Acura: ILX News
03-19-2012, 01:22 PM
#601
Honda Fanboy
Some interesting notes from Jeff:
-2.0L engine has a balancer shaft, Acura says it delivers performance that matches TSX 2.4 5AT.
-Hybrid powertrain is nearly identical to Civic Hybrid powertrain but it has been retuned extensively, delivers city-speed responsiveness approaching the level of CR-Z in sport mode.
-ILX features Amplitude Reactive Dampers for improved maneuverabilty and ride comfort.
-To be sold in North America and exported to China.
-Earth Dreams powerplants will be introduced to the line about as soon as they're available. Not necessarily waiting for a hard date for an MMC event.
-2.0L engine has a balancer shaft, Acura says it delivers performance that matches TSX 2.4 5AT.
-Hybrid powertrain is nearly identical to Civic Hybrid powertrain but it has been retuned extensively, delivers city-speed responsiveness approaching the level of CR-Z in sport mode.
-ILX features Amplitude Reactive Dampers for improved maneuverabilty and ride comfort.
-To be sold in North America and exported to China.
-Earth Dreams powerplants will be introduced to the line about as soon as they're available. Not necessarily waiting for a hard date for an MMC event.
03-19-2012, 04:03 PM
#603
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1048046
I dunno...I think maybe <25K would've been a better pricing considering the entry level model has no-HID, no leather for what is essentially a very good looking Civic EX.
I dunno...I think maybe <25K would've been a better pricing considering the entry level model has no-HID, no leather for what is essentially a very good looking Civic EX.
No wonder they're going to get rid of TSX. TSX is way better deal, IMO.
$28K for a lux car with no HID, no leather....
No thanks.
03-19-2012, 04:15 PM
#604
Safety Car
acura consumer = best bang for the buck. company performance = not profitable.
solution: remove tsx and replace with civic based car for nearly identical price point.
now starting to realize how much you get for your $$ with a tsx, now that its going away. the only other good packages left are kia and hyundai offerings.
solution: remove tsx and replace with civic based car for nearly identical price point.
now starting to realize how much you get for your $$ with a tsx, now that its going away. the only other good packages left are kia and hyundai offerings.
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 03-19-2012 at 04:17 PM.
03-19-2012, 04:19 PM
#605
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Our CR-Z and TSX wagon were a REAL steal...
03-19-2012, 06:21 PM
#606
My first Avatar....
acura consumer = best bang for the buck. company performance = not profitable.
solution: remove tsx and replace with civic based car for nearly identical price point.
now starting to realize how much you get for your $$ with a tsx, now that its going away. the only other good packages left are kia and hyundai offerings.
solution: remove tsx and replace with civic based car for nearly identical price point.
now starting to realize how much you get for your $$ with a tsx, now that its going away. the only other good packages left are kia and hyundai offerings.
Ack...
03-19-2012, 07:19 PM
#607
imho one of the biggest problem is that virtually all Acuras share their platform with Hondas.
The TSX can never truly be an IS/3 Series competitor when it is a rebadged Euro Accord. Not from a car enthusiast standpoint at least.
Perhaps the ILX will be able to pull it off as there is less differentiation on an entry level luxury car then as you progress upwards. Plus the ILX is the first Acura with a beak that doesn't look so hideous
Acura needs the platforms to become more flexible or come up with some platforms that can be designed from the ground up as an Acura.
Just for comparison - look at Lexus, the IS, GS and LS are all on unique (to the USA) platforms. Even though they share platforms with cars sold outside the US, the platform is geared to Luxury / Performance. The ES being the standout in the car lineup that shares a platform with the Camry.
Acura can only go so far when designing a car built on a chassis for a Honda. A FR design would be a nice start
It'd be nice too if they didn't worry so much about a lower end model needing to have less horsepower than a higher end model. BMW gives you the choice in all of their lineup - doesn't seem to hurt them.
Although, that said - other than the NSX, the RL is the only car that is on its own platform and it is not exactly inspiring.
I understand that it would drive up the price - but maybe Acura needs to get a little more pricey to give itself a better image.
The TSX can never truly be an IS/3 Series competitor when it is a rebadged Euro Accord. Not from a car enthusiast standpoint at least.
Perhaps the ILX will be able to pull it off as there is less differentiation on an entry level luxury car then as you progress upwards. Plus the ILX is the first Acura with a beak that doesn't look so hideous
Acura needs the platforms to become more flexible or come up with some platforms that can be designed from the ground up as an Acura.
Just for comparison - look at Lexus, the IS, GS and LS are all on unique (to the USA) platforms. Even though they share platforms with cars sold outside the US, the platform is geared to Luxury / Performance. The ES being the standout in the car lineup that shares a platform with the Camry.
Acura can only go so far when designing a car built on a chassis for a Honda. A FR design would be a nice start
It'd be nice too if they didn't worry so much about a lower end model needing to have less horsepower than a higher end model. BMW gives you the choice in all of their lineup - doesn't seem to hurt them.
Although, that said - other than the NSX, the RL is the only car that is on its own platform and it is not exactly inspiring.
I understand that it would drive up the price - but maybe Acura needs to get a little more pricey to give itself a better image.
I dont think ILX is going to be faster than TSX. Remove that ZR rated tires from Civic SI than its performance is identical to TSX.
03-19-2012, 07:47 PM
#608
Understanding this, the TSX is an outstanding value. Honestly, I'm a little surprised by this, I was hoping that the base model would start where the top line Civic left off (at most +$1000 above it). However, if TOV is correct, (actually the Acura rep they spoke to) and they are getting equivalent performance to the 2.4 Auto TSX, with the 2.0 in the ILX, I guess it helps explain the projected fuel economy ratings. (ditto for the hybrid ratings)
03-19-2012, 09:42 PM
#609
Senior Moderator
Meh. TSX far superior value. What a steal! Not to mention that the I-4 5AT drivetrain, which is underpowered on paper, actually is brilliant. Don't believe me? Go drive one, I did, several times. I am properly impressed.
We'll see if the ILX sells at the price offered. Just doesn't seem like as good of a deal to me.
We'll see if the ILX sells at the price offered. Just doesn't seem like as good of a deal to me.
03-19-2012, 09:58 PM
#610
03-19-2012, 10:17 PM
#611
03-19-2012, 11:20 PM
#612
I don't think that's bad pricing, particularly as a loaded Civic surges past the $24k mark. There would need to be some pricing separation.
As Dom indicates, the market will dictate if the ILX is the next Fit/CRV when it comes to popularity OR if we'll ultimately see another one of these Tetsuo Iwamura quotes again:
"In the case of the [insert Honda/Acura model here], I'm really disappointed because that's a nice car, [with] very beautiful styling, and it gives very good driving performance as well as packaging. But yet, we went a bit too far."
As Dom indicates, the market will dictate if the ILX is the next Fit/CRV when it comes to popularity OR if we'll ultimately see another one of these Tetsuo Iwamura quotes again:
"In the case of the [insert Honda/Acura model here], I'm really disappointed because that's a nice car, [with] very beautiful styling, and it gives very good driving performance as well as packaging. But yet, we went a bit too far."
I was projecting it to start around $25k for the base and $27k for the 2.4.
03-20-2012, 07:43 AM
#613
Race Director
It took a while to discover that Honda was losing money on the NSX - it might be similar with the TSX. I'm sure the ILX is a fine car but not as good as the TSX given the price point.
03-20-2012, 08:08 AM
#614
AZ Community Team
I don't know if Honda is losing money on the TSX (unless one has access to their internal operations finance numbers it's impossible to say) but virtually all foreign built products work in a exchange rate in their business plan. That has been done by the Japanese auto makers since the 70's. That way you can tell in the planning stages what the potential is. The late 70's to mid 80's exchange rates were also the reason the large influx of foreign auto makers built plants into the US.
03-20-2012, 08:10 AM
#615
AZ Community Team
I've never driven a TSX (someone at the gym loves his), but IMO Honda wanted to spread out the product range TSX-TL-RL in both cost and size.
03-20-2012, 01:06 PM
#616
Honda Fanboy
The ILX is scaled down a bit from the TSX, but the materials seem to be roughly on par for the most part, and the ILX actually surpasses the TSX's feature count in a few areas.
03-20-2012, 01:09 PM
#617
Honda Fanboy
Updated fuel economy figures and weight
Turns out that the fuel economy figures have improved from Acura's initial estimate. The new figures are as follow:
2.0L: 24/35/28
2.4L: 22/31/25
Hybrid: 39/38/38
Weight has also been kept below 3,000 lbs on all three models.
2.0L: 24/35/28
2.4L: 22/31/25
Hybrid: 39/38/38
Weight has also been kept below 3,000 lbs on all three models.
Between the 3 trim levels, there's a surprisingly tight range of curb weights - the base 2.0L version is the lightest at 2910lb, while the Hybrid Technology model tops out the range at 2987lb, for a span of a mere 77lb. The 2.4 6MT model (only offered in Premium trim) weighs 2978lb.
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03-20-2012, 01:19 PM
#618
Whats up with RDX owners?
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Thats actually pretty impressive regarding weight.The 2012 Civic Si Sedan w/ nav weighs in at 2971lbs, thats only 7lbs lighter then the 2.4 6MT Premium model. I wouldve pegged it closer to 3100lbs. Same gas mileage too.
The hybrid model still falls short of the Civic Hybrids numbers though (44/44), but its over 100lbs heavier too.
Last edited by civicdrivr; 03-20-2012 at 01:21 PM.
03-20-2012, 01:24 PM
#619
Honda Fanboy
Thats actually pretty impressive regarding weight.The 2012 Civic Si Sedan w/ nav weighs in at 2971lbs, thats only 7lbs lighter then the 2.4 6MT Premium model. I wouldve pegged it closer to 3100lbs. Same gas mileage too.
The hybrid model still falls short of the Civic Hybrids numbers though (44/44), but its over 100lbs heavier too.
03-20-2012, 01:51 PM
#621
Moderator
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03-20-2012, 02:07 PM
#622
"Lightness" costs money. This may help explain the cost difference, hopefully Acura will make a point of it in their product literature. I want to see return to the way they used to talk about their technology in a way that 'normal' people could relate.
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03-20-2012, 02:22 PM
#623
Whats up with RDX owners?
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Im quite certain the Premium comes with navigation. But it is a shame that they dropped the LSD from the 2.4l 6MT.
03-20-2012, 02:25 PM
#624
Actually not. Premium gets the B/U camera (probably in the iMID screen) but no Navi, ELS and [scratches head] HD for MP3s? IMO, its kinda made the Navi a standalone option like it used to be (since ELS is probably a part of the headunit for the Navi)
03-20-2012, 02:25 PM
#625
Senior Moderator
We'll see I guess.
AT TSX = 17.45lbs per hp
Base ILX 2.0 = 19.4lbs per hp
And did I mention the TSX's superior aerodynamics (BEST EVAR!) and side mirrors?
03-20-2012, 02:28 PM
#626
Whats up with RDX owners?
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Dont forget the top-of-its-class ground clearance.
03-20-2012, 02:30 PM
#627
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03-20-2012, 03:51 PM
#629
03-20-2012, 04:50 PM
#630
The sizzle in the Steak
27 grand......wait................wait............... .......................
03-20-2012, 04:56 PM
#631
Honda Fanboy
Somehow I doubt this will be the case. And in what context? 0-60? 1/4 mile or hwy passing. Performance can mean a lot of things.
We'll see I guess.
AT TSX = 17.45lbs per hp
Base ILX 2.0 = 19.4lbs per hp
And did I mention the TSX's superior aerodynamics (BEST EVAR!) and side mirrors?
We'll see I guess.
AT TSX = 17.45lbs per hp
Base ILX 2.0 = 19.4lbs per hp
And did I mention the TSX's superior aerodynamics (BEST EVAR!) and side mirrors?
03-20-2012, 11:05 PM
#632
For some reason this ILX reminds me 3G TL-S. That car was surely overpriced for its time at $38k.
Small rims, small mirrors, lower ride height, lack of chrome door handles and mirror and not Japanese quality. . and there is no way to match TSX V6 refinement.
$38k is alot of money in 2007 but not so much in 2012.
wtith TSX V-6 you can atleast expect to match performance and Fuel economic of its newest competitors like 328I, VW CC, G25, IS250.
ILX is clearly overpriced for its time. Expect to see discounted sales.
ILX at $30k is too underpowered with downgraded styling and economy/performance not matching to competitors.. does it even have side mirror indicator. Thats the problem with Civic based car aerodynamics.
Civic Si put 2 mpg worse than 300 lbs heavier VW Jetta GLI despite Jetta having larger rims, wider and identical performance.
It will never happen with TSX that it gets worse fuel economy than the next 300lbs heavier car in same test.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html
Small rims, small mirrors, lower ride height, lack of chrome door handles and mirror and not Japanese quality. . and there is no way to match TSX V6 refinement.
$38k is alot of money in 2007 but not so much in 2012.
wtith TSX V-6 you can atleast expect to match performance and Fuel economic of its newest competitors like 328I, VW CC, G25, IS250.
ILX is clearly overpriced for its time. Expect to see discounted sales.
ILX at $30k is too underpowered with downgraded styling and economy/performance not matching to competitors.. does it even have side mirror indicator. Thats the problem with Civic based car aerodynamics.
Civic Si put 2 mpg worse than 300 lbs heavier VW Jetta GLI despite Jetta having larger rims, wider and identical performance.
It will never happen with TSX that it gets worse fuel economy than the next 300lbs heavier car in same test.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html
03-20-2012, 11:18 PM
#633
Whats up with RDX owners?
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03-21-2012, 07:15 AM
#634
Race Director
03-21-2012, 07:36 AM
#635
My first Avatar....
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03-21-2012, 08:52 AM
#636
Senior Moderator
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03-21-2012, 09:22 AM
#637
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03-21-2012, 10:49 AM
#638
The sizzle in the Steak
clownz gonna clown
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03-21-2012, 12:39 PM
#640
AZ Community Team
