when in fact in runs dead even to the VW GTI 2.0t at 0-60 (6.1sec) & 1/4mi (14.7@97mph). My point was that noone was there that knew hard numbers for their products.

Now this is where i follow your point on advertising. Honda does indeed need to do better with posting their estimated hard facts about their cars or posting quotes on performance numbers in the ads. You are dead-on. Consumors think that because the Civic or TSX has 201hp/170tq it must be slow when it couldn't be any more WRONG. The TSX 6spd does 0-60 (6.8) and 1/4 (15.3@92mph). Really not bad numbers but noone knows these facts but loyal enthusious' that subscribe to all the car mags or go test drive the car to be "nosey" (you know we all do it guys). The wasteful ads should be nerdy in flavor informing the consumor about everything in possibly can in the 30-60-120sec it has paid for. Those hard facts will get these consumors up out of their seat an into dealership so fast that they'll have no cars on the lot (which my dealership is having trouble doing).

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

I think you've missed my point.

My point is that most of the general public don't visit car forums on the internet, that's why TV commercials and magazine ads are very effective in telling all these people a new vehicle is now out on the market.

This is exactly why auto makers are spending so many millions of $ in marketing advertisements.

Sarlacc

They had one in the mall today. Even I admit it looks pretty good in person. I asked my wife if she knew what it was...and was surprised when I said a civic.

Personally...not the car for me. But perhaps there is a market for this thing after all...I still say acura has their heads up their ass in regards to what they are doing on the grander scale.

F23A4