Is everyone ready for the Type S Concept? (Reveal Pics Page 5)
#2721
AZ Community Team
I look at the side-view 2G TLX pics and wonder how Honda/Acura engineers got so much front overhang with the 2G TLX. I strongly suspect it's a transverse mounted V6 (last longitudinal powertrain FWD Acura was the 2G Legend).
So the front wheels look pretty far forward for a transverse FWD motor/transaxle. I'm guessing two solutions
1) Modern traditional Honda/Acura (engine on the right, transaxle on the left been that way for the past couple decades) with the engine rotated backwards to provide a low hood line and move the Cg to the rear. This would have the driveshafts behind the engine block.
2) Less likely but put the engine block behind the driveshafts, this would move the engine to the rear. Would require a new transaxle case or perhaps reverse the layout (can't see that happening). I'd imagine Honda/Acura want the same transaxle arrangement for both the 2.0T and 3.0T to make it easier on production engineering
Either way, the hoodline is pretty low and overhang fairly big for a V6 to be mounted in front of the driveshafts and not rotated to relocated.
Never seen a pic but Honda put the C25 V6 into a 2G Prelude, apparently the packaging was very tight.
So the front wheels look pretty far forward for a transverse FWD motor/transaxle. I'm guessing two solutions
1) Modern traditional Honda/Acura (engine on the right, transaxle on the left been that way for the past couple decades) with the engine rotated backwards to provide a low hood line and move the Cg to the rear. This would have the driveshafts behind the engine block.
2) Less likely but put the engine block behind the driveshafts, this would move the engine to the rear. Would require a new transaxle case or perhaps reverse the layout (can't see that happening). I'd imagine Honda/Acura want the same transaxle arrangement for both the 2.0T and 3.0T to make it easier on production engineering
Either way, the hoodline is pretty low and overhang fairly big for a V6 to be mounted in front of the driveshafts and not rotated to relocated.
Never seen a pic but Honda put the C25 V6 into a 2G Prelude, apparently the packaging was very tight.
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Costco (08-23-2020)
#2722
When I was looking to buy the 3rd gen TL, I had made a post here and asked for some advice. I was surprised how many had maxima's and were part of maxima.org. The biggest issue I had with the maxima community, was when I got the TL, a lot of the maxima members "disowned" me. Most of which I had met in person from various meets. All of a sudden I was a nobody to them and became this honda boy. This crap still happens today unfortunately.
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04WDPSeDaN (08-23-2020)
#2723
Regarding the back and forth between Bear and 4G, I will say that the 4G was never in the conversation (versus its competitors) in any substantial way but it was an underrated performer; particularly the SH-AWD model with Summer tires which bumped up grip and braking performance (the former to .92g)
For others that criticized the straight line performance and Bear which mentions how the 3G was more "competitive" than the 4G, one thing happened between the 3G and the 4G.....advanced turbocharging, a route that Acura and other Japanese decided not to take at that time. A 4G of his liking styling wise with the same J37 engine would have produced the same results, the 335i, considered the benchmark in the segment, was simply too fast off the line (and quite smaller and lighter, let's remember that the 4G was 5 Series big)...however in handling the 4G SH-AWD was much closer in effectiveness to a 3 Series than a 3G ever was, something obviously he will never admit.
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 08-23-2020 at 11:56 AM.
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Kinuto (08-23-2020)
#2724
They're either shills or blind because most other reviews weren't quite so kind. At best, it's incredibly controversial:
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...h-awd-verdict/
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...l-first-drive/
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ura-tl-sh-awd/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...h-awd-wrap-up/
https://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/15/...wd-6mt-review/
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...-tl-arrival-2/
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...ura-tl-sh-awd/
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...h-awd-verdict/
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...l-first-drive/
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ura-tl-sh-awd/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...h-awd-wrap-up/
https://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/15/...wd-6mt-review/
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/acur...-tl-arrival-2/
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...ura-tl-sh-awd/
I bought my 4G one night in winter and on my first drive the next day I got my first compliment (maybe the black color did help who knows) and I kept receiving compliments more than any "normal" car I ever owned. All well placed paid shills by Acura I guess...
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Kinuto (08-23-2020)
#2725
It really is. You pull up in a 4G Acura TL and you'll still get strong looks. Heck I went to wash my car this morning and saw a 2019 Acura TLX Aspec owner admiring my car.
#2726
Some people also find exceedingly ugly dogs to be cute as well. Doesn’t mean the majority think they look good.
#2727
#2728
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
I look at the side-view 2G TLX pics and wonder how Honda/Acura engineers got so much front overhang with the 2G TLX. I strongly suspect it's a transverse mounted V6 (last longitudinal powertrain FWD Acura was the 2G Legend).
So the front wheels look pretty far forward for a transverse FWD motor/transaxle. I'm guessing two solutions
1) Modern traditional Honda/Acura (engine on the right, transaxle on the left been that way for the past couple decades) with the engine rotated backwards to provide a low hood line and move the Cg to the rear. This would have the driveshafts behind the engine block.
2) Less likely but put the engine block behind the driveshafts, this would move the engine to the rear. Would require a new transaxle case or perhaps reverse the layout (can't see that happening). I'd imagine Honda/Acura want the same transaxle arrangement for both the 2.0T and 3.0T to make it easier on production engineering
Either way, the hoodline is pretty low and overhang fairly big for a V6 to be mounted in front of the driveshafts and not rotated to relocated.
Never seen a pic but Honda put the C25 V6 into a 2G Prelude, apparently the packaging was very tight.
So the front wheels look pretty far forward for a transverse FWD motor/transaxle. I'm guessing two solutions
1) Modern traditional Honda/Acura (engine on the right, transaxle on the left been that way for the past couple decades) with the engine rotated backwards to provide a low hood line and move the Cg to the rear. This would have the driveshafts behind the engine block.
2) Less likely but put the engine block behind the driveshafts, this would move the engine to the rear. Would require a new transaxle case or perhaps reverse the layout (can't see that happening). I'd imagine Honda/Acura want the same transaxle arrangement for both the 2.0T and 3.0T to make it easier on production engineering
Either way, the hoodline is pretty low and overhang fairly big for a V6 to be mounted in front of the driveshafts and not rotated to relocated.
Never seen a pic but Honda put the C25 V6 into a 2G Prelude, apparently the packaging was very tight.
Last edited by 04WDPSeDaN; 08-23-2020 at 12:05 PM.
#2729
I know personally of two cases of missing 4G sales because of the lack of folding rear seat and smallish trunk....it had nothing to do with styling...
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Kinuto (08-23-2020)
#2730
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
Yes that is a big mystery to me.....everybody saying it was ugly but I got quite few compliments. When I traded my 4G SH-AWD 6MT it was sold in 3 days by the dealership....
I know personally of two cases of missing 4G sales because of the lack of folding rear seat and smallish trunk....it had nothing to do with styling...
I know personally of two cases of missing 4G sales because of the lack of folding rear seat and smallish trunk....it had nothing to do with styling...
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Kinuto (08-23-2020)
#2731
Yes that is a big mystery to me.....everybody saying it was ugly but I got quite few compliments. When I traded my 4G SH-AWD 6MT it was sold in 3 days by the dealership....
I know personally of two cases of missing 4G sales because of the lack of folding rear seat and smallish trunk....it had nothing to do with styling...
I know personally of two cases of missing 4G sales because of the lack of folding rear seat and smallish trunk....it had nothing to do with styling...
#2732
#2733
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
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Kinuto (08-23-2020)
#2734
Lol I've seen some bad ones over here in CT on the road. We have a lot of ricers out here. So you'll see them with big gold or red rims. Paint clear coat totally destroyed or a black one with swirls and armor all shine.
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04WDPSeDaN (08-23-2020)
#2735
AZ Community Team
I'm a bit baffled since you're a die hard Acura fan.. The TLX 2.0T will have nearly the exact setup as the RDX (engine with AWD setup). The layout will 100% be transverse. The V6 isn't a big engine, it's a 3.0 with a single twin scroll turbo. If you pause the video at 8:30 you see the driveshaft going to the rear diff. Drive axles are still going to the front so you already have an idea of where the engine and transmission are going to sit. The front end is longer to accommodate the front inter-cooler for the turbo and other reasons. If you pause the video at 8:00, you will see the unibody design. Look at the strut towers, bracing and firewall. The engine and transmission will not sit behind the front drive axles but more in line and forward. Attached is a picture of the RDX 2.0T drive-terrain setup. Imagine that on the new TLX. The 3.0T has the turbo sitting on the front head. Also attached is the leaked photo of the new TLX 2.0T
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title
Probably only the width gives any issue.
The 2G TLX appears to hang a shorter front wheel overhang than the previous TLX or say my 3G TL. I'm curious how that was achieved with a low hoodline and relatively short front overhang. If the front driveshafts are behind the motor then it causes the motor to be physically moved forward.
There are some mechanical engineering tricks that can be played. the 2G Prelude rotated the engine forward to lower the hoodline while the 3G Prelude rotated the engine rearward to lower the hoodline and bring the Cg to the rear more.
A V6 has more cumbersome engine bay packing than a 4 since the V increases the width of the engine as in a transverse application it means the engine bay has to be longer to accommodate the necessary ancillaries (exhaust packaging which is more difficult as now a turbo).
The V6 does help out with the height as it's reduced.
#2736
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
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#2737
04WDPSeDaN beautiful car! I can tell you put a lot of time and money into your vehicle it truly shows in the quality of your paint and engine bay. I always wanted a clean 3G TL in either White or Black but never could find one in mint condition. I seen some destroyed interiors especially the ones with tan.
This is my 4G TL. It's a FWD model Tech Package. Was hard even finding it clean out here. I've had it for nearly 4 years.
This is my 4G TL. It's a FWD model Tech Package. Was hard even finding it clean out here. I've had it for nearly 4 years.
Last edited by Kinuto; 08-23-2020 at 12:51 PM.
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04WDPSeDaN (08-23-2020),
BEAR-AvHistory (08-23-2020)
#2739
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
04WDPSeDaN beautiful car! I can tell you put a lot of time and money into your vehicle it truly shows in the quality of your paint and engine bay. I always wanted a clean 3G TL in either White or Black but never could find one in mint condition. I seen some destroyed interiors especially the ones with tan.
This is my 4G TL. It's a FWD model Tech Package. Was hard even finding it clean out here. I've had it for nearly 4 years.
This is my 4G TL. It's a FWD model Tech Package. Was hard even finding it clean out here. I've had it for nearly 4 years.
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Kinuto (08-23-2020)
#2740
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I find it funny so much dislike for the 4th Generation styling yet it's selling like crazy in the used car market now. Every car manufacturer has a hit and mess when it comes to vehicle styling. Take the Maxima for example the 5th Gen was highly loved because it was essentially an evolution of the 4th Generation and Nissan even put the VQ35DE for it's mid cycle refresh. Once the 6th Gen came out everyone would complain "Oh it's too big and boat like". But I find it funny now you even see plenty of those on the road as the 4G TL.
Lots of bitching on the BMW forums when the 3 series grew with the E90 versions.
Maybe a point on growth. My 135is convertible is about the same size as the 330 ZHP E46 convertible it replaced, both 4 seat cars. My 2 seat Z4 is bigger than the 135is. The last 4 series cars I had were bigger than the previous 5 series. That's why the current M240 & M2 are considered the successors to the E46 cars. I believe most performance car or sports sedan buyers do not think BIG unless its horsepower is a good thing or a major selling point.
Find it interesting that many of the mods here moved also on. Once lost its very hard to re-capture a customer.
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Kinuto (08-23-2020)
#2741
Actually it did. Not only did the 1G TLX outsell the 4G TL, but it had a larger market share in the entry-level luxury sedan segment. The 4G TL sold 34K the first year, the 1G TLX sold 47K. Might not seem like that much more, but in comparison the 3 series during the 4G TL's time was moving over 100K units a year. By the time the 1G TLX came around, the 3 series was selling half as many. Something something consumer shifting to crossovers. Both in terms of absolute numbers and market share, the 1G TLX beat out the 4G TL. The fact that the TLX was able to sell more than the TL even with the crossover headwinds is a sign that consumers actually preferred it more than the TL, even if enthusiasts found it to be inferior. Hard to argue with facts, but go ahead and try.
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#2742
Suzuka Master
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04WDPSeDaN (08-23-2020)
#2743
Absolutely beautiful brotha! And I REALLY appreciate the kind words
My TL is covered when It's not being used. I rarely have anyone in the car other than my wife. I was going to attempt to fix it myself when I only had a small spot sagging, but yesterday I noticed the other side was starting to sag as well. I checked oemacuraparts and a new headliner is nearly $1K. Not sure if buying a new OEM headliner is worth the cost considering it's on borrowed time til it happens again.
My TL is covered when It's not being used. I rarely have anyone in the car other than my wife. I was going to attempt to fix it myself when I only had a small spot sagging, but yesterday I noticed the other side was starting to sag as well. I checked oemacuraparts and a new headliner is nearly $1K. Not sure if buying a new OEM headliner is worth the cost considering it's on borrowed time til it happens again.
Biggest flaw in my car is the leather. No matter how much I condition it this is happening to the driver seat.
#2744
Suzuka Master
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Used to commute Spring Lake NJ to the Jersey City Grove St PATH station way back in the last century. Things might have changed over the years but the GSP & NJTP except Friday/Monday in the summer did a good imitation of the autobahn. Cops used to set up an ambush between Newark Airport & exit 11 a lot of mornings & evenings. Interesting thing it was on the lanes opposite the commute flow. Might be having a brain fart but seem to remember 80MPH.
#2745
Suzuka Master
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Took better part of a Saturday. Also replaced the cooler units while I had the covers off.
#2746
Lola
I look at the side-view 2G TLX pics and wonder how Honda/Acura engineers got so much front overhang with the 2G TLX. I strongly suspect it's a transverse mounted V6 (last longitudinal powertrain FWD Acura was the 2G Legend).
So the front wheels look pretty far forward for a transverse FWD motor/transaxle. I'm guessing two solutions
1) Modern traditional Honda/Acura (engine on the right, transaxle on the left been that way for the past couple decades) with the engine rotated backwards to provide a low hood line and move the Cg to the rear. This would have the driveshafts behind the engine block.
2) Less likely but put the engine block behind the driveshafts, this would move the engine to the rear. Would require a new transaxle case or perhaps reverse the layout (can't see that happening). I'd imagine Honda/Acura want the same transaxle arrangement for both the 2.0T and 3.0T to make it easier on production engineering
Either way, the hoodline is pretty low and overhang fairly big for a V6 to be mounted in front of the driveshafts and not rotated to relocated.
Never seen a pic but Honda put the C25 V6 into a 2G Prelude, apparently the packaging was very tight.
So the front wheels look pretty far forward for a transverse FWD motor/transaxle. I'm guessing two solutions
1) Modern traditional Honda/Acura (engine on the right, transaxle on the left been that way for the past couple decades) with the engine rotated backwards to provide a low hood line and move the Cg to the rear. This would have the driveshafts behind the engine block.
2) Less likely but put the engine block behind the driveshafts, this would move the engine to the rear. Would require a new transaxle case or perhaps reverse the layout (can't see that happening). I'd imagine Honda/Acura want the same transaxle arrangement for both the 2.0T and 3.0T to make it easier on production engineering
Either way, the hoodline is pretty low and overhang fairly big for a V6 to be mounted in front of the driveshafts and not rotated to relocated.
Never seen a pic but Honda put the C25 V6 into a 2G Prelude, apparently the packaging was very tight.
The last longitudinal FWD Acura was 2004 RL.
#2747
Wow that looks amazing! I didn't know you could just buy the seat covers instead of the entire seat assembly.
#2748
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
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You're confusing the rear prop shaft with the front driveshafts (or halfshafts as some call them). I was talking about the front driveshafts location with The RDX engine bay is probably much taller view and the K20 is probably a easy fit from a height and depth point of view.
Probably only the width gives any issue.
The 2G TLX appears to hang a shorter front wheel overhang than the previous TLX or say my 3G TL. I'm curious how that was achieved with a low hoodline and relatively short front overhang. If the front driveshafts are behind the motor then it causes the motor to be physically moved forward.
There are some mechanical engineering tricks that can be played. the 2G Prelude rotated the engine forward to lower the hoodline while the 3G Prelude rotated the engine rearward to lower the hoodline and bring the Cg to the rear more.
A V6 has more cumbersome engine bay packing than a 4 since the V increases the width of the engine as in a transverse application it means the engine bay has to be longer to accommodate the necessary ancillaries (exhaust packaging which is more difficult as now a turbo).
The V6 does help out with the height as it's reduced.
Probably only the width gives any issue.
The 2G TLX appears to hang a shorter front wheel overhang than the previous TLX or say my 3G TL. I'm curious how that was achieved with a low hoodline and relatively short front overhang. If the front driveshafts are behind the motor then it causes the motor to be physically moved forward.
There are some mechanical engineering tricks that can be played. the 2G Prelude rotated the engine forward to lower the hoodline while the 3G Prelude rotated the engine rearward to lower the hoodline and bring the Cg to the rear more.
A V6 has more cumbersome engine bay packing than a 4 since the V increases the width of the engine as in a transverse application it means the engine bay has to be longer to accommodate the necessary ancillaries (exhaust packaging which is more difficult as now a turbo).
The V6 does help out with the height as it's reduced.
#2749
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
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If your interested can look for my receipts. Covers are from a specialty house that does replacement seat covers & have quality leather factory duplicate replacements for most cars.
#2750
AZ Community Team
#2751
I definitely am! I was gonna replace my driver seat cover with the oem unit but I figure it'll tear apart again.
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BEAR-AvHistory (08-23-2020)
#2752
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
I know this 1st hand with my tuned M40i.. 418 TQ peeking at 2800 RPM and that's power to all 4 wheels. It sure pins you in the seat and the "Shit that's fast" words come out of my mouth.
Unfortunately the vinyl ... err... LEATHER that Acura uses is garbage. I redid my interior with leatherseats.com using their 100% full leather kit. Took me three days to finish everything but my interior looks incredible! Check them out and see if they have a replacement kit for your 4th gen.
NJ doesn't mess around with state troopers, especially on the damn parkway. Truth be told, I drive very conservative because of how the cops are in this state. To anyone driving through NJ, avoid driving above the speed limit during the last week of every month.
Used to commute Spring Lake NJ to the Jersey City Grove St PATH station way back in the last century. Things might have changed over the years but the GSP & NJTP except Friday/Monday in the summer did a good imitation of the autobahn. Cops used to set up an ambush between Newark Airport & exit 11 a lot of mornings & evenings. Interesting thing it was on the lanes opposite the commute flow. Might be having a brain fart but seem to remember 80MPH.
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Kinuto (08-23-2020)
#2753
The inconvenient truth
The following 4 users liked this post by dopeboy1:
#2754
Actually it did. Not only did the 1G TLX outsell the 4G TL, but it had a larger market share in the entry-level luxury sedan segment. The 4G TL sold 34K the first year, the 1G TLX sold 47K. Might not seem like that much more, but in comparison the 3 series during the 4G TL's time was moving over 100K units a year. By the time the 1G TLX came around, the 3 series was selling half as many. Something something consumer shifting to crossovers. Both in terms of absolute numbers and market share, the 1G TLX beat out the 4G TL. The fact that the TLX was able to sell more than the TL even with the crossover headwinds is a sign that consumers actually preferred it more than the TL, even if enthusiasts found it to be inferior. Hard to argue with facts, but go ahead and try.
The combined TL + TSX in the first 2 years of their re-design debut (2009-2010 in a crappier economy) moved well over 60K pieces per year...sure there was some redundancy because the TSX had a V6 version as well....so I rest my case, the TLX (at least the TL part of the TLX proposition) did not sell that much better (actually probably worse) compared to the 4G .
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 08-23-2020 at 02:46 PM.
#2755
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
You conveniently forgot (talking about arguing with facts) that the TLX was a quite cheaper car at the low end and it did aggregate 2 sedans in one with an entry level 4 banger which the TL did not have....and on the lower end 4 cylinder TLX competed with the new small el cheapo FWD derived entry level premium sedans like the A3 or the CLA where the TL did not....finally, the TLX sold in a much better economy...yes arguing with facts indeed....
the TLxTSX TL Bridges TSX
TLX
which also brings us back to my point I made earlier about the obsourne effect.
Big auto cant encroach their ICE sales as it's their bread and butter....by promising an EV.
these incremental updates to cars is just bridging or biding time....
Last edited by justnspace; 08-23-2020 at 02:39 PM.
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BEAR-AvHistory (08-23-2020)
#2756
It was indeed a very good sport sedan for its size....the fact that even in a specific scenario chosen by Acura was able to hang with a more powerful (and with a modern turbocharging system capable of full torque at the low end) and much lighter 335i is a good testament of how good it was...used TL SH-AWD 6MT for sale leave their owner very quickly
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 08-23-2020 at 02:48 PM.
#2757
Burning Brakes
Unfortunately the vinyl ... err... LEATHER that Acura uses is garbage. I redid my interior with leatherseats.com using their 100% full leather kit. Took me three days to finish everything but my interior looks incredible! Check them out and see if they have a replacement kit for your 4th gen.
But reason I'm posting ...
Those new seats look AWESOME . I would never know they were not factory. Nice materials and good job on install.
#2758
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
INCREDIBLE! I'm certain I follow him on IG. IF it's the same owner, he has by far one of the best 4th gen's i've seen. (The guy I follow is running the Rotrex Supercharger, such a beautiful TL)
Thank you very much! I appreciate the kind words. I'm still shocked that I was able to get them on as nicely as I did. For sure I won't be doing this again. My hands were beat to hell.
Yeah, that's where it finally starts to wear (on the edge/side due to enter/exit). I think heat (ie not garaged) and cleaning/conditioning (during it's whole life) plays a role also.
But reason I'm posting ...
Those new seats look AWESOME . I would never know they were not factory. Nice materials and good job on install.
But reason I'm posting ...
Those new seats look AWESOME . I would never know they were not factory. Nice materials and good job on install.
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Kinuto (08-23-2020)
#2759
AZ Community Team