Colin

I would even go so far as to say that for much of it's existence, the exchange rate was favorable enough for them to offer the kind of value that many automakers found hard to compete with.

phile

I don't see the Civic in anything other than the short rear trunk.

considering what they had as a base foundation to carve the ILX out of (see below ), I'd say Acura did an incredible job, really.

Legend2TL

^ Same here I don't see any Civic likeness in the ILX anywhere.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Agreed. It isnt anything like the Civic/CSX. Its pretty much a whole different car.

Edward'TLS

Acura has finally figured out that Acura entry-level car buyers aren't that stupid to pay premium prices for almost-identical Civics badged as an Acura car.

It didn't do it for the Accord/TL pair, and shouldn't have done it for the Civic/CSX pair.

ParaSurfer1979

The Civic receives a full refresh for 2013 year due to the look warm reception the 2012 Civic received by the media. We'll see what next years civic looks like before we can say this about the ISX. I think we'll end up see'g the R20 in at least the Civic EX/EX-L's and R18 still in the LX/LX-P's.

Crazy Bimmer

Video said it will be well below 30k..

Personally seems like a bargain for you get. Although I thought Acura was after the MPG game but this thing doesnt seem to get anything wow worthy in savings.

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

holy fudge muffin buttons batman, seriously I think the steering wheel needs more buttons, I prefer simple layouts, radio control and cruise control is all I need.

SSFTSX

Honda Civic EX-L Navigation cost $24,205.
Now add
HID
Paddle shifter
Smart Access,
Multi view Rear Camera,
upsize standard Rim.
Fog lights
Upgraded Navigation with ELS.
larger engine.
1 year longer warranty.
better interior & leather.
There is no mention of thickness of glass. I wonder how will be handling with large all season tires and underpowered engine.
I would estimate these things are $4K. so $28K will be reasonable asking price.
The only thing is weight. If this thing weighs over 3000lbs like Ford Focus. Performance will not be so good with 2.0L engine. Acura usually dont do MMC for 3 years atleast. unless things badly fall apart like TL. so dont expect any improvements.

Will Y.

I looked at some entry-lux cars-- A3, C30, etc.-- to replace the 3G TL, but they all had over 200 horsepower. I doubt that I'd now pay for an entry lux car with a 0-60 of more than 7 seconds.

Well, I'd say Acura did OK with the 2G TL, and pretty well with the 3G TL, although IDK that they were "identical" to the Accord.

MeehowsBRZ

Seeing those two side by side I have to take my statement back. Maybe it was the angle of the picture, production wheels, or color of the blue that made the ILX look Civic-ish in the other picture. Seeing those two together though, I have to retract that statement. Still, ILX doesn't roll of the tongue at all. Even calling it the ISX would be a great improvement.

phee

iTrader: (5)

RSX would have been good too

MeehowsBRZ

Any possibility they make a coupe version and call it that?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Good one!

Belzebutt

I will eat my hat if you can actually option an ILX with those wheels.

Moog-Type-S

Bargain?

I think you can get more all around from engine/powertrain, to tech/options in an Optima for the same price.

phile

yeah but then that would make you want to buy it. that's why Acura's not doing it.

Ken1997TL

Interesting that the ILX Hybrid gets less power than the CR-Z (which is quite underrated)

phile

^ i tole you, they don't want to sell this thing.

Edward'TLS

So it's like "other competitor automakers have it in their lineups; umm ..... ; I must have one in my lineup too".

phile

Yes, it's called being competitive. Problem?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think the base ILX will not have Navigation and leather interior. Each of these is worth about $1.5k for the Civic. It's probably more appropriate to use the base price of a Civic EX, then add $4k, plus the premium price of Acura (if it's worth anything) to the guesstimate the base price of ILX. IMO, it's probably $20.5k + $4k + $2k = $26-$27k ish?

Colin

Yeah, this has me totally confused. I was virtually certain that they were going to combine the more energetic CR-Z gas motor with the new HCH's more powerful IMA motor for this car. The other two engines are pretty much what I expected.

dom

Did you expect to have the 2.0L rated so low on both power and FE?

AZuser

There was a pic a few pages back of (a base 2.0-liter??) ILX... leather interior but no navi.

Not having a leather interior would be a bad move.

EDIT....

Nevermind. Looks like a base 2.4 liter with leather, but no navi

Colin

Honestly, I never gave the 2.0 a thought once we learned it's only AT. I was really hoping to see the hybrid setup I described with a 6MT as that would have been totally unique in the marketplace.

We knew a LONG time ago that the ED engines would debut on the Accord, and that the K series was discontinued. The R20 should be no surprise to anyone who follows the brand. +10 Hp from .2 liter bump is about par for this type of increase. Very similar (percentage wise) to the increase from 3.5 to 3.7 in the J series.

As for FE, what does a Civic do? 39 highway? You won't get more power and more FE, so logically I'd expect this to be less. So the relevant question is "how much less is acceptable, 5%, 10%, 20%?" If the answer is (for example) 10% less FE is acceptable for an 8% increase in power and we're down 20%, then we're really only off by 10% (since ~10% less was already ok).

I know this all sounds really nitpicky, but it's hardly the tragedy everyone is making it out to be. So long as the loss in FE is accompanied by a little better performance, it would indicate to me that it was the result of more aggressive gearing. The customer can choose to buy the hybrid if they want more, or always go and get a Civic.

My disappointment is with the addition of the base model. At 40K units a year, it would mean 15-25 cars a month for a large store. How do we inventory 3 trim levels of 2.0 liter (and all the colors), at least 2 trim levels of 2.4, and who knows how many trim levels on the Hybrid? Are we supposed to get one of each in one color only?

You know it's a pet peeve of mine but there's no denying that the more trims we add, the fewer cars we seem to sell. In the best years, there were ~60K sales of 2G TL with base and Navi, and ~70K of 3G with base, navi, and a few 6MTs.

dom

What you say is all logical and correct. But I'm still left entirely underwhelmed by the car. I was expecting more, not a lot more but more. Maybe it was all the build up from Detroit.

I hold out hope that the TSX is holding this car back a bit as is the wait for the ED power trains. Good luck with selling, IMO you're going to need all the help you can get with those unimpressive specs. And all those SKU numbers!

Rocketsfan

While I was getting my car's transmission fluid changed at the dealership, I struck up a conversation with a sales guy as I looked at their showroom inventory and some 4G TL's. We both came to the conclusion that neither of us had a clue what Acura was trying to do with this car. I actually think the car looks pretty good and has potential, but then the engine choices leave me befuddled.

Then I started kinda hoping they could beef this design up a bit and call it the 5G TL. lol.

phile

Bingo. not asking for 0-60 in 5 seconds from this 2.0L. Not asking for 60mpg from it either. not asking for a 40K car for the price of 30K.

But was expecting something better than what the specs are saying right now.

I don't think that's being chicken little.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

yea...I think you can get the leather if you get the premium package or something.

Moog-Type-S

So, the question to the marketing department:

Why buy this car?

Clearly not for the badge. Not much prestige or legendary history behind the Acura badge. Nobody drools for an Acura like they do for a Mercedes Benz, BMW.....

For the ownership experience? Questionable, but compared to BMW full maintenance, ownership experience is night and day compared to Acura. What does Acura bring to the table that is different from other lux makes in this department? I don't have an answer for that.

For the performance? We all know the answer to this one. We'll leave this one alone.

For the tech/features? See above. There are sub-lux car makers offering more tech and features than this car.

Design? Maybe...It does not offend, so it has that going for it. Does it excite? Well it's a lot better looking than a Civic and an Accord.

So who is this car for? The Honda faithful? Civic owners who don't want an Accord, but want the illusion that they are buying a luxury car?

Where does this car fit in? What's the business model for it?

Edward'TLS

Just wish that Acura also put "competitive" back into the sub-$40K coupe segment too.

Edward'TLS

This is like the previous Honda Accord model mix, with 3 trim levels for each of the low-output 4-cylinder, the hi-output 4-cyclinder, and the V6 powertrain offerings.

dom

Not sure it means anything as the US is a very different market and Canada has always been very Honda friendly (Civic's been #1 for 10-11 years running) but the EL and CSX did pretty well up here IIRC.

But we're budget minded, (compacts rule up here) not sure I can say the same about you folk....

All I see with this car is Honda pushing its Canadian marketing plan on the US.

Edward'TLS

It won't work, because the US population is 10x that of Canada, and the Americans earn more and have a lot more disposable income than the poorer Canadians.

Colin

True, but they make Accords at ~10X the projected volume of this car. And yes, I know they also have more dealers but with that kind of production volume, large dealers have a large selection of cars.

dom

But yes, pretty much. I personally don't think American's are ready to downsize and spend less on their luxury. SUV sales that spike once gas prices stabilize is proof of that IMO. People don't like settling. And Audi A3 and 1 Series while entry level, I don't think are perceived as the ILX will be perceived in the US. Should be interesting. It was an easy call to make when I successfully predicted that the Insight, CR-Z, Crosstour and ZDX would be sales flops. This one is much harder to call.

Good news is it should sell by the boatload in

Moog-Type-S

So basically what you are telling me that there is no reason/market for this car.....and yet they are going to produce it based on the Canadian market model?!?!?

I think this was another Honda knee-jerk product. The concept/design was straight out of a couple years back. Honda thought the economic downturn was going to be longer. Honda thought that CAFE standards were going drastically change the industry......so the ILX is a result of this thinking.

...that's my best guess.

dom

I don't think they are, but I'm sure it didn't hurt when someone brought up how good the EL/CSX did up in Iglooland.


TBD....

Moog-Type-S

Ok then, it seems you are dancing around the questions.

Do you have an answer?....or are you as dumbfounded as I am as to why they are building this car for which there appears to be a very small market for it in the U.S.?