BEAR-AvHistory

The base model is starting to look like an expensive Camry 301BHP DOHC V6. Toyota sold more Camry's in 1 month 8X last year than the TLX did for the entire year. Be interesting to see if the DOHC V6 can pull it out.

ELIN

If the RDX and TLX year to year sales are any indication, folks have severely downvoted the "True Touch" interface. Didn't Acura have focus groups for this thing? How did it see the light of day based on real-world consumer complaints? The sad part is this interface can easily be overlooked during a test drive of the car.

The Type S won't be any different so any performance kudos will be marred by the infotainment system. I expect the upcoming Type S to be a complete egg.

Tony Pac

TLX sales numbers are not impressive at all. Disappointing!

But before making different judgements, we have to look at everything else.
1. How many C class, 3 series, Q50, A4 and IS were sold compared to the TLX. Audi sold 4,000 A4s in Q4 that mean less than 1,500 units per month. Even if we combine A4 and A5 (8,800 units). it comes up to less than 3,000 units per month. Nothing impressive that fact that Audi is German and A4 has digital gauges and it's faster than TLX.
2. Pandemic has impacted the entire car market, you cannot ignore that. Unless you are selling Bentleys or Ferraris, then you are sales numbers are up as the rich guys up there are spending the cash that is sitting in their bank accounts and they are scared of the devaluation of money and etc. I won't go to politics and BS.
3. RDX sales are down but has nothing to do with the infotainment. In this current situation, RDX sales numbers are at 52K units. i think 52K units are pretty good actually. Yes, sales are down compared to previous year. But again, life is not as usual. Pandemic has impacted the car market. 50,000 Q5s were sold in 2020 compared to 52,000 RDX. Last but not least, 6,300 QX50 were sold by infiniti f in Q4 or a total of 21,000 units for the entire year.

I am all about numbers and stats, but let's not look at just Acura and say it's bad. That said, I am still disappointed by TLX sales numbers and I think they should be able to sell 2,500-2,800 units as the car is brand new.

fiatlux

Ah yes the pandemic excuse. That explains why most other Honda and Acura models saw as good or better sales last month compared to 2019. I guess the super rich just can’t keep their hands off of the ILX.

hddnav

The pandemic has impacted the market for all cars, except for companies, like Tesla, with compelling products. Other me-too companies, including Acura, just fade into oblivion when the tide recedes. If Honda somehow was able to know that they would only be able to sell 2000 new-generation TLXs per month, they would have cancelled the car altogether. As is, the investment has already been made, so they have no choice but to ride it out, just like they did for the RLX.

Just sad.

fiatlux

Problem is the reality doesn’t seem to match what you are saying. Honda as a whole sold only 0.1% cars less in December 2020 compared to December 2019. Even if you isolate just Acura, it’s a 3% drop. BMW had a 2% drop and Audi had a 5% drop, so it seems that the impact to the entire market in Q4 has been relatively small. I’m not so sure you can chalk the TLX’s sales drop to the pandemic. I don’t think you can even chalk it up to consumer preference moving towards crossovers, since the Accord and Civic both saw sales in that same period that wasn’t far off from 2019.

Per Occam’s Razor, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, and in this case the simplest is that the natural consumer demand for the TLX just isn’t there.

Tony Pac

There is no excuse here. Read my post and I did say it's disappointing but ignoring the pandemic or the shutdown (whatever you want to call it) then you live in a different planate brother. Check BMW, Audi, Lexus, and Infiniti's sales numbers and come back explain me why every car company has 8-10 or even 20%+ decline in their sales compared to last year. Or the decline only applies to Acura and not others LMAO!

Tony Pac

Audi = -17%
BMW = -17%
Acura = -13%
Infiniti = -32%

Could you please explain me why all these crazy declines?

fiatlux

Does it make sense to look at all of 2020 when the TLX has only been on sale for Q4? Of course not, and if you look at just Q4, the overall sales drops have been in the range of 2-5%, not 20+% LMAO!

Tony Pac

You will never change! That's he issue. lol! I won't waste my time. Enjoy your AcuraZine Stay...best forum in NA

fiatlux

Could you please explain why you’re looking at numbers for time periods the 2021 TLX wasn’t even on sale for? Might as well show me 2019 TLX numbers and claim the new one is selling well.

Good job setting up a straw man. I specifically said the pandemic didn’t seem to effect December and Q4 very much, and you go and pull 2020 figures. Either your reading comprehension is off of you’re grasping at straws. Sad.

fiatlux

Pot calling the kettle black. Keep pumping that sunshine and doing mental gymnastics to make excuses.

pyrodan007

Usually sales increase a tick during the first couple of months following a release. Pandemic aside, that never really happened with the TLX so far. I'd be curious to compare it to sales of the 2021 A4 but supply is low for that car so far. In fact, I'm curious how refreshed models sales did this year. If some managed an increase, it's not the pandemic and for sure related to features of that model. In Acura's case, supply should no longer be an excuse. January sales should be even worse since supply of 2020s should be pretty much gone by then.

Legend2TL

There are 12 months in a year, not just December for selling cars. For overall US sales in 2020 compared to 2019, Honda was -16.6% and Acura was -13%.
GoodCarBadCar donesn't have Toyota's Dec. sales but will probably be down ~14%


https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota...sales-figures/


, don't have time to check goodcarbadcar but curious how the overall sales numbers are for the major automakers for 2020 vs 2019

Agree on the 2G TLX, the sales so far are not good for a new model even considering the epidemic.

Tony Pac

All the data isn't uploaded yet. I got all the 2020 numbers from each manufacturer. MB did not update their numbers yet. if I am not mistaken, Lexus is down 7% and Toyota 11% (needs to be confirmed 2019 vs 2020). Btw, agreed with you on TLX numbers as well that's why I said disappointing!

fiatlux

This thread is specifically about the new TLX, which is why I’m excluding the rest of 2020 when it wasn’t on sale. I don’t deny that overall 2020 sales figures have been heavily impacted, but I stand by my assessment that the impact to Q4 has been slight.

ELIN

Commenting purely on the SUV's Dec 2019 vs Dec 2020:

Sales of Pilot are up 16.0%
Sales of MDX are up 7.2%

Sales of CRV are up 5.6%
You would think RDX would also be up? No!

Sales of RDX are down 7.1%

If the uptick in ILX sales don't scare you, wait until the 2022 MDX comes out! Acura will have killed the golden goose once folks start getting into the fancy new MDX just to see the same True Touch interface that's killing the RDX/TLX!

fiatlux

The uptick on ILX sales is very surprising. I don’t know if maybe Acura or dealerships are putting a lot of money on the hood, because the car itself hasn’t changed, and there’s still plenty of leftover 2020 TLX’s so it’s not like potential TLX owners are being priced out by the more expensive newer one.

Flapjackura

I'm not surprised regarding the ILX. To the average Joe, who does not pay a lot of attention to forums like this or to enthusiast-level car reviews, or reads Consumer Reports; the ILX holds a lot of appeal. It's an attractive car with a fair amount of features for under 35K - even a loaded A-Spec ILX with Premium and Tech Package can be had for under 35K - for that you get onboard nav, 10 speaker ELS, heated seats, memory seats, etc. in your blinged up last gen Civic, with the premium brand cache of Acura. The folks buying it don't care if the interior materials and some of the tech is dated and cheap - they feel like they are getting a good deal and making a step up from a Corolla or Civic. The equivalent Lexus with the same features (IS) is going to be 10K more, as is an A3 Audi or A220 Merc or BMW 228 Grand Coupe. The people buying the ILX are going for Acura reliability and the feeling that they scored a "luxury" vehicle. I still believe an all-new ILX, supposedly due in 2022, has the potential to be a class leader.

pyrodan007

Why is it that Honda's cheaper versions always look like a better deal versus Acura, and probably more techy. For example, the new civic hatchback should have been a smaller version of new TLX. More practical with probably better sales.

Motor1 : Honda Civic Hatchback Spied Showing It's Smooth Rear Styling.
https://www.motor1.com/news/464537/h...os-464537/amp/

fiatlux

For whatever reason, Honda tends to put more of their new tech into the Honda brand first to test out before having it trickle up to Acura. In some cases, that works because bad ideas (like LaneWatch) die before making their way to Acura, but in other cases it means Acura tech lags behind. And not just tech too, but powertrain; the K20C and 10AT showed up in Honda products before Acura, for instance. It's interesting because Lexus is the opposite; the tech trickles down from Lexus to Toyota.

Now that Acuras are (supposedly) built on totally different platforms from their Honda counterparts and they're trying to distance themselves more and more from the mothership, maybe we'll start seeing tech showing up in Acuras first, the way it probably should be.

ELIN

The lower half of the front reminds me of the Camry, or the lower spindle on a Lexus.

ELIN

Especially that True Touch interface...

It'll probably never make it to the Honda products (famous last words).

pyrodan007

Not exactly sure about the outside, I'm a huge fan of exposed tailpipes. But I love the simple interior. Sadly probably much easier to use than the true-touch system.

Tesla1856

Honda seems to be going down a different path in that regard.
I've found that Honda and Acura are more disconnected and independent than I previously thought (like back before we bought our MDX) . They share engines and other core things, but when it comes things like technology and interiors ... not so much.

Tesla1856

Me too.

Funny ... starting a few years ago ... we are green so lets hide them. Now we are sporty/performance so lets show them off. I say if vehicle has ICE, you should show them.
This vehicle is hybrid, so lets hide them again.
This vehicle is electric, so they don't exists (now this one I agree with).

leomio85

I turned to statistics to attempt to refute this, but came back with not-so-great results. Comparing it to other companies, it seems like everyone had a good month for compact SUV/CUVs. According to GCBC's figures, the X3, Q5 and NX all had a big uptick in December sales both compared to last year and month-over-month compared to Nov. I don't know what's going on with the GLC, but there's no stats for it for the past 3 months. Silver lining is that sales still remained relatively strong for the year despite everything going on. 3G RDX eclipsed annual sales of the Q5, but lost out to the NX for the first year since its existence. Also, its sales numbers didn't dip as hard as the X3 for the year despite not having a great December.

I think the big test will be the MDX. If that doesn't sell well, Acura really has to go back to the drawing board. I don't know if it's the True Touch ... I'd like to think it's more complex than that. I personally love the True Touch and prefer it to anything else I've tried. The easiest remedy would be to implement touchscreen along with keeping the True Touch option. I'd prefer this over a true "mouse pad" as I feel like that would be more cumbersome and distracting while driving. I'm just one asshole on the internet though, so who knows, many might be for a traditional mouse pad compared to the True Touch. But, I know Lexus employs a mouse pad-like feature and that's usually the biggest point of detraction from the interior from a lot of people. I think touch screen would be the way to go.

Also, I think one of the biggest things that hit the RDX (and subsequently, the TLX which shares the same system) were the issues the infotainment has had. Even today I hear about people having software issues with their infotainment systems on their 2020 and 2021s. It's not occurring as regularly as in the 2019s, but they're still there and I think that's keeping people away more so than the True Touch. Thankfully, mine has worked flawlessly ... *knock on wood*

F23A4

This gives me pause to consider: is the ILX now the longest running generation under the Acura brand? That we'll likely see the 11G Civic prior to the 2G ILX is nearly mind blowing. We may actually see more ILXs produced off the 9G platform than actual Civics.

Apologies for the

TSX69

If it helps, here are the annual numbers for this segment (Mercedes & Genesis have not been released yet):

ES 43,292 -16.2%
3series 41,442 -20.1%
TLX 21,785 -17.9%
A4 18,341 -31%
Q50 16,533 -36.4%
CT5 14,711
IS 13,600 -9.4%
MKZ 12,518 -29.4%
S60 11,946 -31.8%
Giulia 8,203 -6%
LaCrosse 230 -96.8%
ATS 116 -89.8%

Tony Pac

Interesting. The A4 and Q50 numbers are a bit shocking to me. Less 2K units difference. The Q50 is very outdated and yet it has very close numbers to the "sexy" A4 with the digital gauges. Thanks for sharing the info brother! 1+ for infiniti...the brand isn't dead yet

Flapjackura

Q50 does not surprise me, Infiniti needs to update the tech in it. A4 kind of a surprise, too, as it's a great vehicle and a worthy competitor; maybe the numbers have to do with inventory issues. I considered test driving, but for me the inventory always seemed low here at the various Chicago area dealerships. Extremely so. Not a lot of choices of options/colors. Maybe I am in the minority but the idea of custom ordering a car with all the right features and color combo, and then waiting weeks to actually obtain is a big turnoff. Same reason I didn't test drive a 2021 Lexus IS. Nobody is stocking them in large numbers around here.

BEAR-AvHistory

IIRC the European manufactures took a bigger hit with plant shutdowns than we did. My 2020 car went out of production on schedule at the end of February 2020. Normally they would start taking orders for the 2021 in April 2020 with first deliveries end of May 2020. They did not put the 2021 configurator up the late August 2020.

By comparison my 2018 440 was ordered the last business day in April 2017 & was delivered in June 2017.

jhb31

From my last BMW purchase it took about 3 to 4 weeks to get, way back. Since I wanted specific options they didn't have on the lot it had to be ordered. Do remember they called me when it was on the ship to from Germany and then again when it arrived at the port. Not sure if things have changed but outside of standard packages that was the way it went. Not complaining about it but it took a bit of time to get it. Kind of a neat experience to build up the anticipation but a wait non the less. At least back then outside of the standard options packages it was a special order requiring a build in Germany. Sounds like things are still that way.

Flapjackura

That waiting period would basically drive me insane. I'm one of those annoyingly impatient types of person that doesn't just get a hair up his ass to make a big purchase; I get the full-on steel suppository.

Midwestuser1

lol!!

ELIN

One of these days, I'd like to take delivery of a German car....in Germany! Many of the luxury Germany manufacturers has this as an option and it usually only costs a little more than buying directly from the States. A good excuse to visit Germany, which I've never visited.

Anyone ever done this?

fiatlux

Actually, it costs less to buy a car via European Delivery; the ED price is usually about 7% under sticker, they pay to ship it back over, and Volvo even pays for two round trip plane tickets and a hotel room for a night.

Unfortunately though, both BMW and Audi recently ended their program, so you’re left with just MB, Volvo, and Porsche, and Porsche doesn’t even offer a discount. BMW cited declining participation in their ED program because more and more people are buying their crossovers, which are built here rather than in Germany. Fortunately, Volvo doesn’t build any crossovers here, so their excellent program will probably stick around for a while. I’ve done both the BMW and MB ED experience, and I would say it’s definitely worthwhile. You basically get a free vacation to Europe and a tour of the factory, plus the opportunity to drive the car over there (Nurburgring anyone?).

ELIN

My understanding was you are really only responsible for airfare.

fiatlux

I believe Mercedes gives you a $200 voucher for a hotel, and as I mentioned Volvo pays for 2 round trip tickets + 1 night at the Clarion in Gothenburg.

ELIN

The Volvo deal is pretty sweet! Sweden's not bad either!